The accuser must produce four witnesses. If the accuser fails to do so then he or she must be punished. The accused, in turn, will also have to produce four witnesses to support his or her denial or else he or she will have to face the music.
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
Saiful dares Anwar to swear in front of ulamaks
Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan has challenged PKR de facto leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim to solve the matter either through mubahalah (malediction) or take oath in front of ulamaks (religious figures). In an e-mail sent to TV3, which was aired during the station’s Buletin programme yesterday, Mohd Saiful said: “The truth will prevail. Falsehood will surely be exposed.”
The former aide to Anwar also described the sodomy issue as personal between them. Mohd Saiful said he does not blame the rakyat and hoped that they would be calm and accept the fact with an open heart.
“I take all criticisms with an open heart. As a victim, I have the right to get protection,” he said. He ended the e-mail by challenging Anwar to set the time and date to solve the matter through mubahalah. “Just inform me of the time and date. I am not afraid to keep my promise,” he added. - The Star
Now look at the following verses of the Quran.
The Quran, Surah 24: Light
1. A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
2. The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3. Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6. And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7. And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8. But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9. And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
So, as you can see, the Anwar-Saiful sodomy issue is actually quite easy to resolve. First of all, though, there is no such thing as carrying a Quran above your head or swearing an oath in front of people who wear turbans and robes. (If not then the Chartered Bank ‘big, strong and friendly’ jaga would not get a day’s rest). Such things do not exist in Islam and are old folks tales conjured by ignorant peasants who know no better.
The Quran has addressed this matter in surah (chapter) 9 - (Repentance, Dispensation) - verse 31. “They take their priests and their scholars to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. There is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).”
You DO NOT swear an oath in front of priests or people who happen to have a better command of Arabic than you do. You swear an oath in front of God. It would be better if you can produce four witnesses to support your allegation or denial. But if you can’t, then you swear an oath four times in lieu of these four witnesses and then a fifth oath for God to condemn your soul if you are lying.
Of course, Surah Nur (Light) addresses the issue of a man who accuses a woman of adultery. But many scholars have agreed that a man accusing another man of ‘adultery’ (either with a man or woman) can be covered under these verses because adultery is adultery whatever gender is involved.
The procedure is simple. You (the accuser) produce four witnesses or you swear an oath five times that you are telling the truth. Then the accused defends himself or herself by also producing four witnesses -- or else he or she also swears an oath five times. What happens when BOTH the accuser and the accused fail to produce four witnesses and BOTH swear an oath five times? Then the next surah will apply.
The Quran, Surah 39: The Troops, Throngs
30. Truly thou wilt die (one day), and truly they (too) will die (one day).
31. In the end will ye (all), on the Day of Judgment, settle your disputes in the presence of your Lord.
32. Who, then, doth more wrong than one who utters a lie concerning Allah, and rejects the Truth when it comes to him; is there not in Hell an abode for blasphemers?
33. And he who brings the Truth and he who confirms (and supports) it - such are the men who do right.
Yes, that’s right, then the lying party gets his or her just rewards in front of God later, after he or she dies, whichever of the two may be lying. You can’t change the rules. These are the rules as laid down by the Quran. And only the Quran applies as far as the rules of conduct for Muslims are concerned.
Let us look at another scenario. A man is caught with a woman in a hotel room and this woman is not his wife. What happens? If they are both not Muslims then nothing happens. But if one or both of them are Muslims, then they will be punished. But if they are both of ‘legal’ age and it is something between two consenting adults, how can they be punished? There is no common law that declares extramarital sex as a crime. However, it is a crime as far as Islam is concerned, so if you are a Muslim then Islamic laws will apply whereby you will certainly be punished.
The same applies in other cases where Islam regards such conduct as a crime. In an allegation of adultery, Islam is very specific as to how one must face the music. The accuser must produce four witnesses. If the accuser fails to do so then he or she must be punished. But if the accuser swears an oath five times, then he or she will escape punishment and will have to face God later to be punished if he or she is lying.
The accused, in turn, will also have to produce four witnesses to support his or her denial or else he or she will have to face the music. And if the accused also swears an oath five times, then he or she will escape punishment but will have to face God later to be punished if he or she is lying.
Okay, you might argue that since sodomy is a crime under Malaysia’s common law then common law and not Islamic law must apply. Is that so? In that case I can’t be punished for not praying five times a day or for not going to the mosque on Friday since these are not crimes under common law. I can also drink beer in public and eat and drink in the daylight hours during the month of Ramadhan since these are also not crimes under common law. I can also have sex with a woman who is not my wife since this too is not a crime under common law -- as long as she is not 15 years old.
How can I be punished for all these ‘crimes’ when common law does not make them crimes? So you see, common law cannot override the Quran whenever the Quran specifies the conduct of Muslims as well as the punishment for breaching this code of conduct. If you are a Muslim, then the Quran applies, not common law. Common law only applies whenever the Quran is silent on any issue.
In fact, oral sex is a crime under common law and you can be jailed up to a maximum of seven years if you commit this ‘crime’. But Islam does not declare oral sex a crime so Muslims are permitted to enjoy oral sex although under common law they can be sent to jail for a long time. The religious scholars are divided on the matter of anal sex and some scholars say it is permitted while others say it is not. But under common law you can be sent to jail just like in the case of oral sex. Muslims, however, are allowed to follow their scholars’ advice in either doing it or not doing it, as the case may be, and they do not care what common law has to say about it.
Yes, where the Quran is specific about something then Islamic laws will apply. Only when the Quran is silent about the subject matter will common law apply (like parking your car in a ‘no parking’ zone). There is also no sedition in Islam. In fact, the Sedition Act is un-Islamic. Islam makes it mandatory to speak out against the government and rulers and it would be a sin to keep quiet. So do not fear going to jail for a ‘crime’ of sedition because God will punish you more severely later if you keep silent for fear of going to jail when it is mandatory to speak out against transgressions and to oppose oppression. Two years jail is nothing compared to what God will do to you later.
So, back to the sodomy issue; Saiful has to swear an oath five times and so does Anwar. And if they do that then the matter ends there, at least as far as this life is concerned. Then one of them, the lying party, will have to face God later to receive his punishment. This is what God says and since both are Muslims then this, and only this, will be what will apply. Man’s laws cannot override God’s laws when you are a Muslim. That is the long and short of the whole issue.
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Comments (85)
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written by sydput, July 15, 2008 03:22:00
written by sydput, July 15, 2008 03:22:00
neither anwar or najib will end up as PM. everyone forgot about the third block, from sabah and sarawak. They can ask for PM's post if they want, from the block willing to give them. Otherwise, they will simply remain an independent third block, extracting as much as they can from either peninsular BN or opposition.
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written by Taiping60, July 13, 2008 15:23:00
written by Taiping60, July 13, 2008 15:23:00
RPT, you are right. Sometime I do not know who to believe. Since both have sweared to God that they are telling the truth, one must be dishonest. So we leave that to God and move on.
Sick of hearing that. I want to hear what the government plan to do next. As for Anwar, if you are confident of taking over the government, do that immediately otherwise focus on running those five states the opposition have won and plan for the next general election. Let the UMNO decides who they want to lead. If they choose the wrong person, they are going to loose badly in the next election. Meanwhile, if the opposition did not do a good job, they too will loose those states they won in this election.
I think we are fetchup with the politic happening in this country. We are fetchup with the non action taking place. We are fetchup with all the talks but no action. We are ashame that corruption is on the rise, we are frigthen that criminal cases have increases, we are tired of having to wait for court cases to be kept postponing. We are fetchup with Badawi continue to keep some corrupted and racist in his team.
We are unhappy with the rising cost. Many of us are struggling with our daily life. So please start governing.
Sick of hearing that. I want to hear what the government plan to do next. As for Anwar, if you are confident of taking over the government, do that immediately otherwise focus on running those five states the opposition have won and plan for the next general election. Let the UMNO decides who they want to lead. If they choose the wrong person, they are going to loose badly in the next election. Meanwhile, if the opposition did not do a good job, they too will loose those states they won in this election.
I think we are fetchup with the politic happening in this country. We are fetchup with the non action taking place. We are fetchup with all the talks but no action. We are ashame that corruption is on the rise, we are frigthen that criminal cases have increases, we are tired of having to wait for court cases to be kept postponing. We are fetchup with Badawi continue to keep some corrupted and racist in his team.
We are unhappy with the rising cost. Many of us are struggling with our daily life. So please start governing.
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written by maverich, July 11, 2008 15:53:11
written by maverich, July 11, 2008 15:53:11
a very good entry pete. but there is a mistake
an accused dont have to bring 4 witnesses.
only the accuser need to bring 4 witnesses.
actually it's impossible to bring 4 witnesses and all of them musnt be a wrongdoers... and all of them must have seen the penetration clearly. then only we can accuse the adulterer.
basically this is impossible . never been a single person was prosecuted with this method during the life of the prophet p.b.u.h
the only case was when an adulterer herself went to prophet admitting her sin..in that case , prophet didnt ask with whom she commit the adultery.
she was pregnant... prophet p.b.u.h ask her many times to consider her act..but she insisted.. then after she gave birth and fed her baby and then only the punishment was taken place.
Islamic law's main intention was not to punish people , but showing to Allah that we submitted to his command and will.
dont draw a comparison between muslim in malaysia and Islam. only 5% of muslims really following the true Islam.
it's same like how u non muslims are not following your sacred scriptures. Maybe non muslims who read their scriptures from the first page to the last page, maybe less than 1% .
an accused dont have to bring 4 witnesses.
only the accuser need to bring 4 witnesses.
actually it's impossible to bring 4 witnesses and all of them musnt be a wrongdoers... and all of them must have seen the penetration clearly. then only we can accuse the adulterer.
basically this is impossible . never been a single person was prosecuted with this method during the life of the prophet p.b.u.h
the only case was when an adulterer herself went to prophet admitting her sin..in that case , prophet didnt ask with whom she commit the adultery.
she was pregnant... prophet p.b.u.h ask her many times to consider her act..but she insisted.. then after she gave birth and fed her baby and then only the punishment was taken place.
Islamic law's main intention was not to punish people , but showing to Allah that we submitted to his command and will.
dont draw a comparison between muslim in malaysia and Islam. only 5% of muslims really following the true Islam.
it's same like how u non muslims are not following your sacred scriptures. Maybe non muslims who read their scriptures from the first page to the last page, maybe less than 1% .
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written by Tom n Jerry, July 11, 2008 05:57:18
written by Tom n Jerry, July 11, 2008 05:57:18
slimbrowser!i have good reason to be seconder to your comments!people seem to label Najib with being murderer only;they seem to forget he likes anal too;he is bisex so what;very common for a senior politician to do it;he did it on altantuya too!I bet they wil find najib*s DNA in Saiful*s arse if only they bother to do it properly! 
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written by slimbrowser, July 10, 2008 18:07:32
written by slimbrowser, July 10, 2008 18:07:32
As far as i can see it, it was not anwar who sodomized him.. IT was najib himself. He poked a million ringgit down his arse until he bled. He then made a police report that anwar did it. Najib promised that he can only smell the money once he made the police report. So he did.... and he smelled the money fresh from his arse...
