This is what troubles me. I don’t care about the 12. Whether they stay or go does not concern me one bit. But if they were offered a deal and then were sold down the river then my vote is with the 12, notwithstanding what crime they committed.
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
On 28 October 2009, Dr Jeffrey Kitingan tenders his resignation as the PKR vice president while Christina Liew resigns as a supreme council member. However, they both stay on as party members.
Slightly over a week later, on 6 November 2009, Tian Chua, Michael Bong, Jeffrey, and the group now known as ‘the dirty dozen’, sit down to hammer out a peace treaty. Jeffrey and the 12 ‘renegades’ hand the delegation from Kuala Lumpur a list of demands.
About a month later, on 4 December 2009, the 12 PKR division leaders submit an application to the Registrar of Societies to form a new party called Parti Cinta Sabah.
Two days later, on 6 December 2009, the application is withdrawn after the PKR Sabah leaders make a trip to Kuala Lumpur and a behind-the-scenes negotiation reaches a settlement.
A week later, on 13 December 2009, the party rejects Jeffrey’s resignation as vice president.
Another week later, on 20 December 2009, during the party’s Sabah convention, Anwar announces that those who had submitted an application to form a new party are traitors who must be sacked. He also announces that the issue of Jeffrey’s and Christina’s resignations plus the appointment of Thamrin as the new PKR Sabah head have been amicably resolved. Christina is reinstated to her post while Jeffrey is given the task of overseeing Sabah and Sarawak.
On 10 January 2010, the Sabah issue is considered resolved.
On 7 June 2010, the party receives a complaint against the 12 who had earlier filed an application to form a new party but two days later had withdrawn that application.
On 23 July 2010, a show-cause letter is issued to the 12.
On 30 July 2010, the 12 reply to the show-cause letter.
On 24 August 2010, the party’s disciplinary committee investigates the 12 and recommends a one-year suspension.
Tomorrow, 29 August 2010, the party’s supreme council will meet to decide the fate of the 12.
**************************************
Well, this looks like a very straightforward case. 12 PKR Sabah leaders have breached party discipline and ethics by attempting to form a new party and must now be made to pay for it. There is not a more cut-and-dry case than this.
Or so at least that’s what it looks like. But it is not that cut-and-dry. There are more issues than that to be considered, including what was agreed in the behind-the-scenes negotiations.
Note one crucial point. On 4 December 2009, the 12 filed an application to form a new party. Two days later, a few top leaders from PKR Sabah went down to Kuala Lumpur for a peace negotiation and that same day the application to form a new party was withdrawn.
Now, what begs answers is why did the 12 withdraw their application to form a new party merely two days later, the same day that the Sabah leaders went down to Kuala Lumpur to negotiate a settlement?
Logic would tell us that the 12 withdrew their application to form a new party the day they sat down for negotiations because they had arrived at an amicable solution. If the negotiation had broken down then why the need to withdraw the application? And if during the negotiations it was made clear that the 12 would need to be punished then what is the purpose of withdrawing the application? Might as well they proceed with the formation of the new party if PKR is going to kick them out anyway.
This is the part that I am a bit disturbed with. Yes, the 12 have breached party discipline and ethics by filing an application to form a new party. There must be no compromise on this. They need to be axed -- no two ways about it.
However, if they had been called to the negotiation table and part of the peace treaty was that they would withdraw their application to form a new party -- which they did -- then they have been sold out.
We either fight or we talk. Let the 12 go and form their new party. Let Jeffrey and Christina resign -- to hell with the whole lot. But if we call them for negotiations and reject their resignation and ask them to withdraw the application to form a new party, then a deal is a deal.
That is what troubles me.
The argument the dissident Sabah faction offers is that Anwar Ibrahim knew that the 12 had filed an application to form a new party and, of course, that Jeffrey and Christina had tendered their resignations. But Anwar wanted them to stay on and the party even turned down their resignations and persuaded the 12 to withdraw their application to form a new party.
Was this the deal? Then why renege on the deal?
We need to know why the 12 withdrew their application to form a new party merely two days later. Who asked them to do this and what was the inducement? Was this done on their own initiative or at the behest of the ‘negotiators’?
Forget about whether the 12 did or did not breach party discipline and ethics. Of course they did. There is no doubt about that and we need not waste any time debating this issue. The most crucial, and to me, the only question is, was there a deal and has this deal now been violated?
These 12 did a u-turn merely two days later. Why did they do a u-turn?
The party’s credibility plus that of Anwar may take a plunge if this question is not satisfactorily answered. People need to know that PKR’s and Anwar’s word is as good as gold. If there are allegations that PKR or Anwar make promises but never keeps them then we are as good as dead in the water.
This is what troubles me. I don’t care about the 12. Whether they stay or go does not concern me one bit. But if they were offered a deal and then were sold down the river then my vote is with the 12, notwithstanding what crime they committed.
Another factor to not ignore is that these 12 represent the biggest ethic group in Sabah. Look at the following breakdown.
Kadazan-Dusun: 17.8%
Bajau: 13.4%
Malays: 11.5%
Murut: 3.3%
Other Bumiputras: 14.6%
Chinese (majority Hakka): 13.2%
The Sabah crisis is being made to appear like it is the Malays-Muslims versus the ‘others’. This is the second thing that troubles me. We can’t turn Sabah politics into a Malay-Muslim dominated situation. We must accept the fact that the Malays-Muslims are the minority in both Sabah and Sarawak. So, if we want the Malays-Muslims to dominate Sabah-Sarawak politics, then PKR is as good as dead.
And if we fail in Sabah and Sarawak then, as I said earlier, we can kiss Putrajaya goodbye. Now do you understand what I mean when I say that race and religion can screw up the country big-time? Sigh….
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Comments (34)
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written by zeus, September 02, 2010 11:39:53
written by zeus, September 02, 2010 11:39:53
This Malay-dominace mentality is a result of 'greed' and jealousy. Keadilan is basically a party formed from disgruntled ex-umno politicians, with the exception of very few, who are used to the ways of the NEP and the inculcation of umno indoctrination over the years. If one wants a new 'malaysia' based on impartiality and total freedom, then we must have politicians who have succeeded on their own merits and who have not served under the corrupt governments of TDM, AB and Najis.
