The hypocrisy of Muslims is so mind-boggling that sometimes I am ashamed to admit I am a Muslim. Stupid Muslims do and say stupid things while those who know better keep quiet and pretend what is being said and done by these stupid people is correct. Their silence and inaction in opposing and correcting transgressions and violations to Islam make these people guilty of complicity. Those who remain quiet are as guilty as those who commit these crimes against Islam.
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
According to Islamic history, Muhammad was a 'restless soul' who used to withdraw from society to contemplate all alone in a deserted cave for days on end. In this isolation or 'solitary confinement', Muhammad would ponder in search of the Creator. One day, the Angel Gabriel descended to earth to command Muhammad to read. Muhammad replied that he was unlearned and could not read whereby Gabriel repeated the command to Muhammad who continued protesting that he was not capable of reading. Gabriel finally grabbed Muhammad and shook him with such great force that he was compelled to obey the command lest his very life get shaken out of him.
Muhammad was greatly disturbed and in utter shock. He ran back to his wife, Khatijah, and jumped under the blanket while relating to her what he had just experienced. Khatijah, who was older than him and probably quite intelligent considering she already owned a successful business enterprise before she married Muhammad, decided to go see her cousin. Some accounts say she brought Muhammad to meet her cousin. Suffice to say, whether Muhammad did or did not go along, Khatijah did go see her cousin and there appears to be no dispute on this point.
Khatijah's cousin had much earlier converted to Christianity and was an ulama or learned person. When he heard what Khatijah had to relate he said that Muhammad was destined to become a Prophet and he prayed he would still be alive to see this happen. He also predicted that Muhammad would face much trials and tribulations in his God-given mission to spread the word and to bring the Arabs out of the darkness of paganism in the period that Muslims call the era of ignorance or jahil.
Yes, it was a Christian who in a way 'anointed' Muhammad as the Prophet of Islam when Muhammad himself thought he was going mad and told his wife so. But Khatijah's cousin, the learned Christian, convinced Khatijah that Muhammad was not going mad but had been chosen by God as the next Prophet and that she should go home and inform Muhammad of this. Muhammad would probably never have returned to that cave and would instead have asked Khatijah to commit him into a mental asylum if not for her learned Christian cousin.
That, in a nutshell, was the relationship between Muhammad and Christianity in the days when Muhammad had not yet 'seen the light'. And it took a Christian to convince Muhammad that he was not going mad but was in fact a Prophet. And, yes, the Christian cousin of Muhammad's wife was an Arab, as was Muhammad, and the Arab Bible was in Arabic, the language of Islam, and the Arab Christian God was called Allah, as was the God of the pagan Arabs who also had 360 other Gods alongside Allah -- which about 21 years later were all 'sacked' in favour of just the one God, Allah, the same God of the Jews and Christians of the Arabian Peninsular of that era.
This controversy about banning the Bahasa Malaysia version of the Bible and banning the use of the word Allah in the Bible is not new. Of course, more than 1,500 years ago in Arabia, the Arabic version of the Bible was not banned, nor was the use of the word Allah in the Bible. In fact, there was already an Arabic Bible long before there was an Arabic Quran and the Arab Christians already called God Allah long before Gabriel commanded Muhammad to read.
Malaysian Ministers are expected to be learned in matters of religion and Islamic history. And if they are not then it is expected that those from Pusat Islam and the Religious Department who are would be able to guide the Ministers on what is right and what is not. But ignorant Ministers make stupid statements and come out with stupid policies while learned Muslims from Pusat Islam and the Religious Department, who are there only for the salary and not because of Islam, shut their mouths and do not dare make a squeak.
The hypocrisy of Muslims is so mind-boggling that sometimes I am ashamed to admit I am a Muslim. Stupid Muslims do and say stupid things while those who know better keep quiet and pretend what is being said and done by these stupid people is correct. Their silence and inaction in opposing and correcting transgressions and violations to Islam make these people guilty of complicity. Those who remain quiet are as guilty as those who commit these crimes against Islam.
I give up on Muslims who are all bloody hypocrites. These people are more concerned about young people who hold hands in a park or about whether the clothes they wear are too 'sexy'. These people do not care whether there are injustices to Islam perpetuated in the name of Islam. Islam is being put to ridicule. And our government and Prime Minister say one thing but do the opposite.
Badawi asks Malaysians to adopt moderate path
Kuala Lumpur, Dec 26, 2007 : Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has again criticised the narrow-mindedness and intolerance propounded by a small group of people and has urged his countrymen to adopt a moderate path.
"Over the last few months, narrow-mindedness and intolerance, propounded by a small group, have served to test our faith in each other," he said in his Christmas message.
Malaysians should move forward and put the country's interest before any narrowly defined demands," he was quoted as saying by the Star newspaper Wednesday.
Malaysia has been in the news following a protest rally staged by Hindu Rights Action Force (Hindraf), which claims to speak for the Indian ethnic community, who form eight percent of the country's 27 million people.
Hindraf organised a rally Nov 25 that attracted an estimated 10,000 people. Although it was peaceful, police dispersed it using water cannons and tear gas.
Thirty-one protestors were prosecuted, while five of the Hindraf leaders are in jail for two years under the stringent Internal Security Act (ISA).
Malaysia rejected concerns raised by India and the US, terming it 'interference in its domestic affairs'.
Noting that there was a lot in common between Islam and Christianity, he said: "Despite all the rhetoric, the great religions of the world practised across Malaysia share many universal beliefs.
"If moderation does not take centre stage, extremism will take the place and we will all be dragged into it, whether it comes from the basis of religion, race or groups," he warned.
"This is what we should watch out for, this is what it give us problems," said Badawi in his speech at a Christmas tea party organised by the Christian Federation of Malaysia and hosted by Kuala Lumpur's Archbishop Murphy Pakiam.
He also called on the people to uphold the spirit of tolerance and mutual respect that they had been practising in a multi-racial community. --- IANS
Sabah church sues PM over book ban
Soon Li Tsin, Malaysiakini | Dec 24, 07 4:46pm
A Sabah church has sued the government and Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi in his capacity as internal security minister for not allowing the import of Christian literature from Indonesia containing the word ‘Allah’.
Sabah Sidang Injil Borneo (SIB) Church president Pastor Jerry Dusing filed the suit on behalf of the church at the Kuala Lumpur High Court on Dec 10 after six titles for their Sunday school education for children were banned from being imported.
The church is also asking the court to compel the minister to return the consignment of materials that were ‘unlawfully detained’ by customs officers at the Low-Cost Carrier Terminal on Aug 15.
According to letters from the ministry, the books were banned because the Bahasa Indonesia publications contained various words that are exclusive only to Islam.
The words in contention are ‘Allah’ (God), ‘Baitullah’ (House of God), ‘Solat’ (prayer) and ‘Kaabah’ (The Sacred House).
The letters state that the ministry is allowed to stop any propagation of religious doctrine or belief to Muslims in accordance with Article 11(4) of the Federal Constitution allowing certain words to be restricted and prohibited from use.
The ministry explained that the prohibition was due to the uneasiness felt in the community during the late 1970s and early 1980s, the issue has become sensitive and been classified as a security issue.
It also stated further that the publications can raise confusion and controversy in the Malaysian society.
Dursing’s affidavit rebuts several of these points including the use of Alkitab - the Bahasa Indonesia translation of the Holy Bible - where the word ‘Allah’ appears.
“The Christian usage of ‘Allah’ predates Islam. ‘Allah’ is the name of God in the old and the modern Arabic Bible.
“The Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia translations of the Holy Bible have been used by Christian native peoples in Peninsular Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak for generations,” it stated.
Educational purpose
He also noted that the publications was for educational purposes within the church and was not for sale or distribution outside the church.
“The publications will not be made available to members of the public and in particular to a person professing the religion of Islam.
“The publications contain nothing which is likely to cause public alarm or which touches on the sensitivities of Islam,” the affidavit read.
A range of constitutional provision were also raised by the applicants. The hearing for the application for leave in the Kuala Lumpur High Court is scheduled to take place on Dec 27.
The controversy over the use of ‘Allah’ in non-Islam publications recently surfaced when Herald - the largest Catholic newspaper - was facing problems when renewing its annual publishing permit because of the word ‘Allah’ was used in referring to ‘God’ in its Bahasa Malaysia section.
The ministry has told the publisher to remove the entire Bahasa Malaysia section or the permit will not be renewed when it expires next week.
Asked for an explanation on the matter, Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum said the word ‘Allah’ can only be used in the context of Islam and not any other religion.
The Herald, which is published in four languages - English, Bahasa Malaysia, Chinese and Tamil - has a circulation of 12,000.
Bible Ban Shock in Southeast Asian Democracy
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Pacific Rim Bureau Chief
April 17, 2003
As Christians around the world prepare to mark their most important holiday, hundreds of thousands of believers in southeast Asia face the prospect of celebrating Easter without free access to the Bible.
In a decision indigenous Christians in eastern Malaysia have found incomprehensible, their government in Kuala Lumpur - which considers itself one of Asia's more successful democracies - has banned the Bible in their native tongue.
The Iban, the largest of 27 indigenous ethnic groups in Sarawak province on Borneo island, have since 1988 had access to the entire Bible in their own language, published by the Bible Society of Malaysia.
But now the mainly Muslim government's Home Ministry has named the Iban-language Bible as one of 35 publications it is banning because they are considered "detrimental to public peace."
Among the other books listed are Christian books in Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia, the national languages of those two countries.
They include translations of books in English by well-known Western evangelical authors J.I. Packer and John Stott. Others are books on Islamic subjects.
The books were listed in a ministry statement that cited various publication laws and said the "printing, import, production, reproduction, sale, circulation, distribution and possession of books listed under the schedule are banned in the country."
Anyone found guilty of breaching the ban faces up to three years in jail, fines of up to $5,200 or both.
About 9 percent of Malaysia's 23 million people are Christians, and most live in the east of the country. Iban is spoken by more than 400,000 people, members of a Borneo tribe that was once feared for its head-hunting.
Many have converted to Christianity, while some still practice traditional religious rituals.
Islam is Malaysia's official religion, although the federal constitution guarantees the right of all citizens to profess, practice and propagate their religion.
That freedom is subject to another clause saying that laws "may control or restrict the propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam."
Critics say this provision provides the authorities with a loophole, for example by identifying publications they can claim cause confusion among Muslims.
With the approach of Easter, an umbrella group called the Association of Churches in Sarawak issued a statement saying Christians in the province could not understand why their Bible has been banned.
"To find Bup Kudus [the Iban-language Bible] banned now has caused confusion, fear, anxiety and alarm among the Christian community in Sarawak," said the group, which comprises Catholic, Anglican, Methodist and others churches.
"Without the Iban Bible, we cannot conduct the church services," said the association's chairman, Pastor Lawrence Banyie.
'Muslims may be confused'
A local paper quoted a senior official in the ministry's "publications control" division, Elias Mat Rabi, as saying the banned books breached guidelines for religious books.
They used several terms that were also used in Islam, which could confuse people, he said.
Reached by phone in the Sarawak capital, Kuching, on Thursday, Elias declined to comment, or to explain how the Bible and other books were considered dangerous.
The secretary-general of the Malaysia National Evangelical Christian Fellowship, the Rev. Wong Kim Kong, said from Kuala Lumpur there had for some time been difficulties over the fact that some words used in Islam were also used in Christian publications.
Some Muslim leaders thought this could perplex Muslims who picked up such books.
Among the words that cause concern is "Allah." It's the word Muslims use for the deity they worship, but the Arabic word pre-dated Islam and is also used by Christian Arabs when referring to God - despite the considerable differences in the Judeo-Christian and Islamic conceptions of God.
The Iban translation of the Bible uses the term "Allah Taala" for God, while the other banned Christian books, in Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia, also use "Allah" for God.
This is thought likely to be one of the problem areas for the Home Ministry.
Kong said it was wrong for a specific religion to claim monopoly over certain words. "Terminology or language doesn't belong to any particular religion. It is universal property."
If the government was worried some Muslims may be confused, it was the government's responsibility to tackle the problem through educational programs aimed at Muslims - not by banning Christian books, he said.
"In a multi-cultural, multi-religious society like ours, it is important for the government to go through a process of what we call 'natural justice' - it should consult or discuss with the organizations concerned before making a decision affecting them."
Kong and other Christian leaders have scheduled a meeting with a government deputy minister later this month to discuss the ban, he said.
A representative of the Bible Society of Malaysia, Dr. Victor Wong, said Thursday the publishers were flabbergasted at why the government had chosen to ban the Iban translation 15 years after the first edition came out.
The Iban version was now in its eighth edition, and a run of around 5,000 were printed about every five years, he said.
Wong declined to comment further, saying the Society was "watching to see what happens" before taking further action. He noted that a number of Christian bodies had protested the government action.
The Christian community has also won support from the Democratic Action Party (DAP), a secular opposition party, which said the ban should be lifted.
DAP lawmaker Teresa Kok called the ban arbitrary and unjustifiable, and asked the government to "explain why it considers the books to be detrimental to public health."
Stung By Outcry, Malaysia Gov't Reverses Bible Ban
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Pacific Rim Bureau Chief
May 01, 2003
An outcry from Malaysian Christians has prompted the government of the predominantly Muslim country to reverse its ban on Bibles published in the language of an indigenous ethnic group.
The decision was announced by acting Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, who said banning the Iban-language Bible would spark anger in the Christian community.
The edition was banned last month, 15 years after it was first published to serve the needs of a community of erstwhile headhunters on Borneo island, many of whom have converted from animism to Christianity.
The decision to ban the Iban Bible, plus 34 other religious books considered "detrimental to public peace," was attributed to officials at the Home Ministry, acting on the advice of the Department of Islamic Development.
The department's main gripe was that the Iban translation of the Bible uses the term "Allah" for God.
The contention was that this could confuse any Muslim picking up the Iban Bible.
Among the other banned books were several Christian books by well-known Western evangelical authors, translated into the Malaysian and Indonesian national languages, and also using the word "Allah" for God.
Other books were on Islamic subjects, but not deemed orthodox.
Announcing the reversal of the ban, Abdullah said the Department of Islamic Development had felt use of the word "Allah" was inappropriate and that the Iban Bible therefore breached official guidelines for non-Islamic religious books.
He said his subsequent consultation with church leaders revealed that "the word had been used by the community as a reference to God for a very long time."
It was therefore not necessary to ban the Bible, Abdullah said, but added that it was important to ensure that religious books available in Malaysia did "not touch on the sensitivity of other religions, especially Islam."
About 60 percent of Malaysia's 23 million people are Muslims, and less than 10 percent are Christians.
About half of the 400,000 Iban, who live in Malaysia's Sarawak province on Borneo island, are Christians.
The Bible Society of Malaysia has since 1988 published the entire Bible in the Iban tongue. It also prints Bibles in Bahasa Malaysia, English, Chinese, and two other minor languages.
The decision to ban the Iban edition drew widespread condemnation, lead to heated debate on Malaysian online news portals, and prompted the launch of a petition that was signed by 1,400 people within a week.
Judging from comments on online forums, some Malaysians clearly felt the issue had less to do with semantics than with politicians pandering to their ethnic constituents ahead of elections later this year.
Church leaders, both Iban and others, appealed for it to be lifted.
'Violated constitution'
Ong Kian Ming, the Malaysian who organized the petition and conveyed it to the authorities via "informal channels," is a Christian and senior policy analyst with an independent think tank called the Socio-Economic Development and Research (Sedar) Institute.
He said Thursday he had taken the action because the Bible ban clearly violated the article in the federal constitution guaranteeing religious freedom for all Malaysians.
Ong attributed the ban to overzealous bureaucrats who wanted to monopolize the word "Allah" for Malaysian Muslims, "without realizing that Arab speaking Christians use the word Allah to address their God."
Theologians say Christians in the Arab world used the word "Allah" for God before the founding of Islam in the seventh century, and still do today, even though Muslims and Christians have substantially different conceptions of "God."
Ong welcomed the announcement that the ban was to be lifted, saying it was a positive sign that religious freedom would be upheld when Abdullah becomes premier. Veteran Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad is retiring in October.
"It assuages some of the fears many Christians here in Malaysia here have in regards to the increase of religious intolerance," Ong said.
To prevent a recurrence, Ong said the Sedar Institute recommended the establishment of an inter-religious council under the prime minister's department, comprising representatives of all religions and designed to discuss government decisions affecting all religions.
He also questioned the decision to leave the ban on the other books in place.
'Exact science'
According to Dr. Victor Wong of the Bible Society, there are no plans at present to change any words in future editions of the Iban Bible.
The matter may be discussed in some future forum, he said from Kuala Lumpur Thursday, but there could be "theological implications" to changing words.
"Bible translation is quite an exact science," he said.
Asked whether the Iban language had another word that could be used for "God," Wong explained that as a formerly animist tribe, the Iban had "all sorts of gods" and care had to be taken not to cause confusion through bad translation.
Wong said there had been an upside to the controversy, as it focused attention on the Iban Christians and an edition of the Bible that many Malaysians had not known existed before now.
It had also resulted in "a very good show of solidarity" among Christians in Malaysia.
"The important thing, though, is that the Iban come to know God, through having the Bible in their own language."
Wong described the Iban as a tribe renowned in the past for fierceness in battle, but which at the same time was also fearful because of the many gods it acknowledged.
He knew of cases where an Iban would refuse to leave the house after hearing the cry of a bird, which was interpreted as a bad omen.
Christianity had helped the Iban to leave behind this fearful existence, Wong said.
"Their lives were changed because of the word of God."
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Comments (162)
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written by pedagogical, February 08, 2008 05:19:44
written by pedagogical, February 08, 2008 05:19:44
"A Christian 'anointed' Muhammad as Prophet"
RPK, I don't even u are aware that this or many readers are aware that most of the people in Arabia who said that were christians during those times were either Nestorians or Ebionites, both of whom denied that Jesus is God.
RPK, I don't even u are aware that this or many readers are aware that most of the people in Arabia who said that were christians during those times were either Nestorians or Ebionites, both of whom denied that Jesus is God.
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written by ALHujuraat1114, February 05, 2008 06:21:33
written by ALHujuraat1114, February 05, 2008 06:21:33
Muhammad was greatly disturbed and in utter shock. He ran back to his wife, Khatijah, and jumped under the blanket while relating to her what he had just experienced.
Im just wondering what would happen to our anoited prophet if Khadijah herself profess he is a nutcase. How did her cousin know he is a prophet? Why Gabriel choose to talk to him?
Is it the man or is it the soul? They might able to to create all the sins to an unlearned man but they can never create a soul that define the Rasul
Im just wondering what would happen to our anoited prophet if Khadijah herself profess he is a nutcase. How did her cousin know he is a prophet? Why Gabriel choose to talk to him?
Is it the man or is it the soul? They might able to to create all the sins to an unlearned man but they can never create a soul that define the Rasul
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written by KuntaTobey, January 30, 2008 05:01:24
written by KuntaTobey, January 30, 2008 05:01:24
Hi, Below are some of topics that were mentioned in Al-Quran.
AL QUR'AN DAN BIOLOGI
1 - Bagian Otak yang Mengendalikan Gerak Kita
2 - Kelahiran Manusia
3 - Setetes Mani
4 - Campuran Dalam Air Mani
5 - Jenis Kelamin Bayi
6 - Segumpal Darah Yang Melekat di Rahim
7 - Pembungkusan Tulang oleh Otot
8 - Tiga Tahapan Bayi Dalam Rahim
9 - Air Susu Ibu
10 - Tanda Pengenal Manusia pada Sidik Jari
AL QUR'AN DAN BIOLOGI
1 - Bagian Otak yang Mengendalikan Gerak Kita
2 - Kelahiran Manusia
3 - Setetes Mani
4 - Campuran Dalam Air Mani
5 - Jenis Kelamin Bayi
6 - Segumpal Darah Yang Melekat di Rahim
7 - Pembungkusan Tulang oleh Otot
8 - Tiga Tahapan Bayi Dalam Rahim
9 - Air Susu Ibu
10 - Tanda Pengenal Manusia pada Sidik Jari
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written by Avanza1, January 26, 2008 15:07:26
written by Avanza1, January 26, 2008 15:07:26
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 | 12:29:06
What does the scientific of Quran says about how the human seed(semen) comes from? Did Allah forgot our DNA blue print?
What does the scientific of Quran says about how the human seed(semen) comes from? Did Allah forgot our DNA blue print?
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 26, 2008 04:16:49
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 26, 2008 04:16:49
Like what Christian did to Jesus. The only difference is Muslim change the term from God's son to God's messenger. .......... all prophet is a massenger ..... son and massenger is a different thing.... how come it be same?
Yes of course, the Arab did say about the (flawless?) sanad system where only a reporter that can pass the sanad standard is accepted. But why are there still weak hadith and fake hadiths among those thousands. if this method is perfect? If it was me, i want to verify the how the system work first. ..... then why you still waiting..... go and verify ...... don't wait until death come to you first..............
Talk about iman. Iman is belief. simple as that. What make us belief in something? Simple analogy, You don't know about Siti Nurhaliza's voice, but people say she has a nice voice. Would you belief what people say? or you want to hear it yourself to believe it? you cannot fake your belief. your heart knows it. it's our nature. So what about blindly belief that she has a nice voice? well, you can do that. But isn't it a waste of time to just blindly belief in something?
So what God and messenger thing that got to do with this? to belief in God one has to know what He wanted to say to us. What He is capable of. But how do we know that? It is through the revelation that come to us from the messenger. At that time of revelation, if you don't believe in him, how do you know what God is capable of? you can't. You'll just stick with your current belief. Hence comes the verses regarding Obey God, obey messenger. But now. At our time, the messenger is not around....................... you said you have read quran..... why you stil asking?
With Caliph Othman directions, they had managed to collect all the pieces of Muhammad's revelations from God to form Quran ..... you got the wrong information here.......... Caliph Abu Bakar as siddiq the one that order to put quran on writing ......... go and find it yourself how it happen, why, when and how they do it.
That is the processes that i had experienced. And it made me more peaceful, no hate. I feel much closer to Him because of no second or third party in between. Just me and Him. and i'm more clear than ever, with new objective in life. To find the straight path (siratul mustaqin), that'll finally lead to the eternal paradise......... belive what you want to believe ......... always remember on death ..... our journey will continue then .......... who are right and wrong will be know ......
La ilaha illallah ( there is no god but Allah) Muhammadar rasulullah (Muhammad is a messanger of Allah ) We believe in quran and it show us they way to live as Muhammad (pbuh) show to us..... like what his sahabah implement in their life ....... Every prophet come withsa me kalimah and their follower need to follow their prophet way of life ..........
Yes of course, the Arab did say about the (flawless?) sanad system where only a reporter that can pass the sanad standard is accepted. But why are there still weak hadith and fake hadiths among those thousands. if this method is perfect? If it was me, i want to verify the how the system work first. ..... then why you still waiting..... go and verify ...... don't wait until death come to you first..............
Talk about iman. Iman is belief. simple as that. What make us belief in something? Simple analogy, You don't know about Siti Nurhaliza's voice, but people say she has a nice voice. Would you belief what people say? or you want to hear it yourself to believe it? you cannot fake your belief. your heart knows it. it's our nature. So what about blindly belief that she has a nice voice? well, you can do that. But isn't it a waste of time to just blindly belief in something?
So what God and messenger thing that got to do with this? to belief in God one has to know what He wanted to say to us. What He is capable of. But how do we know that? It is through the revelation that come to us from the messenger. At that time of revelation, if you don't believe in him, how do you know what God is capable of? you can't. You'll just stick with your current belief. Hence comes the verses regarding Obey God, obey messenger. But now. At our time, the messenger is not around....................... you said you have read quran..... why you stil asking?
With Caliph Othman directions, they had managed to collect all the pieces of Muhammad's revelations from God to form Quran ..... you got the wrong information here.......... Caliph Abu Bakar as siddiq the one that order to put quran on writing ......... go and find it yourself how it happen, why, when and how they do it.
That is the processes that i had experienced. And it made me more peaceful, no hate. I feel much closer to Him because of no second or third party in between. Just me and Him. and i'm more clear than ever, with new objective in life. To find the straight path (siratul mustaqin), that'll finally lead to the eternal paradise......... belive what you want to believe ......... always remember on death ..... our journey will continue then .......... who are right and wrong will be know ......
La ilaha illallah ( there is no god but Allah) Muhammadar rasulullah (Muhammad is a messanger of Allah ) We believe in quran and it show us they way to live as Muhammad (pbuh) show to us..... like what his sahabah implement in their life ....... Every prophet come withsa me kalimah and their follower need to follow their prophet way of life ..........
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written by CatV5, January 25, 2008 17:59:47
written by CatV5, January 25, 2008 17:59:47
Bro my point is why such declaration (the syahadah) to messenger is necessary. Why such special treatment to him?. You just believe & respect ma. Just as Isa, Musa and Ibrahim and others that were mentioned on Quran. But not up to holy level where you are not considered a Muslim if you don't declare it to Mullahs. I can say it is close to idolizing him. Like what Christian did to Jesus. The only difference is Muslim change the term from God's son to God's messenger. In context, both are the same. There are lifted/idolized as a partner of God. See where i'm going here? Not rejecting him, but rather suspicious why it should be 2 kalimah? 1 kalimah is not enough?. Is it because those Arabs who make the ijma' regarding this about 1400 years ago wanted to be on par with the Christians? Christians got special prophet with miracles, Muslims at their time wanted a special prophet with miracles too? So they add miracle and high above standard of a human stories regarding him. Imagine if the one that reported the stories about Muhammad were a stalker?, or die hard fan?, extremist? 8 year old boy?, only seen him once? what could happen to their reports?
Yes of course, the Arab did say about the (flawless?) sanad system where only a reporter that can pass the sanad standard is accepted. But why are there still weak hadith and fake hadiths among those thousands. if this method is perfect? If it was me, i want to verify the how the system work first. I believe a political interest is also injected on it. Like any fatwas in favor of UMNO is accepted by JAKIM. anything that is not in favor ignored and suppressed.
16:20 As for those they call on besides God, they do not create anything, but are themselves created!
Talk about iman. Iman is belief. simple as that. What make us belief in something? Simple analogy, You don't know about Siti Nurhaliza's voice, but people say she has a nice voice. Would you belief what people say? or you want to hear it yourself to believe it? you cannot fake your belief. your heart knows it. it's our nature. So what about blindly belief that she has a nice voice? well, you can do that. But isn't it a waste of time to just blindly belief in something?
So what God and messenger thing that got to do with this? to belief in God one has to know what He wanted to say to us. What He is capable of. But how do we know that? It is through the revelation that come to us from the messenger. At that time of revelation, if you don't believe in him, how do you know what God is capable of? you can't. You'll just stick with your current belief. Hence comes the verses regarding Obey God, obey messenger. But now. At our time, the messenger is not around. With Caliph Othman directions, they had managed to collect all the pieces of Muhammad's revelations from God to form Quran (the Reading) Hence, what we read on the Quran now is what the prophet received from God. With the divine words of God and His guides then you can start to belief in Him.
That is the processes that i had experienced. And it made me more peaceful, no hate. I feel much closer to Him because of no second or third party in between. Just me and Him. and i'm more clear than ever, with new objective in life. To find the straight path (siratul mustaqin), that'll finally lead to the eternal paradise. The best investment i've ever heard of. Infinite percent profit, zero capital. No shortcuts though (i.e. suicide bombing
)
I hope i'm clear on that. Thanks for asking. Sorry if i babble too much. But for me this is a good news to the believers and a warner to the rejecters. But considering the rejections that i've seen, that made me think twice to try. But i believe someone out there might seen the light from my comments. I was once chose this path from 1 simple comment on Malaysia today too. Now i realize too that, expressing a thought regarding God, is dangerous too. One might become too obsessed with telling others that he's right and without noticing, making him arrogant. But that is where the salat(pray) comes in. It repels the egoes because of the humbleness to God. Humbleness does not come in thin air, you have to really belief that God is watching us all the time. Like i said you can't fake that belief. Shucks i babble again. I apologize. :p
Peaces
Yes of course, the Arab did say about the (flawless?) sanad system where only a reporter that can pass the sanad standard is accepted. But why are there still weak hadith and fake hadiths among those thousands. if this method is perfect? If it was me, i want to verify the how the system work first. I believe a political interest is also injected on it. Like any fatwas in favor of UMNO is accepted by JAKIM. anything that is not in favor ignored and suppressed.
16:20 As for those they call on besides God, they do not create anything, but are themselves created!
Talk about iman. Iman is belief. simple as that. What make us belief in something? Simple analogy, You don't know about Siti Nurhaliza's voice, but people say she has a nice voice. Would you belief what people say? or you want to hear it yourself to believe it? you cannot fake your belief. your heart knows it. it's our nature. So what about blindly belief that she has a nice voice? well, you can do that. But isn't it a waste of time to just blindly belief in something?
So what God and messenger thing that got to do with this? to belief in God one has to know what He wanted to say to us. What He is capable of. But how do we know that? It is through the revelation that come to us from the messenger. At that time of revelation, if you don't believe in him, how do you know what God is capable of? you can't. You'll just stick with your current belief. Hence comes the verses regarding Obey God, obey messenger. But now. At our time, the messenger is not around. With Caliph Othman directions, they had managed to collect all the pieces of Muhammad's revelations from God to form Quran (the Reading) Hence, what we read on the Quran now is what the prophet received from God. With the divine words of God and His guides then you can start to belief in Him.
That is the processes that i had experienced. And it made me more peaceful, no hate. I feel much closer to Him because of no second or third party in between. Just me and Him. and i'm more clear than ever, with new objective in life. To find the straight path (siratul mustaqin), that'll finally lead to the eternal paradise. The best investment i've ever heard of. Infinite percent profit, zero capital. No shortcuts though (i.e. suicide bombing
) I hope i'm clear on that. Thanks for asking. Sorry if i babble too much. But for me this is a good news to the believers and a warner to the rejecters. But considering the rejections that i've seen, that made me think twice to try. But i believe someone out there might seen the light from my comments. I was once chose this path from 1 simple comment on Malaysia today too. Now i realize too that, expressing a thought regarding God, is dangerous too. One might become too obsessed with telling others that he's right and without noticing, making him arrogant. But that is where the salat(pray) comes in. It repels the egoes because of the humbleness to God. Humbleness does not come in thin air, you have to really belief that God is watching us all the time. Like i said you can't fake that belief. Shucks i babble again. I apologize. :p
Peaces
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written by KuntaTobey, January 25, 2008 14:17:50
written by KuntaTobey, January 25, 2008 14:17:50
Bro Peace, Let me put in a simple way. your understanding is, since apostle is dead and we no need to obey him.
