So no, the answer does not lie in God’s laws. In fact, God’s laws were actually the problem because it was so easy to manipulate the so-called Word of God and no one dared question the injustice lest they be accused of being anti-God.
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
The PAS Youth chief, Nasrudin Hassan, wants the Islamic criminal laws known as Hudud to be implemented in the country. “The existing legal system has not been successful, so there is a need for an alternative system,” he said -- and he cited the gruesome murder of businesswoman Datuk Sosilawati Lawiya and three others as an example of the failure of the current system.
The issue here is not whether I support or oppose the enactment of Hudud. The issue is the quality of the PAS Youth leader’s argument. And if this is the best that PAS can offer in terms of leadership then I do not have much hope for this party.
First of all, PAS told us that all Islamic laws, Hudud included, would not apply to non-Muslims but only to Muslims. If this is true then why quote the example of the murder of Datuk Sosilawati Lawiya? This woman was allegedly killed by Indian Hindus, not by Malay Muslims. And since Hudud applies only to Muslims then it does not matter whether Malaysia does or does not implement these Islamic laws. It would not have deterred these Indian Hindus from killing Datuk Sosilawati Lawiya because they would have been exempted from these laws anyway.
Now, if Hudud, an Islamic law, will also apply to non-Muslims, then why only Hudud? There are many Islamic laws, Hudud being just one of them. If Hudud will apply to non-Muslims as well, then all the other Islamic laws must also apply to non-Muslims.
Will non-Muslims get arrested for drinking beer? Will non-Muslims get arrested for not attending the Friday prayers in the mosque? Will non-Muslims get arrested for bonking a woman who is not his wife? And so on.
If the answer is ‘no’, if non-Muslims are exempted from all these Islamic laws, then they should also be exempted from Hudud, which is one of many Islamic laws.
Is this fair? Non-Muslims can commit serious crimes and get exemption from Islamic laws. Muslims who commit serious crimes get punished under Islamic laws. So Muslims who commit murder get dragged into the public square after Friday prayers and get beheaded. Non-Muslims relax in jail.
So, if I get arrested and charged for murder, all I need to do is to tell the court that I had in fact renounced Islam a long time ago and then I escape punishment under Hudud. Or will I instead get charged for apostasy and get put to death for leaving Islam? So, I escape the punishment for murder under Hudud but I still die for apostasy.
So you see, PAS leaders like Nasrudin Hassan need to think things through carefully before they open their mouths or else people might start forming an opinion that all PAS leaders are outdated and narrow-minded country bumpkins.
“The existing legal system has not been successful, so there is a need for an alternative system,” said Nasrudin Hassan.
Ah, so now he whacks the system and blames that for the problems facing the country. The system is not working so we abolish the system and we replace it with another more workable system.
Is it really a system failure or an implementation (human) failure? Any system, when badly or wrongly implemented, or implemented with mala fide intent, will fail. So is it a system failure or a human failure?
A Constitutional Monarchy is good. There is nothing wrong with this system. But when it is used to topple a legitimately elected state government, like what happened in Perak, then what do we do? Do we remove the Monarchy and change Malaysia into a Republic? Do we blame the system or the manipulation of the system?
Why is the present legal system bad? And how can Hudud improve things? This is where Nasrudin Hassan needs to present his case and convince Malaysians that things would improve by removing the British system in favour of an Islamic system. By just quoting the murder of Datuk Sosilawati Lawiya as an example of a failed system without further explanation on how Hudud could have prevented her murder is a stupid argument not befitting someone of the status of a PAS Youth leader.
The failure of the present system is not because it happens to be a British system and that by abolishing it in favour of an Islamic system all our problems would be solved. The failure of the present system is because the so-called Muslims managing the system are corrupt to the core.
The Muslim political leaders are corrupt. The Muslim civil servants are corrupt. The Muslim judges are corrupt. The Muslim police officers are corrupt. The Muslim MACC officers are corrupt. The Muslim public prosecutors are corrupt. The Muslim lawyers representing criminals are corrupt and they bribe judges to fix their clients’ cases.
And so on.