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written by truthbespoken, August 30, 2010 03:41:43
written by truthbespoken, August 30, 2010 03:41:43
Better My, thanks for obliging. OK, your approach appears to be a hardcore strategy of political expediency where the end seems to justify the means. But wouldn't kicking out Jeffrey and his 12 result in less not more support from Sabahans for PKR and by extension PR? How does the number game tally? How will it help the overall opposition's strength and targeted march to Putrajaya if Jeffrey and his gang were to be forced out at this juncture? The outcome would be directly opposed to what your intention is. So, rather than charging one's head off backing PKR-KL at the onset, it may be more appropriate to first caution both PKR-KL and Sabah to hold their reins, not overstep respectful or agreed boundaries between comrades or slug it out in the open to the detriment of Pakatan's presence in the state. So long as the political objective remains mutually against UMNO, the benefit of the doubt should be accorded to Jeffrey to perform his task of leading PKR state's interest. Between the call for reconciliation and show of strength, reconciliation is preferred. And fortunately, that what's seemed to have happened between the concerned parties on their Sunday's meet-up.
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written by batsman, August 29, 2010 16:57:10
written by batsman, August 29, 2010 16:57:10
The crucial question whether JK and the dirty dozen are more like Hee? or more like Gobalakrishnan? still need to be answered. If they are more like Hee, then winning Sabah is just setting the stage for Perak 2.
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written by Better My, August 29, 2010 16:54:05
written by Better My, August 29, 2010 16:54:05
written by truthbespoken, August 29, 2010 13:52:50 Dear Better My, let's also hear your views on RPK' article on the subject matter. Your honesty should make interesting reading"
Do I detect some scarcasm in your tone? If there is, thats fine. if there is none, jolly good.
Ideally, we like to have the the good force/Anwar/Zaid, KS/LGE DAP/PAS people to be perfect or flawless, wont break promises when they say out loud. Practically, the breaking of promises goes with the territory in the politics worldwide. It is the scale of promises broken that we watch for and try to prevent in an open media. Some poltician have core/key promises that they will try not to break but in the heat of the election moments, many promises, and many irresponsible uncosted ones, that are blurted out - more likely they wil l be broken.
The free press and the rakyat would play the major role to reduce these kind of promises during elections and remind the parties to stick their their promises during the terms of government - otherwise, the party get constant negative write-ups which may sway the voters to other parties.
If PR or any party refuses to listern and keep on breaking their promises, then the rakyat has the final say at the polls to elect anothe party that dont appear to do the same. As we go on after PR government, brekaing promises would be one the criteria rakyat will use to judge the competence of any government but it may not be the only criteria.
re Troublespon re RPK : This is what troubles me. I don’t care about the 12. Whether they stay or go does not concern me one bit. But if they were offered a deal and then were sold down the river then my vote is with the 12, notwithstanding what crime they committed."
The idealistic natural inclination is to back the 12 from RPK comments. Yes that is the right thing to do but in t he contxt of the present situation, I say No. The question is do we want to remain high and mighty in idealism and lose the Putrajaya war, and possibility kiss goodbye the chance of alternative permanently, or do we want to get to Putrajaya at some collateral damage if required ?
If Sabah PKR has been performing well since Jan 10, this issue would have been put at the back burner for good. No one else, inclkude Anwar, would be brave enough to dismiss the Sabah PKR team. As the performance resembles a failure past months, any reason to restructure, good or bad reason, this or that reason is immaterial. it is is in-house keeping that must be done. The end results are what we want - more effective Sabah PKR that works with the central command PKR.
In any case, with increased communications from latest report and olive branches extended, there are signs that it may just be a storm in a teacup, quite fairly & quickly contained for us forge ahead in Sabah tomorrow.
Do I detect some scarcasm in your tone? If there is, thats fine. if there is none, jolly good.
Ideally, we like to have the the good force/Anwar/Zaid, KS/LGE DAP/PAS people to be perfect or flawless, wont break promises when they say out loud. Practically, the breaking of promises goes with the territory in the politics worldwide. It is the scale of promises broken that we watch for and try to prevent in an open media. Some poltician have core/key promises that they will try not to break but in the heat of the election moments, many promises, and many irresponsible uncosted ones, that are blurted out - more likely they wil l be broken.
The free press and the rakyat would play the major role to reduce these kind of promises during elections and remind the parties to stick their their promises during the terms of government - otherwise, the party get constant negative write-ups which may sway the voters to other parties.
If PR or any party refuses to listern and keep on breaking their promises, then the rakyat has the final say at the polls to elect anothe party that dont appear to do the same. As we go on after PR government, brekaing promises would be one the criteria rakyat will use to judge the competence of any government but it may not be the only criteria.
re Troublespon re RPK : This is what troubles me. I don’t care about the 12. Whether they stay or go does not concern me one bit. But if they were offered a deal and then were sold down the river then my vote is with the 12, notwithstanding what crime they committed."
The idealistic natural inclination is to back the 12 from RPK comments. Yes that is the right thing to do but in t he contxt of the present situation, I say No. The question is do we want to remain high and mighty in idealism and lose the Putrajaya war, and possibility kiss goodbye the chance of alternative permanently, or do we want to get to Putrajaya at some collateral damage if required ?
If Sabah PKR has been performing well since Jan 10, this issue would have been put at the back burner for good. No one else, inclkude Anwar, would be brave enough to dismiss the Sabah PKR team. As the performance resembles a failure past months, any reason to restructure, good or bad reason, this or that reason is immaterial. it is is in-house keeping that must be done. The end results are what we want - more effective Sabah PKR that works with the central command PKR.
In any case, with increased communications from latest report and olive branches extended, there are signs that it may just be a storm in a teacup, quite fairly & quickly contained for us forge ahead in Sabah tomorrow.