"The problem with this statement is that. The apostle is dead."
R u trying to say that the messenger should live forever so that people can believe on him. You see, Islam is a faith and you must have faith called Iman. When you have iman, you won't question this simple thing. Like example :- Alexander the Great should live now so that you will believe his great achievement.
"You can't bear witness to him. You can't question him. So what's left is just Allah for us. Compadre? And at his time he is the only source of God's words". That why people with iman will believe in Muhamamd SAW as a GOD messanger and Allah swt as GOD.
*{Ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Apostle…}* (Al-Anfal 8:20)
*{Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins …}* (Aal `Imran 3:31)
*{He who obeys the Apostle, obeys Allah...}* (An-Nisaa' 4:80)
"The problem with this statement is that. The apostle is dead."
R u trying to say that the messenger should live forever so that people can believe on him. You see, Islam is a faith and you must have faith called Iman. When you have iman, you won't question this simple thing. Like example :- Alexander the Great should live now so that you will believe his great achievement.
"You can't bear witness to him. You can't question him. So what's left is just Allah for us. Compadre? And at his time he is the only source of God's words". That why people with iman will believe in Muhamamd SAW as a GOD messanger and Allah swt as GOD.
*{Ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Apostle…}* (Al-Anfal 8:20)
*{Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins …}* (Aal `Imran 3:31)
*{He who obeys the Apostle, obeys Allah...}* (An-Nisaa' 4:80)
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written by CatV5, January 25, 2008 05:24:57
written by CatV5, January 25, 2008 05:24:57
Bro i have read Quran and understand it. Muhammad is just a messanger, no more than that. Heck Muhammad is just a title (the most praiseworthy) not a name. Obey God obey the messanger. Yes of course. But now the messenger is not here. Only Quran. So obey God and his words only is sufficient. God words of Quran comes from Gabriel and to Muhammad. Muhammad conveys them to the people at that time. So obeying Quran is like obeying the messenger too, no?
From my understanding syahadah means bearing witness. A declaration to something. I surf from the link that you gave me regarding the question that i asked you.
http://www.readingislam.com/se...boutIslamE
Allow me to quote:
In short the two parts of the Shahadah are like the two sides of the same coin. One part states one's acceptance of the One True God, which relates to one's faith and conviction, which is inward. The other states one's acceptance of God's Messenger on earth, which relates to one's commitment to live in obedience to God's commandments, which expresses itself in one's outward life as lived daily.
That is why Allah in the Noble Qur'an commands:
*{Ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Apostle…}* (Al-Anfal 8:20)
*{Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins …}* (Aal `Imran 3:31)
*{He who obeys the Apostle, obeys Allah...}* (An-Nisaa' 4:80)
These verses make clear that the acceptance of the Prophet is the acceptance of Allah. This is because it is the Prophet who received the Noble Qur'an and brought it then to people. So, any person who questions the Prophet, is actually questioning Allah and His Qur'an.
*end quote
The problem with this statement is that. The apostle is dead. You can't bear witness to him. You can't question him. So what's left is just Allah for us. Compadre? And at his time he is the only source of God's words. Quran is not compiled yet. So people at that time can only consult him. But at our time, we can consult the book itself bcuz it's compiled. Right at our hands. At a c***k of a button if you use the internet.
There were some problems while compiling Quran, check out yourself. But God had promised that Quran will be guarded. So i want to leave it at that. I want to believe that promise. Unless you want to believe that it is not complete, not detailed enough, Hadith is the second source, i'm not stopping you. It's your believe.
Do you know? the munafiks (hypocrites) at his time used to bear witness to the apostle? check out verse 63:1 - asyhadu innaka larasul Allah. Means We bear witness that you are indeed Allah's messenger (context, "you" is the prophet). That is what the munafiks says in Quran. Sorry count me out.
I'm not afraid of the truth. That is what i understand from the path that is shown to me. You tell me where is my wrong in this statement? I'll consider it is my fault because of my lack of understanding.
Peace brother.
From my understanding syahadah means bearing witness. A declaration to something. I surf from the link that you gave me regarding the question that i asked you.
http://www.readingislam.com/se...boutIslamE
Allow me to quote:
In short the two parts of the Shahadah are like the two sides of the same coin. One part states one's acceptance of the One True God, which relates to one's faith and conviction, which is inward. The other states one's acceptance of God's Messenger on earth, which relates to one's commitment to live in obedience to God's commandments, which expresses itself in one's outward life as lived daily.
That is why Allah in the Noble Qur'an commands:
*{Ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Apostle…}* (Al-Anfal 8:20)
*{Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins …}* (Aal `Imran 3:31)
*{He who obeys the Apostle, obeys Allah...}* (An-Nisaa' 4:80)
These verses make clear that the acceptance of the Prophet is the acceptance of Allah. This is because it is the Prophet who received the Noble Qur'an and brought it then to people. So, any person who questions the Prophet, is actually questioning Allah and His Qur'an.
*end quote
The problem with this statement is that. The apostle is dead. You can't bear witness to him. You can't question him. So what's left is just Allah for us. Compadre? And at his time he is the only source of God's words. Quran is not compiled yet. So people at that time can only consult him. But at our time, we can consult the book itself bcuz it's compiled. Right at our hands. At a c***k of a button if you use the internet.
There were some problems while compiling Quran, check out yourself. But God had promised that Quran will be guarded. So i want to leave it at that. I want to believe that promise. Unless you want to believe that it is not complete, not detailed enough, Hadith is the second source, i'm not stopping you. It's your believe.
Do you know? the munafiks (hypocrites) at his time used to bear witness to the apostle? check out verse 63:1 - asyhadu innaka larasul Allah. Means We bear witness that you are indeed Allah's messenger (context, "you" is the prophet). That is what the munafiks says in Quran. Sorry count me out.
I'm not afraid of the truth. That is what i understand from the path that is shown to me. You tell me where is my wrong in this statement? I'll consider it is my fault because of my lack of understanding.
Peace brother.
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:33:07
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:33:07
more explanation .......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyboXCIVJY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyboXCIVJY0
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:29:06
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:29:06
CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN
The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.
QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE
Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.
But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.
SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD
Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).
Surah Fussilat:
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]
Reference: http://www.irf.net/irf/compara.../index.htm
http://www.islam101.com/tauhee...Exists.htm
The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.
QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE
Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.
But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.
SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD
Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).
Surah Fussilat:
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]
Reference: http://www.irf.net/irf/compara.../index.htm
http://www.islam101.com/tauhee...Exists.htm
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:28:34
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:28:34
THEORY OF PROBABILITY
In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.
The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.
In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.
The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:27:31
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:27:31
by Dr. Zakir Naik
CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST
Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.
My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.
LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD
My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.
If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.
Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.
(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)
QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE
The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.
Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?
CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST
Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.
My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.
LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD
My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.
If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.
Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.
(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)
QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE
The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.
Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:07:00
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 25, 2008 04:07:00
dear catV5 ..... hoping to meet version 6 cat soon........
You twist my words... ......... Do you really undertand what is that syahadah mean? i bet you don't know ...... to understand arabic words you cannot rely on the translation only. If you want to know the answer .... read quran ..... why Muhammad have s.a.w other prophet s.a ... read quran ...
go to this website if you need futher clarification.....
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/DIEZone
God have send quran and prophet Muhammad as a guidance to all mankind from His time until end of this world ..... question is not for people to think but to find the answer. you afraid to the answer or what? when people ask you to meet the scholar you give an excuse. why? Don't you want the thruth or you affraid to the truth? People with excuse are those who did not open their heart and mind .....
You twist my words...
......... Do you really undertand what is that syahadah mean? i bet you don't know ...... to understand arabic words you cannot rely on the translation only. If you want to know the answer .... read quran ..... why Muhammad have s.a.w other prophet s.a ... read quran ... go to this website if you need futher clarification.....
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/DIEZone
God have send quran and prophet Muhammad as a guidance to all mankind from His time until end of this world ..... question is not for people to think but to find the answer. you afraid to the answer or what? when people ask you to meet the scholar you give an excuse. why? Don't you want the thruth or you affraid to the truth? People with excuse are those who did not open their heart and mind .....
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written by CatV5, January 21, 2008 09:48:45
written by CatV5, January 21, 2008 09:48:45
Thanks for the suggestion Penghijrah. But no thanks. I prefer asking the guidance directly from God... I don't have to drive to Kelantan (if he's there) or find his phone numbers from his colleagues, or his office..
Those questions is just for you think... if you wanna even think about it though.
Peacee
Those questions is just for you think... if you wanna even think about it though.
Peacee
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written by Penghijrah, January 21, 2008 09:16:52
written by Penghijrah, January 21, 2008 09:16:52
to CATV5 I suggest you seek best answer from Tok Guru Nik Aziz Im sure you will have no words to answer back,but wil be pleased with what you get.Tok Guru is openned to every body.
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written by Penghijrah, January 21, 2008 09:10:42
written by Penghijrah, January 21, 2008 09:10:42
To all"educated Muslims"its very true that Siti khadijah revealed the news on Muhammad Pbuh was in that state after coming out of Gua Hira'to her cristian cousin(Ugama nasrani),so whats the fuss?.Before Islam proliferated it was Cristian and pagans were around.When Muhamad was around he preached that do not worship idols and symbols(including the cross statue of puportedly of jesus on the cross).Jesus brought a religion of the book from Allah thats true enough, but according to our prophet Muhammad Pbuh prey to Allah as I prey.Not satisfied??,open the QUraan and Hadith.We can use the same word Allah refers to the same one God.The rest look for yourselves.
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written by Anak Desa, January 19, 2008 06:09:24
written by Anak Desa, January 19, 2008 06:09:24
Any changes must came within oneself,then only you can change the world around you...Mahatma Gandhi
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written by CatV5, January 18, 2008 09:15:14
written by CatV5, January 18, 2008 09:15:14
Good point Admiral. Made me think too...
Quote from taliban
If you believe there is a GOD who create everthing including you why you are worshiping other than Him? Ask yourself why do we live in this world? Why GOD send us here? for what? to worship other than Him? Ask from other then Him? Believe other then Him?
Why He send a prophet to mankind? Every prophet came with same messange. Believe in one GOD, worship Him, follow His rules, Obey to what He order, then, went you return to Him, He will put you at the best place to return (Heaven). If you worship other then Him, punishment will wait for you and the worse place will be your place for ever and ever and ever ........
I want to ask you the same question. If you believe in God, why are there 2 kalimah syahadah? Why must Muslim bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger? Other prophet/messengers (Jesus, Moses, etc) doesn't have to bear witness too? Why not only bear witness to God only? Why only Muhammad got Saidina and s.a.w whereas other prophets only got s.a? Why biasing among prophets? Why must muslims bear witness to prophets is God only not sufficient enough? Is it not the same as Christian who says Jesus is the son of God? You don't have to answer to us if you don't want to. Answer to God. May God guide you.
[4:152] To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.
Quote from taliban
If you believe there is a GOD who create everthing including you why you are worshiping other than Him? Ask yourself why do we live in this world? Why GOD send us here? for what? to worship other than Him? Ask from other then Him? Believe other then Him?
Why He send a prophet to mankind? Every prophet came with same messange. Believe in one GOD, worship Him, follow His rules, Obey to what He order, then, went you return to Him, He will put you at the best place to return (Heaven). If you worship other then Him, punishment will wait for you and the worse place will be your place for ever and ever and ever ........
I want to ask you the same question. If you believe in God, why are there 2 kalimah syahadah? Why must Muslim bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger? Other prophet/messengers (Jesus, Moses, etc) doesn't have to bear witness too? Why not only bear witness to God only? Why only Muhammad got Saidina and s.a.w whereas other prophets only got s.a? Why biasing among prophets? Why must muslims bear witness to prophets is God only not sufficient enough? Is it not the same as Christian who says Jesus is the son of God? You don't have to answer to us if you don't want to. Answer to God. May God guide you.
[4:152] To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.
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written by Fart Fart Wah, January 17, 2008 06:23:13
written by Fart Fart Wah, January 17, 2008 06:23:13
Very soon there will be a Mullah or a Muslim Minister who will claim that Mohammed actually was born in Malaysia..but ended up mysteriously in Arabia..This can only happen in Malaysia...Malaysia Boleh
look at the spirit of the teachings you fools..you split hairs over circumcision. pork eating.. dog shooting ( in Arabia they rear dogs.some have 7 to eight dogs per home..the very rich fellows)..and what not...and you let mat deros go , c4 s and you bless corruption..an you see color for universitsies, jobs in governmnets adn what not..
very soon you will be claiming Allah is a Malay..Malaysia Boleh..
look at the spirit of the teachings you fools..you split hairs over circumcision. pork eating.. dog shooting ( in Arabia they rear dogs.some have 7 to eight dogs per home..the very rich fellows)..and what not...and you let mat deros go , c4 s and you bless corruption..an you see color for universitsies, jobs in governmnets adn what not..
very soon you will be claiming Allah is a Malay..Malaysia Boleh..
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written by Admiral Tojo, January 16, 2008 03:37:49
written by Admiral Tojo, January 16, 2008 03:37:49
Dear Taliban man,
Before you comment, you should have done your homework and study the Quran very very carefully. There are 3 instances in Quran where the Prophet that received the Quran was mentioned. Ahmad, Muhammadun and Muhammadin. Ahmad - Praised, Muhammadin - the Praised one, Muhammdun - Praisworthy. All are adjectives and NOT proper nouns. When you refer to popular translations corrupted by Arabism, suddenly these words (adjectives) become proper nouns. Look at the description of the one who is praised as per Quran and compare with the Arab created character, they speak of two very different person. One was righteous and aware of injustices, the other a womaniser, pedophile, loves to kill and had friends who quarrel with each other. Two very different entities altogather. The Prophet who received Quran remains unknown (by name) till now contrary to Arab lies. Afterall the Arabs are condemned in Quran as in 9:97 and many more verses for lying and attributing their lies to GOD, knowingly. Do you still want to be an Arab wannabe? The lies that they propogate (the Arabs) are being rubbed in their faces now. They will wallow in it.
Hope this explains.
Salaam/Shalom/Peace
Before you comment, you should have done your homework and study the Quran very very carefully. There are 3 instances in Quran where the Prophet that received the Quran was mentioned. Ahmad, Muhammadun and Muhammadin. Ahmad - Praised, Muhammadin - the Praised one, Muhammdun - Praisworthy. All are adjectives and NOT proper nouns. When you refer to popular translations corrupted by Arabism, suddenly these words (adjectives) become proper nouns. Look at the description of the one who is praised as per Quran and compare with the Arab created character, they speak of two very different person. One was righteous and aware of injustices, the other a womaniser, pedophile, loves to kill and had friends who quarrel with each other. Two very different entities altogather. The Prophet who received Quran remains unknown (by name) till now contrary to Arab lies. Afterall the Arabs are condemned in Quran as in 9:97 and many more verses for lying and attributing their lies to GOD, knowingly. Do you still want to be an Arab wannabe? The lies that they propogate (the Arabs) are being rubbed in their faces now. They will wallow in it.
Hope this explains.
Salaam/Shalom/Peace
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 16, 2008 01:10:08
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 16, 2008 01:10:08
Dear shalom
Muhammad is a virtual Arab created character that does not exist in Quran but in folklores and myths of the Persian writers such as Bukhari, Muslim etc. Abraham rebelled against the religion of his own father. They ALL advised their people to DROP religions like a HOT Brick. ????????????
Where did you get this fact? i think you the one that confused.......... Muhammad is a virtual arab? been created? not exist in quran? dude.... on which earth are you living on? He does exits ... he have been mention in taurat, injil , quran and have been told to prophet before him that he is a last prophet and going to be send to the greatest ummah.
Muhammad is a virtual Arab created character that does not exist in Quran but in folklores and myths of the Persian writers such as Bukhari, Muslim etc. Abraham rebelled against the religion of his own father. They ALL advised their people to DROP religions like a HOT Brick. ????????????
Where did you get this fact? i think you the one that confused.......... Muhammad is a virtual arab? been created? not exist in quran? dude.... on which earth are you living on? He does exits ... he have been mention in taurat, injil , quran and have been told to prophet before him that he is a last prophet and going to be send to the greatest ummah.
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written by michael chick, January 15, 2008 12:20:29
written by michael chick, January 15, 2008 12:20:29
As I understand it, the word “Allah†is a derivative word of the Sanskrit language. Similes would be Akka and Amba. This should come as no surprise as the original 360 deity statues were of Hindu origin anyway, as was King Vikramadiya’s inscription on the golden dish contained within the Ka’abah itself. The same black stone contained within the Kaabah is called the “Hajra Aswadâ€Â. Ironically the Hindu Lingghi or Lingham, is also called the Sanghey Ashweta. Both words have their origins in the Sanskrit language. Please consult your favorite linguist for verification. I stress linguist, and NOT religious advocate, to reduce any possible “unbiasnessâ€Â. (geseran Bahasa)
Coming back to the name “Allahâ€Â, it has been established that the Sanskrit language translates it as “Motherâ€Â, or “Goddessâ€Â, or “Mother Goddessâ€Â. This appellation has been retained by the Muslims, some say as a form of continuity, and for the ease of transition of the people’s religion of the middle-east from Hinduism and Paganism to Islam. Mecca was already the pilgrimage focal-point of the Hindus & Pagan Arabs as their Holy Site for centuries pre-dating the birth of the prophet Muhammad (real name Ahmad). In fact, the grandfather of Prophet Muhammad (saw) was one of the keepers of the then Pagan Ka’abah. One of his duties included the daily cleaning of the 360 golden pagan statues contained within this Holy Place.
The parallel Christian story is, that Dec 25th was really the Birthday of Horus (Son of Isis 4,000bc) and NOT the birthday of Jesus. The Roman Pope “canonized†it to minimize the transitional “shock†from Paganism to Roman Catholism. Thus, certain “traditions†are kept for ease of religious transitional purposes.
To preserve inter-faith religious harmony, I will not get into the discussions of the shaving of heads, or the perambulations as practiced by both the Hindu and Islamic religions when performing pilgrimage at the Kaa’bah. It raises too may doctrinal questions.
I will however, highlight:
Surah 3 verse 48
“And He (Allah) will teach him the Scripture, and Wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel(Bible).â€Â
Also:
Surah 3 verse 3
â€ÂHe (Allah) hath revealed unto thee the Scripture with Truth, confirming that which was before it even as He (Allah) revealed the Torah and the Gospel (Bible).â€Â
You might also want to read about the additional definitions of the name of Allah at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah for even more alternative views.
So perhaps the Christian Community should NOT be using the term “Allah†in their Alkitab, even though Khadijah’s cousin, Waraqah (Christian Pastor), had been preaching Christianity using the same name of “Allah†from his Arabic Talmud/Torah and his Injil/ Kitab (book of Matthew only). Although the Christian community may be historically correct when using the term “Allahâ€Â, they may face some inferred “paganistic conflicts†as the term “Allah†also has female connotations in the Sanskrit origin of its derivative. They should instead be adhering to either Yahweh, Yehovah among the many other names of God so as to be more theologically "accurate". Christianity after all, insist that their God is a He.
Final Word, IMHO, Christians should NOT use the term “Allah†in their Alkitab or any other publication when referring to their God.
“Uncle†Pak Lah, maybe you should have let the “INTER-FAITH†Conference proceed instead of canceling it. Now you have a very confused nation. Each citizen not fully understanding one another’s religions. Leaving everyone in a very confused and sorry state.
Coming back to the name “Allahâ€Â, it has been established that the Sanskrit language translates it as “Motherâ€Â, or “Goddessâ€Â, or “Mother Goddessâ€Â. This appellation has been retained by the Muslims, some say as a form of continuity, and for the ease of transition of the people’s religion of the middle-east from Hinduism and Paganism to Islam. Mecca was already the pilgrimage focal-point of the Hindus & Pagan Arabs as their Holy Site for centuries pre-dating the birth of the prophet Muhammad (real name Ahmad). In fact, the grandfather of Prophet Muhammad (saw) was one of the keepers of the then Pagan Ka’abah. One of his duties included the daily cleaning of the 360 golden pagan statues contained within this Holy Place.
The parallel Christian story is, that Dec 25th was really the Birthday of Horus (Son of Isis 4,000bc) and NOT the birthday of Jesus. The Roman Pope “canonized†it to minimize the transitional “shock†from Paganism to Roman Catholism. Thus, certain “traditions†are kept for ease of religious transitional purposes.
To preserve inter-faith religious harmony, I will not get into the discussions of the shaving of heads, or the perambulations as practiced by both the Hindu and Islamic religions when performing pilgrimage at the Kaa’bah. It raises too may doctrinal questions.
I will however, highlight:
Surah 3 verse 48
“And He (Allah) will teach him the Scripture, and Wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel(Bible).â€Â
Also:
Surah 3 verse 3
â€ÂHe (Allah) hath revealed unto thee the Scripture with Truth, confirming that which was before it even as He (Allah) revealed the Torah and the Gospel (Bible).â€Â
You might also want to read about the additional definitions of the name of Allah at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah for even more alternative views.
So perhaps the Christian Community should NOT be using the term “Allah†in their Alkitab, even though Khadijah’s cousin, Waraqah (Christian Pastor), had been preaching Christianity using the same name of “Allah†from his Arabic Talmud/Torah and his Injil/ Kitab (book of Matthew only). Although the Christian community may be historically correct when using the term “Allahâ€Â, they may face some inferred “paganistic conflicts†as the term “Allah†also has female connotations in the Sanskrit origin of its derivative. They should instead be adhering to either Yahweh, Yehovah among the many other names of God so as to be more theologically "accurate". Christianity after all, insist that their God is a He.
Final Word, IMHO, Christians should NOT use the term “Allah†in their Alkitab or any other publication when referring to their God.
“Uncle†Pak Lah, maybe you should have let the “INTER-FAITH†Conference proceed instead of canceling it. Now you have a very confused nation. Each citizen not fully understanding one another’s religions. Leaving everyone in a very confused and sorry state.
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written by Admiral Tojo, January 15, 2008 11:09:34
written by Admiral Tojo, January 15, 2008 11:09:34
Ponder this;
Buddha was a hindu and rebelled against hinduism and never was a buddhist, Jesus was a Jew who wanted to bring his people back to the teaching of Moses and never was a Christian. Muhammad is a virtual Arab created character that does not exist in Quran but in folklores and myths of the Persian writers such as Bukhari, Muslim etc. Abraham rebelled against the religion of his own father. They ALL advised their people to DROP religions like a HOT Brick.
So how? Still confused???
Shalom
Buddha was a hindu and rebelled against hinduism and never was a buddhist, Jesus was a Jew who wanted to bring his people back to the teaching of Moses and never was a Christian. Muhammad is a virtual Arab created character that does not exist in Quran but in folklores and myths of the Persian writers such as Bukhari, Muslim etc. Abraham rebelled against the religion of his own father. They ALL advised their people to DROP religions like a HOT Brick.
So how? Still confused???
Shalom
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written by antiilluminati, January 15, 2008 02:38:05
written by antiilluminati, January 15, 2008 02:38:05
I am no surprise that Christian annoited Prohpet Muhammad. John the Baptist baptised Jesus or whatever of interreligion path ever comes across. In the hosue of God, everyone is equal.
The hipocrisy surrounding Islam must be addressed fast by Muslims itself. I am no Muslim but i know Islam is a great religion but the way bad muslims behave and act with such narrow mind. I do believe Islam will not be around in the future. To discuss on Islamic issues if you are not Muslim is not possible so i urge my Good Muslims brothers of my different faith to act accordingly.
During my younger days, i used to date Muslim gals, religion did not poised a problem between us but there is a problem with the society and papers. Today, i end up marrying a Christian wife, blessed with 2 beautiful kids. In the context of religion on paper i am a Buddhist, wife christians, kid's are buddhist whom i named after great hindu gods. We as a whole family somtimes go to Churches, Temples, Kuils and Buddhist Monastry to pay respect to great teachers - you named Buddha, Jesus etc, living saints/monk, saints, catholic, whatever you name it except we haven't to the Mosque. As much as i love to go there but the sensitivies surrounding it prevent us from getting there. I am not sure we will be able to do so if i married the Muslim girl. I am sure our life will be dictat by stupid mand made Fatwas.
Nevertheless without going to the Mosque, we still had chance to pay respect to Prophet Muhammad cos in most Chinese association's alter, it recognised the existense of such ever great person before. The names of Muhammad along with Buddha and others great "nabis" were placed high in the altar's wall. This instance, like it a not, Muhammad is not for the exclusively for the muslims only, it is for the Chinese as well that is why you find the names of Muhammad held high in their association ( they call it tek koa hoi ). To the narrow minded and bad muslims, what have you to say.
To the bad muslims, i dun see any benefits to reserve the term Allah exclusively. Again, this is another plain stupidity you can only find in Malaysia only. Stop behaving like 3 year old kid. This reminds me of my 3 year old that i ( Dad ) only belongs exclusively to him. I had my laugh inside. What about his sister. So i end up being PAPA to him and DADDY to my 4 years old.
The hipocrisy surrounding Islam must be addressed fast by Muslims itself. I am no Muslim but i know Islam is a great religion but the way bad muslims behave and act with such narrow mind. I do believe Islam will not be around in the future. To discuss on Islamic issues if you are not Muslim is not possible so i urge my Good Muslims brothers of my different faith to act accordingly.
During my younger days, i used to date Muslim gals, religion did not poised a problem between us but there is a problem with the society and papers. Today, i end up marrying a Christian wife, blessed with 2 beautiful kids. In the context of religion on paper i am a Buddhist, wife christians, kid's are buddhist whom i named after great hindu gods. We as a whole family somtimes go to Churches, Temples, Kuils and Buddhist Monastry to pay respect to great teachers - you named Buddha, Jesus etc, living saints/monk, saints, catholic, whatever you name it except we haven't to the Mosque. As much as i love to go there but the sensitivies surrounding it prevent us from getting there. I am not sure we will be able to do so if i married the Muslim girl. I am sure our life will be dictat by stupid mand made Fatwas.
Nevertheless without going to the Mosque, we still had chance to pay respect to Prophet Muhammad cos in most Chinese association's alter, it recognised the existense of such ever great person before. The names of Muhammad along with Buddha and others great "nabis" were placed high in the altar's wall. This instance, like it a not, Muhammad is not for the exclusively for the muslims only, it is for the Chinese as well that is why you find the names of Muhammad held high in their association ( they call it tek koa hoi ). To the narrow minded and bad muslims, what have you to say.
To the bad muslims, i dun see any benefits to reserve the term Allah exclusively. Again, this is another plain stupidity you can only find in Malaysia only. Stop behaving like 3 year old kid. This reminds me of my 3 year old that i ( Dad ) only belongs exclusively to him. I had my laugh inside. What about his sister. So i end up being PAPA to him and DADDY to my 4 years old.
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written by MoveForward, January 12, 2008 16:51:31
written by MoveForward, January 12, 2008 16:51:31
The controversy has exposed what an embarrassingly narrow worldview our leaders hold. Though I largely agree with RPK's views on the issue, I would not agree that Khadijah's cousin who annointed Muhammad was a "learned" Christian. If he had been one, his response to the revelations received would have been quite different. Though the Bible (having come first) does not specifically discuss the Quran the way the Quran discusses the Bible, the Christians in Muhammad's days were already in possession of a completed Bible for the last 600 years and had clear guidance on the issue of supernatural revelations.
Christians were specifically instructed by the apostle Paul that, "even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned" [Galatians 1:8] Further, Christians were commanded to "not believe every spirit but to test the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."[1 John 4:1]. The test of recognizing the Spirit of God was that the "spirit acknowledges that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. [1 John 4:2-6]
Thus, a supernatural revelation cannot in itself be accepted by a Christian as being from God unless it confirms the biblical Scriptures already revealed beforehand. The Bible had already been completely written and compiled in the 1st century, long before Muhammad's time. God's plans for the salvation of mankind had already been long perfected. There was nothing else in the Bible that needed to be completed or re-written. By Biblical standards, God always reveals to mankind His plans and purposes long before He moves. The God of the Bible does not contradict Himself or change His laws, but brings confirmation after confirmation, over the centuries, of what He intends to do. Thus, though the Bible is made of 66 books, written over a span of 1,500 years, by over 40 authors (as inspired by the Spirit of God) in 3 different continents and in 3 languages, there is but a single thread of consistency running through the entire Bible, from the beginning to the end.
In any event, Christianity is not so much about head knowledge of some religious texts than it is about a living relationship with the Almighty God. A person who has a living relationship with God is given the Holy Spirit as his counsellor and guide. It is the Spirit of God within him that enables him to discern the truth from what is not. It is a relationship that is alive where the privilege is given to mankind to draw near to His creator God and to commune with Him and hear His voice each day for all areas of our lives. If Khadijah's cousin had been one who truly knew the God of the Bible, he would have been led by the Holy Spirit in accordance with Scriptures.
Christians were specifically instructed by the apostle Paul that, "even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned" [Galatians 1:8] Further, Christians were commanded to "not believe every spirit but to test the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."[1 John 4:1]. The test of recognizing the Spirit of God was that the "spirit acknowledges that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. [1 John 4:2-6]
Thus, a supernatural revelation cannot in itself be accepted by a Christian as being from God unless it confirms the biblical Scriptures already revealed beforehand. The Bible had already been completely written and compiled in the 1st century, long before Muhammad's time. God's plans for the salvation of mankind had already been long perfected. There was nothing else in the Bible that needed to be completed or re-written. By Biblical standards, God always reveals to mankind His plans and purposes long before He moves. The God of the Bible does not contradict Himself or change His laws, but brings confirmation after confirmation, over the centuries, of what He intends to do. Thus, though the Bible is made of 66 books, written over a span of 1,500 years, by over 40 authors (as inspired by the Spirit of God) in 3 different continents and in 3 languages, there is but a single thread of consistency running through the entire Bible, from the beginning to the end.
In any event, Christianity is not so much about head knowledge of some religious texts than it is about a living relationship with the Almighty God. A person who has a living relationship with God is given the Holy Spirit as his counsellor and guide. It is the Spirit of God within him that enables him to discern the truth from what is not. It is a relationship that is alive where the privilege is given to mankind to draw near to His creator God and to commune with Him and hear His voice each day for all areas of our lives. If Khadijah's cousin had been one who truly knew the God of the Bible, he would have been led by the Holy Spirit in accordance with Scriptures.
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written by Msia Negarakuku, January 12, 2008 16:27:01
written by Msia Negarakuku, January 12, 2008 16:27:01
dreadloxking,
hahaha...that is how religion SCREW people brain.
hahaha...that is how religion SCREW people brain.