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written by wiltda13, July 10, 2008 18:01:01
written by wiltda13, July 10, 2008 18:01:01
Also, if swearing on the Quran can clear a person name then Malaysia prison will definitely be empty.
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That is why there is no prison concept in Islam if I not mistakenlah. Everybody is answerable to God and not to the other sapiens in the later Day, for those who believelah, for those who are not so ignorance.
Bah! Undermining other people credibility is an thousand years age old tactics being reused over and over again.. even this story have been reused from 1998 rubbish bin.
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That is why there is no prison concept in Islam if I not mistakenlah. Everybody is answerable to God and not to the other sapiens in the later Day, for those who believelah, for those who are not so ignorance.
Bah! Undermining other people credibility is an thousand years age old tactics being reused over and over again.. even this story have been reused from 1998 rubbish bin.
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written by kawaafi, July 10, 2008 16:43:52
written by kawaafi, July 10, 2008 16:43:52
Ultraman3, please kindly read my post earlier. kawaafi (July 09, 2008 | 20:25:25). the ruling in the article only apply for consensual sex, not rape.
For the case people are discussing, it must had happened several times before 26th. Because Najib say he met the guy three days before he made police report. Report is 28th, then the meeting should be 25th. If the bad thing happened only on the 26th, why was this citizen of Malaysia so traumatized about..???
For the case people are discussing, it must had happened several times before 26th. Because Najib say he met the guy three days before he made police report. Report is 28th, then the meeting should be 25th. If the bad thing happened only on the 26th, why was this citizen of Malaysia so traumatized about..???
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written by ultraman3, July 10, 2008 15:08:50
written by ultraman3, July 10, 2008 15:08:50
Next time, after raping/sodomizing somebody, make sure you report to Pejabat Agama first before you are charged...If the victim cannot get 4 witnesses (remember 4 lelaki beriman) then they will be punished...not you. All the forensic evidence then will have no significance to the case. Banyak shiok tau itu rapist, bukan senang mau dapt 4 org saksi...beriman pulak tu. Come to think of it, kalau beriman why didn't they stop you in the first place...aiyo manyak pening la....Bala...Bala mana lu pigi?????
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written by DontPlayGod, July 10, 2008 14:07:12
written by DontPlayGod, July 10, 2008 14:07:12
According to RPK's article, if both swear 5 times that they are innocent, then there will be no more case, as far as the laws, religious or otherwise are concerened. Then the whole case/issue can just be dropped, and everyone will just go on their ways as if nothing has happened.
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written by RFernandez, July 10, 2008 13:28:24
written by RFernandez, July 10, 2008 13:28:24
What actually constitutes a "witness"? Is this "witness" someone who has seen the act of sodomy or someone who had first hand knowledge of the event soon after it happened to the victim?
By the way who in this world would have 4 witnesses lined up while in the act of sodomy or rape? Are these type of acts conducted with witnesses on hand? Where is the logic in that?
Saiful himself admitted the June 26th event wasn't the first time it happened, if so, that means he had been sodomised several times before? If yes, why did he choose to keep silent then? What triggered the June 26th event for him to lodge a report, maybe he wasn't satified enough so he decides to cry rape now?
By the way who in this world would have 4 witnesses lined up while in the act of sodomy or rape? Are these type of acts conducted with witnesses on hand? Where is the logic in that?
Saiful himself admitted the June 26th event wasn't the first time it happened, if so, that means he had been sodomised several times before? If yes, why did he choose to keep silent then? What triggered the June 26th event for him to lodge a report, maybe he wasn't satified enough so he decides to cry rape now?
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written by nana tanjung, July 10, 2008 12:43:18
written by nana tanjung, July 10, 2008 12:43:18
written by JJFoo, July 10, 2008 | 08:30:37
Common law should be paramount, other sets of law can be incorporate into the common law but musn't be allowed to supersede the common law. Otherwise our judiciary will forever be murky, waiting to be exploited by the unscrupulous.
I agree. Common law should be paramount. But just what is common law? Now, let's make laws from Quran common to everyone, and we call it common law.
Common law should be paramount, other sets of law can be incorporate into the common law but musn't be allowed to supersede the common law. Otherwise our judiciary will forever be murky, waiting to be exploited by the unscrupulous.
I agree. Common law should be paramount. But just what is common law? Now, let's make laws from Quran common to everyone, and we call it common law.
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written by Homeyasu, July 10, 2008 12:41:03
written by Homeyasu, July 10, 2008 12:41:03
Well you see.
Saiful boy is a young man of a bigger size and better stamina than Anwar;
Anwar is an old man in his 50s.
Comparing the former and the latter, if the sodomy is true, you know who'd be riding whose ass based on LOGIC.
It makes better sense if the former rides the latter; about the latter riding the former... it's just absurd. Another thing, if he is supinely sodomised, can't he fight for himself? His physique is much stronger than the latter's!
Saiful boy is dreaming big, thinking of fooling the whole nation.
Stupid is as stupid does. He made the whole diorama sound like a successful attempt of a girl in raping a guy. What a paradox.
Saiful boy is a young man of a bigger size and better stamina than Anwar;
Anwar is an old man in his 50s.
Comparing the former and the latter, if the sodomy is true, you know who'd be riding whose ass based on LOGIC.
It makes better sense if the former rides the latter; about the latter riding the former... it's just absurd. Another thing, if he is supinely sodomised, can't he fight for himself? His physique is much stronger than the latter's!
Saiful boy is dreaming big, thinking of fooling the whole nation.
Stupid is as stupid does. He made the whole diorama sound like a successful attempt of a girl in raping a guy. What a paradox.
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written by fandi, July 10, 2008 11:56:23
written by fandi, July 10, 2008 11:56:23
Bloggers Blinded by DSAI
Time to wakeup bloggers. Have you all seen the face of DSAI everytime he appears on media, looks more like a person on the loosing streak on the track, actually like a devil in disguise. Ask him to SMILE abit lah. Now look at TPM after all the accusation by RPK and the Bala SD he still composed himself. Is this what you all want a person who cannot control his temper to be PM. I really pity the wife who goes about with him., not nice to look at lah for Puan DSAI. Recently DSAI made a report to the religious depart saying that Saiful did not have 4 witnesses so how can he complain about it and therefore made a false complain. Come, come you mean to say that Saiful must have 4 witnesses to the involvement of DSAI liwat with him, then it should be gang rape report by Saiful because all the witnesses will be DSAI cronies. Besides Saiful made a police report and not a religious department report so DSAI report on Saiful do not stand ground, as Saiful did not report to the religious department..
With this event going on the Gomen have to make a stand which report comes first. The Civil report or the Religious report, it shows that the Constitution has erred. People like the muslims will be most dumb founded because certain parties will get away with this situation. So if a muslim girl get rape she cannot make a report because she has no witnesses, as this I know is happening in the middle east where the girl who got rape is being stone or put to death by the gomen for being rape. There is no womens right in the middle east. Do the gomen wants this to happened here and all the rapist can go free. The situation looks more critical then it appears, what if a muslim man rape a non muslim, which court has she to report, Civil good enough but the rapist will report to the Muslim court and get away with it. Common sense to us but when such event takes place there is no witnesses so the gomen becomes the witness by giving a fair trial whether it is a Civil or religious. Another headache for PM. Yes, maybe TPM can make a report to the religious department to counter the RPK SD as there are no 4 people to the scene. If DSAI can get way with this so too can the BN people.
Frankly speaking if Islamic Law takes over the country then everybodys wife, girlfriend and daughters are not save in this country. Do not talk how honest and pious the muslims in this country are . if they are so pious,there will be no robbery, gang rape, mat rempit, snatch thieves, UMNO cronies and even PAS because because our politics are dirty. Look at the parliament, all talking worst then primary school children. If you Bloggers keep on condemning each other like what I am also doing have we all not sin, and let us caste the first stone on each other till we all die.
Time to wakeup bloggers. Have you all seen the face of DSAI everytime he appears on media, looks more like a person on the loosing streak on the track, actually like a devil in disguise. Ask him to SMILE abit lah. Now look at TPM after all the accusation by RPK and the Bala SD he still composed himself. Is this what you all want a person who cannot control his temper to be PM. I really pity the wife who goes about with him., not nice to look at lah for Puan DSAI. Recently DSAI made a report to the religious depart saying that Saiful did not have 4 witnesses so how can he complain about it and therefore made a false complain. Come, come you mean to say that Saiful must have 4 witnesses to the involvement of DSAI liwat with him, then it should be gang rape report by Saiful because all the witnesses will be DSAI cronies. Besides Saiful made a police report and not a religious department report so DSAI report on Saiful do not stand ground, as Saiful did not report to the religious department..
With this event going on the Gomen have to make a stand which report comes first. The Civil report or the Religious report, it shows that the Constitution has erred. People like the muslims will be most dumb founded because certain parties will get away with this situation. So if a muslim girl get rape she cannot make a report because she has no witnesses, as this I know is happening in the middle east where the girl who got rape is being stone or put to death by the gomen for being rape. There is no womens right in the middle east. Do the gomen wants this to happened here and all the rapist can go free. The situation looks more critical then it appears, what if a muslim man rape a non muslim, which court has she to report, Civil good enough but the rapist will report to the Muslim court and get away with it. Common sense to us but when such event takes place there is no witnesses so the gomen becomes the witness by giving a fair trial whether it is a Civil or religious. Another headache for PM. Yes, maybe TPM can make a report to the religious department to counter the RPK SD as there are no 4 people to the scene. If DSAI can get way with this so too can the BN people.
Frankly speaking if Islamic Law takes over the country then everybodys wife, girlfriend and daughters are not save in this country. Do not talk how honest and pious the muslims in this country are . if they are so pious,there will be no robbery, gang rape, mat rempit, snatch thieves, UMNO cronies and even PAS because because our politics are dirty. Look at the parliament, all talking worst then primary school children. If you Bloggers keep on condemning each other like what I am also doing have we all not sin, and let us caste the first stone on each other till we all die.
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written by Rajen Bumiputra, July 10, 2008 10:47:54
written by Rajen Bumiputra, July 10, 2008 10:47:54
Islamic Law versus Civil Law
I respect Islamic Law but dont enforce it to Non Muslim.
Perak Religious Department dont Murtadkan Anak Hindu. Dont snatch Hindu dead body. Latest Parit Buntar Case. Dont tarnish the name of King by disturbing non muslims. King protects all race & religion.
Perak religious department should be listed as International Terrorist Department by International Community.
Rajen Bumiputra
Rakyat Sultan Azlan Shah
Hidup Melayu, Cina. India, Iban, Kadazan
Hidup Islam, Hindu, Kristian, Budha
I respect Islamic Law but dont enforce it to Non Muslim.
Perak Religious Department dont Murtadkan Anak Hindu. Dont snatch Hindu dead body. Latest Parit Buntar Case. Dont tarnish the name of King by disturbing non muslims. King protects all race & religion.
Perak religious department should be listed as International Terrorist Department by International Community.