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written by truthbespoken, August 29, 2010 13:52:50
written by truthbespoken, August 29, 2010 13:52:50
Dear Better My, let's also hear your views on RPK' article on the subject matter. Your honesty should make interesting reading.
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written by Better My, August 29, 2010 08:54:01
written by Better My, August 29, 2010 08:54:01
Re FMT today, the olive branch appear to be handed to the 12 by Anwar, for them to appeal. The 12 may still play the part post this episode but the key difference is that orders from KL central must be given priority. It is NOT on that " due to PKR vice-president Jeffrey Kitingan’s dissatisfaction with the PKR central leadership’s interference in Sabah PKR’s matters, they applied to register Parti Cinta Sabah with the Registrar of Societies last Dec 09". It will be total CHAOS if every dissatisfied PR groupie does the same, form another parties or goes off-tangent from CEO plans and objectives.
written by tom73my, Should Sabah leave Malaysia and form an independent country by its own, just like Singapore? written by carlitos, August 2Sabah & Sarawak should never have joined Peninsular Malaysia in 1963 to form Malaysia"
This is NOT going to happen by laws and the barrel of the high velocity-impact M16 guns. We have gone through this and done this, in Mar 10, with self-proclaimed independence guru Hindraf working secretly with Sabah (with jeff K too in some ways) to file in independence paperwork in UK. Any talks of this nature now is going to play into the hands of the BeEnd as they can proudly say to all the malay " I told you so"
written by batsman, August 28 We need to know what JK and the dirty dozen have been doing since the deal. Were they innocently sitting on their hands waiting to be whacked or something else? Their role and activities in the crisis after the deal was struck need to be known."
Performance inthe past 8 months is the key. Their performance under Jeff K as their head there deserves a FAILrating. We had the biggest pretender Sabah PKR show there no other PR parties in other states dare to stage to attract any audience. Incompetence with failed booed circus acts, to say the least.
Cocomomo, August 28 . People of Sabah should not allow themselves to be oppressed. Let the Sabahans choose their leaders. If they prefer someone who happens to be a non Muslim so be it. Otherwise PKR you can forget Putrajaya "
Whoever is choosen must perform. A 100% choosen PR Sabah leaders is useless if they are not going to perform their critical Sabah duties for PR and "chameleon into gypsies vagabonds. A 100% chosen non-Sabah PR leaders, choosen by PR, for Sabah will do immense good to Sabah if they perform their duties impeccably, and in due time post GE under the full watchful eyes of the rakyat and free press. Somewhere in between the percentages would be more palatable not only to Sabah but to ALL other PR states as well. All these leaders execute orders from the central command station after the final decisons are made with all parties discussion.
written by truthbespoken, August 29, Any person or party who/which doesn't keep to their words or agreement is not worth the salt. "
Breaking promises by any good polticians (forget the very bad hopeless BeEnd ones) is NOT abnormal, even by developed countries standard of measurements. The poltical decisions at that time had to be made if they want to get out any predicament or achieve specific objective. Of course, some breaking of promises are not tolerated absolutely. For example, PKR break promise so that an individual like Anwar or Zaid can earn corrupt billions from it. That is a BIG no no. If PKR/PR breaks promise on some expenses promised to Sabah or any other states, during an election as they find that it is no longer feasible to so do at the time in Federal government, we just have to accept that, weigh that against all other acheivements and decide in the poll following. In Sabah case, a promise may have been broken, rightly or wrongly, but no single person in PR, Anwar, Azmin, Zaid or anyone else gain monetary value from this restructure. It is all in the name of advancement of the PKR/PR cause in Sabah and the nation to make alternative government HISTORY that we sooooo long want to see in our lifetime. is is soooo good fo the nation. This must never be denied for a ray of hope to most good rakyat today.
written by Taikohtai, August 29, 2010 06:56:35 Pakatan and their leader must focus on the big picture. But not all are willing to make sacrifices for the sake of the coalition in order to kick out BN. DSAI has made big personal sacrifices"
Agree, the sacrifices made by Anwar and others like the maestro, and so many others today, must never be questioned. For some here to criticise Anwar and asking for his head on this matter alone, and ignore the great sacrifices he has made, I hope this is spoken in temporary insanity jest or in the heat of the moment.
We must stand by PKR/DAP/PAS on the decisons they make, including some weak or wrong ones they may have made. No person/party in PR is impeccable. We have to live these percevied or actual flaws. We have decades to iron out these flaws after we get into Federal giovernment
written by tom73my, Should Sabah leave Malaysia and form an independent country by its own, just like Singapore? written by carlitos, August 2Sabah & Sarawak should never have joined Peninsular Malaysia in 1963 to form Malaysia"
This is NOT going to happen by laws and the barrel of the high velocity-impact M16 guns. We have gone through this and done this, in Mar 10, with self-proclaimed independence guru Hindraf working secretly with Sabah (with jeff K too in some ways) to file in independence paperwork in UK. Any talks of this nature now is going to play into the hands of the BeEnd as they can proudly say to all the malay " I told you so"
written by batsman, August 28 We need to know what JK and the dirty dozen have been doing since the deal. Were they innocently sitting on their hands waiting to be whacked or something else? Their role and activities in the crisis after the deal was struck need to be known."
Performance inthe past 8 months is the key. Their performance under Jeff K as their head there deserves a FAILrating. We had the biggest pretender Sabah PKR show there no other PR parties in other states dare to stage to attract any audience. Incompetence with failed booed circus acts, to say the least.