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written by dreadloxking, January 12, 2008 12:37:28
written by dreadloxking, January 12, 2008 12:37:28
Salam. Yes,I did say 'guess' but the fact is I'm not guessing. And I don't have to explain by copy & paste from other website. Like I said you have something that I don't know and I have something that you don't know. I know the tafsir of Ibnu Kathir. I'm not saying I memorize all hadeeths. If I do, my place is not here, but on top, to guide the people. But you have to be very extra careful, there is a lot of hadeeth mawdu'at...hundreds of thousands. Even Imam Bukhari & Imam Muslim also recorded a lot of that kinda hadeeths.
I don't celebrate Muharram but I commemorate Muharram. How about you?
I don't celebrate Muharram but I commemorate Muharram. How about you?
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 11, 2008 12:34:11
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 11, 2008 12:34:11
dreadloxking....
i suggest you read the whole history of Muhammad (saw) before you come to that conculsion without support by any fact but just your guessing. read the history of Hudaibiah aggrement ..... "If I'm the city of knowledge, so Ali is the door (of the city of knowledge)".... you got it wrong man ..... you misunderstand what Muhammad (saw) mean.
The Honor and Nobility of Man is in His Knowledge
These Ayat inform of the beginning of man's creation from a dangling clot, and that out of Allah's generosity He taught man that which he did not know. Thus, Allah exalted him and honored him by giving him knowledge, and it is the dignity that the Father of Humanity, Adam, was distinguished with over the angels. Knowledge sometimes is in the mind, sometimes on the tongue, and sometimes in writing with the fingers. Thus, it may be intellectual, spoken and written. And while the last (written) necessitates the first two (intellectual and spoken), the reverse is not true. For this reason Allah says,
[اقْرَØ
£Ù’ وَرَبÙ�
?ÙÂÙƒÙŽ الاٌّÙ
ƒÙ’رَمÙ�
? - الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ عَلَّÙ
…ÙŽ بÙÂالْÙ
‚ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ…Ù?
? - عَلَّÙ
…ÙŽ الإÙÂÙ†ØÂ
³Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã™â€ ÙŽ مَا لَمْ يَعْلÃ??
?ŽÙ…Ù’ ]
(Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous. Who has taught by the pen. He has taught man that which he knew not.) There is a narration that states, "Record knowledge by writing.'' There is also a saying which states, "Whoever acts according to what he knows, Allah will make him inherit knowledge that he did not know.''
[كَلاّ�
??Ž Ø¥ÙÂنَّ الإÙÂÙ†ØÂ
³Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã™â€ ÙŽ Ù„ÙŽÙŠÙŽØ·Ùâ?
??™Ã˜ÂºÃ™Å½Ã™â€° - أَنرَّءَا?
?™â€¡Ã™Â اسْتَغ?
?™â€™Ã™â€ ÙŽÙ‰ - Ø¥ÙÂنَّ Ø¥ÙÂÙ„ÙŽÙ‰ رَبّÙÂÙÆ??
?ÙŽ الرّÙÂØÂ
¬Ã™â€™Ã˜Â¹Ã™Å½Ã™â€° - أَرَأَÃ??
?ŠÙ’تَ الَّذÙ?
?ى يَنْه
َى - عَبْدا?
?™â€¹ Ø¥ÙÂذَا صَلَّÙ
‰ - أَرَءَ�?
?ŠÙ’تَ Ø¥ÙÂنكَانَ عَلَى الْهÙÂ?
?˜Â¯Ã™Å½Ã™â€° - أَوْ أَمَرَ
بÙÂالتÙâ€
˜Ã™Å½Ã™â€šÃ™â€™Ã™Ë†Ã™Å½
ى - أَرَءَ�?
?ŠÙ’تَ Ø¥ÙÂنكَذَّØÂ?
?َ وَتَوَ
لَّى - Ø£ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ…Ù
’ يَعْل�?
?ŽÙ… بÙÂØ£ÙŽÙ†Ùâ??
?˜Ã™Å½ اللَّÃ
™â€¡Ã™Å½ يَرَى - كَلاّÃ??
?Ž لَئÙÂنلَّمÙâ€
™ يَنتَÙâ?
??¡Ã™Â لَنَسÙ
’ÙÂَعاً بÙÂالنÙ?
?€˜Ã™Å½Ã˜Â§Ã˜ÂµÃ™ÂÙŠÙ?
?½Ã˜Â©Ã™Â - نَاصÙÂÙÅ
َة٠كَـذÙÂØÂ?
?َة٠خَاطÙÂئÙ
ŽØ©Ù - ÙÂَلْيÃ?
??ŽØ¯Ù’ع٠نَادÙÂÙÅ
َه٠- سَنَدÙâ??
?™Ã˜Â¹Ã™Â الزَّØÂ
¨Ã™Å½Ã˜Â§Ã™â€ ÙÂÙŠÙ?
?½Ã˜Â©Ã™Å½ - كَلاّÃ??
?Ž لاَ تÙÂØ·ÙÂعْ
ه٠وَاسْ�
?ÙÂدْ وَاقْÃ?
?ªÙŽØ±ÙÂب ]
(6. Nay! Verily, man does transgress.) (7. Because he considers himself self-sufficient.) (8. Surely, unto your Lord is the return.) (9. Have you seen him who prevents) (10. A servant when he prays) (11. Have you seen if he is on the guidance) (12. Or enjoins Taqwa) (13. Have you seen if he denies and turns away) (14. Knows he not that Allah sees) (15. Nay! If he ceases not, We will scorch his forehead --) (16. A lying, sinful forehead!) (17. Then let him call upon his council.) (18. We will call out the guards of Hell!) (19. Nay! Do not obey him. Fall prostrate and draw near (to Allah)!)
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=96&tid=58740
this is tafsir from ibnu kathir ...... the well known islamic scholar ...... before you said something about him...... study him first .... and bring a fact not guessing and believe without fact........ Islam didn't teach that way .......
i suggest you read the whole history of Muhammad (saw) before you come to that conculsion without support by any fact but just your guessing. read the history of Hudaibiah aggrement ..... "If I'm the city of knowledge, so Ali is the door (of the city of knowledge)".... you got it wrong man ..... you misunderstand what Muhammad (saw) mean.
The Honor and Nobility of Man is in His Knowledge
These Ayat inform of the beginning of man's creation from a dangling clot, and that out of Allah's generosity He taught man that which he did not know. Thus, Allah exalted him and honored him by giving him knowledge, and it is the dignity that the Father of Humanity, Adam, was distinguished with over the angels. Knowledge sometimes is in the mind, sometimes on the tongue, and sometimes in writing with the fingers. Thus, it may be intellectual, spoken and written. And while the last (written) necessitates the first two (intellectual and spoken), the reverse is not true. For this reason Allah says,
[اقْرَØ
£Ù’ وَرَبÙ�
?ÙÂÙƒÙŽ الاٌّÙ
ƒÙ’رَمÙ�
? - الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ عَلَّÙ
…ÙŽ بÙÂالْÙ
‚ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ…Ù?
? - عَلَّÙ
…ÙŽ الإÙÂÙ†ØÂ
³Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã™â€ ÙŽ مَا لَمْ يَعْلÃ??
?ŽÙ…Ù’ ]
(Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous. Who has taught by the pen. He has taught man that which he knew not.) There is a narration that states, "Record knowledge by writing.'' There is also a saying which states, "Whoever acts according to what he knows, Allah will make him inherit knowledge that he did not know.''
[كَلاّ�
??Ž Ø¥ÙÂنَّ الإÙÂÙ†ØÂ
³Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã™â€ ÙŽ Ù„ÙŽÙŠÙŽØ·Ùâ?
??™Ã˜ÂºÃ™Å½Ã™â€° - أَنرَّءَا?
?™â€¡Ã™Â اسْتَغ?
?™â€™Ã™â€ ÙŽÙ‰ - Ø¥ÙÂنَّ Ø¥ÙÂÙ„ÙŽÙ‰ رَبّÙÂÙÆ??
?ÙŽ الرّÙÂØÂ
¬Ã™â€™Ã˜Â¹Ã™Å½Ã™â€° - أَرَأَÃ??
?ŠÙ’تَ الَّذÙ?
?ى يَنْه
َى - عَبْدا?
?™â€¹ Ø¥ÙÂذَا صَلَّÙ
‰ - أَرَءَ�?
?ŠÙ’تَ Ø¥ÙÂنكَانَ عَلَى الْهÙÂ?
?˜Â¯Ã™Å½Ã™â€° - أَوْ أَمَرَ
بÙÂالتÙâ€
˜Ã™Å½Ã™â€šÃ™â€™Ã™Ë†Ã™Å½
ى - أَرَءَ�?
?ŠÙ’تَ Ø¥ÙÂنكَذَّØÂ?
?َ وَتَوَ
لَّى - Ø£ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ…Ù
’ يَعْل�?
?ŽÙ… بÙÂØ£ÙŽÙ†Ùâ??
?˜Ã™Å½ اللَّÃ
™â€¡Ã™Å½ يَرَى - كَلاّÃ??
?Ž لَئÙÂنلَّمÙâ€
™ يَنتَÙâ?
??¡Ã™Â لَنَسÙ
’ÙÂَعاً بÙÂالنÙ?
?€˜Ã™Å½Ã˜Â§Ã˜ÂµÃ™ÂÙŠÙ?
?½Ã˜Â©Ã™Â - نَاصÙÂÙÅ
َة٠كَـذÙÂØÂ?
?َة٠خَاطÙÂئÙ
ŽØ©Ù - ÙÂَلْيÃ?
??ŽØ¯Ù’ع٠نَادÙÂÙÅ
َه٠- سَنَدÙâ??
?™Ã˜Â¹Ã™Â الزَّØÂ
¨Ã™Å½Ã˜Â§Ã™â€ ÙÂÙŠÙ?
?½Ã˜Â©Ã™Å½ - كَلاّÃ??
?Ž لاَ تÙÂØ·ÙÂعْ
ه٠وَاسْ�
?ÙÂدْ وَاقْÃ?
?ªÙŽØ±ÙÂب ]
(6. Nay! Verily, man does transgress.) (7. Because he considers himself self-sufficient.) (8. Surely, unto your Lord is the return.) (9. Have you seen him who prevents) (10. A servant when he prays) (11. Have you seen if he is on the guidance) (12. Or enjoins Taqwa) (13. Have you seen if he denies and turns away) (14. Knows he not that Allah sees) (15. Nay! If he ceases not, We will scorch his forehead --) (16. A lying, sinful forehead!) (17. Then let him call upon his council.) (18. We will call out the guards of Hell!) (19. Nay! Do not obey him. Fall prostrate and draw near (to Allah)!)
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=96&tid=58740
this is tafsir from ibnu kathir ...... the well known islamic scholar ...... before you said something about him...... study him first .... and bring a fact not guessing and believe without fact........ Islam didn't teach that way .......
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written by dreadloxking, January 11, 2008 11:32:27
written by dreadloxking, January 11, 2008 11:32:27
taliban di padang pasir. As i said i'm not a good person. Some facts which I don't know,you know. And what I know, maybe you don't know. I believe Muhammad (PBUH) at that time,was overshocked/electrocuted as that was the first time he met Gabriel. You can find many stories,when Gabriel descended from the sky to reveal the verses (surah/ayat) of Koran,no matter when he was praying (he was sweating, sometimes he took a long time to complete his 'sujud' before tasyahud),he was riding camel (that camel suddenly stops,sits,unable to move) and many more. There are differences to say "TIDAK PANDAI BACA" or "TIDAK BOLEH BACA". Think about it.
And you said this >>> "So the christian and jews could not say that Muhammad had read their Book and form a new religion....". Well, I believe Muhammad (PBUH) had read all the books. As Ali bin Abi Tholib a.s did. If Ali did, what about Muhammad (PBUH)? I guess more than that. Muhammad (PBUH) used to say,"If I'm the city of knowledge, so Ali is the door (of the city of knowledge)". Got what I mean?
These people, Jews & Christianity didn't form new religion. But they made changes to their books & divided themselves to many 'mazhab',likewise the Muslims. Muhammad (PBUH) used to say,"During the time before Yaumul Qiamat (akhir zaman), Jews will be divided into 71 madzhabs, Christians into 72 & Muslims into 73 madzhabs. There's only one way will bring all of you to the right (straight) path" (which he (PBUH) referred to his Ahlulbayt descendants).
So,the Jews & Christians are still the 'Ahlulkitab' like told in Koran. Wassalam brother. Peace & Love!
And you said this >>> "So the christian and jews could not say that Muhammad had read their Book and form a new religion....". Well, I believe Muhammad (PBUH) had read all the books. As Ali bin Abi Tholib a.s did. If Ali did, what about Muhammad (PBUH)? I guess more than that. Muhammad (PBUH) used to say,"If I'm the city of knowledge, so Ali is the door (of the city of knowledge)". Got what I mean?
These people, Jews & Christianity didn't form new religion. But they made changes to their books & divided themselves to many 'mazhab',likewise the Muslims. Muhammad (PBUH) used to say,"During the time before Yaumul Qiamat (akhir zaman), Jews will be divided into 71 madzhabs, Christians into 72 & Muslims into 73 madzhabs. There's only one way will bring all of you to the right (straight) path" (which he (PBUH) referred to his Ahlulbayt descendants).
So,the Jews & Christians are still the 'Ahlulkitab' like told in Koran. Wassalam brother. Peace & Love!
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written by Msia Negarakuku, January 11, 2008 09:06:40
written by Msia Negarakuku, January 11, 2008 09:06:40
I am sorry for you guys because you always fight about your religion tills kingdom come about who is right and who is wrong. All your information is from books and it was written. For your information, Islam, Judaism and Christianity are from the same family and yet these are the people who create misery to the world and still fighting, Sigh... you guys are caught in this game. 
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 10, 2008 14:22:41
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 10, 2008 14:22:41
dreadloxking
you said that prophet Muhammad could read..... from were you get this fact? you said " So, to say that Muhammad (PBUH) couldn't READ,is a CONTEMPTATION (Penghinaan)!" it's not a contemptation it is to prove that the koran is from Allah not from Muhammad... So the christian and jews could not say that Muhammad had read their Book and form a new religion.... This is what are they are traying to say... you can find itin their web.....
The Beginning of the Prophethood of Muhammad and the First of the Qur'an revealed
Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said: The first thing that began happening with the Messenger of Allah from the revelation was dreams that he would see in his sleep that would come true. He would not see any dream except that it would come true just like the (clearness of) the daybreak in the morning. Then seclusion became beloved to him. So, he used to go to the cave of Hira' and devote himself to worship there for a number of nights, and he would bring provisions for that. Then he would return to Khadijah and replenish his provisions for a similar number of nights. This continued until the revelation suddenly came to him while he was in the cave of Hira'. The angel came to him while he was in the cave and said, "Read!'' The Messen- ger of Allah said,
«ÙÂÙŽÙ‚ÙÂÙâ
€žÃ™â€™Ã˜ÂªÃ™Â: مَا أَنَا بÙÂقَار?
?™Âىء»
(I replied: "I am not one who reads.) Then he said, "So he (the angel) seized me and pressed me until I could no longer bear it. Then he released me and said: `Read!' So I replied: `I am not one who reads.' So, he pressed me a second time until I could no longer bear it. Then he released me and said:
[اقْرَØ
£Ù’ بÙÂاسْÙâ??
?¦Ã™Â رَبّÙÂÙÆ??
?ÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ خَلَقÙ
Ž ]
(Read in the Name of your Lord who has created.) until he reached the Ayah,
[مَا لَمْ يَعْل�?
?ŽÙ…Ù’]
(That which he knew not. )'' So he returned with them (those Ayat) and with his heart trembling until he came (home) to Khadijah, and he said,
«زَمّÙ
ÂÙ„ÙÂونÙÂ?
?يزَمّÙÂÙ
„ÙÂونÙÂÙÅ?
?»
(Wrap me up, wrap me up!) So they wrapped him up until his fear went away. After that he told Khadijah everything that had happened (and said),
«قَدْ خَشÙÂيتÃ??
? Ø¹ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ‰ Ù†ÙŽÙÂْسÃ??
?Âي»
(I fear that something may happen to me.) Khadijah replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your relatives, you speak the truth, you help the poor and the destitute, you serve your guests generously, and you help the deserving, calamity afflicted people.'' Khadijah then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Nawfal bin Asad bin `Abdul-`Uzza bin Qusay, who, during the period of ignorance became a Christian and used to scribe the Scriptures in Arabic. He would write from the Injil in Hebrew as much as Allah willed for him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadijah said to him, "O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew.'' Waraqah asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen'' Allah's Messenger described what he saw. Waraqah said, "This is An-Namus whom Allah had sent to Musa. I wish I was young and could live until the time when your people would drive you out.'' Allah's Messenger asked,
«أَوَ Ù…ÙÂخْرÙ
ÂجÙÂيَّ Ù‡ÙÂمْ؟?
?‚»
(Will they drive me out) Waraqah replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone who came with something similar to what you have brought, was treated with hostility and enmity; and if I should remain alive till that day then I would firmly support you.'' But Waraqah did not remain. He died and the revelation paused until Allah's Messenger became sad according to what we were told. Due to this grief he set out a number of times with the intent of throwing himself from the mountain tops. However, every time he would reach the peak of a mountain to throw himself from it, Jibril would appear to him and say, "O Muhammad! You are truly the Messenger of Allah!'' Therefore, his worry would be eased, his soul would be settled and he would return (down from the mountain). Then, when the revelation did not come again for a long time, he set out as he had done before. So when he reached the peak of the mountain, Jibril appeared to him again and said to him the same as he had said before.'' This Hadith has been recorded in the Two Sahihs by way of Az-Zuhri. We have already discussed this Hadith's chain of narration, its text and its meanings at length in the beginning of our explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhari. Therefore, whoever would like to read it, it is researched there, and all praise and blessings are due to Allah. So the first thing that was revealed of the Qur'an were these noble and blessed Ayat. They are the first mercy that Allah bestowed upon His servants and the first bounty that Allah favored them with.
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=96&tid=58726
you said that prophet Muhammad could read..... from were you get this fact? you said " So, to say that Muhammad (PBUH) couldn't READ,is a CONTEMPTATION (Penghinaan)!" it's not a contemptation it is to prove that the koran is from Allah not from Muhammad... So the christian and jews could not say that Muhammad had read their Book and form a new religion.... This is what are they are traying to say... you can find itin their web.....
The Beginning of the Prophethood of Muhammad and the First of the Qur'an revealed
Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said: The first thing that began happening with the Messenger of Allah from the revelation was dreams that he would see in his sleep that would come true. He would not see any dream except that it would come true just like the (clearness of) the daybreak in the morning. Then seclusion became beloved to him. So, he used to go to the cave of Hira' and devote himself to worship there for a number of nights, and he would bring provisions for that. Then he would return to Khadijah and replenish his provisions for a similar number of nights. This continued until the revelation suddenly came to him while he was in the cave of Hira'. The angel came to him while he was in the cave and said, "Read!'' The Messen- ger of Allah said,
«ÙÂÙŽÙ‚ÙÂÙâ
€žÃ™â€™Ã˜ÂªÃ™Â: مَا أَنَا بÙÂقَار?
?™Âىء»
(I replied: "I am not one who reads.) Then he said, "So he (the angel) seized me and pressed me until I could no longer bear it. Then he released me and said: `Read!' So I replied: `I am not one who reads.' So, he pressed me a second time until I could no longer bear it. Then he released me and said:
[اقْرَØ
£Ù’ بÙÂاسْÙâ??
?¦Ã™Â رَبّÙÂÙÆ??
?ÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ خَلَقÙ
Ž ]
(Read in the Name of your Lord who has created.) until he reached the Ayah,
[مَا لَمْ يَعْل�?
?ŽÙ…Ù’]
(That which he knew not. )'' So he returned with them (those Ayat) and with his heart trembling until he came (home) to Khadijah, and he said,
«زَمّÙ
ÂÙ„ÙÂونÙÂ?
?يزَمّÙÂÙ
„ÙÂونÙÂÙÅ?
?»
(Wrap me up, wrap me up!) So they wrapped him up until his fear went away. After that he told Khadijah everything that had happened (and said),
«قَدْ خَشÙÂيتÃ??
? Ø¹ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ‰ Ù†ÙŽÙÂْسÃ??
?Âي»
(I fear that something may happen to me.) Khadijah replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your relatives, you speak the truth, you help the poor and the destitute, you serve your guests generously, and you help the deserving, calamity afflicted people.'' Khadijah then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Nawfal bin Asad bin `Abdul-`Uzza bin Qusay, who, during the period of ignorance became a Christian and used to scribe the Scriptures in Arabic. He would write from the Injil in Hebrew as much as Allah willed for him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadijah said to him, "O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew.'' Waraqah asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen'' Allah's Messenger described what he saw. Waraqah said, "This is An-Namus whom Allah had sent to Musa. I wish I was young and could live until the time when your people would drive you out.'' Allah's Messenger asked,
«أَوَ Ù…ÙÂخْرÙ
ÂجÙÂيَّ Ù‡ÙÂمْ؟?
?‚»
(Will they drive me out) Waraqah replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone who came with something similar to what you have brought, was treated with hostility and enmity; and if I should remain alive till that day then I would firmly support you.'' But Waraqah did not remain. He died and the revelation paused until Allah's Messenger became sad according to what we were told. Due to this grief he set out a number of times with the intent of throwing himself from the mountain tops. However, every time he would reach the peak of a mountain to throw himself from it, Jibril would appear to him and say, "O Muhammad! You are truly the Messenger of Allah!'' Therefore, his worry would be eased, his soul would be settled and he would return (down from the mountain). Then, when the revelation did not come again for a long time, he set out as he had done before. So when he reached the peak of the mountain, Jibril appeared to him again and said to him the same as he had said before.'' This Hadith has been recorded in the Two Sahihs by way of Az-Zuhri. We have already discussed this Hadith's chain of narration, its text and its meanings at length in the beginning of our explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhari. Therefore, whoever would like to read it, it is researched there, and all praise and blessings are due to Allah. So the first thing that was revealed of the Qur'an were these noble and blessed Ayat. They are the first mercy that Allah bestowed upon His servants and the first bounty that Allah favored them with.
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=96&tid=58726
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written by Malas-yu, January 10, 2008 11:30:56
written by Malas-yu, January 10, 2008 11:30:56
The above story is so similar to the story in the Bible where Mary seeks the counsel of her cousin Elizabeth when Mary is told about the birth of Jesus.
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written by cmoon, January 09, 2008 14:05:38
written by cmoon, January 09, 2008 14:05:38
BE PROUD OF iSLAM FOR WHAT IT TRULY STANDS FOR MY DEAR BROTHERS OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH!
The Quran lays down that all men should cultivate the sense of unity, of interdependence, of
selfless love and of the immanence of Divinity. Generally, all men take food of some kind or
other for the body five times a day: an .early cup of coffee in bed, breakfast two hours later, a
heavy lunch at noon, tea at four and a fat dinner at nine. Islam prescribes food for the spiritual
nature of man and directs that it be taken five times a day, as prayer. For the arousal of the
Aathmic consciousness, for earning spiritual joy and for promoting the manifestation of Aathmic
illumination, prayer is prescribed as many as five times a day, from the dawn of discretion up to
the moment of death.
Unity is the basic teaching of every religion
Prayer, in Islam, is also a congregational activity. Prayer in a group produces beneficial
vibrations. Islam promises a greater flow of ecstasy when God is adored by a huge concourse of
yearning: hearts. All of them bow low at the sight of the Masjid. They sit in rows on their bended
knees and lean forward until their palms and foreheads touch the ground in humble submission
to God’s Will. Misunderstanding, conflict and enmity should not disturb the serenity of the
occasion.
Thus Islam emphasises the One in the Many, the urge for God which manifests in various
degrees in various minds. Unity is the basic teaching of every religion. Faith in Unity is cardinal.
Without it, no system of belief and conduct can be a religion. God is One and the teachings in all
faiths that exalt Him are all on Love, Compassion, Tolerance and Sympathy. The tragedy is
neither the Muhammadans, nor the Hindhus, nor the followers of other religions are practising
these qualities in daily life.
Islam teaches that God's Grace can be won through justice and righteous living; wealth,
scholarship and power cannot earn It. Holy Love alone can please the Lord. This is the message
of every religion. But mankind has ignored this crucial point. Ramzan brings together in bonds
of love kith and kin, near and far, friend and foe. This type of negligence is happening in every
religion. The followers adopt the rules they like and break those which they find exacting. So,
they become narrow-minded and crooked. And, they rationalise their defects and justify their
failings. They have become habituated to this practice of self-deceit.
Demonstrate love and tolerance in daily activity
Since Islam means surrender to God, all who in a spirit of surrender and dedication, live in peace
and harmony in society, do really speaking, belong to Islam. Islam insists on full co-ordination
between thought, word and deed. Muslim holy men and sages have been emphasising that we
must inquire into the validity of the 'I' which feels it is the body and the 'I' which feels it is the
mind and reach the conclusion that the real 'I' is the Self yearning for the Omniself, God. The
Ramzan month, the fast and the prayers are designed to awaken and manifest this realisation.
Whichever may be the religion, its emphasis is on unity, harmony, equal-mindedness. Therefore,
cultivate love, tolerance and compassion, and demonstrate the Truth in every daily activity.
Discourse on Ramzan, Prashaanthi Nilayam, 12-7-1983 SAI BABA
The Quran lays down that all men should cultivate the sense of unity, of interdependence, of
selfless love and of the immanence of Divinity. Generally, all men take food of some kind or
other for the body five times a day: an .early cup of coffee in bed, breakfast two hours later, a
heavy lunch at noon, tea at four and a fat dinner at nine. Islam prescribes food for the spiritual
nature of man and directs that it be taken five times a day, as prayer. For the arousal of the
Aathmic consciousness, for earning spiritual joy and for promoting the manifestation of Aathmic
illumination, prayer is prescribed as many as five times a day, from the dawn of discretion up to
the moment of death.
Unity is the basic teaching of every religion
Prayer, in Islam, is also a congregational activity. Prayer in a group produces beneficial
vibrations. Islam promises a greater flow of ecstasy when God is adored by a huge concourse of
yearning: hearts. All of them bow low at the sight of the Masjid. They sit in rows on their bended
knees and lean forward until their palms and foreheads touch the ground in humble submission
to God’s Will. Misunderstanding, conflict and enmity should not disturb the serenity of the
occasion.
Thus Islam emphasises the One in the Many, the urge for God which manifests in various
degrees in various minds. Unity is the basic teaching of every religion. Faith in Unity is cardinal.
Without it, no system of belief and conduct can be a religion. God is One and the teachings in all
faiths that exalt Him are all on Love, Compassion, Tolerance and Sympathy. The tragedy is
neither the Muhammadans, nor the Hindhus, nor the followers of other religions are practising
these qualities in daily life.
Islam teaches that God's Grace can be won through justice and righteous living; wealth,
scholarship and power cannot earn It. Holy Love alone can please the Lord. This is the message
of every religion. But mankind has ignored this crucial point. Ramzan brings together in bonds
of love kith and kin, near and far, friend and foe. This type of negligence is happening in every
religion. The followers adopt the rules they like and break those which they find exacting. So,
they become narrow-minded and crooked. And, they rationalise their defects and justify their
failings. They have become habituated to this practice of self-deceit.
Demonstrate love and tolerance in daily activity
Since Islam means surrender to God, all who in a spirit of surrender and dedication, live in peace
and harmony in society, do really speaking, belong to Islam. Islam insists on full co-ordination
between thought, word and deed. Muslim holy men and sages have been emphasising that we
must inquire into the validity of the 'I' which feels it is the body and the 'I' which feels it is the
mind and reach the conclusion that the real 'I' is the Self yearning for the Omniself, God. The
Ramzan month, the fast and the prayers are designed to awaken and manifest this realisation.
Whichever may be the religion, its emphasis is on unity, harmony, equal-mindedness. Therefore,
cultivate love, tolerance and compassion, and demonstrate the Truth in every daily activity.
Discourse on Ramzan, Prashaanthi Nilayam, 12-7-1983 SAI BABA
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written by Presiden Mesia, January 09, 2008 09:15:56
written by Presiden Mesia, January 09, 2008 09:15:56
Kristian dan Yahudi bukan ahlul kitab sebab depa dah ubah injil menjadi bible...Taurat pun dah ubah, ahlulkitab boleh kata dah tak ada lagi...kecuali penganut islam. Kalau adapun depa kena ikut islam sebab agama nasrani dan yahudi yg asal dah dimansuhkan sebab islam dah datang menggantikannya...
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written by dreadloxking, January 09, 2008 03:51:45
written by dreadloxking, January 09, 2008 03:51:45
Wow...a very good article. To me,very simple. Jews & Christians are 'Ahlulkitab' or People of the Book. They are existed in the Koran. The stories of these people were told in the Koran. Our ministers are idiots (sorry but I have to use these word) because simply they're politician, not the 'learned Muslims'. That's why they always misinterpret the Christians in this country. Err...RPK, I don't know whether it's true or not Muhammad's (PBUH) wife, Khadija did meet her cousin, a Christian, after he revealed to her he was commanded by Gabriel to read (I know this story has been told in Discovery Channel). But I think it will be nice if you give example like when he (Muhammad PBUH) and his uncle Abi Tholib a.s went to Syam and in the mid of journey,they met a Jew (a learned person or ulama',I forgot his name) & he saw the signs of 'kenabian' and advised Abi Tholib a.s to bring him back to Mecca a.s.a.p, worrying that Muhammad (PBUH) would be threatened by his community (Jews are known as murderers of prophets & messengers in Koran). It's also learnt,actually he (PBUH) could READ, but this fact has been deleted by the traitors of Islam like the khalifa of Umawiyya, who hated Muhammad's (PBUH) family very much. Simple,they tried so much to deny & to prove that Muhammad (PBUH) and his descendant are fallible. In fact, the signs of his 'kenabian' had been seen since the first day he was born! But his family members (Quraisy Hashimite) had to hide it because they worried he (PBUH) would be threatened and killed by the other tribes of Quraisy (well known as 'musyrikin jahiliah' or the Pagan Arabs). This story is similar like when Imam Muhammad Al-Mahdi a.s was hiding twice (by his parents, first since he was born and re-appeared when he was 7 yrs old, until 12 yrs old (329H) he disappeared again until now 2008 (1429H). And now we're waiting for his re-appearance. May Allah swt hasten his re-appearance). It's not weird to learn this 'hide' thing. Jesus (Isa Al-Masih a.s) was born in Nazareth, simple because his mother Mary or Maryam was worried of such threats she got from her community. So when she was still pregnant, she went to Nazareth to hide until she gave a born of Jesus (at the age of 30,he was ascended onto the sky). Same goes to Moses where his mother brought herself into a cave & was hiding until she gave a born of Moses. Do you know the story told in Koran about 'Ashabul Kahfi', they were hiding in a cave and with His power, they slept & woke up 1,000 yrs after? All these things happened because they have the signs of 'kenabian' (exclude Ashabul Kahfi), they could speak, they could read, they could show & prove to the people around them that they're the soon to be prophets & messengers, appointed by God (Allah swt). So, to say that Muhammad (PBUH) couldn't READ,is a CONTEMPTATION (Penghinaan)! Well RPK,I'm not a good person but I'm trying to give a fact in here. These are the things you must tell to the people, so that they will learn, read & understand the Koran. Not just singing the Koran like every year they do in Tilawah Al-Quran. Thank you!