It is not that there are no corrupt non-Muslims as well. There are. In fact, there are as many corrupt non-Muslims as there are corrupt Muslims. But it is the Muslims and not the non-Muslims who are asking for Hudud to be implemented so I am focusing my argument on the so-called righteous Muslims who are actually very corrupt and not righteous at all.
You mean to say that every single PAS leader and member is above corruption? Come on! Some PAS people are also corrupt. As what Ibrahim Ali said: the only difference between PAS and Umno is that the PAS people utter ‘Bismillah’ before they take a bribe whilst Umno people do not.
Malaysia can abolish the present legal system. Malaysia can adopt Islamic laws such as Hudud. But if Muslim judges, police officers, MACC investigators, lawyers and public prosecutors can be bribed to rig cases then no system in the world will work.
You mean to tell me that corrupt Muslim judges, police officers, public prosecutors, lawyers, and so on, who are involved in Hudud-related cases will not take bribes? If they normally take bribes then they will take bribes notwithstanding what the occasion is. It does not matter whether the case is under Hudud laws or common laws.
Hudud is merely the punishment. But before the criminals can be punished they must first be put on trial. For a fee the AG’s Chambers can declare that the case is NFA (no further action) because of ‘lack of evidence’. For a fee the police can declare that they investigated the case and found no evidence of guilt. For a fee the judge can declare that no prima facie case had been made against the accused and discharge the accused without the defence being called.
Can Hudud solve the crime problem when cases can be rigged and criminals can bribe Muslim officials to get off?
What about if they fabricate evidence against a political enemy of those who walk in the corridors of power and an innocent man is punished? An innocent person can face punishment if the police, AG and judge say that the person is guilty even if that person is not.
Can Hudud prevent this from happening? How can Hudud ensure that the system remains free of corruption and abuse?
Nasrudin Hassan, please study history. Once upon a time the western world also implemented God’s law. But the church was so corrupt that injustice prevailed. The church eliminated the enemies of the many kings of Europe by using God’s laws as the weapon. Innocent people suffered because they opposed the church and/or the kings. In the name of God religious people killed those who did not kowtow to the powers-that-be.
We have gone down this road before. And life began to improve only when the people revolted and overthrew their corrupted leaders and got rid of God’s laws in favour of democratic republics.
So no, the answer does not lie in God’s laws. In fact, God’s laws were actually the problem because it was so easy to manipulate the so-called Word of God and no one dared question the injustice lest they be accused of being anti-God.
If the system is not working then don’t change the system. Get rid of the people who are manipulating and corrupting the system.
For that matter, the Westminster system of government also does not seem to be working. The opposition Pakatan Rakyat garners 50% of the popular vote but can’t win 50% of the seats. Barisan Nasional can still form the federal government even if they garner only 45% of the popular vote. Pakatan Rakyat would have to garner 60% of the popular vote to be able to form the federal government.
This means, under the present system, Pakatan Rakyat can never form the federal government because it is impossible for it to garner 60% of the popular vote with the election fraud, phantom voters, postal voting, gerrymandering, and so on, going on.
So what do we do? Do we abolish general elections? If we do then how do we choose our government? Or do we just let the military run the country?
What we must do is to get rid of the corrupt Muslims heading the Elections Commission (SPR). It is the Muslims in the SPR who are the problem. And no Islamic system can improve things if the Muslims who are supposed to be the implementers are corrupt.
“We have opened up our doors to everyone including our partners in Pakatan for a discussion. I don’t think that goes against the spirit of Pakatan Rakyat that aims to form a just government,” said Nasrudin Hassan.
My dear Nasrudin Hassan, justice cannot be achieved this way. Justice, which is supposed to be the foundation of Islam, can only be achieved when Muslims can understand what the word justice means. Currently they do not.
Muslims talk about justice. But there is no justice in their hearts. Their hearts are black with injustice.
This is where the problem lies.
***********************************************
PAS Youth insists on hudud for serious crimes
(The Malaysian Insider) - The PAS Youth insisted today that the enactment of Islamic criminal laws would prevent serious crimes from taking place, reopening a controversy that broke an earlier opposition pact in 2001.