Rajen Bumiputra
Rakyat Sultan Azlan Shah
Hidup Melayu, Cina. India, Iban, Kadazan
Hidup Islam, Hindu, Kristian, Budha
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written by Milo, July 10, 2008 10:31:00
written by Milo, July 10, 2008 10:31:00
Rentap, from the Lingam's saga, how sure are you that the earlier case was not fixed with judges involved? The fact is Anwar has children, so how did you arrived at the conclusion that his lifestyle made him gay? Unless, of course, it is your personal experience where you have children and still a gay. In that case, you should testify in court and show with your personal experience that this is likely. Further, you must be one who is age 61 and still strong enough to screw 20 guys at the back BY FORCE!
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written by Rentap, July 10, 2008 03:16:38
written by Rentap, July 10, 2008 03:16:38
You guys are pathetic! And look at what your common law said of Anwar's fist sodomy case, the two-thirds verdict: "Even though reading the appeal record, we find EVIDENCE TO CONFIRM that the appellants (Anwar dan Sukma) were involved in homosexual activities and we are more inclined to believe that the alleged incident at Tivoli Villa did happen sometime, this court, as a court of law, may only convict the appellants if the prosecution has successfully proved that the alleged offences as stated in the charge, beyond reasonable doubt".
Base on Anwar's lifestyle, he has to be gay. What "witness" else do you want? Offer him your butt.
Base on Anwar's lifestyle, he has to be gay. What "witness" else do you want? Offer him your butt.
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written by JJFoo, July 10, 2008 00:41:57
written by JJFoo, July 10, 2008 00:41:57
Common law should be paramount, other sets of law can be incorporate into the common law but must not allowed to supersede the common law. Otherwise our judiciary will forever be murky, waiting to be exploited by the unscrupulous.
All this “cursing and swearing†nonsense won’t work. We are just being lead to another circus to watch another bunch of clown performing
All this “cursing and swearing†nonsense won’t work. We are just being lead to another circus to watch another bunch of clown performing
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written by JJFoo, July 10, 2008 00:30:37
written by JJFoo, July 10, 2008 00:30:37
Common law should be paramount, other sets of law can be incorporate into the common law but musn't be allowed to supersede the common law. Otherwise our judiciary will forever be murky, waiting to be exploited by the unscrupulous.
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written by cabearth, July 09, 2008 23:13:03
written by cabearth, July 09, 2008 23:13:03
In Islamic Shariah, the concept of "Mubahalah" exists. But, it is related only to matters outside of issues touched upon by the shariah, i.e. Qazaf.
In other words, mubahalah is meant for "worldly" issues not related to Shariah.
Since,the accusation of Zina is already touched upon by Shariah, the Mubahalah is not pertinent and does not apply.
In other words, mubahalah is meant for "worldly" issues not related to Shariah.
Since,the accusation of Zina is already touched upon by Shariah, the Mubahalah is not pertinent and does not apply.
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written by cabearth, July 09, 2008 22:57:29
written by cabearth, July 09, 2008 22:57:29
We must also take AL Hadeeth becuase God says in the Quran:
16:44 ===> The Prophet is to explain the Quran.
16:44 ===> The Prophet is to explain the Quran.
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written by cabearth, July 09, 2008 22:54:20
written by cabearth, July 09, 2008 22:54:20
Actually, the laws on Qazaf is very clear in Islamic Jurisprudence. The definition and ways of conduct and punishement is mentioned clearly in Al Quran, As Sunnah, Al Ijma and Al QIyas.
So, please refer to authoritative Fiqh books for more information.
Referring to the Quran Alone is good, but it is insufficient.
So, please refer to authoritative Fiqh books for more information.
Referring to the Quran Alone is good, but it is insufficient.
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written by zackzeni, July 09, 2008 17:05:05
written by zackzeni, July 09, 2008 17:05:05
sape ye uncle si saiful ni? uncle najib ke uncle musa, tah2 uncle ezam. aku pun teringin jugak nak rasa si saiful ni. jeles aku takkan anwar je dpt. kalau dpt kongsi dgn najib atau ezam lg syok. tp aku rasa mungkin ezam ada ED kot (korang tau ke ED tu apa....). sbb tu dia jeles kat anwar.
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written by cinatmanis, July 09, 2008 16:32:21
written by cinatmanis, July 09, 2008 16:32:21
If Oral sex is a crime under common law, why is Chua Soi Lek is still walking around?
I sympathised with our own follow Malaysians, the last hope for the rakyat is also screwed up.
But he bottom line is who care about the sex life of the politicians, as long as they can deliver, and as long as they don't screw the people like UMNO, and as long as you dont murder your sex mate after you have sex with them.
Bill Clinton has the biggest sex scandle in the world, the US economy thrives under his reign and he is now still a respected ex-President. And his wife is one of the greatest woman politician.
So why cares who or how politicians have sex?
I sympathised with our own follow Malaysians, the last hope for the rakyat is also screwed up.
But he bottom line is who care about the sex life of the politicians, as long as they can deliver, and as long as they don't screw the people like UMNO, and as long as you dont murder your sex mate after you have sex with them.
Bill Clinton has the biggest sex scandle in the world, the US economy thrives under his reign and he is now still a respected ex-President. And his wife is one of the greatest woman politician.
So why cares who or how politicians have sex?
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written by peter, July 09, 2008 15:18:50
written by peter, July 09, 2008 15:18:50
Their plan really worked.
We almost got the C4 guy with the SD etc and he threw a red herring and now the whole nation has caught up in this.
Pages and pages, volumes and volumes have been written and discussed on this issue and C4 is laughing happily.
Don't let C4 win. Make C4 and his ugliest wife's issue the headline.
We almost got the C4 guy with the SD etc and he threw a red herring and now the whole nation has caught up in this.
Pages and pages, volumes and volumes have been written and discussed on this issue and C4 is laughing happily.
Don't let C4 win. Make C4 and his ugliest wife's issue the headline.
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written by nana tanjung, July 09, 2008 14:56:08
written by nana tanjung, July 09, 2008 14:56:08
tal3talk4,
you don't get witness to testify that there is no sodomy. If no sodomy, then no sodomy la...what is ther to testify? why make stupid out of yourself?
btw, precisely Islam put very high burden to proof to the extent that it can be hardly proven, because this is not something main-main. It is not only 4 witnesses, all 4 must be mukmin , not fasiq. It is because Islam is the way of life, of love and peace, that do not like to punish, unless really justified.
In a way, Islam is saying that you're really really pretty pretty sure before you punish them; that the couple must be really really kurang ajar to f**k in the middle of the public - then only the deserve the punishment.
Otherwise if it is done secretly somewhere, leave it to Allh to take care, and Allah likes people who repent.
you don't get witness to testify that there is no sodomy. If no sodomy, then no sodomy la...what is ther to testify? why make stupid out of yourself?
btw, precisely Islam put very high burden to proof to the extent that it can be hardly proven, because this is not something main-main. It is not only 4 witnesses, all 4 must be mukmin , not fasiq. It is because Islam is the way of life, of love and peace, that do not like to punish, unless really justified.
In a way, Islam is saying that you're really really pretty pretty sure before you punish them; that the couple must be really really kurang ajar to f**k in the middle of the public - then only the deserve the punishment.
Otherwise if it is done secretly somewhere, leave it to Allh to take care, and Allah likes people who repent.
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written by Hussein Lempoyan, July 09, 2008 14:50:40
Orang-orang PAS dan PKR khusnya telah terkunci otak mereka. Sayugia pula, kunci ini telah terjatuh di dalam sungai dan dilarikan arus dan hilang dari pandangan mata. Bagaimana mereka boleh buka otak mereka kerana kuncinya telah hilang. Disebabkan ini mereka menjadi taksub,,,taksub dan sangat taksub kepada ANWAR IBRAHIM. Lalu Anwar menjadi sangat KEBAL DAN KEBAL. Dia boleh hentam jubur sapa saja kecuali Yusof Qarda** Kalau Yusof Qarda** yang pergi buat laporan polis barulah mereka mungkin boleh percaya,,, itupun belum tentu lagi. Kalau si Anwar ni bantai bini merekapun mereka akan bersekongkol dengan dia. Orang Melayu sangat emosional dan kerana mereka emosionallah ORANG PUTIH Boleh jajah mereka. Dan kini mereka dibawah cengkaman ANWAR... CENGKAMAN SAIKOLGI.
written by Hussein Lempoyan, July 09, 2008 14:50:40
Orang-orang PAS dan PKR khusnya telah terkunci otak mereka. Sayugia pula, kunci ini telah terjatuh di dalam sungai dan dilarikan arus dan hilang dari pandangan mata. Bagaimana mereka boleh buka otak mereka kerana kuncinya telah hilang. Disebabkan ini mereka menjadi taksub,,,taksub dan sangat taksub kepada ANWAR IBRAHIM. Lalu Anwar menjadi sangat KEBAL DAN KEBAL. Dia boleh hentam jubur sapa saja kecuali Yusof Qarda** Kalau Yusof Qarda** yang pergi buat laporan polis barulah mereka mungkin boleh percaya,,, itupun belum tentu lagi. Kalau si Anwar ni bantai bini merekapun mereka akan bersekongkol dengan dia. Orang Melayu sangat emosional dan kerana mereka emosionallah ORANG PUTIH Boleh jajah mereka. Dan kini mereka dibawah cengkaman ANWAR... CENGKAMAN SAIKOLGI.
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written by talk3talk4, July 09, 2008 14:35:38
written by talk3talk4, July 09, 2008 14:35:38
If 4 can be a witnesesses then there would be 5 against sodomy. However, if 5 were against then surely 5 would be able to subdue a horny arseholemen.
If 4 would testiy that there were no sodomy then that block would have been poked 5 times at the least.
If all the above do not happen then that means 4 witnesses have allowed an illegal/unholy act being committed. So what is/are the punishment for non-action on these 4 witnesses?
If 4 would testiy that there were no sodomy then that block would have been poked 5 times at the least.
If all the above do not happen then that means 4 witnesses have allowed an illegal/unholy act being committed. So what is/are the punishment for non-action on these 4 witnesses?
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written by venna, July 09, 2008 14:21:11
written by venna, July 09, 2008 14:21:11
I care two hoots whether Anwar is guilty or not. There are more people up their more guilty i.e guilty of murder, guilty of treachery, guilty of ruling the country with an iron fist, guilty of meddling with justice, guilty of cheating the nation of it's wealth,guilty of every conceivable crime and I can go on and on and on and the list is endless. I am prepared to support Anwar anyways. The whole nation other than the BN foot kisses are on Anwar's side. We are not interested in all this melodrama, lies and shameful acts. Their acts are more shameful than sodomy ! They are the ones who have been sodomizing the Rakyat for these last few decades. We had enough and we are sick. We want change. Change , Change and a new future for the people by the people.
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written by nana tanjung, July 09, 2008 14:04:43
written by nana tanjung, July 09, 2008 14:04:43
kawaafi (July 09, 2008 | 20:25:25) is right. Swearing an oath, in accordance to Allah's law is applicable for cases of consensual but not legitimate sex only. This is called zina in Arab, or fornication in English.