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 08, 2008 01:12:46
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1654/9islaminbible.htm
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 08, 2008 01:12:46
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1654/9islaminbible.htm
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 08, 2008 01:04:33
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 08, 2008 01:04:33
Tafsir Al-Maidah ayat 73-75: Orang Kristian, Yahudi tidak upaya berhujah Tuan Guru Abdul Hadi Awang
Thu | Sep 20, 07 | 11:12:51 am MYT
Firman Allah yang bermaksud: "Dan jika sekiranya mereka tidak berhenti daripada apa yang mereka perkatakan." (Surah al-Maidah: 73)
Jika sekiranya mereka tidak berhenti mendakwa kononnya Allah itu satu daripada tiga unsur dan Isa al-Masih juga sebagai tuhan.
Allah berfirman yang bermaksud, "nescaya mesti akan mengenai akan orang-orang kafir di kalangan mereka, azab yang pedih." (Surah al-Maidah: 73)
Yang kafir di kalangan mereka mesti mengenai azab yang pedih. Mereka diberi amaran yang keras setelah diberi nasihat.
Memang orang Kristian dan Yahudi degil dalam masalah akidah. Apabila diajak berbincang mereka lari dan mereka tidak berani berdebat dalam masalah ketuhanan. Cuma mereka masuk ke kawasan pedalaman menyebarkan dakyah Kristian yang mana ramai di kalangan penduduk di kawasan berkenaan terdiri daripada orang jahil, miskin dan orang asli. Mereka boleh berbohong kepada masyarakat seumpama itu.
Sebaliknya mereka tidak boleh berhujah dan berdepan dengan masyarakat yang mempunyai ilmu pengetahuan. Mereka lari dan tidak berani berdepan dengan orang ramai di kawasan berkenaan. Banyak bukti dan keterangan menunjukkan bahawa mereka tidak berani berdepan dengan kebenaran.
Perkara ini berlaku termasuk di negara mereka sendiri iaitu England dan Amerika Syarikat. Paderi-paderi mereka tidak berani berhujah dengan orang Islam. Memang mereka tidak betul dalam perkara ini.
Bahkan orang Nasrani Najran yang berhujah dengan Nabi s.a.w. tidak berupaya berhujah. Apabila mereka diajak bermubahalah supaya Allah Taala menurunkan laknat ke atas siapa yang bohong. Bagaimanapun mereka menolak pelawaan itu. Bererti mereka sedar bahawa mereka tergolong di kalangan orang yang tidak benar.
Firman Allah yang bermaksud; "Apakah mereka itu tidak bertaubat kepada Allah dan memohon keampunan daripada-Nya dan Allah itu Maha Pengampun lagi Maha Penyayang." (Surah al-Maidah: 74)
Mengapa mereka tidak mengambil peluang daripada pintu taubat yang dibuka seluas-luasnya? Mereka tidak mengambil peluang daripada keampunan dan kemurahan Allah dengan mereka bertaubat, dengan memohon supaya Allah mengampunkan dosa mereka. Mengapa mereka degil dalam kekufuran itu?
Allah Taala bertanya kepada mereka dan ayat al-Quran dibacakan kepada mereka. Ada di kalangan mereka yang faham bahasa al-Quran kerana ada yang berbangsa Arab.
Ada juga Orientalis yang mengerti bahasa dan makna isi kandungan al-Quran. Apabila diajak masuk Islam mereka menolaknya kerana mereka mendakwa bahawa Allah Taala telah cap (tutupkan) hati mereka.
Ini adalah antara perangai orang Krisitian. Seterusnya Allah berfirman yang bermaksud, "Tiadalah al-Masih Ibnu Mariam itu melainkan dia seorang rasul yang diutuskan oleh Allah. Sesungguhnya telah berlalu sebelumnya rasul-rasul yang lain."(Surah al-Maidah: 75)
Isa bin Mariam adalah seorang rasul sebagaimana rasul-rasul yang lain yang telah diwahyukan oleh Allah.
Semua rasul tidak mengaku menjadi tuhan termasuk Nabi Isa a.s. Jika seorang rasul itu tuhan maka rasul lain pun menjadi tuhan juga. Tetapi semua rasul mengakui bahawa mereka adalah hamba Allah dan utusan-Nya. Begitu juga al-Masih Isa bin Mariam.
Firman Allah yang bermaksud: "Dan ibunya adalah seorang yang membenarkan Allah." (Surah al-Maidah: 75)
Ibunya Mariam percayakan Allah dan janji-janji-Nya serta kurnia daripada-Nya termasuk berita yang akan datang. Dia beriman kepada-Nya.
Sehingga Mariam mengandung Nabi Isa dalam keadaan menghadapi ujian yang sangat dahsyat kerana mengandung tanpa suami.
Allah berjanji dan dia percaya kepada janji Allah. Dia tidak membunuh diri. Dia tidak memohon supaya dimatikan agar tidak menghadapi ujian yang dahsyat itu.
Mariam tetap bersabar menghadapi ujian itu. Mariam a.s. adalah seorang yang membenarkan Allah dan beriman kepada-Nya. – lanh
Thu | Sep 20, 07 | 11:12:51 am MYT
Firman Allah yang bermaksud: "Dan jika sekiranya mereka tidak berhenti daripada apa yang mereka perkatakan." (Surah al-Maidah: 73)
Jika sekiranya mereka tidak berhenti mendakwa kononnya Allah itu satu daripada tiga unsur dan Isa al-Masih juga sebagai tuhan.
Allah berfirman yang bermaksud, "nescaya mesti akan mengenai akan orang-orang kafir di kalangan mereka, azab yang pedih." (Surah al-Maidah: 73)
Yang kafir di kalangan mereka mesti mengenai azab yang pedih. Mereka diberi amaran yang keras setelah diberi nasihat.
Memang orang Kristian dan Yahudi degil dalam masalah akidah. Apabila diajak berbincang mereka lari dan mereka tidak berani berdebat dalam masalah ketuhanan. Cuma mereka masuk ke kawasan pedalaman menyebarkan dakyah Kristian yang mana ramai di kalangan penduduk di kawasan berkenaan terdiri daripada orang jahil, miskin dan orang asli. Mereka boleh berbohong kepada masyarakat seumpama itu.
Sebaliknya mereka tidak boleh berhujah dan berdepan dengan masyarakat yang mempunyai ilmu pengetahuan. Mereka lari dan tidak berani berdepan dengan orang ramai di kawasan berkenaan. Banyak bukti dan keterangan menunjukkan bahawa mereka tidak berani berdepan dengan kebenaran.
Perkara ini berlaku termasuk di negara mereka sendiri iaitu England dan Amerika Syarikat. Paderi-paderi mereka tidak berani berhujah dengan orang Islam. Memang mereka tidak betul dalam perkara ini.
Bahkan orang Nasrani Najran yang berhujah dengan Nabi s.a.w. tidak berupaya berhujah. Apabila mereka diajak bermubahalah supaya Allah Taala menurunkan laknat ke atas siapa yang bohong. Bagaimanapun mereka menolak pelawaan itu. Bererti mereka sedar bahawa mereka tergolong di kalangan orang yang tidak benar.
Firman Allah yang bermaksud; "Apakah mereka itu tidak bertaubat kepada Allah dan memohon keampunan daripada-Nya dan Allah itu Maha Pengampun lagi Maha Penyayang." (Surah al-Maidah: 74)
Mengapa mereka tidak mengambil peluang daripada pintu taubat yang dibuka seluas-luasnya? Mereka tidak mengambil peluang daripada keampunan dan kemurahan Allah dengan mereka bertaubat, dengan memohon supaya Allah mengampunkan dosa mereka. Mengapa mereka degil dalam kekufuran itu?
Allah Taala bertanya kepada mereka dan ayat al-Quran dibacakan kepada mereka. Ada di kalangan mereka yang faham bahasa al-Quran kerana ada yang berbangsa Arab.
Ada juga Orientalis yang mengerti bahasa dan makna isi kandungan al-Quran. Apabila diajak masuk Islam mereka menolaknya kerana mereka mendakwa bahawa Allah Taala telah cap (tutupkan) hati mereka.
Ini adalah antara perangai orang Krisitian. Seterusnya Allah berfirman yang bermaksud, "Tiadalah al-Masih Ibnu Mariam itu melainkan dia seorang rasul yang diutuskan oleh Allah. Sesungguhnya telah berlalu sebelumnya rasul-rasul yang lain."(Surah al-Maidah: 75)
Isa bin Mariam adalah seorang rasul sebagaimana rasul-rasul yang lain yang telah diwahyukan oleh Allah.
Semua rasul tidak mengaku menjadi tuhan termasuk Nabi Isa a.s. Jika seorang rasul itu tuhan maka rasul lain pun menjadi tuhan juga. Tetapi semua rasul mengakui bahawa mereka adalah hamba Allah dan utusan-Nya. Begitu juga al-Masih Isa bin Mariam.
Firman Allah yang bermaksud: "Dan ibunya adalah seorang yang membenarkan Allah." (Surah al-Maidah: 75)
Ibunya Mariam percayakan Allah dan janji-janji-Nya serta kurnia daripada-Nya termasuk berita yang akan datang. Dia beriman kepada-Nya.
Sehingga Mariam mengandung Nabi Isa dalam keadaan menghadapi ujian yang sangat dahsyat kerana mengandung tanpa suami.
Allah berjanji dan dia percaya kepada janji Allah. Dia tidak membunuh diri. Dia tidak memohon supaya dimatikan agar tidak menghadapi ujian yang dahsyat itu.
Mariam tetap bersabar menghadapi ujian itu. Mariam a.s. adalah seorang yang membenarkan Allah dan beriman kepada-Nya. – lanh
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written by kyerule, January 07, 2008 16:36:58
written by kyerule, January 07, 2008 16:36:58
i think most of u confuse Allah and God..i think in al-quran, the word 'Allah' refers to the name God..while in al-quran 'Rabb' refers to god..for example 'Alhamdulillahi (lillah come from the word Allah) Rabbil Alamin' means 'All praise to Allah, God of the universe'..so why the catholic doesnt use 'Rabb' instead?
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written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:53:31
written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:53:31
"HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO HAVE AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH ALMIGHTY GOD?"
ANSWER: God is so great (Allah-u-Akbar) and His love is so complete, that He enables us to have a relationship with him more intimate than any human relationship! Just look at what God's Word says:
"This is what the high and lofty One says, He who lives forever, ‘I live in a high and holy place, but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit.’" (Isaiah 57:15)
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his son, Jesus Christ." (I John 1:3)
"this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
"For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, ‘Abba, Father.’ The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children." (Rom. 8:15,16)
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the Spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us." (I Cor. 2:11,12)
ANSWER: God is so great (Allah-u-Akbar) and His love is so complete, that He enables us to have a relationship with him more intimate than any human relationship! Just look at what God's Word says:
"This is what the high and lofty One says, He who lives forever, ‘I live in a high and holy place, but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit.’" (Isaiah 57:15)
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his son, Jesus Christ." (I John 1:3)
"this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
"For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, ‘Abba, Father.’ The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children." (Rom. 8:15,16)
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the Spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us." (I Cor. 2:11,12)
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written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:52:59
written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:52:59
ANSWER #2: "God can do anything! Just as in the act of creation, God's eternal Word came out of Him when He spoke to create all things (but He did not become two gods), so when he spoke His eternal Word into the virgin Mary, God's Word remained God and at the same time became a man like us. Jesus never stopped being almighty Allah's Eternal Word. It says, ‘The Word became flesh ...’ (John 1:14); not ‘The Word changed to flesh.’ He is not sometimes God and sometimes man, nor is He half God and half man. He is both fully God and fully human at the same time!"
QUESTION #3c: "BUT WHAT NEED WOULD GOD HAVE TO DO SUCH A THING? He doesn't need Jesus or anyone else to die for us. God can forgive whomever He wants to forgive!"
ANSWER #3:
God's Love: One of God's greatest attributes is love. True love is self giving (not taking) for the sake of another. God gave Himself to us in order to forgive us and save us from eternal judgement/death.
... he too shared in their humanity (flesh and blood) so that by his death he might destroy ... the devil and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death ... (Hebrews 2:14,15)
He learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation ... (Hebrews 5:8,9)
God's Justice: God's justice requires Him to do this. The Bible teaches that although God has the power to do anything ("For nothing is impossible with God". - Luke 1:37), He cannot do things like lie ("...it is impossible for God to lie..." - Heb. 6:1
or be unfaithful to His promises ("If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself." - 2 Tim. 2:13) because He would be violating his own character and would no longer be God! He would self-destruct! To illustrate this, suppose I were to steal a very valuable item from your home and sell it to buy drugs or to gamble, and by the time you found me I had already wasted all the money. If I were then to confess my sin and beg your forgiveness, you would have a choice of either forgiving me and absorbing the loss or gaining some satisfaction by having me arrested and prosecuted. If you chose to forgive me, the cost of your forgiveness would be the value of the item I stole from you plus the shame of being burglarized. You would have to be willing to accept all that loss by choosing to give it to me. Suppose the judge took pity on me and decided to forgive me. You would certainly feel that judge was unjust! My family and friends could not forgive me no matter how much they might love me. No one but you could forgive me unless someone was willing to pay you the full value of the item I stole from you and you were willing to accept payment as compensation. Forgiveness is never just a matter of words because it is never free! Forgiveness can only be given by the person who is willing to absorb the injury, loss or cost involved. God is certainly not an unjust judge who would simply declare us forgiven because He wants to.
We seem to be faced with a dilemma. If God forgave our sins without giving us the full punishment according to His own law, He would be unjust and would be violating himself. But if we are not forgiven we could never endure the eternal punishment in hell that we deserve. Therefore, the eternal Word of God became a man (Jesus) so he could take our punishment upon himself (God cannot die, but a man can die). He did this so that he could forgive us and be just in doing so. "... God presented him (Jesus) as a sacrifice of atonement...He did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as TO BE JUST and THE ONE WHO JUSTIFIES those who have faith in Jesus ..." (see Rom. 3:22-26).
QUESTION #3c: "BUT WHAT NEED WOULD GOD HAVE TO DO SUCH A THING? He doesn't need Jesus or anyone else to die for us. God can forgive whomever He wants to forgive!"
ANSWER #3:
God's Love: One of God's greatest attributes is love. True love is self giving (not taking) for the sake of another. God gave Himself to us in order to forgive us and save us from eternal judgement/death.
... he too shared in their humanity (flesh and blood) so that by his death he might destroy ... the devil and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death ... (Hebrews 2:14,15)
He learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation ... (Hebrews 5:8,9)
God's Justice: God's justice requires Him to do this. The Bible teaches that although God has the power to do anything ("For nothing is impossible with God". - Luke 1:37), He cannot do things like lie ("...it is impossible for God to lie..." - Heb. 6:1
or be unfaithful to His promises ("If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself." - 2 Tim. 2:13) because He would be violating his own character and would no longer be God! He would self-destruct! To illustrate this, suppose I were to steal a very valuable item from your home and sell it to buy drugs or to gamble, and by the time you found me I had already wasted all the money. If I were then to confess my sin and beg your forgiveness, you would have a choice of either forgiving me and absorbing the loss or gaining some satisfaction by having me arrested and prosecuted. If you chose to forgive me, the cost of your forgiveness would be the value of the item I stole from you plus the shame of being burglarized. You would have to be willing to accept all that loss by choosing to give it to me. Suppose the judge took pity on me and decided to forgive me. You would certainly feel that judge was unjust! My family and friends could not forgive me no matter how much they might love me. No one but you could forgive me unless someone was willing to pay you the full value of the item I stole from you and you were willing to accept payment as compensation. Forgiveness is never just a matter of words because it is never free! Forgiveness can only be given by the person who is willing to absorb the injury, loss or cost involved. God is certainly not an unjust judge who would simply declare us forgiven because He wants to. We seem to be faced with a dilemma. If God forgave our sins without giving us the full punishment according to His own law, He would be unjust and would be violating himself. But if we are not forgiven we could never endure the eternal punishment in hell that we deserve. Therefore, the eternal Word of God became a man (Jesus) so he could take our punishment upon himself (God cannot die, but a man can die). He did this so that he could forgive us and be just in doing so. "... God presented him (Jesus) as a sacrifice of atonement...He did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as TO BE JUST and THE ONE WHO JUSTIFIES those who have faith in Jesus ..." (see Rom. 3:22-26).
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written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:52:17
written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:52:17
THERE ARE REALLY THREE PARTS TO THIS QUESTION:
QUESTION #3a: "HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD WHEN HE DID THINGS GOD DOESN'T/WON'T DO? After all:
Jesus talked about God as His God, but God has no God.
Jesus prayed to God instead of to himself.
Jesus got hungry and thirsty (Matt. 4:2; John 19:2, but God never gets hungry or thirsty (Psalm 50:9-13; Acts 17:25).
Jesus was tempted by the devil (Matt.4:1 & Heb.4:15), but God cannot be tempted (James 1:13).
Jesus got tired (John 4:6; Matthew 8:24), but God doesn't get tired (Psalm 121:4; Isaiah 40:2.
Jesus learned obedience and grew up into a mature and perfect man (Hebrews 5:9), but God never changes (James 1:17).
Jesus was born and also died, but God is everlasting."
ANSWER: #1: "The description of Jesus we read in the Injil is the description of One Who ‘became’ a human being. Notice it does not say that a man somehow become God; it says Allah's eternal Word became a man. In Hebrews 2:17 it says Jesus became like us ‘in every way’ - bone of our bone and flesh of our flesh! Therefore, because He became a real human being just like us, He did things we do. If he didn't do those things he wouldn't really be one of us.
"Jesus is Almighty God, but for our sake when He became a man He chose to no longer function as God. He is still God and could use His powers as God, but chose instead to only function as a man.
"As a human being, He was born, grew in knowledge and maturity, got hungry & thirsty, got tired and sleepy, prayed to His ‘Father’ in heaven, was tempted in every way that we are (but he never sinned), and died (but God raised Him up victorious over death). All these things prove He became a real human being. Jesus is not an apparition nor was he just pretending to be a man. As a human being, he had all of our needs and limitations, except for our sinful, fallen nature. One reason He is called the ‘last Adam’ (1 Cor.15:45) is because he became just like Adam was before he sinned."
QUESTION #3b: "HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD AND MAN AT THE SAME TIME? How can he be on earth praying to God in heaven, talking about God as ‘my Father’ and He and the Father still be one God?"
QUESTION #3a: "HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD WHEN HE DID THINGS GOD DOESN'T/WON'T DO? After all:
Jesus talked about God as His God, but God has no God.
Jesus prayed to God instead of to himself.
Jesus got hungry and thirsty (Matt. 4:2; John 19:2
, but God never gets hungry or thirsty (Psalm 50:9-13; Acts 17:25). Jesus was tempted by the devil (Matt.4:1 & Heb.4:15), but God cannot be tempted (James 1:13).
Jesus got tired (John 4:6; Matthew 8:24), but God doesn't get tired (Psalm 121:4; Isaiah 40:2
. Jesus learned obedience and grew up into a mature and perfect man (Hebrews 5:9), but God never changes (James 1:17).
Jesus was born and also died, but God is everlasting."
ANSWER: #1: "The description of Jesus we read in the Injil is the description of One Who ‘became’ a human being. Notice it does not say that a man somehow become God; it says Allah's eternal Word became a man. In Hebrews 2:17 it says Jesus became like us ‘in every way’ - bone of our bone and flesh of our flesh! Therefore, because He became a real human being just like us, He did things we do. If he didn't do those things he wouldn't really be one of us.
"Jesus is Almighty God, but for our sake when He became a man He chose to no longer function as God. He is still God and could use His powers as God, but chose instead to only function as a man.
"As a human being, He was born, grew in knowledge and maturity, got hungry & thirsty, got tired and sleepy, prayed to His ‘Father’ in heaven, was tempted in every way that we are (but he never sinned), and died (but God raised Him up victorious over death). All these things prove He became a real human being. Jesus is not an apparition nor was he just pretending to be a man. As a human being, he had all of our needs and limitations, except for our sinful, fallen nature. One reason He is called the ‘last Adam’ (1 Cor.15:45) is because he became just like Adam was before he sinned."
QUESTION #3b: "HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD AND MAN AT THE SAME TIME? How can he be on earth praying to God in heaven, talking about God as ‘my Father’ and He and the Father still be one God?"
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written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:49:57
written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:49:57
ANSWER #3: God created all things by Himself: I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself. (Isaiah 44:24). He uses several metaphors to describe how He did it:
by His Wisdom: I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence ... The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth ... I was there when he set the heaven in place ... Then I was the craftsman as his side... (Proverbs 8:1-31) Did God ever exist without wisdom? No! Did God create his own wisdom? No! God's wisdom is "from eternity, from the beginning." God's wisdom was "brought forth" at the time of creation, and by His wisdom God created everything. But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding. (Jeremiah 10:12)
by His Right Hand: My own hand laid the foundations of the earth and my right hand spread out the heavens. (Isaiah 48:13) Does this mean that God's right hand created instead of God Himself? Of course not! God created everything by His right hand - by His power.
by The Breath of His Mouth: By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth ... For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm. (Psalm 33:6,9) These verses clearly show that the breath of God's mouth and God's word are the same.
by His Word: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (John 1:1-3) The Word of God is the communication or manifestation of God. God's Word is God Himself; not a second God. The Word was "with" God (two?) and yet the Word "was" God (one)! Now notice verse 14: The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, Who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Somehow, by the power of God, God's eternal word ‘became’ a human being like us named Jesus! (God can do anything!) Jesus is God's word, the breath of His mouth, His right hand and His wisdom, through whom all things were created.
QUESTION #3: "HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD? WHY DO YOU BLASPHEME BY CALLING JESUS ‘GOD’?"
GENERAL ANSWER: Explanation from John 1:1-3,14: "The eternal Word of God, which was with God (seems like two) in the beginning, also was God (one; not two). Everything Allah created, He created by saying, ‘Be!’ - He created everything by His Word. Allah's Word is not another God; Allah's Word is Allah's communication of Himself. Can Allah exist without His Word? Was there ever a time when Allah's Word did not exist? It is like my word or communication, which is in one sense a part of me, but is not a second being, separate from me. So Allah is One, and He has Word, which comes out from Him and communicates Him. Jesus is ‘Kalamat Ullah,’ the Word of Allah, who came out from Allah and came into the world as a human being. God in His sovereignty chose to reveal Himself to us - by His Word, Who became a human being and lived among us, having become one of us."
by His Wisdom: I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence ... The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth ... I was there when he set the heaven in place ... Then I was the craftsman as his side... (Proverbs 8:1-31) Did God ever exist without wisdom? No! Did God create his own wisdom? No! God's wisdom is "from eternity, from the beginning." God's wisdom was "brought forth" at the time of creation, and by His wisdom God created everything. But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding. (Jeremiah 10:12)
by His Right Hand: My own hand laid the foundations of the earth and my right hand spread out the heavens. (Isaiah 48:13) Does this mean that God's right hand created instead of God Himself? Of course not! God created everything by His right hand - by His power.
by The Breath of His Mouth: By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth ... For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm. (Psalm 33:6,9) These verses clearly show that the breath of God's mouth and God's word are the same.
by His Word: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (John 1:1-3) The Word of God is the communication or manifestation of God. God's Word is God Himself; not a second God. The Word was "with" God (two?) and yet the Word "was" God (one)! Now notice verse 14: The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, Who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Somehow, by the power of God, God's eternal word ‘became’ a human being like us named Jesus! (God can do anything!) Jesus is God's word, the breath of His mouth, His right hand and His wisdom, through whom all things were created.
QUESTION #3: "HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD? WHY DO YOU BLASPHEME BY CALLING JESUS ‘GOD’?"
GENERAL ANSWER: Explanation from John 1:1-3,14: "The eternal Word of God, which was with God (seems like two) in the beginning, also was God (one; not two). Everything Allah created, He created by saying, ‘Be!’ - He created everything by His Word. Allah's Word is not another God; Allah's Word is Allah's communication of Himself. Can Allah exist without His Word? Was there ever a time when Allah's Word did not exist? It is like my word or communication, which is in one sense a part of me, but is not a second being, separate from me. So Allah is One, and He has Word, which comes out from Him and communicates Him. Jesus is ‘Kalamat Ullah,’ the Word of Allah, who came out from Allah and came into the world as a human being. God in His sovereignty chose to reveal Himself to us - by His Word, Who became a human being and lived among us, having become one of us."
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written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:47:27
written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:47:27
QUESTION #1: "WHY DO CHRISTIANS COVER UP THEIR ABSURD TEACHINGS ABOUT GOD BY CALLING THEM ‘A MYSTERY’? ISLAM IS CLEAR IN SAYING GOD IS ONE!" (Western converts to Islam often express their relief to find that, "Islam's teaching about God is straight forward, and void of the ‘mysteries’ of Christianity, such as the trinity and the deity of Christ, which never made sense to me.")
ANSWER: If, after so many years of scientific research, the physical universe, in which we live, is still beyond our complete understanding, why should we think it strange that we cannot fully understand the invisible Creator of this universe? In fact if we could completely understand God, then we would be equal to Him! The Bible tells us:
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8,9)
How unsearchable his judgments and his paths beyond tracing out. (Romans 11:33)
QUESTION #2: "DO YOU BELIEVE IN THREE GODS?"
ANSWER #1: "Jesus Himself said that God is One": Someone asked him about the commandments of God : "‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."’" (Mark 12:29)
ANSWER #2: "The Bible categorically states 28 times that God is One!":
In the Torah (Taurat): Deut. 6:4,5 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." (see also Deut. 4:35; Deut. 4:39; I Kings 8:60; 2 Kings 19:19);
In the Psalms (Zabur): Ps. 86:10 - "For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God."
In the books of the prophets: Isaiah 44:6,8 - "This is what the Lord says ... I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." "You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." (see also Is. 37:16; Is. 37:20; Is. 43:10,11; Is. 44:24; Is. 45:5; Is. 45:6; Is. 45:18; Is. 45:21; Is. 46:9; Is. 48:12; Hosea 13:4)
In the New Testament (Injil): 1 Tim. 2:5,6a - "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men." (see also Mark 12:29; John 5:44; Rom. 3:30; I Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:6; I Tim. 1:17; James 2:19; Jude 25)
ANSWER: If, after so many years of scientific research, the physical universe, in which we live, is still beyond our complete understanding, why should we think it strange that we cannot fully understand the invisible Creator of this universe? In fact if we could completely understand God, then we would be equal to Him! The Bible tells us:
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8,9)
How unsearchable his judgments and his paths beyond tracing out. (Romans 11:33)
QUESTION #2: "DO YOU BELIEVE IN THREE GODS?"
ANSWER #1: "Jesus Himself said that God is One": Someone asked him about the commandments of God : "‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."’" (Mark 12:29)
ANSWER #2: "The Bible categorically states 28 times that God is One!":
In the Torah (Taurat): Deut. 6:4,5 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." (see also Deut. 4:35; Deut. 4:39; I Kings 8:60; 2 Kings 19:19);
In the Psalms (Zabur): Ps. 86:10 - "For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God."
In the books of the prophets: Isaiah 44:6,8 - "This is what the Lord says ... I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." "You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." (see also Is. 37:16; Is. 37:20; Is. 43:10,11; Is. 44:24; Is. 45:5; Is. 45:6; Is. 45:18; Is. 45:21; Is. 46:9; Is. 48:12; Hosea 13:4)
In the New Testament (Injil): 1 Tim. 2:5,6a - "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men." (see also Mark 12:29; John 5:44; Rom. 3:30; I Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:6; I Tim. 1:17; James 2:19; Jude 25)
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written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:36:16
written by GODzilla1, January 07, 2008 14:36:16
Concept of "Islamic State"
"An Islamic state is essentially an ideological state, and is thus radically different from a national state." This statement made by Mawdudi lays the basic foundation for the political, economical, social, and religious system of all Islamic countries which impose the Islamic law. This ideological system intentionally discriminates between people according to their religious affiliations. Mawdudi, a prominent Pakistani Muslim scholar, summarizes the basic differences between Islamic and secular states as follows:
1)
An Islamic state is ideological. People who reside in it are divided into Muslims, who believe in its ideology and non-Muslims who do not believe.
2)
Responsibility for policy and administration of such a state "should rest primarily with those who believe in the Islamic ideology." Non-Muslims, therefore, cannot be asked to undertake or be entrusted with the responsibility of policymaking.
3)
An Islamic state is bound to distinguish (i.e. discriminates) between Muslims and non-Muslims. However the Islamic law "Shari`a" guarantees to non-Muslims "certain specifically stated rights beyond which they are not permitted to meddle in the affairs of the state because they do not subscribe to its ideology." Once they embrace the Islamic faith, they "become equal participants in all matters concerning the state and the government."
Zimmis and Religious Practices
Muslims believe that the Zimmis are Mushrikun (polytheists) for they see the belief in the Trinity as belief in three gods. Islam is the only true religion, they claim. Therefore, to protect Muslims from corruption, especially against the unforgivable sin of shirk (polytheism), its practice is forbidden among Muslims, because it is considered the greatest abomination. When infidels/non- Muslims practice it publicly, it becomes an enticement and exhortation to apostasy. It is significant here to notice that according to Muraghi, Zimmis and infidels are polytheists and therefore, must have the same treatment.
According to Muslim jurists, the following legal ordinances must be enforced on Zimmis (infidels/non- Muslims) who reside among Muslims:
1)
Zimmis are not allowed to build new places of worship or temples. They are allowed to renovate old places of worship provided they do not allow to add any new construction...