Cocomomo, August 28 . People of Sabah should not allow themselves to be oppressed. Let the Sabahans choose their leaders. If they prefer someone who happens to be a non Muslim so be it. Otherwise PKR you can forget Putrajaya "
Whoever is choosen must perform. A 100% choosen PR Sabah leaders is useless if they are not going to perform their critical Sabah duties for PR and "chameleon into gypsies vagabonds. A 100% chosen non-Sabah PR leaders, choosen by PR, for Sabah will do immense good to Sabah if they perform their duties impeccably, and in due time post GE under the full watchful eyes of the rakyat and free press. Somewhere in between the percentages would be more palatable not only to Sabah but to ALL other PR states as well. All these leaders execute orders from the central command station after the final decisons are made with all parties discussion.
written by truthbespoken, August 29, Any person or party who/which doesn't keep to their words or agreement is not worth the salt. "
Breaking promises by any good polticians (forget the very bad hopeless BeEnd ones) is NOT abnormal, even by developed countries standard of measurements. The poltical decisions at that time had to be made if they want to get out any predicament or achieve specific objective. Of course, some breaking of promises are not tolerated absolutely. For example, PKR break promise so that an individual like Anwar or Zaid can earn corrupt billions from it. That is a BIG no no. If PKR/PR breaks promise on some expenses promised to Sabah or any other states, during an election as they find that it is no longer feasible to so do at the time in Federal government, we just have to accept that, weigh that against all other acheivements and decide in the poll following. In Sabah case, a promise may have been broken, rightly or wrongly, but no single person in PR, Anwar, Azmin, Zaid or anyone else gain monetary value from this restructure. It is all in the name of advancement of the PKR/PR cause in Sabah and the nation to make alternative government HISTORY that we sooooo long want to see in our lifetime. is is soooo good fo the nation. This must never be denied for a ray of hope to most good rakyat today.
written by Taikohtai, August 29, 2010 06:56:35 Pakatan and their leader must focus on the big picture. But not all are willing to make sacrifices for the sake of the coalition in order to kick out BN. DSAI has made big personal sacrifices"
Agree, the sacrifices made by Anwar and others like the maestro, and so many others today, must never be questioned. For some here to criticise Anwar and asking for his head on this matter alone, and ignore the great sacrifices he has made, I hope this is spoken in temporary insanity jest or in the heat of the moment.
We must stand by PKR/DAP/PAS on the decisons they make, including some weak or wrong ones they may have made. No person/party in PR is impeccable. We have to live these percevied or actual flaws. We have decades to iron out these flaws after we get into Federal giovernment
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written by Taikohtai, August 29, 2010 06:56:35
written by Taikohtai, August 29, 2010 06:56:35
Looks like warlordism is very much alive in Malaysian politics. Pakatan and their leader must focus on the big picture. But not all are willing to make sacrifices for the sake of the coalition in order to kick out BN. DSAI has made big personal sacrifices. So has LKS. So too LGE, and many others. But leaders from the East tend to be the froggie types. Every time Pakatan loses focus, BN is happy while the rakyat cringes. Hopefully its just an adolescence stage Pakatan has to undergo. What gives?
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written by red1, August 29, 2010 05:58:36
written by red1, August 29, 2010 05:58:36
If RPK took this trouble to write about it, then i say Anwar already screwed us big time.
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written by Semuaok, August 29, 2010 03:45:37
written by Semuaok, August 29, 2010 03:45:37
Now that we get rid of the 12. How to we get rid of Anwar and his gang but keep Nurul
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written by carlitos, August 29, 2010 01:53:43
written by carlitos, August 29, 2010 01:53:43
Sabah & Sarawak should never have joined Peninsular Malaysia in 1963 to form Malaysia, but we cannot change the past.
At least not without a lot of bloodshed and even then things will be worse than now. So anyone thinking of that, stop dreaming of the past and move on. The chance of Sabah leaving Malaysia died when Tun Fuad Stephen and cabinet were assassinated by Malaysian government in June 1966 during the negotiation of the oil royalty. Sabah leaders didnt agree with the 5%. They got killed and Malayan colonist put in someone as CM who sold off Labuan and sign away the oil royalty, all sabahan know who that idiot is.
Sabah leaving Malaysia now will only result in war which involve Philipines, Malayan army and maybe even Indonesia.
Even if the over 1 million illegal immigrants who gained MyKad through Mahathir project IC are loyal to Sabah and fight together with the other 2 million Sabahan. It is a lost cause.
There is no way Sabah can fight against Philipines. In fact the population of Mindanao would probably migrate en massed to Sabah and instead of being discriminated by peninsular malaysian leaders, Sabahan will be swarmed by 10 million abu sayaf from mindanao.
At least not without a lot of bloodshed and even then things will be worse than now. So anyone thinking of that, stop dreaming of the past and move on. The chance of Sabah leaving Malaysia died when Tun Fuad Stephen and cabinet were assassinated by Malaysian government in June 1966 during the negotiation of the oil royalty. Sabah leaders didnt agree with the 5%. They got killed and Malayan colonist put in someone as CM who sold off Labuan and sign away the oil royalty, all sabahan know who that idiot is.
Sabah leaving Malaysia now will only result in war which involve Philipines, Malayan army and maybe even Indonesia.
Even if the over 1 million illegal immigrants who gained MyKad through Mahathir project IC are loyal to Sabah and fight together with the other 2 million Sabahan. It is a lost cause.
There is no way Sabah can fight against Philipines. In fact the population of Mindanao would probably migrate en massed to Sabah and instead of being discriminated by peninsular malaysian leaders, Sabahan will be swarmed by 10 million abu sayaf from mindanao.
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written by cheekhiaw, August 29, 2010 01:48:17
written by cheekhiaw, August 29, 2010 01:48:17
But if they were offered a deal and then were sold down the river then my vote is with the 12, notwithstanding what crime they committed.
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So deals cut by a party of ex-thieves, liars etc. stand or not?
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So deals cut by a party of ex-thieves, liars etc. stand or not?
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written by carlitos, August 29, 2010 01:25:07
written by carlitos, August 29, 2010 01:25:07
Before UMNO come into Sabah
Kadazan-Dusun-Murut Made up of 60% Sabah Population, there is maybe 5% Malay-Brunei, 15% Bajau, 10 % Chinese
If the statistics provided is accurate, Parti Cinta Sabah is nothing. Better form Parti PTI Sabah, then again SAPP probably stands for Saya Anak PTI Party since their leader won last time with the help of Pulau Gaya 5,000 PTIs.