Swearing an oath or bringing four witnesses are not applicable in cases like rape or murder or theft or robbery. These cases, in general, requires prove beyond doubt. Witness in these cases may number more or less than four, just like in current secular court of law. The only thing is that the witness must not be someone fasiq (someone who indulge in major sins or continuously living with minor sins).
The principle,in Islam, is better to acquit than to err and convict an innocent man or woman. As such, burden of proof is certainly much more stringent in Shariah court.
Swearing an oath or bringing four witnesses are not applicable in cases like rape or murder or theft or robbery. These cases, in general, requires prove beyond doubt. Witness in these cases may number more or less than four, just like in current secular court of law. The only thing is that the witness must not be someone fasiq (someone who indulge in major sins or continuously living with minor sins).
The principle,in Islam, is better to acquit than to err and convict an innocent man or woman. As such, burden of proof is certainly much more stringent in Shariah court.
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written by Chaptokam, July 09, 2008 13:22:51
written by Chaptokam, July 09, 2008 13:22:51
contd
Sedikit fakta diri dan keluarga saya. Semenjak sekolah menengah lagi, dr persatuan pelajar islam sampailah waktu bujang2, ikut perkembangan anwar dengan penuh semangat! Anwar masuk umno, aku masuk umno, anwar kena penjara, aku keluar umno.
Even, mak saya di johor tu, yang hardcore umno tupun, bole goyang pendiriannya terhadap umno kalau berdebat dengan saya dan adik-beradik saya, yang rata2 sokong pembangkang… Anwarpun ingat siapa arwah mak Saiful bekas pelajar yayasan anda…Saiful bercerita dengan rasa bangga bila dia kata dsai boleh ingat siapa arwah emaknya bila dia mention tentangnya depan anwar.
DSAI, tuan tahu, kita boleh berbohong seluruh alam tapi makhluk yang satu itu tidak boleh dibohongi iaitu diri kita sendiri.Kebenaran dari Allah itu pasti datang menjengah kita.
Hati saya sudah hancur berkecai, ditambahkan lagi, anak saudara sedarah sedaging…anak yang aruah emaknya amanahkan pada kami untuk menjaganya bila beliau “pergiâ€Â, terlibat secara langsung dalam terbongkarnya kes ini. Kami tidak beroleh apa2 keuntungan pun akibat isu ini. Tapi demi kerana membela penganiayaan yg berlaku kepada saudara kami, keputusan yang amat pahit dan berat terpaksa kami putuskan.
SEMOGA ALLAH MENYEBELAHI ORANG YANG BENAR DAN BEROLEH KEMENANGAN DUNIA DAN AKHIRAT.
Wassalam.
JM
Sedikit fakta diri dan keluarga saya. Semenjak sekolah menengah lagi, dr persatuan pelajar islam sampailah waktu bujang2, ikut perkembangan anwar dengan penuh semangat! Anwar masuk umno, aku masuk umno, anwar kena penjara, aku keluar umno.
Even, mak saya di johor tu, yang hardcore umno tupun, bole goyang pendiriannya terhadap umno kalau berdebat dengan saya dan adik-beradik saya, yang rata2 sokong pembangkang… Anwarpun ingat siapa arwah mak Saiful bekas pelajar yayasan anda…Saiful bercerita dengan rasa bangga bila dia kata dsai boleh ingat siapa arwah emaknya bila dia mention tentangnya depan anwar.
DSAI, tuan tahu, kita boleh berbohong seluruh alam tapi makhluk yang satu itu tidak boleh dibohongi iaitu diri kita sendiri.Kebenaran dari Allah itu pasti datang menjengah kita.
Hati saya sudah hancur berkecai, ditambahkan lagi, anak saudara sedarah sedaging…anak yang aruah emaknya amanahkan pada kami untuk menjaganya bila beliau “pergiâ€Â, terlibat secara langsung dalam terbongkarnya kes ini. Kami tidak beroleh apa2 keuntungan pun akibat isu ini. Tapi demi kerana membela penganiayaan yg berlaku kepada saudara kami, keputusan yang amat pahit dan berat terpaksa kami putuskan.
SEMOGA ALLAH MENYEBELAHI ORANG YANG BENAR DAN BEROLEH KEMENANGAN DUNIA DAN AKHIRAT.
Wassalam.
JM
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written by Chaptokam, July 09, 2008 13:21:57
written by Chaptokam, July 09, 2008 13:21:57
Lets see what Saiful's uncle has this to say from Jebat Must Die blog
(LETTER FROM SAIFUL’S UNCLE )
Lok7 (16:00:31) :
Jebat, i paste here my writings at anwar ibrahim blog. Hope this will clear every body doubts. Still under police investigation. I can just reveal my feelings and thought. Insyaallah, me and my family will do a PC soon. Tolong jangan beremosi, saya tahu, seluruh negara sedang menghadapi saat yang sukar ditambahi pula dengan isu yang terbaru ini. Tetapi kenyataan itu adalah selalunya ubat yang paling pahit untuk ditelan…
lok7
Jul 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Assalamu’alaikum w.b.t. dan salam sejahtera.
Saya ialah salah seorang dari ahli keluarga Saiful, bapa saudaranya sebelah emak.
Sebagai permulaan, saya bersumpah dengan nama ALLAH, bahawasanya, Saiful dengan penuh kerelaan dan kesedaran serta dalam waras telah pergi ke HKL secara bersendiri ditemani oleh seorang pakciknya. Tanpa dipaksa atau dipengaruhi oleh mana2 pihak.
Nak percaya boleh tak nak pun takper.
Kami sudah beritahu padanya what are the consequences and implication if he proceed to file this case.
Least i can say is he told us †I’ve got nothing to gain but alot to lose uncle, but in the name of ALLAH, I do this for the sake of this country, keluar dan beritahu kepada orang ramai apa yang telah berlaku. I sacrifice myself in this course.â€Â
Actually, Saiful mengaku dia hampir-hampir hendak membunuh dirinya sendiri sebab tak sanggup untuk meneruskan hidup dalam penipuan, yang mana dia tahu secara jelas dan nyata perangai busok Anwar yang sebenar adalah benar belaka sebagaimana di tohmah. Feel betrayed, malu yang amat sangat, marah, sedih bercampur baur.
Keadaannya seperti ditelan mati emak diluah mati bapak. Namun, demi kerana Allah dan negara tercinta, dia kata dia sanggup berkorban walaupun aibnya juga akan jadik tontonan dan paparan manusia. Walaupun kehilangan habuan dunia. Baginya, dia sudah menjalankan tugasnya sebagai hamba allah, dia tidak berhutang apa-apa penjelasan dengan manusia ramai.
Andaikata kalau tewas dimahkamah dunia,kami yakin dengan keyakinan haqqul hakiki bahawa di yaumil kiamah nanti kita akan dapat pengadilan dari yang maha Adil.!!
Tuan2, just imagine macamana punya hancur berkecai hati saya bila Saiful buat pengakuan ini!!! Ya Allah, tolong kejutkan aku dari mimpi ini!! Seriously, begitulah perasaan saya pada waktu itu. Mana taknya, saya selalu minta saiful jaga keselamatan dsai.
Give him some extra precautions. Musuh sedang menunggu silap shj. To me dsai is like a shining star that is going to be the greatest statesman of this nation..! Dialah yang akan menyatukan semua bangsa dalam ertikata yang sebenarnya…dan berbagai macam lagi perasaan dan harapan terhadap dsai. Tiba-tiba anak sedara yang kita dok bangga2kan nie, yang bekerja rapat dengan this towering figure nie,tengah buat nation building orang kata….dari mulut anak sedara kita sendiri menyatakan apa yang selama ini saya sangkal dan bangkang habis-habisan!!!…telah berlaku dan dilakukan kes naya nie terhadap anak sedara kita sendiri!!!!
Bagaimana untuk saya respons????
Disatu pihak anak muda yang saya kenal sedari lahir hingga dewasa. Yang kita tahu buruk dan baiknya. Apa makanan kegemarannya, sapa kawan2nya…yang biasa kita kendong dan dodoikan tatkala dari bayi lagi..!
Disatu pihak lagi satu tokoh pemimpin yang kita kagumi dan sentiasa mengikuti setiap perkembangannya, tulisan2nya, idea2nya, ceramah2 dan keberaniannya dalam menegakkan Hak rakyat dan orang2 yang tertindas?!! If you guys is in my place who would you choose??! And what is to believe???
Logically, living by today standards, Saiful orang paling bodoh sekali..! Anwar dah hampir2 menduduki kerusi PM…Saiful ialah setiausaha sulitnya. Bagi orang yang tahu bagaimana berpengaruhnya kalau jadik SS ni kepada tokoh sebesar cam Anwar nie….gila ke hapa nak gi report kes salah laku boss kau…?!
Kau buang satu peluang keemasan yang saya rasa ramai yang “mendendami†kedudukan itu. Kuasa, pengaruh, gelaran dan berbagai macam kemudahan terhampar didepan mata kau, engkau nak buang gitu ajer…hanya kerana nak buat tohmahan dan dakwaan palsu terhadap boss kau ni??! Where’s the logic behind this!!!??
Unless, perkara yang berlaku adalah benar-benar berlaku. Secara jujur saya percaya Saiful berani kerana dia benar….and we as family just advised him to go to HKL seek for forensic service and of course, in order to get that service, it is a must to make a polis report. Kami minta penyiasatan ini dilakukan secara sulit supaya pihak2 yang terlibat (Saiful dan DSAI) tidak diasak oleh public dan media. Tapi ntah macamana, cerita dah bocor…kawan saya kata diorang dapat sms lebih kurang jam 8 malam….Kami dah cemas campur geram, sebab takut kalau2 berlaku kejadian2 yang tidak diingini. Kami meminta pihak polis menjaga keselamatan Saiful agar dia tidak di apa-apakan. Iyalah, anything can happen in this time and moment.
(LETTER FROM SAIFUL’S UNCLE )
Lok7 (16:00:31) :
Jebat, i paste here my writings at anwar ibrahim blog. Hope this will clear every body doubts. Still under police investigation. I can just reveal my feelings and thought. Insyaallah, me and my family will do a PC soon. Tolong jangan beremosi, saya tahu, seluruh negara sedang menghadapi saat yang sukar ditambahi pula dengan isu yang terbaru ini. Tetapi kenyataan itu adalah selalunya ubat yang paling pahit untuk ditelan…
lok7
Jul 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Assalamu’alaikum w.b.t. dan salam sejahtera.
Saya ialah salah seorang dari ahli keluarga Saiful, bapa saudaranya sebelah emak.
Sebagai permulaan, saya bersumpah dengan nama ALLAH, bahawasanya, Saiful dengan penuh kerelaan dan kesedaran serta dalam waras telah pergi ke HKL secara bersendiri ditemani oleh seorang pakciknya. Tanpa dipaksa atau dipengaruhi oleh mana2 pihak.
Nak percaya boleh tak nak pun takper.
Kami sudah beritahu padanya what are the consequences and implication if he proceed to file this case.