2)
Zimmis are not allowed to pray or read their sacred books out loud at home or in places of worship, lest Muslims hear their prayers.
3)
Zimmis are not allowed to print their religious books or sell them in public places and markets. They are allowed to publish and sell them among their own people, in their places of worship and temples.
4)
Zimmis are not allowed to install the cross in churches/or buildings or any other religious symbols since it is a symbol of infidelity.
5)
Zimmis are not permitted to broadcast or display their ceremonial religious rituals on radio or television or to use the media or to publish any picture of their religious ceremonies in newspaper and magazines.
6)
Zimmis are not allowed to congregate in the streets during their religious festivals; rather, each must quietly make his way to his church or temple.
7)
Zimmis are not allowed to join the army unless there is indispensable need for them in which case they are not allowed to assume leadership positions but are considered mercenaries.
"An Islamic state is essentially an ideological state, and is thus radically different from a national state." This statement made by Mawdudi lays the basic foundation for the political, economical, social, and religious system of all Islamic countries which impose the Islamic law. This ideological system intentionally discriminates between people according to their religious affiliations. Mawdudi, a prominent Pakistani Muslim scholar, summarizes the basic differences between Islamic and secular states as follows:
1)
An Islamic state is ideological. People who reside in it are divided into Muslims, who believe in its ideology and non-Muslims who do not believe.
2)
Responsibility for policy and administration of such a state "should rest primarily with those who believe in the Islamic ideology." Non-Muslims, therefore, cannot be asked to undertake or be entrusted with the responsibility of policymaking.
3)
An Islamic state is bound to distinguish (i.e. discriminates) between Muslims and non-Muslims. However the Islamic law "Shari`a" guarantees to non-Muslims "certain specifically stated rights beyond which they are not permitted to meddle in the affairs of the state because they do not subscribe to its ideology." Once they embrace the Islamic faith, they "become equal participants in all matters concerning the state and the government."
Zimmis and Religious Practices
Muslims believe that the Zimmis are Mushrikun (polytheists) for they see the belief in the Trinity as belief in three gods. Islam is the only true religion, they claim. Therefore, to protect Muslims from corruption, especially against the unforgivable sin of shirk (polytheism), its practice is forbidden among Muslims, because it is considered the greatest abomination. When infidels/non- Muslims practice it publicly, it becomes an enticement and exhortation to apostasy. It is significant here to notice that according to Muraghi, Zimmis and infidels are polytheists and therefore, must have the same treatment.
According to Muslim jurists, the following legal ordinances must be enforced on Zimmis (infidels/non- Muslims) who reside among Muslims:
1)
Zimmis are not allowed to build new places of worship or temples. They are allowed to renovate old places of worship provided they do not allow to add any new construction...
2)
Zimmis are not allowed to pray or read their sacred books out loud at home or in places of worship, lest Muslims hear their prayers.
3)
Zimmis are not allowed to print their religious books or sell them in public places and markets. They are allowed to publish and sell them among their own people, in their places of worship and temples.
4)
Zimmis are not allowed to install the cross in churches/or buildings or any other religious symbols since it is a symbol of infidelity.
5)
Zimmis are not permitted to broadcast or display their ceremonial religious rituals on radio or television or to use the media or to publish any picture of their religious ceremonies in newspaper and magazines.
6)
Zimmis are not allowed to congregate in the streets during their religious festivals; rather, each must quietly make his way to his church or temple.
7)
Zimmis are not allowed to join the army unless there is indispensable need for them in which case they are not allowed to assume leadership positions but are considered mercenaries.
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written by Presiden Mesia, January 07, 2008 02:46:01
written by Presiden Mesia, January 07, 2008 02:46:01
There is only one creator called Allah...All the mankind must obey to Allah.
Islam is the only religion worshipping to Allah.
Christian is the modified religion that worshipping to three gods.
4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
Islam is the only religion worshipping to Allah.
Christian is the modified religion that worshipping to three gods.
4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
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written by C360, January 06, 2008 09:36:28
written by C360, January 06, 2008 09:36:28
written by ricky, January 06, 2008 | 00:53:35
According to Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia's definition, Allah means "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa, Yang bersifat dgn [sic] sifat-sifat Yang Maha Sempurna dan Yang mencipta alam ini". I would translate this to mean (and I stand corrected) "God Almighty, With Divine Attributes, All Perfect and Creator of This Universe".
Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia (Malaysian Institute of Language and Literature) is the government body responsible for co-ordinating the use of the Malay language in Malaysia. Heck, their definition of Allah makes no reference to, or mention of, the Muslim God!
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DBP and the Interior Ministry have both made public statements that the Catholics should use "TUHAN" .. if "Allah" means "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa", then "TUHAN" refers to a LESSER DESIGNATE at the MINIMUM.
Given the Abrahamic faiths include Islam this implies that DBP and the Interior Ministry is prescribing the BLASPHEMY of GOD with a LESSER DESIGNATE at the MINIMUM (without going into the Holy Trinity complexities).
If the Government CLAIMS that "Allah" refers to the Muslim God (which Islam in the world does not) .. would it not make "Malaysian Islam" HERETIC, in claiming that the Muslim God is DIFFERENT from the Christian God .. OR that the "Malay Muslim God" is the "true God" compared to the world's Muslim God ..
This seems to be degenerating into "My God is TRUE-er than your God" even as the 3 faiths arise (according to the Quran) ".. of the same text .."
According to Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia's definition, Allah means "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa, Yang bersifat dgn [sic] sifat-sifat Yang Maha Sempurna dan Yang mencipta alam ini". I would translate this to mean (and I stand corrected) "God Almighty, With Divine Attributes, All Perfect and Creator of This Universe".
Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia (Malaysian Institute of Language and Literature) is the government body responsible for co-ordinating the use of the Malay language in Malaysia. Heck, their definition of Allah makes no reference to, or mention of, the Muslim God!
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DBP and the Interior Ministry have both made public statements that the Catholics should use "TUHAN" .. if "Allah" means "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa", then "TUHAN" refers to a LESSER DESIGNATE at the MINIMUM.
Given the Abrahamic faiths include Islam this implies that DBP and the Interior Ministry is prescribing the BLASPHEMY of GOD with a LESSER DESIGNATE at the MINIMUM (without going into the Holy Trinity complexities).
If the Government CLAIMS that "Allah" refers to the Muslim God (which Islam in the world does not) .. would it not make "Malaysian Islam" HERETIC, in claiming that the Muslim God is DIFFERENT from the Christian God .. OR that the "Malay Muslim God" is the "true God" compared to the world's Muslim God ..
This seems to be degenerating into "My God is TRUE-er than your God" even as the 3 faiths arise (according to the Quran) ".. of the same text .."
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written by Y1, January 05, 2008 22:55:47
written by Y1, January 05, 2008 22:55:47
Precisely Ricky. This defination of Allah in Malay is what Christians believe in as God Almighty. How can Muslims (it only happens in Malaysia) claim this is their God and strictly for their own worship when history bears witness to the Christians has bas believed in Allah (God Almighty) before Islam came into being. It is like a hijacker of a plane claiming the plane now belongs to him for his sole usage.
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written by ricky, January 05, 2008 16:53:35
written by ricky, January 05, 2008 16:53:35
According to Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia's definition, Allah means "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa, Yang bersifat dgn [sic] sifat-sifat Yang Maha Sempurna dan Yang mencipta alam ini". I would translate this to mean (and I stand corrected) "God Almighty, With Divine Attributes, All Perfect and Creator of This Universe".
Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia (Malaysian Institute of Language and Literature) is the government body responsible for co-ordinating the use of the Malay language in Malaysia. Heck, their definition of Allah makes no reference to, or mention of, the Muslim God!
Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia (Malaysian Institute of Language and Literature) is the government body responsible for co-ordinating the use of the Malay language in Malaysia. Heck, their definition of Allah makes no reference to, or mention of, the Muslim God!
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written by macaufan, January 05, 2008 12:35:48
written by macaufan, January 05, 2008 12:35:48
God is God, being whatever religion u r & no matter what language u use to call ur GOD, no one can stop u ! & no one can force u how to call ur GOD too !
stop falling into the umno regime political ploy that's to divert our focus & devide our unity in toppling them down in this coming GE !
stop falling into the umno regime political ploy that's to divert our focus & devide our unity in toppling them down in this coming GE !
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 03:55:23
written by SUV, January 05, 2008 03:55:23
100. Shun all lowness, narrowness and shallowness in religious thought and experience. Be wider than the widest horizons, be loftier than the highest Kanchenjunga, be profounder than the deepest oceans.
Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 03:23:22
written by SUV, January 05, 2008 03:23:22
http://www.freewebs.com/barinc...orisms.htm
http://vidyamandira.ac.in/academics/naac/Html/images/Math 166_Swami Vivekananda Ochre.jpg
http://vidyamandira.ac.in/academics/naac/Html/images/Math 166_Swami Vivekananda Ochre.jpg
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 01:59:57
written by SUV, January 05, 2008 01:59:57
folo what???? 
..which is greater.. realising or following?
btw,why pipul without fail always say fear god?ini lecehlah
..bukankah bagus kalu kita embrace or love god..ummm?
..which is greater.. realising or following? btw,why pipul without fail always say fear god?ini lecehlah
..bukankah bagus kalu kita embrace or love god..ummm?
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written by Msia Negarakuku, January 04, 2008 17:20:23
written by Msia Negarakuku, January 04, 2008 17:20:23
Malay politicians make Malays looks like stupid fools. Make Islam ISLAMFOBIA.
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 03, 2008 07:05:21
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 03, 2008 07:05:21
if you clearly can see in the holy quran... why don't you follow???????
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written by SUV, January 03, 2008 06:47:02
written by SUV, January 03, 2008 06:47:02
alo mod of mt..got such thing as 0 ah?
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yalah,the messengers of divine,the vibutis,the avatars,the supreme yogis turun at critical moments la..their burden tremendous o..
btw,http://www.salagram.net/names-of-Allah-page.htm
note:brahman and brahma no same same.
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yalah,the messengers of divine,the vibutis,the avatars,the supreme yogis turun at critical moments la..their burden tremendous o..
btw,http://www.salagram.net/names-of-Allah-page.htm
note:brahman and brahma no same same.
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written by SUV, January 03, 2008 02:05:58
written by SUV, January 03, 2008 02:05:58
Why He send a prophet to mankind?
so dat otak udangs like suv n taliban can be awakened le...
so dat otak udangs like suv n taliban can be awakened le...
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written by SUV, January 03, 2008 02:03:43
written by SUV, January 03, 2008 02:03:43
The Holy Quran's Allah is hinduism's BRAHMAN..wat's brahman?The Supreme being,The Absolute,The supreme reality...how can pipul describe the undescribeable by saying singular godle,mono god le....sheeh..even in quran ,we clearly see dat the verses describes the qualities of allah.."Allah exalted in power"..."Allah,there is no god,but he"...."the living,the eternal"..
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written by CP, January 02, 2008 01:57:42
written by CP, January 02, 2008 01:57:42
Organised religions have had over 2000 years to come to some sort of agreement as to the 'meaning' of Jesus and his message,and have failed miserably. Beyond the virtually unbridgeable theological chasm between catholics and protestants, Protestantism itself has dissolved into hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of squabbling denominations and sect, presided over, for the most part, by charlatans, homophobes, misogynists and crazy whack jobs.
Its time to stop arguing over who gets to claim the mantle of jesus (and moses and Mohamed,et,al). Its a debate grounded entirely in a handful of texts of dubious provenance and historical veracity, and, thus, in principle, cant be won - and certaintly wont be won by political 'progressiveness'. Its all just a useless distraction from real issues and real life problems that can and should be addressed without reference to god, gods,their sons and daughters, and the hopelessly confused systems of belief to which their followers blindly adhere.
Its time to stop arguing over who gets to claim the mantle of jesus (and moses and Mohamed,et,al). Its a debate grounded entirely in a handful of texts of dubious provenance and historical veracity, and, thus, in principle, cant be won - and certaintly wont be won by political 'progressiveness'. Its all just a useless distraction from real issues and real life problems that can and should be addressed without reference to god, gods,their sons and daughters, and the hopelessly confused systems of belief to which their followers blindly adhere.
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written by CP, January 02, 2008 01:57:42
written by CP, January 02, 2008 01:57:42
Organised religions have had over 2000 years to come to some sort of agreement as to the 'meaning' of Jesus and his message,and have failed miserably. Beyond the virtually unbridgeable theological chasm between catholics and protestants, Protestantism itself has dissolved into hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of squabbling denominations and sect, presided over, for the most part, by charlatans, homophobes, misogynists and crazy whack jobs.
Its time to stop arguing over who gets to claim the mantle of jesus (and moses and Mohamed,et,al). Its a debate grounded entirely in a handful of texts of dubious provenance and historical veracity, and, thus, in principle, cant be won - and certaintly wont be won by political 'progressiveness'. Its all just a useless distraction from real issues and real life problems that can and should be addressed without reference to god, gods,their sons and daughters, and the hopelessly confused systems of belief to which their followers blindly adhere.
Its time to stop arguing over who gets to claim the mantle of jesus (and moses and Mohamed,et,al). Its a debate grounded entirely in a handful of texts of dubious provenance and historical veracity, and, thus, in principle, cant be won - and certaintly wont be won by political 'progressiveness'. Its all just a useless distraction from real issues and real life problems that can and should be addressed without reference to god, gods,their sons and daughters, and the hopelessly confused systems of belief to which their followers blindly adhere.
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written by Anak Desa, January 01, 2008 19:06:33
written by Anak Desa, January 01, 2008 19:06:33
The understanding and intellect in interpreting the religion by the the Malaysian Ministers shows their weakness and stupidity
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 01, 2008 09:08:53
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 01, 2008 09:08:53
If you believe there is a GOD who create everthing including you why you are worshiping other than Him? Ask yourself why do we live in this world? Why GOD send us here? for what? to worship other than Him? Ask from other then Him? Believe other then Him?
Why He send a prophet to mankind? Every prophet came with same messange. Believe in one GOD, worship Him, follow His rules, Obey to what He order, then, went you return to Him, He will put you at the best place to return (Heaven). If you worship other then Him, punishment will wait for you and the worse place will be your place for ever and ever and ever ........
Why He send a prophet to mankind? Every prophet came with same messange. Believe in one GOD, worship Him, follow His rules, Obey to what He order, then, went you return to Him, He will put you at the best place to return (Heaven). If you worship other then Him, punishment will wait for you and the worse place will be your place for ever and ever and ever ........
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 04:48:30
written by SUV, January 01, 2008 04:48:30
Aiyaah,the messesnger of the supreme Nabi Muhamaad was..what shall i say,a born spirtual geneius..who took human birth(just like Nabi Isa,Buddha,Krishna..n so many others) to do divine's work for us fools lah...the "shaken n stirred" happend becuse of the impact of divine at its early stages..dis is a comman thing(if i am not mistaken ,when i was debating wit zul77,nabi talked about his dreams with his wife who assured him dat the dreams were messeges frm the divine)..aaah,once spirtual forces stabilised in HNabi's conciousness..no more shaken n strirred..Ramakrishna oso had this "crazy/mad" period when for 12 years h "wrestled" with the divine mother..hehe..people used to call Ramakrishna a mad nut. becuse he used to spend days n nights in front of the divine mother..weeping,offering flowers,offering food,macam macam,which we normal human iso 9001 certified nuts call it "abnormal"..yalah,Buddha,Jesus,all went thru "abnormal" periods la...biasa for anyone who seeks the divine...
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 03:15:13
written by SUV, January 01, 2008 03:15:13
its d psychic being dat correspionds direct to d supreme.its characteristics=divine..the growth of the psychic being=the growth of divinity in man/women..habis cerita!!
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 03:13:05
written by SUV, January 01, 2008 03:13:05
first of all aah..soul is NEVER RESTLESS..its d entitry which is called 'divine sparklah"..better still the psychic being..dis divini entitylah dat sustains uslah ooi!!pikirlar siki..our growth,function of our organs,cells..who doing it aah?
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 01, 2008 02:05:07
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 01, 2008 02:05:07
Part 2
As for the Muhkam Ayat, they cannot be altered because they are clear and, thus, constitute unequivocal proof against the misguided people.
This is why Allah said,
[ابْتÙÂغ
َآءَ الْÙÂÙÂØ
ªÙ’Ù†ÙŽØ©ÙÂ
]
(seeking Al-Fitnah) meaning, they seek to misguide their following by pretending to prove their innovation by relying on the Qur'an -- the Mutashabih of it -- but, this is proof against and not for them. For instance, Christians might claim that [`Isa is divine because] the Qur'an states that he is Ruhullah and His Word, which He gave to Mary, all the while ignoring Allah's statements,
[Ø¥ÙÂنْ Ù‡ÙÂÙˆÙŽ Ø¥ÙÂلاّÙ?
?½ عَبْدÙÅ??
? أَنْعÙ
ŽÙ…ْنَØ?
?§ عَلَيÙâ?
??™Ã™â€¡Ã™Â]
(He [`Isa] was not more than a servant. We granted Our favor to him.) [43:59], and,
[Ø¥ÙÂنَّ Ù…ÙŽØ«ÙŽÙ„Ù
Ž عÙÂيسَى
عÙÂندَ اللَّÃ
™â€¡Ã™Â ÙƒÙŽÙ…ÙŽØ«ÙÅ
½Ã™â€žÃ™Â ءَادَم?
?™Å½ خَلَقÙ
ŽÙ‡Ù Ù…ÙÂنتÙÂرَابÙ
 Ø«ÙÂمَّ قَالَ لَه٠كÙÂÙ†ÙÂÙŽÙŠÙŽÙƒÙÂ
ون٠]
(Verily, the likeness of `Isa before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!'' and he was.) [3:59].There are other Ayat that clearly assert that `Isa is but one of Allah's creatures and that he is the servant and Messenger of Allah, among other Messengers.
Allah's statement,
[وَابْØÂ
ªÃ™Âغَآءَ تَأْوÙÂ
يلÙÂÙ‡ÙÂ]
(And seeking for its Ta'wil,) to alter them as they desire. Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah recited,
[Ù‡ÙÂÙˆÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ أَنزَÙâ??
?žÃ™Å½ عَلَيÙâ?
??™Ã™Æ’ÙŽ الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨ÙŽ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™Â آيَـتÙÅ??
? مّÙÂØÂÙ’?
?™Æ’ÙŽÙ…ÙŽÙ€Ø
ªÙŒ Ù‡ÙÂنَّ Ø£ÙÂمّ٠الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨Ù ÙˆÙŽØ£ÙÂخَÃ
˜Â±Ã™Â Ù…ÙÂتَشَ
ـبÙÂÙ‡ÙŽÙ
€ØªÙŒ]
(It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear,), until,
[Ø£ÙÂوْلÃ
™Âواْ الأَلÙ?
?€™Ã˜Â¨Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã˜Â¨Ã™Â]
(Men of understanding) and he said,
«ÙÂÙŽØ¥ÙÂØ°Ã?
??ŽØ§ رَأَيÙ�?
?تÙÂم٠الَّذÙ?
?ينيÙÂجَادÃ??
?ÂÙ„ÙÂونÙÅ
½ ÙÂÙÂيهÙÂØÅ?
?? ÙÂÙŽÙ‡ÙÂÙ…Ã??
? Ø§Ù„Ù‘ÙŽØ°Ù?
?ينَ عَنَى اللهÙÂÃ
˜Å’ ÙÂَاØÂْذ
َرÙÂوهÙÂ
م»
(When you see those who argue in it (using the Mutashabihat), then they are those whom Allah meant. Therefore, beware of them.)Al-Bukhari recorded a similar Hadith in the Tafsir of this Ayah [3:7], as did Muslim in the book of Qadar (the Divine Will) in his Sahih, and Abu Dawud in the Sunnah section of his Sunan, from `A'ishah; "The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah,
[Ù‡ÙÂÙˆÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ أَنزَÙâ??
?žÃ™Å½ عَلَيÙâ?
??™Ã™Æ’ÙŽ الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨ÙŽ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™Â آيَـتÙÅ??
? مّÙÂØÂÙ’?
?™Æ’ÙŽÙ…ÙŽÙ€Ø
ªÙŒ]
(It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear,) until,
[وَمَا يَذَّÙÆ?
??َّر٠إÙÂلاّÙ?
?½ Ø£ÙÂوْلÃ?
??Âواْ الأَلÙ?
?€™Ã˜Â¨Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã˜Â¨Ã™Â]
(And none receive admonition except men of understanding.)
He then said,
«ÙÂÙŽØ¥ÙÂØ°Ã?
??ŽØ§ رَأَيÙ�?
?ت٠الَّذÙ?
?ينَ يَتَّب
ÙÂعÙÂونÙÅ
½ مَا تَشَابÙ
ŽÙ‡ÙŽ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™ÂØ› ÙÂÙŽØ£ÙÂÙˆÙâ€
žÃ˜Â¦Ã™ÂÙƒÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?ينَ سَمَّÙ
‰ اللهÙÂÃ
˜Å’ ÙÂَاØÂْذ
َرÙÂوهÙÂ
م»
(When you see those who follow what is not so clear of the Qur'an, then they are those whom Allah described, so beware of them.This is the wording recorded by Al-Bukhari.
=>> http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=7700
I remember last time RPK mention why people with religion bad compare with the one who without it..... they look bad because they use religion, altered to imply a false meaning suit to their needs. If you want to learn the real meaning of the quran you can refer to the link above or you can hear from IKIM radio channel 6.20am or 7.30pm. There is slot for tafsir quran. (need to separate it into 2 part.... too long)
As for the Muhkam Ayat, they cannot be altered because they are clear and, thus, constitute unequivocal proof against the misguided people.
This is why Allah said,
[ابْتÙÂغ
َآءَ الْÙÂÙÂØ
ªÙ’Ù†ÙŽØ©ÙÂ
]
(seeking Al-Fitnah) meaning, they seek to misguide their following by pretending to prove their innovation by relying on the Qur'an -- the Mutashabih of it -- but, this is proof against and not for them. For instance, Christians might claim that [`Isa is divine because] the Qur'an states that he is Ruhullah and His Word, which He gave to Mary, all the while ignoring Allah's statements,
[Ø¥ÙÂنْ Ù‡ÙÂÙˆÙŽ Ø¥ÙÂلاّÙ?
?½ عَبْدÙÅ??
? أَنْعÙ
ŽÙ…ْنَØ?
?§ عَلَيÙâ?
??™Ã™â€¡Ã™Â]
(He [`Isa] was not more than a servant. We granted Our favor to him.) [43:59], and,
[Ø¥ÙÂنَّ Ù…ÙŽØ«ÙŽÙ„Ù
Ž عÙÂيسَى
عÙÂندَ اللَّÃ
™â€¡Ã™Â ÙƒÙŽÙ…ÙŽØ«ÙÅ
½Ã™â€žÃ™Â ءَادَم?
?™Å½ خَلَقÙ
ŽÙ‡Ù Ù…ÙÂنتÙÂرَابÙ
 Ø«ÙÂمَّ قَالَ لَه٠كÙÂÙ†ÙÂÙŽÙŠÙŽÙƒÙÂ
ون٠]
(Verily, the likeness of `Isa before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!'' and he was.) [3:59].There are other Ayat that clearly assert that `Isa is but one of Allah's creatures and that he is the servant and Messenger of Allah, among other Messengers.
Allah's statement,
[وَابْØÂ
ªÃ™Âغَآءَ تَأْوÙÂ
يلÙÂÙ‡ÙÂ]
(And seeking for its Ta'wil,) to alter them as they desire. Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah recited,
[Ù‡ÙÂÙˆÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ أَنزَÙâ??
?žÃ™Å½ عَلَيÙâ?
??™Ã™Æ’ÙŽ الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨ÙŽ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™Â آيَـتÙÅ??
? مّÙÂØÂÙ’?
?™Æ’ÙŽÙ…ÙŽÙ€Ø
ªÙŒ Ù‡ÙÂنَّ Ø£ÙÂمّ٠الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨Ù ÙˆÙŽØ£ÙÂخَÃ
˜Â±Ã™Â Ù…ÙÂتَشَ
ـبÙÂÙ‡ÙŽÙ
€ØªÙŒ]
(It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear,), until,
[Ø£ÙÂوْلÃ
™Âواْ الأَلÙ?
?€™Ã˜Â¨Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã˜Â¨Ã™Â]
(Men of understanding) and he said,
«ÙÂÙŽØ¥ÙÂØ°Ã?
??ŽØ§ رَأَيÙ�?
?تÙÂم٠الَّذÙ?
?ينيÙÂجَادÃ??
?ÂÙ„ÙÂونÙÅ
½ ÙÂÙÂيهÙÂØÅ?
?? ÙÂÙŽÙ‡ÙÂÙ…Ã??
? Ø§Ù„Ù‘ÙŽØ°Ù?
?ينَ عَنَى اللهÙÂÃ
˜Å’ ÙÂَاØÂْذ
َرÙÂوهÙÂ
م»
(When you see those who argue in it (using the Mutashabihat), then they are those whom Allah meant. Therefore, beware of them.)Al-Bukhari recorded a similar Hadith in the Tafsir of this Ayah [3:7], as did Muslim in the book of Qadar (the Divine Will) in his Sahih, and Abu Dawud in the Sunnah section of his Sunan, from `A'ishah; "The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah,
[Ù‡ÙÂÙˆÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?Ù‰ أَنزَÙâ??
?žÃ™Å½ عَلَيÙâ?
??™Ã™Æ’ÙŽ الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨ÙŽ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™Â آيَـتÙÅ??
? مّÙÂØÂÙ’?
?™Æ’ÙŽÙ…ÙŽÙ€Ø
ªÙŒ]
(It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear,) until,
[وَمَا يَذَّÙÆ?
??َّر٠إÙÂلاّÙ?
?½ Ø£ÙÂوْلÃ?
??Âواْ الأَلÙ?
?€™Ã˜Â¨Ã™Å½Ã™â‚¬Ã˜Â¨Ã™Â]
(And none receive admonition except men of understanding.)
He then said,
«ÙÂÙŽØ¥ÙÂØ°Ã?
??ŽØ§ رَأَيÙ�?
?ت٠الَّذÙ?
?ينَ يَتَّب
ÙÂعÙÂونÙÅ
½ مَا تَشَابÙ
ŽÙ‡ÙŽ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™ÂØ› ÙÂÙŽØ£ÙÂÙˆÙâ€
žÃ˜Â¦Ã™ÂÙƒÙŽ الَّذÙ?
?ينَ سَمَّÙ
‰ اللهÙÂÃ
˜Å’ ÙÂَاØÂْذ
َرÙÂوهÙÂ
م»
(When you see those who follow what is not so clear of the Qur'an, then they are those whom Allah described, so beware of them.This is the wording recorded by Al-Bukhari.
=>> http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=7700
I remember last time RPK mention why people with religion bad compare with the one who without it..... they look bad because they use religion, altered to imply a false meaning suit to their needs. If you want to learn the real meaning of the quran you can refer to the link above or you can hear from IKIM radio channel 6.20am or 7.30pm. There is slot for tafsir quran. (need to separate it into 2 part.... too long)
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 01, 2008 02:04:20
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 01, 2008 02:04:20
Dear monstercat
Part 1
The Mutashabihat and Muhkamat Ayat (basic or fundamental and not of well-established meaning)
Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone. And there are Ayat in the Qur'an that are Mutashabihat not entirely clear for many, or some people. So those who refer to the Muhkam Ayat to understand the Mutashabih Ayat, will have acquired the correct guidance, and vice versa.
This is why Allah said,
[Ù‡ÙÂنَّ
Ø£ÙÂمّ٠الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨ÙÂ]
(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,
[ÙˆÙŽØ£ÙÂخَ?
?˜Â±Ã™Â Ù…ÙÂتَشَ
ـبÙÂÙ‡ÙŽÙ
€ØªÙŒ]
(And others not entirely clear) as they have several meanings, some that agree with the Muhkam and some that carry other literal indications, although these meaning might not be desired.
The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented. As for the Mutashabihat Ayat, they include the abrogated Ayat, parables, oaths, and what should be believed in, but not implemented.
Muhammad bin Ishaq bin Yasar commented on,
[Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ?
??¡Ã™Â آيَـتÙÅ??
? مّÙÂØÂÙ’?
?™Æ’ÙŽÙ…ÙŽÙ€Ø
ªÙŒ]
(In it are verses that are entirely clear) as "Containing proof of the Lord, immunity for the servants and a refutation of opponents and of falsehood. They cannot be changed or altered from what they were meant for.'' He also said, "As for the unclear Ayat, they can (but must not) be altered and changed, and this is a test from Allah to the servants, just as He tested them with the allowed and prohibited things. So these Ayat must not be altered to imply a false meaning or be distorted from the truth.Therefore, Allah said,
[ÙÂÙŽØ£ÙŽÙ…Ùâ
€˜Ã™Å½Ã˜Â§ الَّذÙ?
?ينَ ÙÂÙ‰ Ù‚ÙÂÙ„ÙÂÙˆÃ?
?¨ÙÂÙ‡ÙÂÙ…Ùâ?
??™ زَيْغÙÅ?
??]
(So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation) meaning, those who are misguided and deviate from truth to falsehood,
[ÙÂَيَتÙâ€
˜Ã™Å½Ã˜Â¨Ã™ÂعÙÂÙˆ
نَ مَا تَشَـب?
?™Å½Ã™â€¡Ã™Å½ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™Â]
(they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof) meaning, they refer to the Mutashabih, because they are able to alter its meanings to conform with their false interpretation since the wordings of the Mutashabihat encompass such a wide area of meanings.
Part 1
The Mutashabihat and Muhkamat Ayat (basic or fundamental and not of well-established meaning)
Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone. And there are Ayat in the Qur'an that are Mutashabihat not entirely clear for many, or some people. So those who refer to the Muhkam Ayat to understand the Mutashabih Ayat, will have acquired the correct guidance, and vice versa.
This is why Allah said,
[Ù‡ÙÂنَّ
Ø£ÙÂمّ٠الْكÙÂÃ?
?ªÙŽÙ€Ø¨ÙÂ]
(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,
[ÙˆÙŽØ£ÙÂخَ?
?˜Â±Ã™Â Ù…ÙÂتَشَ
ـبÙÂÙ‡ÙŽÙ
€ØªÙŒ]
(And others not entirely clear) as they have several meanings, some that agree with the Muhkam and some that carry other literal indications, although these meaning might not be desired.
The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented. As for the Mutashabihat Ayat, they include the abrogated Ayat, parables, oaths, and what should be believed in, but not implemented.