The Islamic criminal laws also known as Hudud allows for amputation and death by stoning for serious crimes, and has been a sore point among Pakatan Rakyat (PR) parties which had formed Barisan Alternatif (BA) in the 1999 elections only to see it fall apart later.
The coalition however managed to reach at its inaugural convention last year when the introduction of Hudud law was dropped from the PR’s common policy framework.
“The existing legal system has not been successful, so there is a need for an alternative system,” PAS Youth chief Nasrudin Hassan told a press conference.
He cited the gruesome murder of businesswoman Datuk Sosilawati Lawiya and three others as an example of failure of the current system. Police said the four were bludgeoned and later burnt but are awaiting forensic results before charging several suspects.
“We have opened up our doors to everyone including our partners in Pakatan for a discussion.”
“I don’t think that goes against the spirit of Pakatan Rakyat that aims to form a just government,” said Nasrudin when pointed out that the proposal for Islamic law was not part of PR policy.
“Now we are asking the government to do it. If it is proven to be successful, I don’t think anyone will oppose it including Pakatan,” he added.
Kelantan was the first state to enact Islamic criminal law when PAS took over the government in 1990. The Terengganu government under PAS also did the same in 2000, but both states have not been able to enforce the law because of doubts over the legality of the enactment.
“What was enacted in Kelantan and Terengganu maybe can be introduced at the federal level,” said Nasrudin.
“It is a comprehensive law but could not be enforced because of legal obstacles,” he said.
The Barisan Nasional (BN) has proclaimed Malaysia as an Islamic nation but has not made moves to enact hudud laws, citing the country’s multi-racial mix.
Translated into Chinese at: http://ccliew.blogspot.com/2010/10/blog-post_04.html
written by OrangKaya, October 01, 2010 01:54:15
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written by Ocassey, September 26, 2010 19:17:36
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written by ibabonma, September 26, 2010 13:25:00
Islamic law says: Upon guilty of stealing, thieves’ hands will be amputated in sentence.
So why not we just amend our present ‘Mat Salleh’ law that is put into practice in Malaysia in respect of same and amputate hand of thieves when they are found guilty of stealing, irrespective of whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim instead of sending them to jail? We are talking about punishment here. The issue is why you need to mention about Islamic law, Mr Ulamak Nasrudin Hassan when you know very well that not all Malaysians are Muslims.
Before you can comment on such subject, I believe you ought to clear my mind (Muslim) first.
How to sentence, according to your ‘Islamic’ law, when I seal a pencil at a book store, steal underwear at a supermarket, steal my neighbour mango, steal ATM safe from a bank, steal the rakyat land, steal the country coffers that runs into hundred of millions ….. What to cut or what to amputate my friend? Are we prepared for all these?
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written by roggon, September 26, 2010 13:19:44
Otak kau ni macam UMNO, Bodoh betul!!!!!
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written by a guest, September 26, 2010 11:06:40
It is sad to see that religious brainwash have already damaged so many people ,
They say themselves that "without God , they are nothing" ...Actually this is their main problem ...
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written by alfchuah, September 26, 2010 09:34:11
Another similar sentiment that I've had quite some time ago and I'll say it as this issue has been brought up in France, where a full head-to-toe body suit is banned in public places. Muslim women often say that they want to behave like the female companions around Mohammed. So are they saying that their man is Mohammed? Are they literally making their man feel powerful by creating an illusion that he's god? Is this what the men or women want? Therefore I don't get the sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb inconsistency and bigotry - on one hand people are not allowed to depict Allah, but everywhere we see people trying to emulate how Mohammed lived. On this issue alone, shouldn't all Muslim be prohibited from taking pictures? Just like RPK has professed, bikin tak serupa cakap.
I think lawmakers in PAS are doomed. How can there be reconciliation between personal beliefs and a system that works for all? Why don't we charge a Muslim thief in both federal court and religious court, since this person believes in both systems (or not, since he obviously has stolen). Isn't that fair since it is what the lawmakers are implying? Religious law will never be agreed upon. What we need is a federal system that will work for everyone, even if it doesn't in some part, it will be debated in the Parliament.
Paraphrasing RPK, can we send all the bigot, non-practicing and hypocritical Muslim to hell?