Least i can say is he told us †I’ve got nothing to gain but alot to lose uncle, but in the name of ALLAH, I do this for the sake of this country, keluar dan beritahu kepada orang ramai apa yang telah berlaku. I sacrifice myself in this course.â€Â
Actually, Saiful mengaku dia hampir-hampir hendak membunuh dirinya sendiri sebab tak sanggup untuk meneruskan hidup dalam penipuan, yang mana dia tahu secara jelas dan nyata perangai busok Anwar yang sebenar adalah benar belaka sebagaimana di tohmah. Feel betrayed, malu yang amat sangat, marah, sedih bercampur baur.
Keadaannya seperti ditelan mati emak diluah mati bapak. Namun, demi kerana Allah dan negara tercinta, dia kata dia sanggup berkorban walaupun aibnya juga akan jadik tontonan dan paparan manusia. Walaupun kehilangan habuan dunia. Baginya, dia sudah menjalankan tugasnya sebagai hamba allah, dia tidak berhutang apa-apa penjelasan dengan manusia ramai.
Andaikata kalau tewas dimahkamah dunia,kami yakin dengan keyakinan haqqul hakiki bahawa di yaumil kiamah nanti kita akan dapat pengadilan dari yang maha Adil.!!
Tuan2, just imagine macamana punya hancur berkecai hati saya bila Saiful buat pengakuan ini!!! Ya Allah, tolong kejutkan aku dari mimpi ini!! Seriously, begitulah perasaan saya pada waktu itu. Mana taknya, saya selalu minta saiful jaga keselamatan dsai.
Give him some extra precautions. Musuh sedang menunggu silap shj. To me dsai is like a shining star that is going to be the greatest statesman of this nation..! Dialah yang akan menyatukan semua bangsa dalam ertikata yang sebenarnya…dan berbagai macam lagi perasaan dan harapan terhadap dsai. Tiba-tiba anak sedara yang kita dok bangga2kan nie, yang bekerja rapat dengan this towering figure nie,tengah buat nation building orang kata….dari mulut anak sedara kita sendiri menyatakan apa yang selama ini saya sangkal dan bangkang habis-habisan!!!…telah berlaku dan dilakukan kes naya nie terhadap anak sedara kita sendiri!!!!
Bagaimana untuk saya respons????
Disatu pihak anak muda yang saya kenal sedari lahir hingga dewasa. Yang kita tahu buruk dan baiknya. Apa makanan kegemarannya, sapa kawan2nya…yang biasa kita kendong dan dodoikan tatkala dari bayi lagi..!
Disatu pihak lagi satu tokoh pemimpin yang kita kagumi dan sentiasa mengikuti setiap perkembangannya, tulisan2nya, idea2nya, ceramah2 dan keberaniannya dalam menegakkan Hak rakyat dan orang2 yang tertindas?!! If you guys is in my place who would you choose??! And what is to believe???
Logically, living by today standards, Saiful orang paling bodoh sekali..! Anwar dah hampir2 menduduki kerusi PM…Saiful ialah setiausaha sulitnya. Bagi orang yang tahu bagaimana berpengaruhnya kalau jadik SS ni kepada tokoh sebesar cam Anwar nie….gila ke hapa nak gi report kes salah laku boss kau…?!
Kau buang satu peluang keemasan yang saya rasa ramai yang “mendendami†kedudukan itu. Kuasa, pengaruh, gelaran dan berbagai macam kemudahan terhampar didepan mata kau, engkau nak buang gitu ajer…hanya kerana nak buat tohmahan dan dakwaan palsu terhadap boss kau ni??! Where’s the logic behind this!!!??
Unless, perkara yang berlaku adalah benar-benar berlaku. Secara jujur saya percaya Saiful berani kerana dia benar….and we as family just advised him to go to HKL seek for forensic service and of course, in order to get that service, it is a must to make a polis report. Kami minta penyiasatan ini dilakukan secara sulit supaya pihak2 yang terlibat (Saiful dan DSAI) tidak diasak oleh public dan media. Tapi ntah macamana, cerita dah bocor…kawan saya kata diorang dapat sms lebih kurang jam 8 malam….Kami dah cemas campur geram, sebab takut kalau2 berlaku kejadian2 yang tidak diingini. Kami meminta pihak polis menjaga keselamatan Saiful agar dia tidak di apa-apakan. Iyalah, anything can happen in this time and moment.
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written by fireduck, July 09, 2008 13:01:55
written by fireduck, July 09, 2008 13:01:55
Wah, now different approach to the same problem. Swearing this and swearing that. What about the tilam? No mattress this time? Aww, we're kinda disappointed.
With all these theological discussions you guys are making the issue more hardcore ( as in 'not simple', ok? ) than it should be. Whatever it is, if 'so, do my' azz is a crime, let it all hang out in a court of law. Every pun intended, for effect.
In the meantime, do not forget that there has been a bigger more serious crime where a life was taken. Do NOT forget the Altantunya's case! And the expression of 'let the murderers burn in hell' is still very valid, until the killers are brought to justice.
With all these theological discussions you guys are making the issue more hardcore ( as in 'not simple', ok? ) than it should be. Whatever it is, if 'so, do my' azz is a crime, let it all hang out in a court of law. Every pun intended, for effect.
In the meantime, do not forget that there has been a bigger more serious crime where a life was taken. Do NOT forget the Altantunya's case! And the expression of 'let the murderers burn in hell' is still very valid, until the killers are brought to justice.
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written by neos, July 09, 2008 12:46:17
written by neos, July 09, 2008 12:46:17
Guys,
Sorry if I am slightly off topic.
Regarding the remarks by the Police that Bala is hiding somewhere in Asean countries, I would first want to ask the police / ministers, how the heck could he leave Malaysia without clearance from the Malaysia Customs? Bala does not any private Jets!
I am not sure the Opposition MP's have raised this in Parliament but they should!
Sorry if I am slightly off topic.
Regarding the remarks by the Police that Bala is hiding somewhere in Asean countries, I would first want to ask the police / ministers, how the heck could he leave Malaysia without clearance from the Malaysia Customs? Bala does not any private Jets!
I am not sure the Opposition MP's have raised this in Parliament but they should!
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written by densemy, July 09, 2008 12:33:27
written by densemy, July 09, 2008 12:33:27
I hope you realise that all this Civil v Shariah Law argument is further driving a wedge into the divisions which already exist in Malaysian Society.
The fact that there is a dual system of law in this country is best described as ludicrous... And this case is proving just how ludicrous it is
The fact that there is a dual system of law in this country is best described as ludicrous... And this case is proving just how ludicrous it is
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written by kawaafi, July 09, 2008 12:25:25
written by kawaafi, July 09, 2008 12:25:25
Salam,
The Islamic ruling RPK try to explain is very specific to the sex (consensual)crime. Not rape, and it does not apply to other crime. As some of you say, you can commit any crime and all you have to do is swear 5 times and you go scot free. That is not so in Islamic ruling.
Consensual sex, be it a crime or not is a bedroom thing or people do in seclusion, its private. The way I understand RPK explanation, the Quranic ruling is very firm in protecting that privacy. Never, in Islamic judicial history, there is such case where 4 witness were brought forward to accuse anybody of consensual sex crime and win the case. Those who had been punished were actually confesed.
The 4 witness requirement, as i understand it is to discourage people to bring it out the bedroom story to the open. Its private and let it be a private matter.
Unless if it is the spouse who had reported/committed the crime. Then there is room for the swearing as written by RPK.
I think the bad effect(musibah) of bringing out the bedroom story to the open is far worse than the crime itself. We had lost a generation for the episode 10 years ago. Many complains why the youngs today had so many social(sex) ill activities. Yet all of us were guilty (with our mainstream media) when we had talk of the episod openly, everywhare and at anytime. It had become so normal as drinking a glass of teh tarik.
I hope the story can closed as soon as possible, or we are going to lose another generation till the next episod in this stupid viciuos circle.
The Islamic ruling RPK try to explain is very specific to the sex (consensual)crime. Not rape, and it does not apply to other crime. As some of you say, you can commit any crime and all you have to do is swear 5 times and you go scot free. That is not so in Islamic ruling.
Consensual sex, be it a crime or not is a bedroom thing or people do in seclusion, its private. The way I understand RPK explanation, the Quranic ruling is very firm in protecting that privacy. Never, in Islamic judicial history, there is such case where 4 witness were brought forward to accuse anybody of consensual sex crime and win the case. Those who had been punished were actually confesed.
The 4 witness requirement, as i understand it is to discourage people to bring it out the bedroom story to the open. Its private and let it be a private matter.
Unless if it is the spouse who had reported/committed the crime. Then there is room for the swearing as written by RPK.
I think the bad effect(musibah) of bringing out the bedroom story to the open is far worse than the crime itself. We had lost a generation for the episode 10 years ago. Many complains why the youngs today had so many social(sex) ill activities. Yet all of us were guilty (with our mainstream media) when we had talk of the episod openly, everywhare and at anytime. It had become so normal as drinking a glass of teh tarik.
I hope the story can closed as soon as possible, or we are going to lose another generation till the next episod in this stupid viciuos circle.
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written by OilMan, July 09, 2008 11:42:02
written by OilMan, July 09, 2008 11:42:02
Let us look at this scenario:
Two guys did a robery and 1 is a Muslim while the other is not. Both got caught and the Muslim guy has his hands cut off while the other is jailed for a certain period of time.
Another scenario:
A Muslim was wrongly accused for robbery. His hands got cut off.
At the end of the day we will have many Muslims walking around Malaysia begging for money as their hands has been cut off. While the non Muslim ex-thieves has repented and doing well in life.
Is this what we want? Syariah law may not be applicable in Malaysia. If anyone wants to live life under syariah laws then they should migrate to Saudi Arabia.
Two guys did a robery and 1 is a Muslim while the other is not. Both got caught and the Muslim guy has his hands cut off while the other is jailed for a certain period of time.
Another scenario:
A Muslim was wrongly accused for robbery. His hands got cut off.
At the end of the day we will have many Muslims walking around Malaysia begging for money as their hands has been cut off. While the non Muslim ex-thieves has repented and doing well in life.
Is this what we want? Syariah law may not be applicable in Malaysia. If anyone wants to live life under syariah laws then they should migrate to Saudi Arabia.
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written by RCChia, July 09, 2008 11:27:36
written by RCChia, July 09, 2008 11:27:36
Wake up Malaysia. Haven't you notice that each time something explosive occurs, religion or race is stirred up? This method of distraction has been used time-over-time for as long as I can remember. What better way of creating division then by quoting the Quran and using Allah's name !!
Let's not play to the MSM or BN's game, but continue to focus on the many urgent issues on hand: Sabah, the economy, rising cost, Altantuya case, Sept 16 deadline, and many more.
Let's not play to the MSM or BN's game, but continue to focus on the many urgent issues on hand: Sabah, the economy, rising cost, Altantuya case, Sept 16 deadline, and many more.
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written by sarawakian, July 09, 2008 11:22:00
written by sarawakian, July 09, 2008 11:22:00
surely it will be far easier to produce 4 witnesses to say "I saw Anwar screwing Saiful in the backside" than otherwise. i mean, how do you find witnesses to come forward and say "I didn't see that" ??
as another poster mentioned, why drag God into this argument? desecration at its worst. besides, i don't think anyone involved in politics somewhat is God-fearing anyway. heaven/hell and the holy books mean nothing to them. the worldly pleasures have blinded their conscience.
as another poster mentioned, why drag God into this argument? desecration at its worst. besides, i don't think anyone involved in politics somewhat is God-fearing anyway. heaven/hell and the holy books mean nothing to them. the worldly pleasures have blinded their conscience.