Muhammad bin Ishaq bin Yasar commented on,
[Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ?
??¡Ã™Â آيَـتÙÅ??
? مّÙÂØÂÙ’?
?™Æ’ÙŽÙ…ÙŽÙ€Ø
ªÙŒ]
(In it are verses that are entirely clear) as "Containing proof of the Lord, immunity for the servants and a refutation of opponents and of falsehood. They cannot be changed or altered from what they were meant for.'' He also said, "As for the unclear Ayat, they can (but must not) be altered and changed, and this is a test from Allah to the servants, just as He tested them with the allowed and prohibited things. So these Ayat must not be altered to imply a false meaning or be distorted from the truth.Therefore, Allah said,
[ÙÂÙŽØ£ÙŽÙ…Ùâ
€˜Ã™Å½Ã˜Â§ الَّذÙ?
?ينَ ÙÂÙ‰ Ù‚ÙÂÙ„ÙÂÙˆÃ?
?¨ÙÂÙ‡ÙÂÙ…Ùâ?
??™ زَيْغÙÅ?
??]
(So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation) meaning, those who are misguided and deviate from truth to falsehood,
[ÙÂَيَتÙâ€
˜Ã™Å½Ã˜Â¨Ã™ÂعÙÂÙˆ
نَ مَا تَشَـب?
?™Å½Ã™â€¡Ã™Å½ Ù…ÙÂنْÙâ??
?¡Ã™Â]
(they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof) meaning, they refer to the Mutashabih, because they are able to alter its meanings to conform with their false interpretation since the wordings of the Mutashabihat encompass such a wide area of meanings.
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written by Sakaratul Maut, January 01, 2008 01:32:22
written by Sakaratul Maut, January 01, 2008 01:32:22
Alhamdulillah, selamat tahun baru saya ucapkan kepada muslimin & muslimat, and to all non-muslim termasuklah juga kepada golong Murtad/munafik.
Selangkah kita ke tahun baru bukan bererti umur kita semakin panjang tapi kita semakin menghampirkan diri kepada “kematian/sakaratul maut†dan Alam Barzakh. Kita perlu beristiqamah dan meningkatkan amal Ibadah kita kepada Allah Azza wajallah.
Janganlah kita mati dalam keadaan kafir atau munafik/murtad seperti Firman Allah Ta’ala;
“Sesiapa yang murtad daripada agamanya dan mati, dia adalah kafir. Amalan-amalan (baik) mereka musnah di dunia dan akhirat. Mereka menjadi penghuni neraka yang kekal didalamnya.
And if any of you Turn back from their faith And die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit In this life and Hereafter; The will be Companions of the File And will abide thereinâ€Â.- (Al-Baqarah : 217)
“Allah menjanjikan orang-orang munafik lelaki dan perempuan serta orang-orang kafir dengan Neraka Jahanam, mereka kekal di dalamnya. Cukuplah Neraka itu menjadi balasan mereka dan Allah melaknatkan mereka dan bagi mereka azab seksa yang kekal.
Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment.†- (Surah At Taubah : 6
Tahun baru disambut gembira oleh kaum Kristian apabila lesen The Herald telah diluluskan. Walaupun ada negatifnya, tapi saya memandang dari sudut positif. Di mana kini golongan kafir kristian akan mula mengucap nama Allah… Allah… Allah…
InshaAllah di masa yang akan datang, dengan hidayah Allah mereka akan belajar pula mengucap Allahu Rabbi…. Dan Allahu Akbar….
Dan berkemungkinan juga ramai antara mereka akan juga belajar untuk mengucapkan kalimah “LaillahaillAllah, Muhammadd RasullAllahâ€Â
Kepada semua kaum muslimin/muslimat kita sama-sama berdoa semoga mereka akan mendapat hidayah Allah dan semoga saudara kita yang telah murtad turut mendapat semua petunjuk dari Allah.
“Dan sesungguhnya Kami telah datangkan kepada mereka, sebuah kitab (Al-Quran) yang kami telah menjelaskanya satu persatu berdasarkan pengetahuan (Kami yang meliputi segala-galanya), untuk menjadi hidayah pentunjuk dan rahmat, bagi orang-orang yang (mahu) beriman.
For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believeâ€Â. (Surah Al A’raf : 52)
Selamat Beribadah kepada ALLAH.
Selangkah kita ke tahun baru bukan bererti umur kita semakin panjang tapi kita semakin menghampirkan diri kepada “kematian/sakaratul maut†dan Alam Barzakh. Kita perlu beristiqamah dan meningkatkan amal Ibadah kita kepada Allah Azza wajallah.
Janganlah kita mati dalam keadaan kafir atau munafik/murtad seperti Firman Allah Ta’ala;
“Sesiapa yang murtad daripada agamanya dan mati, dia adalah kafir. Amalan-amalan (baik) mereka musnah di dunia dan akhirat. Mereka menjadi penghuni neraka yang kekal didalamnya.
And if any of you Turn back from their faith And die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit In this life and Hereafter; The will be Companions of the File And will abide thereinâ€Â.- (Al-Baqarah : 217)
“Allah menjanjikan orang-orang munafik lelaki dan perempuan serta orang-orang kafir dengan Neraka Jahanam, mereka kekal di dalamnya. Cukuplah Neraka itu menjadi balasan mereka dan Allah melaknatkan mereka dan bagi mereka azab seksa yang kekal.
Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment.†- (Surah At Taubah : 6
Tahun baru disambut gembira oleh kaum Kristian apabila lesen The Herald telah diluluskan. Walaupun ada negatifnya, tapi saya memandang dari sudut positif. Di mana kini golongan kafir kristian akan mula mengucap nama Allah… Allah… Allah…
InshaAllah di masa yang akan datang, dengan hidayah Allah mereka akan belajar pula mengucap Allahu Rabbi…. Dan Allahu Akbar….
Dan berkemungkinan juga ramai antara mereka akan juga belajar untuk mengucapkan kalimah “LaillahaillAllah, Muhammadd RasullAllahâ€Â
Kepada semua kaum muslimin/muslimat kita sama-sama berdoa semoga mereka akan mendapat hidayah Allah dan semoga saudara kita yang telah murtad turut mendapat semua petunjuk dari Allah.
“Dan sesungguhnya Kami telah datangkan kepada mereka, sebuah kitab (Al-Quran) yang kami telah menjelaskanya satu persatu berdasarkan pengetahuan (Kami yang meliputi segala-galanya), untuk menjadi hidayah pentunjuk dan rahmat, bagi orang-orang yang (mahu) beriman.
For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believeâ€Â. (Surah Al A’raf : 52)
Selamat Beribadah kepada ALLAH.
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written by DontPlayGod, December 31, 2007 14:10:31
written by DontPlayGod, December 31, 2007 14:10:31
Shamadz72 wrote:
" agree with your point. So guys, from now on when you see someone started to shout "Allah Akhbar" before blowing themselves up remember that person is not necessary a Muslim. there is a big chances that he is a Christian terrorist. Thank you to guys for enlightening me"
Everybody in the whole wide world knows that Muslims are committing terrorist acts and blowing themselves and others in the name of Allah for donkey years. Have you heard of Buddhist or Christian terrorist blowing themselves or carrying out terrorist activities?
" agree with your point. So guys, from now on when you see someone started to shout "Allah Akhbar" before blowing themselves up remember that person is not necessary a Muslim. there is a big chances that he is a Christian terrorist. Thank you to guys for enlightening me"
Everybody in the whole wide world knows that Muslims are committing terrorist acts and blowing themselves and others in the name of Allah for donkey years. Have you heard of Buddhist or Christian terrorist blowing themselves or carrying out terrorist activities?
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written by monstercat, December 31, 2007 12:29:18
written by monstercat, December 31, 2007 12:29:18
Hello christopher and cruzeiro,
Yeah, I just have to say something to people like this maut guy. It is very typical that they are so ignorant and easily fooled. Or could it be they wish the stupid news to be true so that they can rejoice that a Christian has "finally discovered the truth" and they can finally claim "see, your ex-priest saw the truth and is on the right track; so why don't you follow you ex-priest?" Or it could be they knew the story is made-up, but they still use it lah, to gain mileage. If you were to surf the internet for stories like that especially those from pro-Islamic sites, then try to check such stories for authencity, be prepared to be disappointed. There was one such site that claimed such and such Professor did a study on Christianity to compare against Islam, and found that of course in favour of Islam. When you try to check out the Professor's name, nada, cannot find who he is. Very typical. They wish to target those few percent of people who are easily fooled.
And hello taliban_d_padang_pasir,
Please kindly define established meaning???? Men of understanding is very subjective! There are many levels of understanding. Not all men can understand the same thing given the same amount of time. Thus, whosoever CLAIMED to have understood and declare "We believe in the Book...." are considered men of understanding despite having a harem at his 24-hour service, despite having killed his slaves in anger, despite having secret fetishes like ***** too offensive to mention here.
Everytime when Islam is criticised, those who (not you taliban, I meant generally) want to defend it usually would say Bible is also like that! Bible also got a lot of violence, vulgarity, a lot of sinning, a lot of this and that etc. Very typically defensive nature. Be confident with your scriptures, then you don't have to compare it against other books. Good luck.
Happy new year everyone, yes even to you Sakaratul Maut!
Yeah, I just have to say something to people like this maut guy. It is very typical that they are so ignorant and easily fooled. Or could it be they wish the stupid news to be true so that they can rejoice that a Christian has "finally discovered the truth" and they can finally claim "see, your ex-priest saw the truth and is on the right track; so why don't you follow you ex-priest?" Or it could be they knew the story is made-up, but they still use it lah, to gain mileage. If you were to surf the internet for stories like that especially those from pro-Islamic sites, then try to check such stories for authencity, be prepared to be disappointed. There was one such site that claimed such and such Professor did a study on Christianity to compare against Islam, and found that of course in favour of Islam. When you try to check out the Professor's name, nada, cannot find who he is. Very typical. They wish to target those few percent of people who are easily fooled.
And hello taliban_d_padang_pasir,
Please kindly define established meaning???? Men of understanding is very subjective! There are many levels of understanding. Not all men can understand the same thing given the same amount of time. Thus, whosoever CLAIMED to have understood and declare "We believe in the Book...." are considered men of understanding despite having a harem at his 24-hour service, despite having killed his slaves in anger, despite having secret fetishes like ***** too offensive to mention here.
Everytime when Islam is criticised, those who (not you taliban, I meant generally) want to defend it usually would say Bible is also like that! Bible also got a lot of violence, vulgarity, a lot of sinning, a lot of this and that etc. Very typically defensive nature. Be confident with your scriptures, then you don't have to compare it against other books. Good luck.
Happy new year everyone, yes even to you Sakaratul Maut!
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, December 31, 2007 09:02:11
written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, December 31, 2007 09:02:11
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-Baqarah> Verse 2
This is the book; in it is guidance, sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-Baqarah> Verse 23
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-i-'Imran> Verse 7
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not of well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Hud> Verse 17
Can they be (like) those who accept a Clear (Sign) from their Lord, and whom a witness from Himself doth teach, as did the Book of Moses before it, a guide and a mercy? They believe therein; but those of the Sects that reject it, the Fire will be their promised meeting-place. Be not then in doubt thereon: for it is the Truth from thy Lord: yet many among men do not believe!
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-'Ankabut> Verse 48
And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hands: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-'Ankabut> Verse 49
Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
http://www.al-islam.com/maknazlatin/Hits.asp?l=eng&p=0-4-1-&subjno=10&pathCount=2
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=29&tid=39959
This is the book; in it is guidance, sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-Baqarah> Verse 23
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-i-'Imran> Verse 7
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not of well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Hud> Verse 17
Can they be (like) those who accept a Clear (Sign) from their Lord, and whom a witness from Himself doth teach, as did the Book of Moses before it, a guide and a mercy? They believe therein; but those of the Sects that reject it, the Fire will be their promised meeting-place. Be not then in doubt thereon: for it is the Truth from thy Lord: yet many among men do not believe!
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-'Ankabut> Verse 48
And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hands: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.
The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-'Ankabut> Verse 49
Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
http://www.al-islam.com/maknazlatin/Hits.asp?l=eng&p=0-4-1-&subjno=10&pathCount=2
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=29&tid=39959
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written by zhanyiyi, December 31, 2007 05:33:50
written by zhanyiyi, December 31, 2007 05:33:50
Bless you RPK for writing such an article. God has not exclusivity on humanity. The sun shines on every individual-Jews, Christians and Muslims. Mohamed was just a man like Jesus, and the Good Lord made no distinctions between the two. All relgions do not practise exclusivity, so I hope my Mulsims friends will ponder upon this universal message: Do unto others as you would do to yourself.
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written by cruzeiro, December 31, 2007 03:27:50
written by cruzeiro, December 31, 2007 03:27:50
Dear Monstercat & Chris,
I'm glad that you guys responded to this Sakaratul whacko - I for one, had a good laugh on reading his comment.
There are plenty of them who love to quote "quacks" to "prove" their legitimacy. In general, these guys insist on living in their tempurungs. They don't mind looking foolish, as long as they can take a few gullible fools for a ride.
This isn't a problem with only the Muslims, though - quacks disguised as "godmen" (in all religions) has always been there in all religions, as long as religion itself.
And it will continue to be so in all primitive societies.
The only way to counter them is freedom of education, speech and thought - and that is sorely lacking in Malaysia.
I'm glad that you guys responded to this Sakaratul whacko - I for one, had a good laugh on reading his comment.
There are plenty of them who love to quote "quacks" to "prove" their legitimacy. In general, these guys insist on living in their tempurungs. They don't mind looking foolish, as long as they can take a few gullible fools for a ride.
This isn't a problem with only the Muslims, though - quacks disguised as "godmen" (in all religions) has always been there in all religions, as long as religion itself.
And it will continue to be so in all primitive societies.
The only way to counter them is freedom of education, speech and thought - and that is sorely lacking in Malaysia.
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written by Y1, December 31, 2007 01:51:44
written by Y1, December 31, 2007 01:51:44
Danagi
How can it be habis cerita? Bumiputra yang beragama Kristian di Sabah dan Sarawak sudah biasa guna nama Allah sebelum masuk Malaysia. Apa perasaan mereka?
How can it be habis cerita? Bumiputra yang beragama Kristian di Sabah dan Sarawak sudah biasa guna nama Allah sebelum masuk Malaysia. Apa perasaan mereka?
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written by danagi, December 31, 2007 01:43:33
written by danagi, December 31, 2007 01:43:33
kalau kristian nak sangat guna bahasa melayu...pakai sahaja 'tuhan' habis cerita.
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written by danagi, December 31, 2007 01:42:48
written by danagi, December 31, 2007 01:42:48
kalau kristian nak sangat guna bahasa melayu, pakai sahaja 'tuhan' tamat cerita.
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written by Seng Ngiap, December 30, 2007 18:17:09
written by Seng Ngiap, December 30, 2007 18:17:09
I totally agree with temenggong. Even Sakyamuni Buddha before become englighten, he used to meditate also. Meditation is the key to englightenment. Many script didnt mention about our Jesus, Muhammad and Sakyamuni receiving discipleship from their gurus, but indeed they really did learnt it from their guru. Most of the stories only tell that they are born to be the 'one' who spread the light, the one who remind us that all of us have Christ, Buddha nature, Allah inside us. All pointing at the same direction. Different time and place used different term to refer the God or Creator. Jesus teaches us the Christ inside us, the teaching people follow and they regard it as Christianity now. Sakyamuni teaches bodhi inside us, the teaching people follow, they regard it as Buddhism now, same to all other religion. Supposingly this will lead us to unity where we regards each other as brother and sister, but sadly this religion has separated human beings now. Even worst still religion is use to fuel war.
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written by Christopher, December 30, 2007 17:55:34
written by Christopher, December 30, 2007 17:55:34
Oh sorry, I wish to say that I am a Catholic and as a Catholic, I also read books and magazines of other religions. I do not have any qualms about that as my faith is solid as a rock. And I also wish to apologise for the spelling errors in the above article as I had written it in a hurry and did not have time to proof read.
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written by Christopher, December 30, 2007 17:48:58
written by Christopher, December 30, 2007 17:48:58
I would love to explain to Sakaratul Maut about his comment on the so called Catholic Priest who became a Muslim just before he was to have been promoted to a Catholic High Priest. First, we don’t have a thing called a high priest. It could be that claimed that he was to have been promoted a bishop or an Archbishop.
Well, my challenge to Sakaratul Maut is this: Produce the Ustaz in public in front of a couple of Catholic Priest with some Syariah judges and Police Special Branch as witnesses. Get witnesses from Pusat Islam as well. My challenge will be that this fraud who calls himself an Ustaz who also claims that he was an ex Catholic Priest who was supposed to be a High Priest is a fraud of the first degree and that either he has made a fool of the Islamic Religious department with his claims or is in cahoots with the Religious Department to lie to Muslims and non Muslims alike on his credentials and claims.
I am very sure all Muslims worth his faith would want to prove the integrity of the Islamic Department if it was involved in propagating these claims and lies of this so called Ustaz. I do not believe any Muslims would want to be party to a confidence trickster or a liar who has been fooling the Islamic Religious Department and all Muslims alike (if what I read was true). I am also sure that the Islamic Department would like to clear its name if it was really involved with this fraudster as it would be the cheapest and most devious way to get converts to Islam by lying or by any other crooked ways. Or is it Islamic to use the tricks of the Devil to get converts to Islam. Shame on Muslims if that is Islamic.
Coming to the point about this Ustaz. Yes, I had read about this so called ex priest in an Islamic magazine which at that time had an office near Tawakkal Hospital. I daresay, when I read that magazine, I did try to call the publishers but no one was answering the calls. I also know that the Catholic Church had written to tell them that there was no such Catholic priest in Malaysia with the name given, then or ever. This magazine also, in the good name of Islam , should check the authenticity of this so called ex-priest’s claim. There is no religion which stoops so low as to be party to a liar or the devil to propagate its believes or of God and Allah. I have read many articles in this magazine about Christianity where I can say were untruths, lies or misinformed.
If I remember well, this Ustaz had claimed he met the Pope and had discussions which stumped the Pope. Even our former Prime Minister had to apply to the Vatican to be given an invitation for an audience. Even though the Popes are simple people and very approachable, it is not that easy for a priest to meet him in his private residence to discuss on the church’s teachings.
Most Catholics know what the Final Rites or the Rite of Anointing of the Sick is. The words can be easily available in many books, so this so called Ustaz has again lied as to the words used in this Rite. Any Catholic would laugh if they were told that the words used were as written by Sakaratul maut. I repeat his assertation: “At the end of his course, he was taught to say prayer/doa kepada orang Kristian yang diambang sakaratul maut (dying). The last prayer/doa yang diajarkan kepada dying kirstian tidak lain selain…. “There no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messangerâ€Â…. Iaitulah kalimah syahadah yang umat Islam lafaskan.â€Â
All Christians please verify this and have a good laugh at what an Islamic Ustaz in Malaysia is preaching to his followers who believe blindly.
He had also claimed that he was employed by the Melaka Islamic department to head the Christology section due to his in depth knowledge of Christianity. If that was true, How could they have been fooed by a fraud? ( Oh sorry, did Melaka government at one time employ some high tech weatherman to bring rain into the state ?)
The many things about the Catholic faith that was written in that Islamic magazine from the interview with this fraud who claimed that he was an ex priest but now an Ustaz is laughable, idiotic and if ever it was a devious scheme to convert others – foolish, stupid unresearched trash fit for the devil’s scheme and not for true Islam.
Please, Sakaratul Maut, bring out this Ustaz in public for the sake of the integrity and honour of Islam, and let me show you the fraud he is. There was never such a Catholic priest or high priest in Malaysia.
Well, my challenge to Sakaratul Maut is this: Produce the Ustaz in public in front of a couple of Catholic Priest with some Syariah judges and Police Special Branch as witnesses. Get witnesses from Pusat Islam as well. My challenge will be that this fraud who calls himself an Ustaz who also claims that he was an ex Catholic Priest who was supposed to be a High Priest is a fraud of the first degree and that either he has made a fool of the Islamic Religious department with his claims or is in cahoots with the Religious Department to lie to Muslims and non Muslims alike on his credentials and claims.
I am very sure all Muslims worth his faith would want to prove the integrity of the Islamic Department if it was involved in propagating these claims and lies of this so called Ustaz. I do not believe any Muslims would want to be party to a confidence trickster or a liar who has been fooling the Islamic Religious Department and all Muslims alike (if what I read was true). I am also sure that the Islamic Department would like to clear its name if it was really involved with this fraudster as it would be the cheapest and most devious way to get converts to Islam by lying or by any other crooked ways. Or is it Islamic to use the tricks of the Devil to get converts to Islam. Shame on Muslims if that is Islamic.
Coming to the point about this Ustaz. Yes, I had read about this so called ex priest in an Islamic magazine which at that time had an office near Tawakkal Hospital. I daresay, when I read that magazine, I did try to call the publishers but no one was answering the calls. I also know that the Catholic Church had written to tell them that there was no such Catholic priest in Malaysia with the name given, then or ever. This magazine also, in the good name of Islam , should check the authenticity of this so called ex-priest’s claim. There is no religion which stoops so low as to be party to a liar or the devil to propagate its believes or of God and Allah. I have read many articles in this magazine about Christianity where I can say were untruths, lies or misinformed.
If I remember well, this Ustaz had claimed he met the Pope and had discussions which stumped the Pope. Even our former Prime Minister had to apply to the Vatican to be given an invitation for an audience. Even though the Popes are simple people and very approachable, it is not that easy for a priest to meet him in his private residence to discuss on the church’s teachings.
Most Catholics know what the Final Rites or the Rite of Anointing of the Sick is. The words can be easily available in many books, so this so called Ustaz has again lied as to the words used in this Rite. Any Catholic would laugh if they were told that the words used were as written by Sakaratul maut. I repeat his assertation: “At the end of his course, he was taught to say prayer/doa kepada orang Kristian yang diambang sakaratul maut (dying). The last prayer/doa yang diajarkan kepada dying kirstian tidak lain selain…. “There no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messangerâ€Â…. Iaitulah kalimah syahadah yang umat Islam lafaskan.â€Â
All Christians please verify this and have a good laugh at what an Islamic Ustaz in Malaysia is preaching to his followers who believe blindly.
He had also claimed that he was employed by the Melaka Islamic department to head the Christology section due to his in depth knowledge of Christianity. If that was true, How could they have been fooed by a fraud? ( Oh sorry, did Melaka government at one time employ some high tech weatherman to bring rain into the state ?)
The many things about the Catholic faith that was written in that Islamic magazine from the interview with this fraud who claimed that he was an ex priest but now an Ustaz is laughable, idiotic and if ever it was a devious scheme to convert others – foolish, stupid unresearched trash fit for the devil’s scheme and not for true Islam.
Please, Sakaratul Maut, bring out this Ustaz in public for the sake of the integrity and honour of Islam, and let me show you the fraud he is. There was never such a Catholic priest or high priest in Malaysia.
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written by monstercat, December 30, 2007 13:54:47
written by monstercat, December 30, 2007 13:54:47
Sorry, here is the correct link:
http://discoverislampath.b******t.com/2007/09/did-sunita-williams-really-accepted.html
http://discoverislampath.b******t.com/2007/09/did-sunita-williams-really-accepted.html
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written by monstercat, December 30, 2007 13:51:29
written by monstercat, December 30, 2007 13:51:29
written by Sakaratul Maut, December 29, 2007 | 10:48:24
Before this I am not aware the church books/magazines use the word “Allahâ€Â. After reading all these argument, I recall a story I heard during one of the Islamic Ceramah (sermon) by Ustaz (who was ex-Priest/Paderi)
He was one of the top Priest in Malaysia at one time. Before dia nak ditabalkan Priest/Paderi tertinggi di Malaysia, dia telah menjalani kursus di Rome, Italy. At the end of his course, he was taught to say prayer/doa kepada orang Kristian yang diambang sakaratul maut (dying). The last prayer/doa yang diajarkan kepada dying kirstian tidak lain selain…. “There no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messangerâ€Â…. Iaitulah kalimah syahadah yang umat Islam lafaskan. After returning home from Italy, he referred to Pej Agama Islam and convert to Islam, kerana dia merasakan bahwa Kristian buakanlah agama yang sebenarnya di sisi Allah.
I think that is the reason the Church/Christians want to use the word “Allahâ€Â. After all Nabi Isa A.S (Jesus) diutuskan Allah kepada kaum Nasarah untuk mengajar agama Islam dan beriman kepada Allah, sepertimana firman Allah;
“Sesungguhnya agama (yang benar dan diredai) di sisi Allah ialah Islam. Dan orang-orang (Yahudi dan Nasrani) yang diberikan kitab itu tidak berselisih (mengenai ugama Islam dan enggan menerimanya) melainkan setelah sampai kepada mereka pengetahuan yang sah tentang kebenarannya; (perselisihan itu pula) semata-mata kerana hasad dengki yang ada dalam kalangan mereka. Dan (ingatlah), sesiapa yang kufur ingkar akan ayat-ayat keterangan Allah, maka sesungguhnya Allah amat segera hitungan hisabNya.â€Â
The Religion before Allah Is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book Dissent therefrom except Through envy of each other, After knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
(Surah Ali-Imran : 19)
Wallahualam.
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Dear Sakaratul Maut,
It’s so convenient that you suddenly recall such a mind-blowing story about a top priest who had to go to Rome to learn to say the last rites to dying Christians. I’m sorry but I do not believe your story. Why don’t you provide the name of the ex-priest? Don’t worry, he will not receive death threats from the Christian community.
Such gimmicks are used by zealots to always put Christianity as a false religion, and in turn proclaim Islam to be the one and only true religion. They would make all sorts of claims and stories to win as many people over as possible – like hoodwink. Eg. an email I received exalting in the conversion of a Sunita Williams, whom I had checked out because I didn’t know who she was. I bet most of you received this email before:
Assalamualaikum...! An important message to all Muslim brothers and sisters : Sunita Williams ( First Indian woman who went on a space journey few months back) accepted "ISLAM" Masha Allah, bcoz when they were on the moon, they saw towards EARTH, the entire EARTH looked dark, but 2 places on the EARTH GLITERED & looked like SPARKS (Roshni) . They were shocked to see that and saw them with the help of telescope and came to know that those two places were "MAKKAH" and "MADINAH" Masha Allah!. Then they decided that after reaching to earth they'll accept "ISLAM". Thats y they reached safely following this glitering light. So be proud to a muslim and forward it to all like fire. Allah Hafiz...!
Please check this link - http://discoverislamath.b*****...epted.html
From that one false claim, all Muslims believe, oh no, they won’t dare not believe; oh, they praise “Allah†for another one seeing the truth lah....blah blah blah.......... I’ve got a better one, similarly like your experience a story I heard from a Muslim who went to Mecca for haj. He went to the Kaabah and guess what he saw all Muslims were bowing down to??? Well, I do not want to say because it sounded too ridiculous and offensive. But did I believe his story? I just gave him the benefit of the doubt and to him his believe.
Before this I am not aware the church books/magazines use the word “Allahâ€Â. After reading all these argument, I recall a story I heard during one of the Islamic Ceramah (sermon) by Ustaz (who was ex-Priest/Paderi)
He was one of the top Priest in Malaysia at one time. Before dia nak ditabalkan Priest/Paderi tertinggi di Malaysia, dia telah menjalani kursus di Rome, Italy. At the end of his course, he was taught to say prayer/doa kepada orang Kristian yang diambang sakaratul maut (dying). The last prayer/doa yang diajarkan kepada dying kirstian tidak lain selain…. “There no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messangerâ€Â…. Iaitulah kalimah syahadah yang umat Islam lafaskan. After returning home from Italy, he referred to Pej Agama Islam and convert to Islam, kerana dia merasakan bahwa Kristian buakanlah agama yang sebenarnya di sisi Allah.
I think that is the reason the Church/Christians want to use the word “Allahâ€Â. After all Nabi Isa A.S (Jesus) diutuskan Allah kepada kaum Nasarah untuk mengajar agama Islam dan beriman kepada Allah, sepertimana firman Allah;
“Sesungguhnya agama (yang benar dan diredai) di sisi Allah ialah Islam. Dan orang-orang (Yahudi dan Nasrani) yang diberikan kitab itu tidak berselisih (mengenai ugama Islam dan enggan menerimanya) melainkan setelah sampai kepada mereka pengetahuan yang sah tentang kebenarannya; (perselisihan itu pula) semata-mata kerana hasad dengki yang ada dalam kalangan mereka. Dan (ingatlah), sesiapa yang kufur ingkar akan ayat-ayat keterangan Allah, maka sesungguhnya Allah amat segera hitungan hisabNya.â€Â
The Religion before Allah Is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book Dissent therefrom except Through envy of each other, After knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
(Surah Ali-Imran : 19)
Wallahualam.
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Dear Sakaratul Maut,
It’s so convenient that you suddenly recall such a mind-blowing story about a top priest who had to go to Rome to learn to say the last rites to dying Christians. I’m sorry but I do not believe your story. Why don’t you provide the name of the ex-priest? Don’t worry, he will not receive death threats from the Christian community.
Such gimmicks are used by zealots to always put Christianity as a false religion, and in turn proclaim Islam to be the one and only true religion. They would make all sorts of claims and stories to win as many people over as possible – like hoodwink. Eg. an email I received exalting in the conversion of a Sunita Williams, whom I had checked out because I didn’t know who she was. I bet most of you received this email before:
Assalamualaikum...! An important message to all Muslim brothers and sisters : Sunita Williams ( First Indian woman who went on a space journey few months back) accepted "ISLAM" Masha Allah, bcoz when they were on the moon, they saw towards EARTH, the entire EARTH looked dark, but 2 places on the EARTH GLITERED & looked like SPARKS (Roshni) . They were shocked to see that and saw them with the help of telescope and came to know that those two places were "MAKKAH" and "MADINAH" Masha Allah!. Then they decided that after reaching to earth they'll accept "ISLAM". Thats y they reached safely following this glitering light. So be proud to a muslim and forward it to all like fire. Allah Hafiz...!
Please check this link - http://discoverislamath.b*****...epted.html
From that one false claim, all Muslims believe, oh no, they won’t dare not believe; oh, they praise “Allah†for another one seeing the truth lah....blah blah blah.......... I’ve got a better one, similarly like your experience a story I heard from a Muslim who went to Mecca for haj. He went to the Kaabah and guess what he saw all Muslims were bowing down to??? Well, I do not want to say because it sounded too ridiculous and offensive. But did I believe his story? I just gave him the benefit of the doubt and to him his believe.