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written by Alice, September 26, 2010 09:22:43
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written by betasigma, September 26, 2010 03:47:52
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written by Motherchell, September 26, 2010 01:23:58
Will the King be able to assure this child a future devoid of the judicial mafia plaguing the Nation--- the false promises he accepts from the "'rotten"" when they take their oaths? As Head of the religion and State does the King not feel the air of the voices of the fictitious litany as they stand in front of him in dark splendor ??
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written by DPG, September 26, 2010 00:09:06
And may I remind Nasruddin, under whose version of Islamic laws does PAS intend to follow? Saudi Arabia's version, Iran's version, Sudan's version, the Taliban's version, or just PAS' version. Remember, they are all quite different. In Sudan, under their syaria laws, a woman is given 40 lashes for wearing trousers, something which our government police and government department women officials are wearing. In Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive cars. I don't know what the punishment is for breaking this law. So PAS, please come out with your version of PAS' God's laws in detail, so that we can judge. Or perhaps, you will tell us we mortals are not qualified to judge (your) God's laws.
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written by panca, September 25, 2010 23:56:49
Even if one can think, one needs clarity. Otherwise without that, they might just mumbo jumbo and the whole lot goes even more confused and lost.
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written by Davy McChester, September 25, 2010 23:03:47
The above is the problem in a nutshell.
Here is something for the curious mind : http://www.centerforsecuritypo...yg/article pdfs/Shariah - The Threat to America (Team B Report) 09142010.pdf
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written by earthman, September 25, 2010 22:48:58
Our hope is upon people like you, who can see , understand and debate with an opened heart and mind. We need to pray for your safety and people like you to lead us. Hearing what the Islamic ideologists and brain dead Muslims can trigger a deadly shiver through our spines.
May God blessed you and keep you safe. Come home safely. yes Lord.
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written by syd, September 25, 2010 21:54:42
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written by Aria, September 25, 2010 21:33:37
God will punishing those who do wrong things his own way. and we humans will punish the bad people our own way in a civilized manner.
PAS should not bring religion into politics. If PAS wants to become like Perkasa then it should be kicked out of Pakatan. The PAS Youth chief, Nasrudin Hassan should be made an example off - 'that extremist will not be tolerated'.
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written by bambooman, September 25, 2010 21:23:57
The muslim civil servants are corrupt.
The muslim judges are corrupt.
The muslim police officers are corrupt.
The muslim MACC officers are corrupt.
the muslim public prosecutors are corrupt.......but the MACC Deputy Commissioner, Sutinah Sutan says that other countries are looking at Malaysia in leading the fight in corruption......hmmmm i wonder what was Sutinah doing when she prepared the statement.....(gotta check with the AG Gani Patail first )
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written by Milo, September 25, 2010 21:21:40
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written by Malaysiaputra, September 25, 2010 20:57:20
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How stupid is this ? . With the syaria in Saudi Arabia, it did not stop the Saudi King from being murdered by his kin, did it ?.
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written by Pakyeh, September 25, 2010 20:43:46
So I think Bukhari Muslim could be a Jews because they made Jewish prophets Moses and Jesus to be smarter than Muhammad and Allah..
Just cut the the hudud crap, PAS. And just try to win the election.with anti corruption and a Welfare Stae as your Manifesto.
Come you PAS Ulamas..Read and debate my article "the ying (hard) and yang(soft) of Islamic Law" at...
http:warongpakyeh.b******t.com
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written by bigben, September 25, 2010 20:31:01
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written by Catharsis, September 25, 2010 19:58:56
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written by rakyatengah, September 25, 2010 19:53:22
I stand with your ideology of truth but the more I am in line with you, I found myself is opposing almost everyone in Malaysia.
You highlighted that it is the corrupted system what need to be clean of and changed.
In my environment of daily life, It seem impossible to find someone that on your side as total. They may agree with you fight and condemning government with bad words but they them self doing all those sinful and illegal practice. Because the cancer of corruption come in so many form. In government and private it is all the same. The working in choir to keep the corrupted system alive.
They keep given excuses " Sekarang ni semua orang buat practice yang sama, you nak projek you kena hulur, kalau tak hulur macam mana nak meniaga" Some of these people actually believe in GOD and they know GOD better than me.