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written by Alice, July 09, 2008 10:59:32
written by Alice, July 09, 2008 10:59:32
Awww dont drag GOD into this mess. Neither party has great integrity and doing this swearing on holy book does not sound so rite to me. We should move on to more important things and forget about sodomee. So petty and idiotic and dirty and cheap and childish. Use the coming fasting month and clean up your soulslah.
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written by Sembahyanglahkamu, July 09, 2008 10:42:42
written by Sembahyanglahkamu, July 09, 2008 10:42:42
SAIFUL WANTED THE MONEY VERY BADLY UNTIL CRY!!!
HE WILL PERFORM ANY OATHS, SUMPAH INFRONT ULAMAKS, SWEAR IN FRONT OF HIS GREAT GRAND PARENTS, GREAT GREAT GRAND PARENTS ........JUST ANYTHING LAH ....YOU NAME IT LAH.
WHAT HE WANTS IS MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.........MUST BE MONEY....
HE WILL PERFORM ANY OATHS, SUMPAH INFRONT ULAMAKS, SWEAR IN FRONT OF HIS GREAT GRAND PARENTS, GREAT GREAT GRAND PARENTS ........JUST ANYTHING LAH ....YOU NAME IT LAH.
WHAT HE WANTS IS MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.........MUST BE MONEY....
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written by clarity, July 09, 2008 09:54:11
written by clarity, July 09, 2008 09:54:11
Since UMNO is aware that they have totally lost the support of all the non-Malays this is the ideal attempt to try and win back the Malays. The non=Malays don't care on what they swear on especially the politicians. And homosexual? come on what shit is that! The's trying to sensationalise an issue because sodomy is acceptable by all non muslim countries.
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written by Xerxes, July 09, 2008 09:41:54
written by Xerxes, July 09, 2008 09:41:54
"...Mohd Saiful said he does not blame the rakyat and hoped that they would be calm and accept the fact with an open heart."
Blame the rakyat for what? I am the "rakyat" and for the life of me I do not know what and why you would even consider blaming me. I am not involved in any action to sodomise you and have no intention to.
If you are sodomised, then it is your problem to prove it in a court of law. Though, I find it very hard to believe how a strong grown up young man cannot fend off the unwanted attention of another much older man to sodomised him. At my most generous I would suspect consent if it did happen. Otherwise, it is your problem to convince the courts how this rape could take place.
Blame the rakyat for what? I am the "rakyat" and for the life of me I do not know what and why you would even consider blaming me. I am not involved in any action to sodomise you and have no intention to.
If you are sodomised, then it is your problem to prove it in a court of law. Though, I find it very hard to believe how a strong grown up young man cannot fend off the unwanted attention of another much older man to sodomised him. At my most generous I would suspect consent if it did happen. Otherwise, it is your problem to convince the courts how this rape could take place.
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written by crayon, July 09, 2008 09:22:47
written by crayon, July 09, 2008 09:22:47
all the oath and swearing thing is merely surface deep. a serious trouble-maker do not really care, or isn't afraid of religion. Religion, to these people, are merely what you write in a Borang as to not to appear out of line.
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written by Mangan, July 09, 2008 09:19:31
written by Mangan, July 09, 2008 09:19:31
Aye… according to Bala’s first SD, Mr. N likes doggie-style. How about that?!
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written by smalluncle, July 09, 2008 09:16:08
written by smalluncle, July 09, 2008 09:16:08
Wow. If Sinful can produce 4 Penuntun, it simply means its a set up. Count me in the next time OK. Me enjoy watching toooooo. Better than Tiger show.
So, Najib should do the same, swear by the Quran 5 times and case closed. Then he can get on with his life. So Simple yet they make it otherwisw.
So, Najib should do the same, swear by the Quran 5 times and case closed. Then he can get on with his life. So Simple yet they make it otherwisw.
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written by megahyper, July 09, 2008 09:00:06
written by megahyper, July 09, 2008 09:00:06
Ganbing:
"It's sad to see such a young man so bankrupt of morals."
Rightly so! What do you expect from our UMNO government? Our children have no future at all if these jokers persist in their ruling scheme. After 30 brilliants years, everything i see is heading downwards...educations, morals, economy, competitiveness, governance, corruption...you name it.
Like anwar said: we gotta save malaysia soon.
As for now, your children's choice are limited:
1) Join the morally corrupt and sodomise the country and countryman.
or 2) work hard, be religious, and get sodomised.
God is Great.
"It's sad to see such a young man so bankrupt of morals."
Rightly so! What do you expect from our UMNO government? Our children have no future at all if these jokers persist in their ruling scheme. After 30 brilliants years, everything i see is heading downwards...educations, morals, economy, competitiveness, governance, corruption...you name it.
Like anwar said: we gotta save malaysia soon.
As for now, your children's choice are limited:
1) Join the morally corrupt and sodomise the country and countryman.
or 2) work hard, be religious, and get sodomised.
God is Great.
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written by ksmaniam, July 09, 2008 08:39:00
written by ksmaniam, July 09, 2008 08:39:00
you know something which we don't and you don't want to tell us or you don't want to tell us. ok.
your point is let us get over this issue of liwat. Your arguement is that the laws applicable is syariah law and if applied the issue is over and we can continue life as if it did not happen.
agreed.
There is a lesson to be learned in this liwat issue and the subsequent issues which transpired.
POWER.
This may sound a bit of a tangent, however if you look closely, you will notice a pattern. There is too much power in the hand of the two top people who are governing Malaysia.
I suggest you look at the power wielded by the DPM as a deputy Prime Minister (where he has been given too much leeway by AAB) and the concentration of power he enjoys as a defence minister. I believe that the concentration of power in the hands of one man is too much.
This power must be seperated.
Consider this very seriously in the light of the present circumstances and happenings.
your will definitely c it.
your point is let us get over this issue of liwat. Your arguement is that the laws applicable is syariah law and if applied the issue is over and we can continue life as if it did not happen.
agreed.
There is a lesson to be learned in this liwat issue and the subsequent issues which transpired.
POWER.
This may sound a bit of a tangent, however if you look closely, you will notice a pattern. There is too much power in the hand of the two top people who are governing Malaysia.
I suggest you look at the power wielded by the DPM as a deputy Prime Minister (where he has been given too much leeway by AAB) and the concentration of power he enjoys as a defence minister. I believe that the concentration of power in the hands of one man is too much.
This power must be seperated.
Consider this very seriously in the light of the present circumstances and happenings.
your will definitely c it.
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written by mahendra5, July 09, 2008 08:30:45
written by mahendra5, July 09, 2008 08:30:45
Dear RPK - Bro.Anwar being a Muslim has the absolute right to be right under the Syariah Law. Bro.Anwar is not that stupid and he knows the tricks and trade
the Saitans are using to pin him down but this time it is not going to be that easy as the saying goes (The so-called Saitans are now in a Delima. Their false smiling and show up, as though there are clean, are all hypocrisy and full of drama. They are the ones playing .The Rakyat and the World is watching the latest developements
the Saitans are using to pin him down but this time it is not going to be that easy as the saying goes (The so-called Saitans are now in a Delima. Their false smiling and show up, as though there are clean, are all hypocrisy and full of drama. They are the ones playing .The Rakyat and the World is watching the latest developements
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written by isa affendi, July 09, 2008 08:10:55
written by isa affendi, July 09, 2008 08:10:55
Dear RPK,
Keep on writing man.. good article & info..
Keep on writing man.. good article & info..
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written by power2u, July 09, 2008 08:10:54
written by power2u, July 09, 2008 08:10:54
Pete.you r always BRILLIANT in your analysis.It is good that since Anwar n Saiful r Muslims ,they should take this case to the Syariah court.Lets see whether AG n Najis-group will uphold Islamic laws above civil laws.See,which laws they esteem higher.God or man???
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written by peace, July 09, 2008 08:06:12
written by peace, July 09, 2008 08:06:12
What if both of them also swear to GOD claiming they are innocent? Definitely one of them is lie. This sin is bigger than sodomy.
UMNOK people are good in using religion name to commit sins. Your days are numbered!
UMNOK people are good in using religion name to commit sins. Your days are numbered!
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written by Cwet Liram, July 09, 2008 08:03:06
written by Cwet Liram, July 09, 2008 08:03:06
Allah turunkan bala tak kira siapa benar atau salah....sapu bersih..kana ingat tu.....
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written by yellowkingdom, July 09, 2008 08:00:10
written by yellowkingdom, July 09, 2008 08:00:10
Dear Friends,
Times are getting from bad to worse as fear of God's laws or laws of men is no longer important.
I had the unfortunate situation of falling prey to water meter thieves when I discovered my shophouse water meter was stolen. This happened despite the fact I had added a clamp/shackle and lock as done by many. I had intended to lodge a police report but decided against it unless absolutely necessary. I made the journey from to Pasir Gudang SAJ. I was told by the officer-in-charge that I had to pay a penalty of RM70 to have another meter installed. I questioned him if there are any other charges above this amount. He stated clearly, "No, other charges." He told me that a technician will call me to notify me of the installation.
But this wasn't so, as I was harassed by an unscrupulous SAJ technician. This certainly tarnishes the image of SAJ. This is the effects of corruption breeding leeches that sucks on vulnerable customers.
My unpleasant experience is recounted below.
My question to SAJ. In the event of incomplete assembly, does a customer have to pay RM75 to add a polycarbon elbow, stop-corks, unions and boosts? Does a customer need to pay the technician RM25 to fix a boost and a pair of unions before he could install the meter directly to the existing assembly? Isn't the RM70 sufficient to cover such need for items? Isn't the technician paid RM25 by SAJ for every meter installed? Why are customers of SAJ penalised for the loss of SAJ's property?
In the morning, 3/7/08 a technician by the name of Pian (014-6102912) called to inform me that the pipe water assembly was incomplete.
He said I had to pay him RM75 to add a poly elbow, stop-corks, unions and boosts. I asked him if he could reduce the charge. He refused and told me that it was the market rate to fix them. I decided to call my own plumber to complete the assembly and will notify him when it was ready. By 5 pm in the evening, it was done and I contacted Pian, who agreed to come after 6 pm. He called me and told me that it was still incomplete and that he required RM25 to fix a boost and a pair of unions before he could install the meter. My plumber had assured me that nothing more was required and that SAJ will provide the connecting items to the water meter. I reasoned with him that I had paid RM70 to SAJ and the officer had said no further payment was required. He showed me the boost and a pair of brass unions and told me it costs RM25 just to buy them. I knew where the talk was heading and asked if he will fix them for RM10. He flatly refused and demanded RM25. I told him I will buy the items from a nearby hardware store. Failing to buy the unions except for the boost (it costs RM2), he said he would do it for RM20. By that time my tenant, Nik arrived and offered to pay Pian the RM20 to get the job done. Pian refused to accept Nik's offer of payment and instead demanded that I should pay him. The matter seemed to be getting personal. Pian then ridiculed me saying I was collecting hundreds of ringgit of rent but could not pay a measly RM20. He raised his voice and threatened not to fix the meter. He challenged me to call SAJ the next day and threatened he would charge me RM40 for the trouble of coming again. I was flabbergasted at his unwarranted threat. I appealed to Pian, to fix the meter out of the goodness of his heart as my tenant needs to use water. Nik requested Pian and he relented. Pian continued to spout cynical statements. "I hope the weather is bad tonight and both your meters will be missing, not just one. Look there is a gap, your pipe is too short. Your stop-cork is leaking. You buy cheap stuff., etc.." He was clearly suffering from sour grapes.