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written by monstercat, December 30, 2007 13:03:55
written by monstercat, December 30, 2007 13:03:55
written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 | 16:03:53
Temenggong. I disagree with your comment. Do you think it is ok if say the Indian christian bible want to use the word "Shiva" to refer to their Jessus? Don't you think the Indian & their Hindraf group will be jumping over it?
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To shamadz72
Arabic version bible will of course use “Allah†for God. And please answer us why must Indian Christians refer to our Lord Jesus Christ as Shiva???? Jesus Christ already has a name, isn’t it stupid (sorry I can’t help it) to suggest calling him another name??? And Shiva is also a name of a Hindu deity – Lord Shiva right? Correct me if I’m wrong. But I do not have to know Hindu God to know the difference between a name and a noun.
Well, if the rukun negara is change, so be it. But the govt and relevant parties must first educate the rakyat on the meaning of “Allahâ€Â. Can someone, perhaps a language expert confirm that there’s a difference between Tuhan and Allah besides one being BM and one being Arabic?
Temenggong. I disagree with your comment. Do you think it is ok if say the Indian christian bible want to use the word "Shiva" to refer to their Jessus? Don't you think the Indian & their Hindraf group will be jumping over it?
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To shamadz72
Arabic version bible will of course use “Allah†for God. And please answer us why must Indian Christians refer to our Lord Jesus Christ as Shiva???? Jesus Christ already has a name, isn’t it stupid (sorry I can’t help it) to suggest calling him another name??? And Shiva is also a name of a Hindu deity – Lord Shiva right? Correct me if I’m wrong. But I do not have to know Hindu God to know the difference between a name and a noun.
Well, if the rukun negara is change, so be it. But the govt and relevant parties must first educate the rakyat on the meaning of “Allahâ€Â. Can someone, perhaps a language expert confirm that there’s a difference between Tuhan and Allah besides one being BM and one being Arabic?
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written by The dragonheart, December 30, 2007 08:12:36
written by The dragonheart, December 30, 2007 08:12:36
kzso,
PAS is keeping quiet becoz the facts are right and they might have a better solution to solve the problem rather than jumpping like a mad man on the bed like johari did... if they tell the solution now, UMNO might use it for them to cover their naked ass. I think it is better for all these tunggul kayu do show all their birth marks on their ass to the world at large. serve them right to talk abt things which are not their playing field.
PAS is keeping quiet becoz the facts are right and they might have a better solution to solve the problem rather than jumpping like a mad man on the bed like johari did... if they tell the solution now, UMNO might use it for them to cover their naked ass. I think it is better for all these tunggul kayu do show all their birth marks on their ass to the world at large. serve them right to talk abt things which are not their playing field.
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written by krising1, December 30, 2007 01:32:44
written by krising1, December 30, 2007 01:32:44
In today's Star, Mr. Wong has advised the two groups who filed the papers to meet the PM first instead of pursuing the the matter thru the court. I am sure Mr. Wong has been advised to write this as a face saving grace for the Mr Bodoh. He may want to put an end to this contraversy.
So the word "Allah" was in the bible even before there was a Quran. And now the unlearned minister claims it to be proprietory for the Muslims only.
RPK, I am sure you will agree to be an "expert witness" based on your extensive study of the history of Islam and the Quran when the two trials begin. Whover they produce as their expert can be demolised in 5 minutes in the witness. Then the Christians can shout Allah-hu Akbar in court.
So the word "Allah" was in the bible even before there was a Quran. And now the unlearned minister claims it to be proprietory for the Muslims only.
RPK, I am sure you will agree to be an "expert witness" based on your extensive study of the history of Islam and the Quran when the two trials begin. Whover they produce as their expert can be demolised in 5 minutes in the witness. Then the Christians can shout Allah-hu Akbar in court.
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written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 16:22:08
written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 16:22:08
temenggong, December 29, 2007 | 23:35:54
From Malaysiakini:
"Otto Steinmayer, PhD: Actually, the original ‘Malay’ word for God is ‘Hyang’ or ‘Sang Hyang'.
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Hehe.... If you dig any further you will find out that the right word been used during the stoneage might be 'waga waga'
From Malaysiakini:
"Otto Steinmayer, PhD: Actually, the original ‘Malay’ word for God is ‘Hyang’ or ‘Sang Hyang'.
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Hehe.... If you dig any further you will find out that the right word been used during the stoneage might be 'waga waga'
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written by temenggong, December 29, 2007 15:35:54
written by temenggong, December 29, 2007 15:35:54
From Malaysiakini:
"Otto Steinmayer, PhD: Actually, the original ‘Malay’ word for God is ‘Hyang’ or ‘Sang Hyang’. The word for ‘pray’ - sembayang - comes from the combination ‘sembah Hyang’. I have put ‘Malay’ in quotation marks because the word ‘Hyang’ can be traced back to at least 1,500 years ago before the Malay language, as it is now, existed."
I can vouch for that as I travelled quite widely in the nusantara. 'Ida San Hyang Widi Wasa' is the name for god in east java, bali and lombok!
"Otto Steinmayer, PhD: Actually, the original ‘Malay’ word for God is ‘Hyang’ or ‘Sang Hyang’. The word for ‘pray’ - sembayang - comes from the combination ‘sembah Hyang’. I have put ‘Malay’ in quotation marks because the word ‘Hyang’ can be traced back to at least 1,500 years ago before the Malay language, as it is now, existed."
I can vouch for that as I travelled quite widely in the nusantara. 'Ida San Hyang Widi Wasa' is the name for god in east java, bali and lombok!
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written by Dreamlander, December 29, 2007 15:21:56
written by Dreamlander, December 29, 2007 15:21:56
Dear ALL, Let us refer to Article 1 of the Indonesian state ideology (PANCA SILA) for guidance. It mentioned (in Bahasa Indonesian) as its FIRST ARTICLE (PRINCIPLE) (1) Belief in the one and only God (Ketuhanan yang Maha Esa). It requires every Indonesian to profess a religion that believes in GOD. Therefore the word "TUHAN" can be used to denote GOD without distinction to any religion. The current impasse in Malaysia over the use of ALLAH in Bahasa Malaysia Christian literature can be amicably settled if all parties adopt this approach.
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written by kzso, December 29, 2007 13:25:56
written by kzso, December 29, 2007 13:25:56
Yes, it was a Christian who in a way 'anointed' Muhammad as the Prophet of Islam....convinced Khatijah that Muhammad was not going mad but had been chosen by God as the next Prophet
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This is because Khadijah's cousin the learned Christian is using the Old Testament!
Hmmm... why PAS and PKR is keeping quiet on this issue?
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This is because Khadijah's cousin the learned Christian is using the Old Testament!
Hmmm... why PAS and PKR is keeping quiet on this issue?
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written by MikeChen, December 29, 2007 13:24:51
written by MikeChen, December 29, 2007 13:24:51
My children is still my children no matter what they have done. I still love them and guide them. Unless they choose to walk out on me, it is their choice and the consequence they have to face with.
Simlarly I know God/Allah loves us even while we were sinners. We have a choice to follow of reject Him. The consequences of our choice is up to us.
If Allah/God says do not murder and we deliberately do, the consequence of our choice is evident. A Christ follower is known by his fruit/deed that springs out from within a redeemed/renewed spirit within. If a person commits murder how can such a one be called a Christian because it is acting out from within himself? I can say with confidence, unless he repents he cannot be a Christian.
In that respect I doubt Hitler was a Christian. And this is where Islam and Christianity differs. One is born into Islam and he/she has no choice. Hitler might be born into a so called Christian nation/family (and there is no such thing as a Christian Nation) one does not automatically become a Christain unless one choose to follow Jesus Christ. We are given choices. I am afraid Islam does not allow such choice (at least as far as I know the brand of Islam practised in Malaysia)
Simlarly I know God/Allah loves us even while we were sinners. We have a choice to follow of reject Him. The consequences of our choice is up to us.
If Allah/God says do not murder and we deliberately do, the consequence of our choice is evident. A Christ follower is known by his fruit/deed that springs out from within a redeemed/renewed spirit within. If a person commits murder how can such a one be called a Christian because it is acting out from within himself? I can say with confidence, unless he repents he cannot be a Christian.
In that respect I doubt Hitler was a Christian. And this is where Islam and Christianity differs. One is born into Islam and he/she has no choice. Hitler might be born into a so called Christian nation/family (and there is no such thing as a Christian Nation) one does not automatically become a Christain unless one choose to follow Jesus Christ. We are given choices. I am afraid Islam does not allow such choice (at least as far as I know the brand of Islam practised in Malaysia)
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written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 13:09:26
written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 13:09:26
Y1, December 29, 2007 | 20:32:05
Shamadz72
I have never considered those who shout "Allah Akbar" when blowing themselves up to kill and maim others as Muslims or followers of God/Allah. They are demented violent people abused and controlled by demented violent people.
Unless the Muslims want to own such group. I have no say then.
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That is the different between you and me. For me a Muslim is someone who professed to Syahadah. What evil thing or good thing, it is up to Allah to decide to punish or to reward him during the judgement day. If the person who blow up themselves is a Muslim, than for me, I will still consider him a Muslim but a "misguided' one.
Don't tell me you wont admit your children if one of them become criminal. Or are you trying to say Hitler was not a Christian
Shamadz72
I have never considered those who shout "Allah Akbar" when blowing themselves up to kill and maim others as Muslims or followers of God/Allah. They are demented violent people abused and controlled by demented violent people.
Unless the Muslims want to own such group. I have no say then.
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That is the different between you and me. For me a Muslim is someone who professed to Syahadah. What evil thing or good thing, it is up to Allah to decide to punish or to reward him during the judgement day. If the person who blow up themselves is a Muslim, than for me, I will still consider him a Muslim but a "misguided' one.
Don't tell me you wont admit your children if one of them become criminal. Or are you trying to say Hitler was not a Christian
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written by Y1, December 29, 2007 12:32:05
written by Y1, December 29, 2007 12:32:05
Shamadz72
I have never considered those who shout "Allah Akbar" when blowing themselves up to kill and maim others as Muslims or followeres of God/Allah. They are demented violent people abused and controlled by demented violent people.
Unless the Muslims want to own such group. I have no say then.
I have never considered those who shout "Allah Akbar" when blowing themselves up to kill and maim others as Muslims or followeres of God/Allah. They are demented violent people abused and controlled by demented violent people.
Unless the Muslims want to own such group. I have no say then.
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written by omarkhayyam, December 29, 2007 12:15:50
written by omarkhayyam, December 29, 2007 12:15:50
"The hypocrisy of Muslims is so mind-boggling that sometimes I am ashamed to admit I am a Muslim. Stupid Muslims do and say stupid things while those who know better keep quiet and pretend what is being said and done by these stupid people is correct. Their silence and inaction in opposing and correcting transgressions and violations to Islam make these people guilty of complicity. Those who remain quiet are as guilty as those who commit these crimes against Islam."
Pete ... i dare to vouch and stand by you on this ...... "its d whole truth and nothing more than the absolute truth"
"lets speak it out and be stand by it"
cheers
Pete ... i dare to vouch and stand by you on this ...... "its d whole truth and nothing more than the absolute truth"
"lets speak it out and be stand by it"
cheers
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written by DontPlayGod, December 29, 2007 10:36:29
written by DontPlayGod, December 29, 2007 10:36:29
In a word, UMNO wants to monopolize Islam and use Islam as a political tool in controlling the Muslims. What other reason can there be? After all, using religion(in this case Islam) to control people is the most effective tool ever thought of by mankind.
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written by Justin, December 29, 2007 09:50:07
written by Justin, December 29, 2007 09:50:07
The UMNO wants to perpetuate a separate class for themselves so that they will be the only dominant party in this country forever. First they created the Bumiputra status for themselves. We know not all the Malays are really treated as bumiputras because most Malays do not enjoy the rights as most of the privileges are hijacked by this small exclusive group of UMNO chaps. All they do is keep preaching the good news to the Malays, sometimes frightening them too, get their votes and neglect them, promise more good news to them, scare them that the non-bumis are taking away all their rights and even warn them if they are not united with the UMNO, none of the bumis will ever survive in this country; but continue enriching themselves with wealth that will last a few generations. They do not want the ordinary Malays to open their eyes nor think for themselves. Their best strategy is to keep the different races as divided as possible so that they will be the ultimate masters and so-called saviors of the Malay race. It is very surprising than most Malays do not know about their own religion, the only “truth†they ever know is the endless streams of news fed by the UMNO media and politicians. Many Malays even do not know that the very term “BUMUPUTRA†is an Indian word and thus it cannot be applied to the Malays. So are the many words in the Malay vocabulary, customs, etc. They feel that if “Allah†is a term used by the Christians too, then our Malays will understand the closeness of Islam and Christianity and its common hisstory. This will certainly create a better response from the Muslims to other religious groups like the Christians and others too. But the UMNO sees this as a serious threat as they may lose their flock (the vote-base and power) who now understand the oneness of many religions. They need to keep the Malays from thinking, separating them from the Christians/others and thus they cannot accept the fact that “Allah†will be a unifying term for the different people in this country. They need to keep the Malays as ignorant as possible so that their power base is never diluted. If they lose the Malay votes, how are they going to survive the next election, who is going to feed them, how to build a house with 26 rooms and 10 bathrooms, have more wives, get all the licenses and contracts, how to fill up the briefcase with $8,000,000, etc.????. Thus we can see their motive. The races should not be united with a common understanding of their religions. No wonder, even in the primary schools, the Muslim students have Islamic studies and non-Muslims, the moral studies. What a sham. Can’t non-Muslims be taught their own religions in the schools? Even the largest Muslim country in the world is laughing at us.
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written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 09:40:42
written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 09:40:42
Ok Y1.
I agree with your point. So guys, from now on when you see someone started to shout "Allah Akhbar" before blowing themselves up remember that person is not necessary a Muslim. there is a big chances that he is a Christian terrorist. Thank you to guys for enlightening me
I agree with your point. So guys, from now on when you see someone started to shout "Allah Akhbar" before blowing themselves up remember that person is not necessary a Muslim. there is a big chances that he is a Christian terrorist. Thank you to guys for enlightening me
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written by Y1, December 29, 2007 09:14:19
written by Y1, December 29, 2007 09:14:19
written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 | 10:40:40
What the right translation? Bumiputra Christians in East Malaysia have used Allah before they joined Malaysia. So after joining Malaysia what was right before has become wrong? Do you mean that Sabah & Sarawak is wrong to join the Federation?
Joe Average Christians in West Malaysia will say Allah is God or God is Allah.
Joe Average (Christians and Muslims and others) will also say Allah is God or God is Allah.
Why are Muslims so insecure?
Just want to make sure that the Christian use the right translation in their bible
What the right translation? Bumiputra Christians in East Malaysia have used Allah before they joined Malaysia. So after joining Malaysia what was right before has become wrong? Do you mean that Sabah & Sarawak is wrong to join the Federation?
Just ask any joe average of any religion background on the street here in Malaysia who is "Allah" and I can bet my last cent that he surely going to point it towards Islam. So let us keep it that way.
Joe Average Christians in West Malaysia will say Allah is God or God is Allah.
Joe Average (Christians and Muslims and others) will also say Allah is God or God is Allah.
Why are Muslims so insecure?
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written by Century Patriot, December 29, 2007 08:58:54
written by Century Patriot, December 29, 2007 08:58:54
I hope everyone of us is mindful that the Gomen is playing this religious and racial game again bcos they realised that they are in grave danger of loosing many Malays'votes in this coming GE. As such, they hope by throwing in this spanner [ usage of word 'ALLAH'] they can create a common stand among the Malay Muslims due to negative and stupid verbal reactions.
So let's be MINDFUL. Comments by all means but please lets not be immature and hurtful, lest we play into the hands of these NIMCOOMPOOS.
So let's be MINDFUL. Comments by all means but please lets not be immature and hurtful, lest we play into the hands of these NIMCOOMPOOS.
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written by Archagnel, December 29, 2007 08:45:21
written by Archagnel, December 29, 2007 08:45:21
Very typical of Malaysians to lose sight of the actual issue! Do you realise that we are the butt of jokes these days? Peruse www.bbc.co.uk and the likes - we make the headlines for all the wrong reasons! We even made the 'most-emailed' list on this occasion!
In the above example, the source of grievance and dispute is the use of the word 'Allah'. This is NOT a Bahasa word. Now, what if the British were to do a Quallcomm (owner of CDMA patents) and insist on explicit permission on the use of English outside of the UK? Or Latin purists doing the same for derivatives such as Italian, French, etc.? This is, in effect, what's being done by the Malaysian authorities!
Let's explore some posts (i.e. lowering myself to such levels):
"written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 | 15:57:29
I believed if the Christian want to distribute..."
"written by temenggong, December 29, 2007 | 13:06:33
This is a turf war; the turf is the realm of language. But language is in the public domain which the authorities are trying to control.
The honest truth is that christians in west malaysia would be aghast at calling god as allah. This is an acquired taste."
The term 'Allah' has been used in Christian literature (yes, in bahasa) in Malaysia for a very, very long time. Why the noises now? Christians in West Malaysia sing songs and hymns during mass using the word 'Allah' - why aghast?
At the end of the day, no religion promotes anarchy or violence or chaos - what we have is... select people wanting to gain political mileage!
This is where we as the PEOPLE have mileage! Vote wisely! Those responsible are now laughing their heads off as they have managed to stir up Malaysians - yet again!!!
In the above example, the source of grievance and dispute is the use of the word 'Allah'. This is NOT a Bahasa word. Now, what if the British were to do a Quallcomm (owner of CDMA patents) and insist on explicit permission on the use of English outside of the UK? Or Latin purists doing the same for derivatives such as Italian, French, etc.? This is, in effect, what's being done by the Malaysian authorities!
Let's explore some posts (i.e. lowering myself to such levels):
"written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 | 15:57:29
I believed if the Christian want to distribute..."
"written by temenggong, December 29, 2007 | 13:06:33
This is a turf war; the turf is the realm of language. But language is in the public domain which the authorities are trying to control.
The honest truth is that christians in west malaysia would be aghast at calling god as allah. This is an acquired taste."
The term 'Allah' has been used in Christian literature (yes, in bahasa) in Malaysia for a very, very long time. Why the noises now? Christians in West Malaysia sing songs and hymns during mass using the word 'Allah' - why aghast?
At the end of the day, no religion promotes anarchy or violence or chaos - what we have is... select people wanting to gain political mileage!
This is where we as the PEOPLE have mileage! Vote wisely! Those responsible are now laughing their heads off as they have managed to stir up Malaysians - yet again!!!
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written by mikewang, December 29, 2007 07:31:17
written by mikewang, December 29, 2007 07:31:17
I want to know what is PAS' and PKR's stand on this issue.
Why are your people so quiet ??????
Why are your people so quiet ??????
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written by Malaysiaputra, December 29, 2007 05:32:30
written by Malaysiaputra, December 29, 2007 05:32:30
"the "Malay" community will be able to reach 90% of the country's population." I would say easily when Umno starts giving citizenship to the Bengladeshis and Indonesian illegal immigrants and absorb them as Malays.
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written by temenggong, December 29, 2007 05:06:33
written by temenggong, December 29, 2007 05:06:33
This is a turf war; the turf is the realm of language. But language is in the public domain which the authorities are trying to control.
The honest truth is that christians in west malaysia would be aghast at calling god as allah. This is an acquired taste.
Usage of local names really is a policy of inculturation which started with Vatican II Council but unfolded in the late 70s. It required the church to use local languages, customs, traditions and garb, so as to appear 'not foreign' but indigeneous, to assimilate, to appear as a seamless blend, so that it would not invite hostility. It was a policy by Ratzinger (now Benedict) and copied by all the protestant churches to appear universal but in fact it served to obfuscate and confuse the locals. Inculturation paves the way for 'Dialogue', which paves the way for evangelisation. dialogue is always oneway! That is always the target of what the established churches do.
I wrote to the pope about this in 1985 and he replied blah, blah..holy nonsense. Instead after that he became an even more uncompromising fundamentalist than even Ratzinger. Called all of us 'rapacious wolves'!
I think they are making a mistake pushing for this, but I say let them do so. For, the best laid plans always goes awry.
Individuals may have honest egalitarian views but the established churches have uncompromising exclusivist claims, none recognise the other as worshipping the same god, or even same concept of god, rather the 'other' is a deviant and destined for hell. Most muslims have the same view too.
Nice huh!
The honest truth is that christians in west malaysia would be aghast at calling god as allah. This is an acquired taste.
Usage of local names really is a policy of inculturation which started with Vatican II Council but unfolded in the late 70s. It required the church to use local languages, customs, traditions and garb, so as to appear 'not foreign' but indigeneous, to assimilate, to appear as a seamless blend, so that it would not invite hostility. It was a policy by Ratzinger (now Benedict) and copied by all the protestant churches to appear universal but in fact it served to obfuscate and confuse the locals. Inculturation paves the way for 'Dialogue', which paves the way for evangelisation. dialogue is always oneway! That is always the target of what the established churches do.
I wrote to the pope about this in 1985 and he replied blah, blah..holy nonsense. Instead after that he became an even more uncompromising fundamentalist than even Ratzinger. Called all of us 'rapacious wolves'!
I think they are making a mistake pushing for this, but I say let them do so. For, the best laid plans always goes awry.
Individuals may have honest egalitarian views but the established churches have uncompromising exclusivist claims, none recognise the other as worshipping the same god, or even same concept of god, rather the 'other' is a deviant and destined for hell. Most muslims have the same view too.
Nice huh!
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written by anallu, December 29, 2007 04:37:49
written by anallu, December 29, 2007 04:37:49
There has been an endless discussion about the use of the word 'Allah' which Bahrom claims only belongs to the 'Malays'. There is a political dimension to whatever the UMNO politicians say and do regarding the religion of Islam. The Malay "Islam" has been put in a straitjacket by the UMNO and its complaiant ulamas and has been made into an 'one way' religion. One can only get in and not get out. The political purpose of this scheme is to make sure that every member of this Islamic religion is kept captive to that religion - and to the wielders of political power over that religion - so that they can easily drive the whole (or at least the majority) of that community to the polling station at each general election to support the power wielders. This arrangement helps the Muslim political leaders of this country to remain in power in perpetuity (if possible).
The "Malays" in this country who are by definition all muslims can only be said to be a 'community'. As the definition of a Malay as provided in the Constitution enables any Muslim from any part of the world to become a "Malay" merely by coforming to the conditions stated in the Constitution, the present Malay community in this country is not a homogeneous race,but includes most of the diaspora of the Indonesian archipelago, the Arabs, the Indian muslims and in many cases even Chinese Muslims and many others. This enablement to 'generate' Malays is another political dimension helping the present power holders in this country.
There appears to be no ethnic "Malay Race" which our present Malay political masters are always fond of protecting. The Malay population in this country is increasing at a phenominal rate ever since the country attained its independence and especially so, after the government implemented its "Affirmative Preferences" policy in favour of the Malays. It should not be a surprise to anyone that in a very short time, the "Malay" community will be able to reach 90% of the country's population.
The "Malays" in this country who are by definition all muslims can only be said to be a 'community'. As the definition of a Malay as provided in the Constitution enables any Muslim from any part of the world to become a "Malay" merely by coforming to the conditions stated in the Constitution, the present Malay community in this country is not a homogeneous race,but includes most of the diaspora of the Indonesian archipelago, the Arabs, the Indian muslims and in many cases even Chinese Muslims and many others. This enablement to 'generate' Malays is another political dimension helping the present power holders in this country.
There appears to be no ethnic "Malay Race" which our present Malay political masters are always fond of protecting. The Malay population in this country is increasing at a phenominal rate ever since the country attained its independence and especially so, after the government implemented its "Affirmative Preferences" policy in favour of the Malays. It should not be a surprise to anyone that in a very short time, the "Malay" community will be able to reach 90% of the country's population.
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written by AlwaysMalaysian, December 29, 2007 03:49:24
written by AlwaysMalaysian, December 29, 2007 03:49:24
It is interesting that this issue is being stirred up again. It started in 2003, before last GE. AAB kinda ended it and gain some votes. Now, again before the next GE. Looks like it has become one of the usual trick to earn votes?
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written by Ken Liew, December 29, 2007 03:26:33
written by Ken Liew, December 29, 2007 03:26:33
So...... The sleeping beauty said others as narrow-minded...... Fight for human rights is a narrow-minded act. Its seems If a not human mind are not narrow. Should we ask the sleeping beauty IS HE HUMAN???
He who build the bridge NARROW, are suppose to move stright??? I'm at the edge of confusion, AGAIN!!
As Sleeping beauty once said something like this: I cant lie about not knowing the date of pilihan raya. But i dont know how to announce.
Because of too confused I dont even know how to say it myself. As to me, Sleeping beauty DID IT AGAIN. Confusing words and yet didnt confuse himself.
He who build the bridge NARROW, are suppose to move stright??? I'm at the edge of confusion, AGAIN!!
As Sleeping beauty once said something like this: I cant lie about not knowing the date of pilihan raya. But i dont know how to announce.
Because of too confused I dont even know how to say it myself. As to me, Sleeping beauty DID IT AGAIN. Confusing words and yet didnt confuse himself.
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written by Sakaratul Maut, December 29, 2007 02:48:24
written by Sakaratul Maut, December 29, 2007 02:48:24
Before this I am not aware the church books/magazines use the word “Allahâ€Â. After reading all these argument, I recall a story I heard during one of the Islamic Ceramah (sermon) by Ustaz (who was ex-Priest/Paderi)
He was one of the top Priest in Malaysia at one time. Before dia nak ditabalkan Priest/Paderi tertinggi di Malaysia, dia telah menjalani kursus di Rome, Italy. At the end of his course, he was taught to say prayer/doa kepada orang Kristian yang diambang sakaratul maut (dying). The last prayer/doa yang diajarkan kepada dying kirstian tidak lain selain…. “There no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messangerâ€Â…. Iaitulah kalimah syahadah yang umat Islam lafaskan. After returning home from Italy, he referred to Pej Agama Islam and convert to Islam, kerana dia merasakan bahwa Kristian buakanlah agama yang sebenarnya di sisi Allah.
I think that is the reason the Church/Christians want to use the word “Allahâ€Â. After all Nabi Isa A.S (Jesus) diutuskan Allah kepada kaum Nasarah untuk mengajar agama Islam dan beriman kepada Allah, sepertimana firman Allah;
“Sesungguhnya agama (yang benar dan diredai) di sisi Allah ialah Islam. Dan orang-orang (Yahudi dan Nasrani) yang diberikan kitab itu tidak berselisih (mengenai ugama Islam dan enggan menerimanya) melainkan setelah sampai kepada mereka pengetahuan yang sah tentang kebenarannya; (perselisihan itu pula) semata-mata kerana hasad dengki yang ada dalam kalangan mereka. Dan (ingatlah), sesiapa yang kufur ingkar akan ayat-ayat keterangan Allah, maka sesungguhnya Allah amat segera hitungan hisabNya.â€Â
The Religion before Allah Is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book Dissent therefrom except Through envy of each other, After knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
(Surah Ali-Imran : 19)
Wallahualam.
He was one of the top Priest in Malaysia at one time. Before dia nak ditabalkan Priest/Paderi tertinggi di Malaysia, dia telah menjalani kursus di Rome, Italy. At the end of his course, he was taught to say prayer/doa kepada orang Kristian yang diambang sakaratul maut (dying). The last prayer/doa yang diajarkan kepada dying kirstian tidak lain selain…. “There no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messangerâ€Â…. Iaitulah kalimah syahadah yang umat Islam lafaskan. After returning home from Italy, he referred to Pej Agama Islam and convert to Islam, kerana dia merasakan bahwa Kristian buakanlah agama yang sebenarnya di sisi Allah.
I think that is the reason the Church/Christians want to use the word “Allahâ€Â. After all Nabi Isa A.S (Jesus) diutuskan Allah kepada kaum Nasarah untuk mengajar agama Islam dan beriman kepada Allah, sepertimana firman Allah;
“Sesungguhnya agama (yang benar dan diredai) di sisi Allah ialah Islam. Dan orang-orang (Yahudi dan Nasrani) yang diberikan kitab itu tidak berselisih (mengenai ugama Islam dan enggan menerimanya) melainkan setelah sampai kepada mereka pengetahuan yang sah tentang kebenarannya; (perselisihan itu pula) semata-mata kerana hasad dengki yang ada dalam kalangan mereka. Dan (ingatlah), sesiapa yang kufur ingkar akan ayat-ayat keterangan Allah, maka sesungguhnya Allah amat segera hitungan hisabNya.â€Â
The Religion before Allah Is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book Dissent therefrom except Through envy of each other, After knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
(Surah Ali-Imran : 19)
Wallahualam.
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written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 02:40:40
written by shamadz72, December 29, 2007 02:40:40
wongnoball, December 29, 2007 | 00:18:53
Dear Shamadz72,
I can understand your feeling. You want the word,Allah, to be exclusively for Islam only, am I right?
------
Nope. Just want to make sure that the Christian use the right translation in their bible
Like I have said earlier. I don't have any qualm if they want to distribute the Arabic Bible with Allah word in it referring to their god since that is the right word been used over there. But in Bahasa Malaysia it is pretty clear that the right word for god is "Tuhan". Just ask any joe average of any religion background on the street here in Malaysia who is "Allah" and I can bet my last cent that he surely going to point it towards Islam. So let us keep it that way. Just because it been used in Indonesia language doesn't means that it is the same here in Malaysia. Malaysian language and Indonesian language have similarity but certain word with similar spelling might have different meaning and used of context in its language. Don't believe me? Utter the word "Butoh" right in front of a face of a Malaysian Malay and Indonesian Malays and you will see my point.
Remember we are living in a multi-religious society and it is very easy for us to go towards Yugoslavia way if we are not careful enough.
Dear Shamadz72,
I can understand your feeling. You want the word,Allah, to be exclusively for Islam only, am I right?
------
Nope. Just want to make sure that the Christian use the right translation in their bible
Like I have said earlier. I don't have any qualm if they want to distribute the Arabic Bible with Allah word in it referring to their god since that is the right word been used over there. But in Bahasa Malaysia it is pretty clear that the right word for god is "Tuhan". Just ask any joe average of any religion background on the street here in Malaysia who is "Allah" and I can bet my last cent that he surely going to point it towards Islam. So let us keep it that way. Just because it been used in Indonesia language doesn't means that it is the same here in Malaysia. Malaysian language and Indonesian language have similarity but certain word with similar spelling might have different meaning and used of context in its language. Don't believe me? Utter the word "Butoh" right in front of a face of a Malaysian Malay and Indonesian Malays and you will see my point.