Kadazan-Dusun: 17.8%
Bajau: 13.4%
Malays: 11.5%
Murut: 3.3%
Other Bumiputras: 14.6%
Chinese (majority Hakka): 13.2%
Kadazan-Dusun-Murut Made up of 60% Sabah Population, there is maybe 5% Malay-Brunei, 15% Bajau, 10 % Chinese
If the statistics provided is accurate, Parti Cinta Sabah is nothing. Better form Parti PTI Sabah, then again SAPP probably stands for Saya Anak PTI Party since their leader won last time with the help of Pulau Gaya 5,000 PTIs.
Kadazan-Dusun: 17.8%
Bajau: 13.4%
Malays: 11.5%
Murut: 3.3%
Other Bumiputras: 14.6%
Chinese (majority Hakka): 13.2%
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written by truthbespoken, August 29, 2010 00:58:25
written by truthbespoken, August 29, 2010 00:58:25
Any person or party who/which doesn't keep to their words or agreement is not with the salt. Situations without trust and sincerity cannot last long nor will it be respected by others; like in the case of the agreement between UMNO and Chin Peng whereby UMNO openly reneged on the same and disallowed the old man to return. It left a bad taste in the mouth. Hegemonic UMNO cannot be trusted with political agreements. Has PKR and/or Anwar now embarked on the same hegemonic and untrustworthy boat as UMNO's in Sabah's current situation?.. even when it is inappropriate or premature to do so? If so, it's PKR's folly. In the months ahead, one can expect less political support from Sabahans for the party, not more.
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written by brotherhood, August 29, 2010 00:07:49
written by brotherhood, August 29, 2010 00:07:49
Datuk Jeffery kitinggan telah resign dan bagus lagi bawa KATAK China Kong hon ming dan suruh dua Katak balik masuk PARTI BERSATU SABAH Lebih baik.
Supaya PAKATAN Lebeh CERAH Di SABAH.
Harap dato seri ANWAR pakai org yang jujur atau orang baru jadi calon dengan party.
Hidup PAKATAN untuk Sabahan dan kasih jatuh Umno dan BN.
Supaya PAKATAN Lebeh CERAH Di SABAH.
Harap dato seri ANWAR pakai org yang jujur atau orang baru jadi calon dengan party.
Hidup PAKATAN untuk Sabahan dan kasih jatuh Umno dan BN.
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written by mafiawar, August 29, 2010 00:04:26
written by mafiawar, August 29, 2010 00:04:26
Anwar, you are carrying a lot of "baggage" with you. If PR really want to SECURE Putrajaya, I suggest that PR shall work closely with SAPP [local party]. Most SABAHAN does not believe in West Malaysia political party. Everyone SABAHAN is concern to we are going to create another UMNO.
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written by onnetline, August 29, 2010 00:02:36
written by onnetline, August 29, 2010 00:02:36
RPK,
Yes indeed, we can't have a conniving leader who carries little or no integrity !
Yes indeed, we can't have a conniving leader who carries little or no integrity !
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written by Sabahfan, August 29, 2010 00:02:19
written by Sabahfan, August 29, 2010 00:02:19
As far as I am concerned.. these semenanjung people have been treating Sabahans as BODOH since MalaysiaL was formed....
So I agree fully with Tom73, we should have left Malaysia on the same time as Singapore did left... We would have been far better off, just like singapore and brunei rahter than be colonised by the EGOISTIC semenanjng people.
CIGMA group, start the petition in England again, find a way for Sabah and Sarawak to be independent states... far as I am concerned I am fukking sick of semenanjung colonialist..
So I agree fully with Tom73, we should have left Malaysia on the same time as Singapore did left... We would have been far better off, just like singapore and brunei rahter than be colonised by the EGOISTIC semenanjng people.
CIGMA group, start the petition in England again, find a way for Sabah and Sarawak to be independent states... far as I am concerned I am fukking sick of semenanjung colonialist..
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written by cocomomo, August 28, 2010 23:59:41
written by cocomomo, August 28, 2010 23:59:41
It is time that PKR realise that they will not succeed if they try to be another UMNO. Be fair to the peolple of Sabah. People of Sabah should not allow themselves to be oppressed. Let the Sabahans choose their leaders. If they prefer someone who happens to be a non Muslim so be it. Otherwise PKR you can forget Putrajaya .
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written by tom73my, August 28, 2010 23:46:30
written by tom73my, August 28, 2010 23:46:30
My take on Sabah: Should Sabah leave Malaysia and form an independent country by its own, just like Singapore? +=Yea, -=Nay.
What's your take?
What's your take?
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written by batsman, August 28, 2010 22:29:21
written by batsman, August 28, 2010 22:29:21
There is one more consideration to be taken into account. We need to know what JK and the dirty dozen have been doing since the deal. Were they innocently sitting on their hands waiting to be whacked or something else? Their role and activities in the crisis after the deal was struck need to be known.
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written by Davy McChester, August 28, 2010 21:58:57
written by Davy McChester, August 28, 2010 21:58:57
Anwar has a legitimate concern as any indication of power erosion affecting the current ruling supremacist in West Malaysia would not look good for him.Branding of him being a traitor would be undesirable at this stage if the march to putrajaya is to be realised .The transition of Sabab and Sarawak embracing PR should be handled with sensitivity ,at least for now. Surely ,Sabah and Sarawak would be better off with PR and a better future down the road..No doubt the trend to polarise is not something new in the politics of these East Malaysian States . UMNO has been at it ,stealthily, ever since the formation of Malaysia,and more brazen during Mahathir 's reign- shamelessly with its clandestine mycard to destabilise the native population
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written by Jeevan, August 28, 2010 21:44:46
written by Jeevan, August 28, 2010 21:44:46
1. A Bornean administration instead of one that is filled by Peninsula Malay Muslims
2. A clear path on handling the tens of thousands of Philippine Muslims given Mykads in Sabah
3. An autonomous decision making body, instead of being run entirely by KL
4. A stop to the situation where Sabahan Bumi's are now third class citizens in their own state
This are some of the points where the 12 stand strongly upon, and in which they have very little faith that Anwar and his people care much about.