Nik paid him the RM20 and he readily accepted the money. When Nik invited him for a drink, Pian spitefully aimed his words and said, "Just as well to cool my raging nerves."
If my water meters were to be stolen again, I would have a great lead as to who did it. I'm told that stolen meters are sold to scrapyards for RM10 each.
Times are getting from bad to worse as fear of God's laws or laws of men is no longer important.
I had the unfortunate situation of falling prey to water meter thieves when I discovered my shophouse water meter was stolen. This happened despite the fact I had added a clamp/shackle and lock as done by many. I had intended to lodge a police report but decided against it unless absolutely necessary. I made the journey from to Pasir Gudang SAJ. I was told by the officer-in-charge that I had to pay a penalty of RM70 to have another meter installed. I questioned him if there are any other charges above this amount. He stated clearly, "No, other charges." He told me that a technician will call me to notify me of the installation.
But this wasn't so, as I was harassed by an unscrupulous SAJ technician. This certainly tarnishes the image of SAJ. This is the effects of corruption breeding leeches that sucks on vulnerable customers.
My unpleasant experience is recounted below.
My question to SAJ. In the event of incomplete assembly, does a customer have to pay RM75 to add a polycarbon elbow, stop-corks, unions and boosts? Does a customer need to pay the technician RM25 to fix a boost and a pair of unions before he could install the meter directly to the existing assembly? Isn't the RM70 sufficient to cover such need for items? Isn't the technician paid RM25 by SAJ for every meter installed? Why are customers of SAJ penalised for the loss of SAJ's property?
In the morning, 3/7/08 a technician by the name of Pian (014-6102912) called to inform me that the pipe water assembly was incomplete.
He said I had to pay him RM75 to add a poly elbow, stop-corks, unions and boosts. I asked him if he could reduce the charge. He refused and told me that it was the market rate to fix them. I decided to call my own plumber to complete the assembly and will notify him when it was ready. By 5 pm in the evening, it was done and I contacted Pian, who agreed to come after 6 pm. He called me and told me that it was still incomplete and that he required RM25 to fix a boost and a pair of unions before he could install the meter. My plumber had assured me that nothing more was required and that SAJ will provide the connecting items to the water meter. I reasoned with him that I had paid RM70 to SAJ and the officer had said no further payment was required. He showed me the boost and a pair of brass unions and told me it costs RM25 just to buy them. I knew where the talk was heading and asked if he will fix them for RM10. He flatly refused and demanded RM25. I told him I will buy the items from a nearby hardware store. Failing to buy the unions except for the boost (it costs RM2), he said he would do it for RM20. By that time my tenant, Nik arrived and offered to pay Pian the RM20 to get the job done. Pian refused to accept Nik's offer of payment and instead demanded that I should pay him. The matter seemed to be getting personal. Pian then ridiculed me saying I was collecting hundreds of ringgit of rent but could not pay a measly RM20. He raised his voice and threatened not to fix the meter. He challenged me to call SAJ the next day and threatened he would charge me RM40 for the trouble of coming again. I was flabbergasted at his unwarranted threat. I appealed to Pian, to fix the meter out of the goodness of his heart as my tenant needs to use water. Nik requested Pian and he relented. Pian continued to spout cynical statements. "I hope the weather is bad tonight and both your meters will be missing, not just one. Look there is a gap, your pipe is too short. Your stop-cork is leaking. You buy cheap stuff., etc.." He was clearly suffering from sour grapes.
Nik paid him the RM20 and he readily accepted the money. When Nik invited him for a drink, Pian spitefully aimed his words and said, "Just as well to cool my raging nerves."
If my water meters were to be stolen again, I would have a great lead as to who did it. I'm told that stolen meters are sold to scrapyards for RM10 each.
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written by Cwet Liram, July 09, 2008 07:58:00
written by Cwet Liram, July 09, 2008 07:58:00
SD yang dibuat oleh RPK pun hanyut entah kemana...
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written by BORN FREE, July 09, 2008 07:40:59
written by BORN FREE, July 09, 2008 07:40:59
TV3 will entertain all this nonsense ! When it comes to real RAKYAT
news they got no air time given! Just see how much air time allowance
they give to Pakatan Rakyat's MP when they show them on TV during Parliment
session. Cronies of BN.
news they got no air time given! Just see how much air time allowance
they give to Pakatan Rakyat's MP when they show them on TV during Parliment
session. Cronies of BN.
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written by Frankfurtguy, July 09, 2008 07:17:33
written by Frankfurtguy, July 09, 2008 07:17:33
This is a very tricky political issues.
Saiful can be sodomised by millions of man (perhaps he is a bisexual), and yet all he gets is a bad name. Perhaps not bad name at all, as he can even earns millions by writing a book to described how people s*** his backyard.
BUT, what DSAI gets is political disadvantages, and perhaps Pakatan Rakyat's chance to take over the government will be gone! Whatever the laws, religious or common laws, will jeopardise our rakyat's wish to throw BN into dustbin
One thing we should be clear is that:
"People with alternative sex preferences (even if DSAI is guilty) can be a good leader for the rakyat's benefit!! People with normal sex preferences, married twice with female human being, can be a BAD leader for family's benefits!!"
Saiful can be sodomised by millions of man (perhaps he is a bisexual), and yet all he gets is a bad name. Perhaps not bad name at all, as he can even earns millions by writing a book to described how people s*** his backyard.
BUT, what DSAI gets is political disadvantages, and perhaps Pakatan Rakyat's chance to take over the government will be gone! Whatever the laws, religious or common laws, will jeopardise our rakyat's wish to throw BN into dustbin
One thing we should be clear is that:
"People with alternative sex preferences (even if DSAI is guilty) can be a good leader for the rakyat's benefit!! People with normal sex preferences, married twice with female human being, can be a BAD leader for family's benefits!!"
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written by miwaki, July 09, 2008 07:17:07
written by miwaki, July 09, 2008 07:17:07
Saiful is definitely going to swear regardless of whether he is telling the truth or not because the satisfaction derives from monetary gains outweight the punishment he will receive from God when he dies.If Saiful is God fearing,he would never allow anybody,include Anwar to screw him from behind 8 times !
Saiful is telling lies with his eyes wide opened,how can anybody could be screwed so many times in such a short period of time ? Was he physically handicaped or in a coma when he was sodomized ?
Saiful is telling lies with his eyes wide opened,how can anybody could be screwed so many times in such a short period of time ? Was he physically handicaped or in a coma when he was sodomized ?
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written by confuseus, July 09, 2008 07:15:52
written by confuseus, July 09, 2008 07:15:52
RPK said "In fact, oral sex is a crime under common law and you can be jailed up to a maximum of seven years if you commit this ‘crime’. But Islam does not declare oral sex a crime so Muslims are permitted to enjoy oral sex although under common law they can be sent to jail for a long time. The religious scholars are divided on the matter of anal sex and some scholars say it is permitted while others say it is not. But under common law you can be sent to jail just like in the case of oral sex."
Then RPK said "So, back to the sodomy issue; Saiful has to swear an oath five times and so does Anwar. And if they do that then the matter ends there, at least as far as this life is concerned. Then one of them, the lying party, will have to face God later to receive his punishment. This is what God says and since both are Muslims then this, and only this, will be what will apply. Man’s laws cannot override God’s laws when you are a Muslim. That is the long and short of the whole issue."
Ayo RPK, dont confuse the already confused Malaysian.
Harussani is right and you are partly right. We should not use religion to resolve this simple "Mee" issue.
Whatlah you guys.... no wonder everything screwed up in malaysia but this is good because the PEKUNG is out in the open to breathe.
Then RPK said "So, back to the sodomy issue; Saiful has to swear an oath five times and so does Anwar. And if they do that then the matter ends there, at least as far as this life is concerned. Then one of them, the lying party, will have to face God later to receive his punishment. This is what God says and since both are Muslims then this, and only this, will be what will apply. Man’s laws cannot override God’s laws when you are a Muslim. That is the long and short of the whole issue."
Ayo RPK, dont confuse the already confused Malaysian.
Harussani is right and you are partly right. We should not use religion to resolve this simple "Mee" issue.
Whatlah you guys.... no wonder everything screwed up in malaysia but this is good because the PEKUNG is out in the open to breathe.
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written by ganbing, July 09, 2008 07:12:46
written by ganbing, July 09, 2008 07:12:46
Can be believe a person vile enough to accuse an innocent man of sodomy is god-fearing enough not to swear on the Koran?
Now Saifool is challenging Anwar to swear on the Koran. If Anwar does it will he drop his vile allegations? If not, what is the point?
It's sad to see such a young man so bankrupt of morals.
Now Saifool is challenging Anwar to swear on the Koran. If Anwar does it will he drop his vile allegations? If not, what is the point?
It's sad to see such a young man so bankrupt of morals.
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written by mucking fuddled, July 09, 2008 06:56:07
written by mucking fuddled, July 09, 2008 06:56:07
You guys are missing the point here, what RPK is saying is Islamic Law is a mockery, no matter what crime, no matter how heinous, just swear by ALLAH first, cos he is the ONLY ALMIGHTY JUDGE, He'll be waiting for you when the time comes, He'll tell you either you live with virgins or go to hell.....
maybe thats why there's so much crimes these days....all the other religions are taking a leave too...i presume
Before any hyper sensitive fellow attacks, let me apologise first, this is just my interpretation of RPK's article...no offence intended.
maybe thats why there's so much crimes these days....all the other religions are taking a leave too...i presume
Before any hyper sensitive fellow attacks, let me apologise first, this is just my interpretation of RPK's article...no offence intended.
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written by Vik, July 09, 2008 06:35:30
written by Vik, July 09, 2008 06:35:30
Whatever said and done, Anwar has my vote. Till now there isn't a Malaysian leader who can walk the walk and talk the talk like him. He is what we need. He is the ONLY one who can do it. He is the solitary force standing against the BN mofuggas. There are other's like our dear dear RPK, but he is the only political weapon we can use against the ruling communist party. Imagine a debate between him one one side and Bodowi and NajibC4 on the other. He'll give them a right royal verbal screwing as both the F**kers who run this country at the moment have no ability to talk. He's playing chess, and is only a couple of moves away from screwing the queen.