Government change is almost the answer to our quest to a better of Malaysia. Which later, Implementation law in a correct and better way could be achieve.
It sound funny, but we may found that, more than half of Malaysian will be in jail if we able to achieve and apply what we wanted for.
Ayoo kamon laa, yang jaga kaunter kerajaan pun amik duit kotor kaaaa. Sudah2 laa, Goverment are going to change. We are going to change for real. Stop it damn it.
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written by Better My, September 25, 2010 19:47:03
This a plea to reason things by the maestro , not Islam bashing as you or Nasruddin or Malay Ultraman would see it.
" So you see, PAS leaders like Nasrudin Hassan need to think things through carefully before they open their mouths or else people might start forming an opinion that all PAS leaders are outdated and narrow-minded country bumpkins"
You could be in government after the next GE Nasrudin. Please be responsible. Go back to the drawing board and get yourself updated to the new malaysia. We need you to be on sight to march to Putrajaya without these issues being used your poltical opponents to distort and manipulate against you.
Amputating arms and legs via Hudud laws would shock the hell of all planning to come to malaysia as tourists or investors in much greater numbers under a PR government. It is too gruesome. A new malaysia must be seen as compassionate and a sense of decency to all rakyat, despite the crimes committed. We just have to move with the times as much as possible. A proper restored running legal system will address the crimes without fear or favour and justice will be served to the guilty. Dont you worry.
We plea with you for your understanding on how we feel on on Hudud for all rakyat.
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written by pixieface, September 25, 2010 19:42:06
LOOK AT HISTORY THOUSAND OF CENTURIES BACK AND TILL THIS DAY AND AGE, RELIGION SPLIT PEOPLE AND FAMILIES UP.
IS THAT GOOD ???
JUST BELIEVE IN YOUR CHOICE OF FAITH AND LEAVE OTHERS TO THEIRS.
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written by malgal, September 25, 2010 19:06:19
laws and systems have been reconstructed to protect the criminals and punish those who speak against this. so get the re-constructors and manipulators lah nasarudin.
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written by Littlebird, September 25, 2010 19:04:06
While PAS is so happy blaming police for not patrolling the street to prevent crime. Why can't ask god to show his face to stop the anarchy?
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written by arazak, September 25, 2010 19:02:44
Pakistan and Afghanistan stoned their women accused of adultry. . ., but still, they are still a damn bloody corrupt nation (just look at their ranking in the Transperancy International's corruption perception index)! How do you reconcile this?
And do you think the UMNO leaders will give a hoot about your hudud law suggestion to them? You must be insane into asking the thieving UMNO regime to implement laws that will have their hands chopped off for stealing our money!
On they hindsight, if it was implemented, maybe they will use MCA or MIC proxies to steal the money on their behalf as the non-Muslims will not be subjected to hudud law! That still doesn't solve the problem of thieving, does it?
But what can I say. . ., all along I have always thought you as an UMNO's trojan horse talking without thinking!
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written by albert zacharias, September 25, 2010 18:35:38
Dopid or what????
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written by SamYap, September 25, 2010 18:29:47
There is a very simple way to rule a country like ours. One way is the UMNO-BN, use strong arm tactics to dull the minds of the people, especially from the time when they are in their youths, by denying them a full education - to develop an enquiring and critical mind. So we become dullards.
Similarly the same applies to Islamic administration. You are NOT supposed to question GOD's laws and if you do then you are NOT with them. Same fcuking thing that happened to the Europeans centuries ago during the feudal ages or dark ages. Now its repeating itself for the muslims.
Anyway, if you check on some of our local protestant churches, its almost the same - you don't question the pastor or else the wrath of God will be upon you.
A country's administration should and MUST always remain secular. Religion is something thats personal, between that believer and his God. Its has nothing to do with the imam or the freaking pastor.
Just imagine if Galileo had not been defiant against the church, today we'd still think the SUN is revolving around the earth.
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written by hellosunshine, September 25, 2010 18:13:59
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written by Admiral Tojo, September 25, 2010 18:02:45
Tell this to that Nasarudin fellow.
Shalom
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