2. A clear path on handling the tens of thousands of Philippine Muslims given Mykads in Sabah
3. An autonomous decision making body, instead of being run entirely by KL
4. A stop to the situation where Sabahan Bumi's are now third class citizens in their own state
This are some of the points where the 12 stand strongly upon, and in which they have very little faith that Anwar and his people care much about.
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written by Better My, August 28, 2010 21:41:22
written by Better My, August 28, 2010 21:41:22
written by arazak, August 28, 2010 20:25:16 Either the Dirty dozen or Anwar had breached the agreement . . ., Anwar has to come clean on this to clear the air. Regardless, I think they should allow the 12 to form the Parti Cinta Sabah with the understanding that they will become a PR component party"
Anwar or PKR, like other party leaders and parties, DAP/PAS had and will make mistakes in future. they are fine as long as they are infrequent and of non-corrupt nature to the tune of billions in theft for Anwar personal gains. The mistakes are part and parcel of the journey, with right or wrong colateral damage by him/party, as long they are made under the accounts of the Putrajuya march to victory.
Ther are many ifs if the 12 are alowed to do their own things or forming their own party. The rootless gypsies vagabonds will bend with the winds of change , as they have done in the past, whereas PKR/PR parties are proven solids in their foundations. Surely, local leaders will be the focus still after the restructure, but with them working fully with KLPKR. that is a good thing.
written by temanmu, August 28, 2010 19:21:11 Does PKR want to have Parti Cinta Sabah to be part of PR in Sabah instead?
A Sabah malysian patriot would let KL PKR set the agenda and work with their reprsentatives in Sabah.
A selfish Jeff K & 12 would dream of Parti Cinta Sabah to wreck the whole PR. Obviously, PKR has looked at this possibility and decided that they can rebuild from here. If PKR dont do anytiing, they are F anyway in Sabah, due to Jeff failed performance in Sabah.
Sabahan must decide whether they want to cut-off-their -nose-to-spite-their-face?
Anwar or PKR, like other party leaders and parties, DAP/PAS had and will make mistakes in future. they are fine as long as they are infrequent and of non-corrupt nature to the tune of billions in theft for Anwar personal gains. The mistakes are part and parcel of the journey, with right or wrong colateral damage by him/party, as long they are made under the accounts of the Putrajuya march to victory.
Ther are many ifs if the 12 are alowed to do their own things or forming their own party. The rootless gypsies vagabonds will bend with the winds of change , as they have done in the past, whereas PKR/PR parties are proven solids in their foundations. Surely, local leaders will be the focus still after the restructure, but with them working fully with KLPKR. that is a good thing.
written by temanmu, August 28, 2010 19:21:11 Does PKR want to have Parti Cinta Sabah to be part of PR in Sabah instead?
A Sabah malysian patriot would let KL PKR set the agenda and work with their reprsentatives in Sabah.
A selfish Jeff K & 12 would dream of Parti Cinta Sabah to wreck the whole PR. Obviously, PKR has looked at this possibility and decided that they can rebuild from here. If PKR dont do anytiing, they are F anyway in Sabah, due to Jeff failed performance in Sabah.
Sabahan must decide whether they want to cut-off-their -nose-to-spite-their-face?
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written by Tompios, August 28, 2010 21:39:53
written by Tompios, August 28, 2010 21:39:53
Dear Pete,
Get your fact correct. Where you get 11.5% Malays in Sabah? Do you mean the Brunei's Malay (s)? As far as I know there is no Malay in Sabah. Those who claim themselves as Malays are Polipin and Indun! Anyway, because of UMNO the Bajau noonday is also claim their self as Malay descendant of Bajau tribe and so to the Polipin and Indun who got IC through Saiful's door. Well, whatever it is majority Sabahan especially the Kafir tribes in Sabah love Sabah better than anyone. I love Sabah. Sabah for Sabahan. Hidup Sabah.
Get your fact correct. Where you get 11.5% Malays in Sabah? Do you mean the Brunei's Malay (s)? As far as I know there is no Malay in Sabah. Those who claim themselves as Malays are Polipin and Indun! Anyway, because of UMNO the Bajau noonday is also claim their self as Malay descendant of Bajau tribe and so to the Polipin and Indun who got IC through Saiful's door. Well, whatever it is majority Sabahan especially the Kafir tribes in Sabah love Sabah better than anyone. I love Sabah. Sabah for Sabahan. Hidup Sabah.
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written by Better My, August 28, 2010 21:15:48
written by Better My, August 28, 2010 21:15:48
The fact is Jeff K & presumably his gypoise vagabond groupie has hell of a shocker in performance, during and after Nov/Dec 2009 till NOW. They were just about invisible, some planet distance away. Jeff K’s impasse with KL PKR for so many months is unforgiveable, together with his many other antics past months. Their performance deserves a Fail grade rating. This was Jeff K/PKR Sabah downfall o fhis own making. That are very few mitigating factors for Jeff K to remain in the same position of authority for Sabah PKR.
That is the crux of the matter. They were leading PKR Sabah and the member flock to the BeEnd slaughter house.
Regardless of the deal or no deal, lie or no lie, it would be an exceptional brave PKR to dismiss a well oiled and effective running team with Jeff at the helm , pushing all the right buttons there. Since it has been the opposite from Dec 09, it very easy for KL PKR or any other party supreme chief to dismiss the FAILED team and Jeff K for one reason or another. If it is not for the present reason given, it would have been ANOTHER reason later. In the end, the reason does not matter, it is a restructure we HAD to have.
The questions we ask.
Do we want the critical Sabah to be on the very important side of the ledger, favourable to PKR/PR to get us into Putrajaya by hook or crook? Even to the extent of PKR doing some wrongs? Yes.
Or do we want to be nice guys and get F in the the next GE, with a very high possibility of Jeff K letting the WHOLE PR down because he was sitting on his bum dreaming of other agenda, with way below par performance, from Jan 10 till the next GE? No.