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written by budakindia, July 09, 2008 06:30:40
written by budakindia, July 09, 2008 06:30:40
Unfortunately the Islam, Saiful, Abdullah and the rest of the government is professing is called Islam Hadhari. Sponsired by Abdullah which allows body snatching, temple demolition, forbade the use of God for non-Muslims, dog poisoning. It's hardly a suprise that it allowed such swearing in fron of people wearing turbans.
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written by oknyua, July 09, 2008 06:29:58
written by oknyua, July 09, 2008 06:29:58
Where do the two meet; syariah or civil? Syariah must act because there is a complaint. The civil (police) must act too, because there had been a report.
It's for us readers to see there will not be a settlement, at least through the court. All previous cases, eg Lina Joy, showed the two won't meet (easier to have Quantum Theory and Theory of the Universe to merge - S. Hawkins is doing that now).
How to settle this? I don't know - it's the intergrity of both.
It's for us readers to see there will not be a settlement, at least through the court. All previous cases, eg Lina Joy, showed the two won't meet (easier to have Quantum Theory and Theory of the Universe to merge - S. Hawkins is doing that now).
How to settle this? I don't know - it's the intergrity of both.
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written by SimpleSoul, July 09, 2008 06:21:03
written by SimpleSoul, July 09, 2008 06:21:03
Looks like a tactic, If these person was to take the challenge, then immediately the evidence will pop up of no where. The DSAI will automatically loose Malay or muslim support for his agenda. In the eyes of all muslims, DSAI could be seen as lying.
DSAI dont bother! this saiful guy should be griefing on whats had happend to him, or his dream to be a pilot? suddenly his want to cabar mencabar.....
look at yr freindster tagline la saiful, clear cut ure a con artist!
DSAI dont bother! this saiful guy should be griefing on whats had happend to him, or his dream to be a pilot? suddenly his want to cabar mencabar.....
look at yr freindster tagline la saiful, clear cut ure a con artist!
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written by Ken Liew, July 09, 2008 06:04:38
written by Ken Liew, July 09, 2008 06:04:38
Saiful THE FOOL...... He has a thick face.... shameless..... Good for him!!
He has the same blood with UNMO, earn money no matter what the cost... meaning LEECH!!
He has the same blood with UNMO, earn money no matter what the cost... meaning LEECH!!
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written by skc, July 09, 2008 06:02:26
written by skc, July 09, 2008 06:02:26
Just wondering who will bring along 4 people to watch when they go to a hotel for sex ?
So this means both will have to swear 5 times and let the issue rest for now. This must be ended now, giving all of us a bad name.
So this means both will have to swear 5 times and let the issue rest for now. This must be ended now, giving all of us a bad name.
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written by Eskay Lim, July 09, 2008 05:49:25
written by Eskay Lim, July 09, 2008 05:49:25
James Loh definitely hit the nail on the head in saying that "if everyone can swear by the holy book, the prisons will all be empty".
That's why there is such rampant corruption being practised in this country, in all levels from the top Umnoputras down to the police/JPJ and right down to the lowly paid council-workers.
Everyone, from every religions doesn't care a hoot at all. They think getting rich, money through corrupt means is an O.K.
That's why there is such rampant corruption being practised in this country, in all levels from the top Umnoputras down to the police/JPJ and right down to the lowly paid council-workers.
Everyone, from every religions doesn't care a hoot at all. They think getting rich, money through corrupt means is an O.K.
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written by little dragon, July 09, 2008 05:41:45
written by little dragon, July 09, 2008 05:41:45
What happens when BOTH the accuser and the accused fail to produce four witnesses and BOTH swear an oath five times?
as a non-muslim, i must admit my knowledge of islam is very limited n i m only seeking to be enlightened here.
but in d case of d above, wudn't a haj or an umrah do d trick n absolve all their sins (assuming of course these ppl repent and promise not to repeat their sins)?
as a non-muslim, i must admit my knowledge of islam is very limited n i m only seeking to be enlightened here.
but in d case of d above, wudn't a haj or an umrah do d trick n absolve all their sins (assuming of course these ppl repent and promise not to repeat their sins)?
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written by atsanee, July 09, 2008 05:19:16
written by atsanee, July 09, 2008 05:19:16
If this was all a lie, then the accuser will have to face the music here and in the afterlife.
If the acts( on 6 occasions?)did take place then the accuser will also have to face the music because why did he allow himself to be assaulted on so many occasions?
As a casual observer,sounds as though,it was all staged managed for political expediency.
The people who managed it are also guilty of the crime. In Islam it is called 'subahat'.
If the acts( on 6 occasions?)did take place then the accuser will also have to face the music because why did he allow himself to be assaulted on so many occasions?
As a casual observer,sounds as though,it was all staged managed for political expediency.
The people who managed it are also guilty of the crime. In Islam it is called 'subahat'.
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written by FFT, July 09, 2008 05:03:03
written by FFT, July 09, 2008 05:03:03
Now here's the interesting catch!
Will there be 4 witnesses produced to link Najib and Rosmah to the Altantuya case?
If I were a betting man, I'd say you'd find at least 4 witnesses to testify against EACH of them, including the 3 already accused and sitting trial.
The trick is in making sure these witnesses do not "disappear" like Bala.
Will there be 4 witnesses produced to link Najib and Rosmah to the Altantuya case?
If I were a betting man, I'd say you'd find at least 4 witnesses to testify against EACH of them, including the 3 already accused and sitting trial.
The trick is in making sure these witnesses do not "disappear" like Bala.
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written by ben932, July 09, 2008 05:00:52
written by ben932, July 09, 2008 05:00:52
The accuser must produce four witnesses. If the accuser fails to do so then he or she must be punished. The accused, in turn, will also have to produce four witnesses to support his or her denial or else he or she will have to face the music.
If the accuser only has himself as witness then he will be punished. If the accused can somehow get 4 witnesses that they were with him at that time... then the accused is in the upper hand.
If the accuser only has himself as witness then he will be punished. If the accused can somehow get 4 witnesses that they were with him at that time... then the accused is in the upper hand.
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written by teo siew chin, July 09, 2008 04:50:16
written by teo siew chin, July 09, 2008 04:50:16
hmmmm methinks if YM RPK is not the super-hero blogger he is now, he would have made a great ulamak!
or is he indirectly ulamaking now
so, what does Islam say about sandiwara-ing?
C-4ing?
or is he indirectly ulamaking now
so, what does Islam say about sandiwara-ing?
C-4ing?
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written by James Loh, July 09, 2008 04:49:22
written by James Loh, July 09, 2008 04:49:22
The important issue we need understand that's the police needs to be impartial in investigating Najib and Anwar case. If the police can't be impartial in investigating the cases then how can we hope that BN will govern the country fairly, efficiently and affectively.
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written by semut, July 09, 2008 04:45:11
written by semut, July 09, 2008 04:45:11
what about ROSMAH and NAJIB? they are murderer mah..kasi 'gantung' la!
http://semutmalaysia.b******t.com/
http://semutmalaysia.b******t.com/
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written by BOB007, July 09, 2008 04:43:19
written by BOB007, July 09, 2008 04:43:19
mengarut la main sumpah-sumpah!!!!!! like small kids................ 
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written by PASOK, July 09, 2008 04:38:22
This is most unfair to the accused - in this case DSAI. How come the press and the police are happy to discuss all this in the public space when in fact it is just an accusation that could be made by anyone?
The police and the mainstream media have acted very unprofessionally (as usual).
written by PASOK, July 09, 2008 04:38:22
This is most unfair to the accused - in this case DSAI. How come the press and the police are happy to discuss all this in the public space when in fact it is just an accusation that could be made by anyone?
The police and the mainstream media have acted very unprofessionally (as usual).
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written by csgcsg, July 09, 2008 04:35:19
written by csgcsg, July 09, 2008 04:35:19
Come on use common sense. If someone who pokes one backside and let be poked in the same sex is already wrong no matter in what religion.
Do you think the person who goes around sodomizing young boys or girls are afraid of GOD? So yes I can call myself a Muslim but I would certainly swear 100 times in front of a Quran or bible if I am Christian simply because I won't give a damn about these 'higher' laws.
Maybe in Anwar and Saiful case, one is lying or both are lying, whatever it is we Malaysians must know the truth and stop using the media to play politics. As I mentioned again and again, there are more serious economic problems to settle, poor people to be helped instead of reading someone poke my backside or someone blew up a Mongolian.
Seriously, all politicians are dirty, its part of the game plan, but at least be dirty and do your part to help the community.
Do you think the person who goes around sodomizing young boys or girls are afraid of GOD? So yes I can call myself a Muslim but I would certainly swear 100 times in front of a Quran or bible if I am Christian simply because I won't give a damn about these 'higher' laws.
Maybe in Anwar and Saiful case, one is lying or both are lying, whatever it is we Malaysians must know the truth and stop using the media to play politics. As I mentioned again and again, there are more serious economic problems to settle, poor people to be helped instead of reading someone poke my backside or someone blew up a Mongolian.
Seriously, all politicians are dirty, its part of the game plan, but at least be dirty and do your part to help the community.
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written by MalaysianIAm, July 09, 2008 04:33:42
written by MalaysianIAm, July 09, 2008 04:33:42
can malaysians sue BN for sodomizing the rakyat emotionally? sure we can produce more than 4 witnesses.
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written by MalaysianIAm, July 09, 2008 04:32:08
written by MalaysianIAm, July 09, 2008 04:32:08
so does that mean najib will have to swear that he never was involved in the killing of altantuya? since murder is prohibited, then it should fall under Islamic laws, because Najib is a muslim (well, i don't know about how strong a muslim he is though, cause he and BN keep screwing ppl up)
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written by Rozlan, July 09, 2008 04:30:23
written by Rozlan, July 09, 2008 04:30:23
You see in DSAI 1st liwat case,DSAI did swear in the name of GOD but his accusers didnt.In the 2nd case Saiful asked DSAI to swear but he himself didnt want to do so.His email to TV3 neve mentioned he will do it.
That young guy trying to play with word but he keep on hiding away under the protection of Najib and UMNO bigwits
That young guy trying to play with word but he keep on hiding away under the protection of Najib and UMNO bigwits
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written by James Loh, July 09, 2008 04:28:32
written by James Loh, July 09, 2008 04:28:32
This is a civil case. Why are we discussing about the Islamic law? Is the syariah law supersedes the Civil law?
Also, if swearing on the Quran can clear a person name then Malaysia prison will definitely be empty.
Also, if swearing on the Quran can clear a person name then Malaysia prison will definitely be empty.
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written by cwy, July 09, 2008 04:21:44
written by cwy, July 09, 2008 04:21:44
It looks like Saiful is very confident to swear in front of the ulamaks.
He must have 4 eye witnesses arranged by those at his back.
The problem is that Anwar has no 'witnesse' simply because he never plays Saiful's backside!
He must have 4 eye witnesses arranged by those at his back.
The problem is that Anwar has no 'witnesse' simply because he never plays Saiful's backside!
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written by Anti Relon, July 09, 2008 04:17:15
written by Anti Relon, July 09, 2008 04:17:15
Hopefully both adults (Saiful and DSAI) will swear on the Quran and end the issue. Everybody will be happy and both are right. But the public will know one of them is lying. Having to appear before g.d, no worries. When you are dead there is nothing to worry about.
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