Are we not hungry & mongrel enough to want to reach the destination, with some right or wrong collateral damage along the way? Yes, at least I am.
Do we want to condone perceived or actual wrong, breaking of a deal, rightly or wrongly with lie or without lie? NO but in the present context, It is a yes. We have lots of time post GE, like decades, to refine these ethics that must be respected by all - or else, the free press and rakyat will desert any party that breaches significant big issues or pomises or party that tell big lies.
I am firmly on the camp that we must get to Putrajaya first. If we don’t get in, all these are purely academic, doesn’t do anything good to the nation and the rakyat. The errors of some of PR ways , in this case, perceived or even actual cuurent PKR ways in Sabah, pale into insignificance to the mountain of benefits that PR will service provide to every rakyat , including all Sabahan. Just like any perceived or actual wrongs on the support of Ronnie , to the extent of even harbouring a guilty party. Or matching the all BeEnd documented/illefal oferred bribes during any elections. I wil endure (trade) harbouring a guilty corrupt Ronnie (only for purpose of argument only) for the PR victory anytime,
I ask all in Sabah and the members of the good force to look at the BIG picture. All PKR leaders must work with the central committee, headed by PKR supremo elders/leaders. The same for DAP & PAS – their members must also work with the DAP/PAS supremos. And if any key memebrs underperform AND have other unauthorized agenda, like Jeff K had, they must be restructured without hesitation.
In Sabah, the second tiers of Sabah leaders will come into the fold, working with KL PKR fuly on the Sabah soupy mix of people with Jeff K playing a part or not. The marginalised will have their oppotunities to play their part next time. The sun will rise in the morning tomorrow and set in the evening, but we wil be stronger in critical Sabah after the restructure. At the very least, we can rebuild from here on and not pretend thay all is going well in Sabah.
PKR/PR is doing great on the Felda/Felcra fronts. PR Sarawak appears to be doing very well from all the noises we hear there. We need PR Sabah to do as well as possible. Then, all three CRITICAL bases are covered well. Then the PR project management on these critical areas is given a big tick. .
That is the crux of the matter. They were leading PKR Sabah and the member flock to the BeEnd slaughter house.
Regardless of the deal or no deal, lie or no lie, it would be an exceptional brave PKR to dismiss a well oiled and effective running team with Jeff at the helm , pushing all the right buttons there. Since it has been the opposite from Dec 09, it very easy for KL PKR or any other party supreme chief to dismiss the FAILED team and Jeff K for one reason or another. If it is not for the present reason given, it would have been ANOTHER reason later. In the end, the reason does not matter, it is a restructure we HAD to have.
The questions we ask.
Do we want the critical Sabah to be on the very important side of the ledger, favourable to PKR/PR to get us into Putrajaya by hook or crook? Even to the extent of PKR doing some wrongs? Yes.
Or do we want to be nice guys and get F in the the next GE, with a very high possibility of Jeff K letting the WHOLE PR down because he was sitting on his bum dreaming of other agenda, with way below par performance, from Jan 10 till the next GE? No.
Are we not hungry & mongrel enough to want to reach the destination, with some right or wrong collateral damage along the way? Yes, at least I am.
Do we want to condone perceived or actual wrong, breaking of a deal, rightly or wrongly with lie or without lie? NO but in the present context, It is a yes. We have lots of time post GE, like decades, to refine these ethics that must be respected by all - or else, the free press and rakyat will desert any party that breaches significant big issues or pomises or party that tell big lies.
I am firmly on the camp that we must get to Putrajaya first. If we don’t get in, all these are purely academic, doesn’t do anything good to the nation and the rakyat. The errors of some of PR ways , in this case, perceived or even actual cuurent PKR ways in Sabah, pale into insignificance to the mountain of benefits that PR will service provide to every rakyat , including all Sabahan. Just like any perceived or actual wrongs on the support of Ronnie , to the extent of even harbouring a guilty party. Or matching the all BeEnd documented/illefal oferred bribes during any elections. I wil endure (trade) harbouring a guilty corrupt Ronnie (only for purpose of argument only) for the PR victory anytime,
I ask all in Sabah and the members of the good force to look at the BIG picture. All PKR leaders must work with the central committee, headed by PKR supremo elders/leaders. The same for DAP & PAS – their members must also work with the DAP/PAS supremos. And if any key memebrs underperform AND have other unauthorized agenda, like Jeff K had, they must be restructured without hesitation.
In Sabah, the second tiers of Sabah leaders will come into the fold, working with KL PKR fuly on the Sabah soupy mix of people with Jeff K playing a part or not. The marginalised will have their oppotunities to play their part next time. The sun will rise in the morning tomorrow and set in the evening, but we wil be stronger in critical Sabah after the restructure. At the very least, we can rebuild from here on and not pretend thay all is going well in Sabah.
PKR/PR is doing great on the Felda/Felcra fronts. PR Sarawak appears to be doing very well from all the noises we hear there. We need PR Sabah to do as well as possible. Then, all three CRITICAL bases are covered well. Then the PR project management on these critical areas is given a big tick. .
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written by temenggong, August 28, 2010 21:13:13
written by temenggong, August 28, 2010 21:13:13
The short of it is that 6 months later Anwar broke the deal. I spoke with some of the 12 in Feb 2010.
PKR wants a muslim dominated Sabah.
It's time to get rid of Anwar.
PKR wants a muslim dominated Sabah.
It's time to get rid of Anwar.
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written by arazak, August 28, 2010 21:11:55
written by arazak, August 28, 2010 21:11:55
wali10,
I said, "with the understanding that they will become a PR component party", not an ally but a component party (PAS, DAP and PKR are component parties in Pakatan Rakyaat). That means there is a side agreement that they will be under PR if they wish to form PCS (I think they would have agreed to this).
And mind you, we were made to understand that those 12 are community leaders with strong grass-root base.
About the concept of re-branding. . .
In Malaysia, they call it Nissan Latio. . ., in the Middle-east, they call the same damn thing, "Nissan Tiida".
Why Nissan did not not brand the same product with a universal name "Tiida". Do you think they can sell a car by the name of "Tiida" in Malaysia? "Tiida' sounds lika "tiada" or "tidak" which means nothing, elek, zip, ziltch, sifr, nada. . .!
It is just re-branding . ., the aspiration is still the same for all PR component parties. . ., justice and fairness to all!
I said, "with the understanding that they will become a PR component party", not an ally but a component party (PAS, DAP and PKR are component parties in Pakatan Rakyaat). That means there is a side agreement that they will be under PR if they wish to form PCS (I think they would have agreed to this).
And mind you, we were made to understand that those 12 are community leaders with strong grass-root base.
About the concept of re-branding. . .
In Malaysia, they call it Nissan Latio. . ., in the Middle-east, they call the same damn thing, "Nissan Tiida".
Why Nissan did not not brand the same product with a universal name "Tiida". Do you think they can sell a car by the name of "Tiida" in Malaysia? "Tiida' sounds lika "tiada" or "tidak" which means nothing, elek, zip, ziltch, sifr, nada. . .!
It is just re-branding . ., the aspiration is still the same for all PR component parties. . ., justice and fairness to all!
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written by wali10, August 28, 2010 20:45:21
written by wali10, August 28, 2010 20:45:21
What arazak has mentioned is very unlikely to materialise.
If there were Parti Cinta Sabah (PCS), the chances of PKR winning a single seat over there is half in a million! And do you think PCS leadership will ally with PKR? Most likely not - knowing the way that PKR leadership treated them.
If there were Parti Cinta Sabah (PCS), the chances of PKR winning a single seat over there is half in a million! And do you think PCS leadership will ally with PKR? Most likely not - knowing the way that PKR leadership treated them.
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written by arazak, August 28, 2010 20:25:16
written by arazak, August 28, 2010 20:25:16
Either the Dirty dozen or Anwar had breached the agreement . . ., Anwar has to come clean on this to clear the air.
Regardless, I think they should allow the 12 to form the Parti Cinta Sabah with the understanding that they will become a PR component party. Instead of punishment it is better to diversify product branding. A brand name in one state may not be popular in another. This is why some successful organization "localized" their brand name to suit local needs!
I am surprise at this twist of event!
Regardless, I think they should allow the 12 to form the Parti Cinta Sabah with the understanding that they will become a PR component party. Instead of punishment it is better to diversify product branding. A brand name in one state may not be popular in another. This is why some successful organization "localized" their brand name to suit local needs!
I am surprise at this twist of event!
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written by wali10, August 28, 2010 20:09:28
written by wali10, August 28, 2010 20:09:28
salam,
It appears that a deal was concluded on 6th December 2009. The turning down of JK's resignation and reinstatement of Christina Liew after the 'deal' date imply and indicate that an amicable solution and a concrete agreement has been reached.
Now if PKR HQ or DS Anwar does not honour that agreement and flip-flopping his words, then the trust in PKR leadership is eroded... gone.... kaput!
Goodbye Anwar, goodbye PKR. Its hard to trust u both again. Once bitten forever shy!
It appears that a deal was concluded on 6th December 2009. The turning down of JK's resignation and reinstatement of Christina Liew after the 'deal' date imply and indicate that an amicable solution and a concrete agreement has been reached.
Now if PKR HQ or DS Anwar does not honour that agreement and flip-flopping his words, then the trust in PKR leadership is eroded... gone.... kaput!
Goodbye Anwar, goodbye PKR. Its hard to trust u both again. Once bitten forever shy!
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written by earthman, August 28, 2010 19:38:08
written by earthman, August 28, 2010 19:38:08
A deal is a deal, so maybe the 12 had committed treason? Or is it the PKR chief? Whatever the deal it must be made known to the people. The leaders are supposed to serve the people and not rule the people.
The truth will be revealed and the traitor shall received his judgement. We do not need such leaders who think that they are more important than their duty ti serve. Vote for change. the time is near.
The truth will be revealed and the traitor shall received his judgement. We do not need such leaders who think that they are more important than their duty ti serve. Vote for change. the time is near.
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written by hellosunshine, August 28, 2010 19:37:47
written by hellosunshine, August 28, 2010 19:37:47
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive - Sir Walter Scott
wiki.answers - Deception is a false reality imposed on a true reality. It is a fragile and complex weaving of truth, half truths', lies and lies of omission. To successfully deceive another or several people, one must be skilled in the art of deception. To create a deception worthy of belief one must be able to create plausible details that help create the illusion of truth. It is the details that people listen to and remember and the one deceiving is obligated to remember these detail in order to avoid having the lie exposed. The problem with remembering the lies we tell is that all people are basically good and we tend to forget the bad things we've done. In order to successfully perpetuate deception, the liar must be willing to live that lie when necessary. This becomes the tangled web we weave, especially when first we practice to deceive.
wiki.answers - Deception is a false reality imposed on a true reality. It is a fragile and complex weaving of truth, half truths', lies and lies of omission. To successfully deceive another or several people, one must be skilled in the art of deception. To create a deception worthy of belief one must be able to create plausible details that help create the illusion of truth. It is the details that people listen to and remember and the one deceiving is obligated to remember these detail in order to avoid having the lie exposed. The problem with remembering the lies we tell is that all people are basically good and we tend to forget the bad things we've done. In order to successfully perpetuate deception, the liar must be willing to live that lie when necessary. This becomes the tangled web we weave, especially when first we practice to deceive.
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written by educationist, August 28, 2010 19:37:22
written by educationist, August 28, 2010 19:37:22
Sorry, RPK, I'll not be as circumspect as you:
"If there are allegations that PKR or Anwar make promises but never keeps them then we are as good as dead in the water."- the fact is that Anwar's credibility has been called to question esp over the 916 issue & the info released thus far with regards the Sabah 12 issue.
"If there are allegations that PKR or Anwar make promises but never keeps them then we are as good as dead in the water."- the fact is that Anwar's credibility has been called to question esp over the 916 issue & the info released thus far with regards the Sabah 12 issue.
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