Remember we are living in a multi-religious society and it is very easy for us to go towards Yugoslavia way if we are not careful enough.
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written by Dogboy, December 29, 2007 02:10:38
written by Dogboy, December 29, 2007 02:10:38
These Muslim authorities want a monopoly on everything associated with their religion. Cannot build places of religious worship near the mosque, cannot use words like Allah, cannot fart like a Muslim etc. etc. all bull shit from a bunch of hippocritical lot. These religious leaders are the worse people of society, a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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written by cble, December 29, 2007 00:46:52
written by cble, December 29, 2007 00:46:52
Yes, it was a Christian who in a way 'anointed' Muhammad as the Prophet of Islam when Muhammad himself thought he was going mad and told his wife so. But Khatijah's cousin, the learned Christian, convinced Khatijah that Muhammad was not going mad but had been chosen by God as the next Prophet
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Malangnya pihak kristenlah yang tidak mengakui bahawa Mohammad itu ialah seorang Nabi, seperti Nabi Isa, Musa dll
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Malangnya pihak kristenlah yang tidak mengakui bahawa Mohammad itu ialah seorang Nabi, seperti Nabi Isa, Musa dll
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written by Damnblurrr, December 28, 2007 18:07:21
written by Damnblurrr, December 28, 2007 18:07:21
All this confusion....God, Tuhan, Allah etc... hv we ever wonder why during Christmas, churches light candles; Raya, Muslim light up candles; Chinese New Year, Chinese light up candles, Deepavali, Indian light up candles? Not only in Malaysia but worldwide. Hmmm.....will there be some messages fm the TOP that is being relayed to us by candles?
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written by RumahPanjai, December 28, 2007 18:06:22
written by RumahPanjai, December 28, 2007 18:06:22
This "Hadhari" crap is therefore a wolve in sheep's clothing? The proponent of this ideas used it to their own political advantage. It wouldn't be long before they ban holidays like deepavali, christmas etc. as these will be considered as "Haram" too. What are we going to do about it?
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written by BennyG, December 28, 2007 18:04:00
written by BennyG, December 28, 2007 18:04:00
Hmm...race & religion really stirs up a lot of people. But is it really about race or religion? Are people more sensitive or the generator of controversies had other intentions? 2003 ban iban bible. 2003 lifted ban. 2004 General Elections. 2007 ban "allah". 2008 General Elections. Coincidence??? Guess what would be the outcome of Hindraf? Good ending (just before the GE, I bet).
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written by us marshall, December 28, 2007 17:34:07
written by us marshall, December 28, 2007 17:34:07
Indonesia the largest populated muslim country in wolrd doesnt have this stupid law but malaysia has it! why? cos malaysian leaders are just simply soooooo stupid! the heck with religious tolerance, the heck with a multi racial society, the heck with fredom of religion and the heck with every thing this bunch of morons in the government says cos its all such a damn bloody lie! I guess even the PAS government will have the brains to be more tolerant n sensitive with other religions rather than this morons in BN.n the biggest moron is the bloody PM, says one bloody thing and does another. no bloody balls to kepp to his bloody word. well what the heck, he is always sleeping! well this is the beloved malaysia we live in - cemerlang,gemilang dan terkongkang. malaysia boleh,malaysia boleh,malaysia boleh blah!!!!
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written by evilbunny, December 28, 2007 17:14:36
written by evilbunny, December 28, 2007 17:14:36
the problem is my malay brothers are confused because malaysian politics has always been played by race and religion. malays originated from indonesia however their names follows the arabs of course this can be justified that malays in malaysia are muslims however putting on a certain name wont send you to heaven. sometimes and even in our secondary textbooks the islamic civilization belongs to us but actually malaysia have no civilization at all and it all belongs to the arabs. there must be a need to preserve culture and religion as i believe both can go hand in hand and not mixed up together. the used of the word "Allah" is nothing more than a word. if the religious people are afraid that believers might get confused then the religion is flawed. let not small issues like this trouble us and instead focus more on fighting bigger sins like corruption.
Assalamu 'Alaikum
God Bless You,
May Peace Be Upon You,
愿主ä¿Â佑?
?¤Â½Â ,
诸æ¶莫作ãâ
‚¬Â诸善奉
行
السلاÙâ
€¦ عليكم
Shalom aleichem
שלונעליכ×Â
Nandri Vanakum
Assalamu 'Alaikum
God Bless You,
May Peace Be Upon You,
愿主ä¿Â佑?
?¤Â½Â ,
诸æ¶莫作ãâ
‚¬Â诸善奉
行
السلاÙâ
€¦ عليكم
Shalom aleichem
שלונעליכ×Â
Nandri Vanakum
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written by labisman, December 28, 2007 17:04:26
written by labisman, December 28, 2007 17:04:26
written by Harbinger, December 28, 2007 | 21:16:20
It's always PEOPLE who bring shame to their religion through their interpretation/misinterpretation or their action/inaction,and NOT the religion itself.It's good that MT posted this article.It shows unbiasness and I like and respect that !!
It's always PEOPLE who bring shame to their religion through their interpretation/misinterpretation or their action/inaction,and NOT the religion itself.It's good that MT posted this article.It shows unbiasness and I like and respect that !!
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written by citizenmy, December 28, 2007 16:49:28
written by citizenmy, December 28, 2007 16:49:28
It is confusing..the fact that all the us started from Adam can be accepted, but we are arguing over the right to use certain name for the CREATOR who created Adam in the first place.
It is my opinion that everyone has his own right what name he wants to use to refer the CREATOR.
CREATOR indirectly created the languages through the "created". The relationship between the CREATOR and the "created" is the matter of concern, not the terms of reference used by the "created" to refer or communicate with the CREATOR.
It is my opinion that everyone has his own right what name he wants to use to refer the CREATOR.
CREATOR indirectly created the languages through the "created". The relationship between the CREATOR and the "created" is the matter of concern, not the terms of reference used by the "created" to refer or communicate with the CREATOR.
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written by The dragonheart, December 28, 2007 16:34:21
written by The dragonheart, December 28, 2007 16:34:21
Islam is the official religion of the "Federation"... is Sabah and Sarawak part of the federation?
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written by wongnoball, December 28, 2007 16:18:53
written by wongnoball, December 28, 2007 16:18:53
Dear Shamadz72,
I can understand your feeling. You want the word,Allah, to be exclusively for Islam only, am I right?
There is a latest article written by Fariah A Noor in www.othermalaysia.org......
If you are not convinced ...... you can key in 'the meaning of Allah' in www.g****e.com
I can understand your feeling. You want the word,Allah, to be exclusively for Islam only, am I right?
There is a latest article written by Fariah A Noor in www.othermalaysia.org......
If you are not convinced ...... you can key in 'the meaning of Allah' in www.g****e.com
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written by temanmu, December 28, 2007 16:11:45
written by temanmu, December 28, 2007 16:11:45
RPK ... you are right.
Pusat Islam, an UMNO crony organisation, is staffed by people more interested in their gaji buta than serious religious study.
MONEY is their GOD!
(BTW, does it mean that if they have a religious book MONEY will be called Allah too?)
Pusat Islam, an UMNO crony organisation, is staffed by people more interested in their gaji buta than serious religious study.
MONEY is their GOD!
(BTW, does it mean that if they have a religious book MONEY will be called Allah too?)
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written by Panca Indera, December 28, 2007 15:52:40
Salam
Dear RPK,
you said, quote,"Their silence and inaction in opposing,correcting transgressions and violations to Islam make these people guilty of complicity. Those who remain quiet are as guilty as those who commit these crimes against Islam."
I think in legal term, these people are guilty of complicity by the fact that they are " Accessory to the crime before/after the fact i.e.in/after the commission of the crime".
This crime by association is not of the same degree as the people who commit the crime itself but heavy enough to warrant severe reprimand,warning and finally punishment.
Therefore for a start, we must encourage all decent living Muslims to avoid contact and any form of group association with these people(provided we have done our part in informing and advising them of their errors.)
Then we must encourage these decent people to united and make constructive actions on ALL FRONTS to highlight,inform, object and reject these wrong acts.
Just imagine if every Friday all the Government mosques are boycotted to emptyness. After all, all you hear week in week out is the same sermon exhortation of how Good our Government is and how they could do no wrong
Note: on the Issue of only Malays and Bahasa in their vocab, then all Malays with Bin and Bintiin their ICs must chance them to anak lelaki and anak perempuan as only than it will be legally conforming to the national language. After all Bin and Binti are foreign words borrowed from the Arabs who are 20% Christians.
Maasalam(with peace)
written by Panca Indera, December 28, 2007 15:52:40
Salam
Dear RPK,
you said, quote,"Their silence and inaction in opposing,correcting transgressions and violations to Islam make these people guilty of complicity. Those who remain quiet are as guilty as those who commit these crimes against Islam."
I think in legal term, these people are guilty of complicity by the fact that they are " Accessory to the crime before/after the fact i.e.in/after the commission of the crime".
This crime by association is not of the same degree as the people who commit the crime itself but heavy enough to warrant severe reprimand,warning and finally punishment.
Therefore for a start, we must encourage all decent living Muslims to avoid contact and any form of group association with these people(provided we have done our part in informing and advising them of their errors.)
Then we must encourage these decent people to united and make constructive actions on ALL FRONTS to highlight,inform, object and reject these wrong acts.
Just imagine if every Friday all the Government mosques are boycotted to emptyness. After all, all you hear week in week out is the same sermon exhortation of how Good our Government is and how they could do no wrong
Note: on the Issue of only Malays and Bahasa in their vocab, then all Malays with Bin and Bintiin their ICs must chance them to anak lelaki and anak perempuan as only than it will be legally conforming to the national language. After all Bin and Binti are foreign words borrowed from the Arabs who are 20% Christians.
Maasalam(with peace)
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written by generalhonest, December 28, 2007 15:10:24
written by generalhonest, December 28, 2007 15:10:24
The word "Allah" has been used to refer to God in the Malay Bible for many years, and long before someone in the BN government decided that he has a problem with it. To many Christian Bumiputras especially those in East Malaysia, who only understand and speak only Malay, they have always known God as Allah. They call out to Allah when they pray and in their most private moments they seek God. Therefore, it is a word NOT to be used loosely or to be changed at anyone's whims. It's like suddenly being told after 40years that you can't call you father "Daddy" anymore and to change to "Ayah". Something is lost in the change and please bear in mind that adjusting to a name change to your worldly father is not even in the same league as adjusting to a name change of God Almighty.
However, I am not so convinced that Johari is indeed that ignorant. RPK was wondering why so many Muslim scholars did not raise an objection. You would also think Johari and AAB would know about the origin of the word Allah right? Well, I think this is the beginning of the BN Goverment's (read UMNO) propaganda to attack Christianity in East Malaysia, where Bumiputras still have the right to chose their religion. I believe what they are trying to do is to the deprive Malay-speaking Bumiputras in East Malaysia from knowing the Christian God.
You see, Malay Bibles and most other Christian text publications have always been published outside Malaysia and God has always been referred to as Allah in these texts. So, by banning the use of the word Allah when referring to the Christian God, they have effectively banned all Christian Malay texts from reaching the Malay-speaking Bumitputras. It's a a very clever but evil scheme to redirect the attention to a small harmless publication when the real intent is a large scale ban of all Malay bibles and texts. This is the re-attempt by the BN (UMNO extremists) to ban the Malay bibles since ytheir last failed attempt in 2003.
What they are doing is they start by telling the Herald to change the term Allah to Tuhan, justifying their directive by saying that that it will confuse the Muslims. Let's just say Herald did comply and changed the word Allah to Tuhan, then what's next? How far will the Herald reach the people with a circulation of only about 12,000? The real attack is on the Malay Bibles and the Christian Texts. Without the Bibles and the Malay texts, that is the beginning of the end for Christianity to the Malay-only speaking population.
I hope the Christians/Catholics in Malaysia see this evil scheme and rise to defend the rights of the Malay-only speaking people of Malaysia to be able to know and choose for themselves the GOD they will ultimately believe in.
However, I am not so convinced that Johari is indeed that ignorant. RPK was wondering why so many Muslim scholars did not raise an objection. You would also think Johari and AAB would know about the origin of the word Allah right? Well, I think this is the beginning of the BN Goverment's (read UMNO) propaganda to attack Christianity in East Malaysia, where Bumiputras still have the right to chose their religion. I believe what they are trying to do is to the deprive Malay-speaking Bumiputras in East Malaysia from knowing the Christian God.
You see, Malay Bibles and most other Christian text publications have always been published outside Malaysia and God has always been referred to as Allah in these texts. So, by banning the use of the word Allah when referring to the Christian God, they have effectively banned all Christian Malay texts from reaching the Malay-speaking Bumitputras. It's a a very clever but evil scheme to redirect the attention to a small harmless publication when the real intent is a large scale ban of all Malay bibles and texts. This is the re-attempt by the BN (UMNO extremists) to ban the Malay bibles since ytheir last failed attempt in 2003.
What they are doing is they start by telling the Herald to change the term Allah to Tuhan, justifying their directive by saying that that it will confuse the Muslims. Let's just say Herald did comply and changed the word Allah to Tuhan, then what's next? How far will the Herald reach the people with a circulation of only about 12,000? The real attack is on the Malay Bibles and the Christian Texts. Without the Bibles and the Malay texts, that is the beginning of the end for Christianity to the Malay-only speaking population.
I hope the Christians/Catholics in Malaysia see this evil scheme and rise to defend the rights of the Malay-only speaking people of Malaysia to be able to know and choose for themselves the GOD they will ultimately believe in.
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written by Y1, December 28, 2007 15:08:47
written by Y1, December 28, 2007 15:08:47
I have posted this in another thread but I think it is relevant here too.
The monotheistic understanding and name of a most high God in the middle east is Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah. Tuhan in the Malay's understanding of deity/deities might not approximate to the attributes of this most high God. That is why I think the name Allah was chosen by Bible translators into the Indonesian and early Malayan Malay Bibles.
In China, the name of God is Shangti (The most high God) used for the most high God is close to the Hebraic Most high God.
As to whether as a Christain I can accept the change in Rukun Negara to 'Belief in Allah', I have no problem because this is the name of my Father God in heaven. As to whether followers of other religions will accept I do not know.
The monotheistic understanding and name of a most high God in the middle east is Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah. Tuhan in the Malay's understanding of deity/deities might not approximate to the attributes of this most high God. That is why I think the name Allah was chosen by Bible translators into the Indonesian and early Malayan Malay Bibles.
In China, the name of God is Shangti (The most high God) used for the most high God is close to the Hebraic Most high God.
As to whether as a Christain I can accept the change in Rukun Negara to 'Belief in Allah', I have no problem because this is the name of my Father God in heaven. As to whether followers of other religions will accept I do not know.
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written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 13:57:37
written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 13:57:37
wongnoball, December 28, 2007 | 21:42:43
Good idea !!! ..... but unfortunately I can't talk on behalf of Lim Kit Siang.
At my place, there are many different Chinese gods, such as God of Tanah, God of Heaven, God of Mercy, God of Fortune ....... even inside their kitchens, there is also one special god, called God of Stove.
I hope you don't mind, can I call these gods Allah of Tanah, Allah of Heaven, Allah of Mercy, Allah of Fortune and Allah of Stove respectively???
Thank you. Assalamulaikum.
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Wong. My opinion on this is YES. 'IF' Allah is the word referring to God in Malay language and not the word "Tuhan", than technically you can call "Allah kepada tanah", "Allah kepada dapur" etc when you want to refer to your "god of land" etc. Unfortunately of fortunately (which ever way you want to look at it) in Malay language, the right word for God is 'Tuhan'.
I have been asking earlier, what is the word been used to refer to the word God for Chinese bible translation or Indian bible translation? Do they refer to God as "Allah" in all these translation?
Good idea !!! ..... but unfortunately I can't talk on behalf of Lim Kit Siang.
At my place, there are many different Chinese gods, such as God of Tanah, God of Heaven, God of Mercy, God of Fortune ....... even inside their kitchens, there is also one special god, called God of Stove.
I hope you don't mind, can I call these gods Allah of Tanah, Allah of Heaven, Allah of Mercy, Allah of Fortune and Allah of Stove respectively???
Thank you. Assalamulaikum.
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Wong. My opinion on this is YES. 'IF' Allah is the word referring to God in Malay language and not the word "Tuhan", than technically you can call "Allah kepada tanah", "Allah kepada dapur" etc when you want to refer to your "god of land" etc. Unfortunately of fortunately (which ever way you want to look at it) in Malay language, the right word for God is 'Tuhan'.
I have been asking earlier, what is the word been used to refer to the word God for Chinese bible translation or Indian bible translation? Do they refer to God as "Allah" in all these translation?
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written by RasuahMinister, December 28, 2007 13:50:53
written by RasuahMinister, December 28, 2007 13:50:53
Humans = Greed (money power)
Humans fight each other for money.
God was a 'weapon' created by humans to fight.
Humans fight each other for money.
God was a 'weapon' created by humans to fight.
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written by wongnoball, December 28, 2007 13:42:43
written by wongnoball, December 28, 2007 13:42:43
Dear Shamadz72,
Good idea !!! ..... but unfortunately I can't talk on behalf of Lim Kit Siang.
At my place, there are many different Chinese gods, such as God of Tanah, God of Heaven, God of Mercy, God of Fortune ....... even inside their kitchens, there is also one special god, called God of Stove.
I hope you don't mind, can I call these gods Allah of Tanah, Allah of Heaven, Allah of Mercy, Allah of Fortune and Allah of Stove respectively???
Thank you. Assalamulaikum.
Good idea !!! ..... but unfortunately I can't talk on behalf of Lim Kit Siang.
At my place, there are many different Chinese gods, such as God of Tanah, God of Heaven, God of Mercy, God of Fortune ....... even inside their kitchens, there is also one special god, called God of Stove.
I hope you don't mind, can I call these gods Allah of Tanah, Allah of Heaven, Allah of Mercy, Allah of Fortune and Allah of Stove respectively???
Thank you. Assalamulaikum.
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written by Hope4all, December 28, 2007 12:47:34
written by Hope4all, December 28, 2007 12:47:34
shamadz72,
Kepercayaan kepada Tuhan. Kepercayaan kepada Allah. Kepercayaan kepada Yahweh. Kepercayaan kepada Almighty.
Semuanya ok!
But, in this life, they must be a way to bond the Christians and Muslims since the lineage of Ismail and Isaac... I for one do not believe that we worship different Gods..
But first, we must NOT succumb to the motives of third parties (for their political mileage and economic gain) but stand steadfast in the true pursuit of justice and fairness to the best of our abilities. These people could care less about religion and God.
I still say there is hope for this country. I still say that we join hands and bring this country of ours to greater heights.
Believe in the human spirit. We may not agree all the time but let's not let others destroy the trusts we as a nation have among different races and religions.
Kepercayaan kepada Tuhan. Kepercayaan kepada Allah. Kepercayaan kepada Yahweh. Kepercayaan kepada Almighty.
Semuanya ok!
But, in this life, they must be a way to bond the Christians and Muslims since the lineage of Ismail and Isaac... I for one do not believe that we worship different Gods..
But first, we must NOT succumb to the motives of third parties (for their political mileage and economic gain) but stand steadfast in the true pursuit of justice and fairness to the best of our abilities. These people could care less about religion and God.
I still say there is hope for this country. I still say that we join hands and bring this country of ours to greater heights.
Believe in the human spirit. We may not agree all the time but let's not let others destroy the trusts we as a nation have among different races and religions.
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written by Debbie, December 28, 2007 11:24:37
written by Debbie, December 28, 2007 11:24:37
Each to his own...whatever. Just vote the shit heads out..it has happened in Australia........what is Malaysia...just an extension of Singapore.....coz around the globe...everyone knows that little red dot but not malaysia.. Looking at the state of our country........religion , race or whatever...its called political bullshit.( b4 i get bombarded..ya.. i know it is singpapore which is the extension...butthen what i said is reality)
Have a another year guys...coz it will be the same shit..just a different year in numerals.
Have a another year guys...coz it will be the same shit..just a different year in numerals.
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written by Mr Smith, December 28, 2007 11:15:21
written by Mr Smith, December 28, 2007 11:15:21
The true God must be the God of all creations, of all Man, earth and heaven.
If we claim God for ourselves and insist that he only saves us and will condemn the rest of mankind to hell, then he cannot be God. He must be just like any President of a country.
We insult God and diminish his greatness by saying he only belong to one group of people.
If we claim God for ourselves and insist that he only saves us and will condemn the rest of mankind to hell, then he cannot be God. He must be just like any President of a country.
We insult God and diminish his greatness by saying he only belong to one group of people.
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written by mikewang, December 28, 2007 10:41:48
written by mikewang, December 28, 2007 10:41:48
written by Tenno, December 28, 2007 | 16:38:33
"Kepercayaan kepada tuhan" to "Kepercayaan kepada Allah". If Lim Kit Siang is not jumping with that changes, I don't mind the Christian want to use "Allah" in their Malay bible. Since it is acceptable that Allah is a Malay word for god and not "tuhan" as a malay word for god.
I like this one.
-----------------------------------------
You are assuming that in Malaysia there are only Christians and Muslims.
This is obviously untrue.
"Kepercayaan kepada tuhan" to "Kepercayaan kepada Allah". If Lim Kit Siang is not jumping with that changes, I don't mind the Christian want to use "Allah" in their Malay bible. Since it is acceptable that Allah is a Malay word for god and not "tuhan" as a malay word for god.
I like this one.
-----------------------------------------
You are assuming that in Malaysia there are only Christians and Muslims.
This is obviously untrue.
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written by sampalee, December 28, 2007 09:54:30
written by sampalee, December 28, 2007 09:54:30
ALL is Tuhan.The one that appear AS the many.Jesus,Prophet mohammad,Loa Tse,Shakyumuni and all mundane and extraordinary phenomena are the manefestation of the one god.It is the one singular light that throw the myriad images on the cosmic screen.[All seemingly have an individual life of its own.The living and non living are from this one light-Al Nur]
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written by DontPlayGod, December 28, 2007 09:51:06
written by DontPlayGod, December 28, 2007 09:51:06
So, what the Muslims are saying is that their God(Allah) is not the same God as the Christian God, and other God of people who don't have a name for their religion, like mine(my religion has no name, lah). Theirs is the only true God, all others are false!
As for me, we are governed by the same God, no matter who or where you are. You can call God, in sincerity, by any name, and he will listen to you. You can call Him George, Ahmad, or Chong, and he will still answer you. It's your attitude and thoughts that matter. Isn't there a saying in English, that a rose by any name smells just as sweet.
Even men(and women) are sometimes known and called by several names, by different people. Does that make the person a differenct being with a different attitude. Does it make the being a different being. Ask RPK!
As for me, we are governed by the same God, no matter who or where you are. You can call God, in sincerity, by any name, and he will listen to you. You can call Him George, Ahmad, or Chong, and he will still answer you. It's your attitude and thoughts that matter. Isn't there a saying in English, that a rose by any name smells just as sweet.
Even men(and women) are sometimes known and called by several names, by different people. Does that make the person a differenct being with a different attitude. Does it make the being a different being. Ask RPK!
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written by glock17, December 28, 2007 09:45:02
written by glock17, December 28, 2007 09:45:02
Dear Pete, its no fault of yours because the problems lies in our dumb and ignorant voters for bringing into power this bunch of monkees for running the whole goverment into total such embarassement...Hell, tis species (monkees without tail) are even known to brandish traditional war dagggers when threathened (some says they are even capable of burning down buildings too).
I totally disagree with AMMNOPUTRAS Junior Chief Gestapo prohibiting the term ALLAH solely to Muslim. Anyway, what does this half-past(a)sleep PJ (pendidkan jasmani) ex-cikgu knows about Christianity which are from the from same branch of Abrahamic pbuh kinship during the early days of bible and torah.
The Christian Arabs uses the term Allah when refering to the Al Mighty..why can't a Christian Dayak or Christian Iban or Christian Indonesian apply the same in Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia bible??. Heck...PLO Mahmud Abbas even attended Christmas Eve in the Nativity Church where the term Allah is pronounce several times during the congregation...none of the hardcore PLO Muslim warlords or Hamas jihadist brandished AK47 or RPG's protesting about it.
I guess only in Boleh Land (a.k.a YoYoLand)...anything is possible under the notorious Ammnoputras regime to sabotage true racial and religious harmony. This dirty tactics are aimed to maintain Amnoputras as true savior's of MalayMuslim survival and gain major landslide votes based on lies after lies. We all know, this are just a bunch of greedy swines which will hide in any sheep clothing due to their unsatiable sinful lust for the survival of their cronies and themselves.
I sincerely believe tat all true hard working, law-abiding and peace loving Malaysians have had enough of tis Ammno crap,which are based on narrow minded ethno-racist (blind) nationalism. What say you and I that we all vote tis bunch of extreme dirty political goons out of power comes the next GE. It is now or never. If tis bunch of evil hearted politicians gain power in the next election, all of us will have to pay a very steep price.
Glock17
I totally disagree with AMMNOPUTRAS Junior Chief Gestapo prohibiting the term ALLAH solely to Muslim. Anyway, what does this half-past(a)sleep PJ (pendidkan jasmani) ex-cikgu knows about Christianity which are from the from same branch of Abrahamic pbuh kinship during the early days of bible and torah.
The Christian Arabs uses the term Allah when refering to the Al Mighty..why can't a Christian Dayak or Christian Iban or Christian Indonesian apply the same in Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia bible??. Heck...PLO Mahmud Abbas even attended Christmas Eve in the Nativity Church where the term Allah is pronounce several times during the congregation...none of the hardcore PLO Muslim warlords or Hamas jihadist brandished AK47 or RPG's protesting about it.
I guess only in Boleh Land (a.k.a YoYoLand)...anything is possible under the notorious Ammnoputras regime to sabotage true racial and religious harmony. This dirty tactics are aimed to maintain Amnoputras as true savior's of MalayMuslim survival and gain major landslide votes based on lies after lies. We all know, this are just a bunch of greedy swines which will hide in any sheep clothing due to their unsatiable sinful lust for the survival of their cronies and themselves.
I sincerely believe tat all true hard working, law-abiding and peace loving Malaysians have had enough of tis Ammno crap,which are based on narrow minded ethno-racist (blind) nationalism. What say you and I that we all vote tis bunch of extreme dirty political goons out of power comes the next GE. It is now or never. If tis bunch of evil hearted politicians gain power in the next election, all of us will have to pay a very steep price.
Glock17
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written by Yen Moy, December 28, 2007 09:31:20
written by Yen Moy, December 28, 2007 09:31:20
We are blinded with the word "ALLAH" and "GOD" it is nothing more than 2 words. I would not miss my sleeps over it.
As a secular state such issue should be disassociated with country agenda to progress. Each time Malaysia moves 2 steps foward and only to set back 3 steps backwards because of bitching about religion and/or race. When are we going to learn? We got bigger & better things to do.
As a secular state such issue should be disassociated with country agenda to progress. Each time Malaysia moves 2 steps foward and only to set back 3 steps backwards because of bitching about religion and/or race. When are we going to learn? We got bigger & better things to do.
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written by alan cheong, December 28, 2007 09:24:41
written by alan cheong, December 28, 2007 09:24:41
btw, the way Peter presented it ... sounds like muhammad was called and anointed like Moses, but in character more like King Saul ... and he deviated much much more ... ?
but then again, our malay brethren who have had personal encounters with Jesus KNOW the TRUTH.
but then again, our malay brethren who have had personal encounters with Jesus KNOW the TRUTH.
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written by alan cheong, December 28, 2007 09:18:45
written by alan cheong, December 28, 2007 09:18:45
yadda yadda yadda ... WE can talk, debate and argue till blue in the face or till the cows come home whichever is sooner ... We can assert and extol all WE want ... BUT THEN we'll be playing into barisan nasional's hands and game.
See and truly see and understand ... 'tis a card that's been played all too effectively for 5 decades ... still wanna be subjugated or NOT? A card that's played during EVERY election and more so during the last two rounds.
THEY know ... so unless Y'ALL grow up real soon, ie lay aside these first; WE'll never get to have our individual freedom of faith. And growth, and development, and prosperity, and harmony.
See and truly see and understand ... 'tis a card that's been played all too effectively for 5 decades ... still wanna be subjugated or NOT? A card that's played during EVERY election and more so during the last two rounds.
THEY know ... so unless Y'ALL grow up real soon, ie lay aside these first; WE'll never get to have our individual freedom of faith. And growth, and development, and prosperity, and harmony.
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written by Florance, December 28, 2007 09:16:24
written by Florance, December 28, 2007 09:16:24
Dear RPK I never knew all this that you have said about our prophet anyway..my opinion is it's no use fighting over religion because when we die we all become the same. Ash to ash, dust to dust. What difference does it make. It's true we all are brothers and sisters in the only God ( Allah ) be it what ever our religion is.
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written by skc, December 28, 2007 09:14:40
written by skc, December 28, 2007 09:14:40
Do any of you here think that the people who say that cannot use the word Allah really cares about the religion ? I do not think so, because if they do then they would not be doing all these bad things. So what else is there ? We are not dealing with a bunch of clever people here, it is very clear what they are trying to achieve, we should not fall for it, ok ?
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written by skc, December 28, 2007 09:11:20
written by skc, December 28, 2007 09:11:20
Wow all very profound and deep man (opps, and / or women), I just think it is the normal Umno way of divide and conquer. Heheheheeee
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written by nafis, December 28, 2007 09:05:08
written by nafis, December 28, 2007 09:05:08
I agree with Shamadz72.
If all these hu-ha about God and Allah boiled down to just what kind of language should the term Tuhan/God be used in certain texts, then "Tuhan" is the correct term to use in the Malay bible. And "Allah" should be used in other ARABIC religious texts - case closed
And yup, let's see if people stay level-headed when asked to recite "Kepercayaan kepada Allah"
If all these hu-ha about God and Allah boiled down to just what kind of language should the term Tuhan/God be used in certain texts, then "Tuhan" is the correct term to use in the Malay bible. And "Allah" should be used in other ARABIC religious texts - case closed
And yup, let's see if people stay level-headed when asked to recite "Kepercayaan kepada Allah"
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written by tcng, December 28, 2007 09:03:48
written by tcng, December 28, 2007 09:03:48
Correction : If you (Muslim) want to avoid pork, isn't ensuring no pork in your food good enough??
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written by tcng, December 28, 2007 08:52:40
written by tcng, December 28, 2007 08:52:40
teo siew chin is an optimist. I say... you can wait, but it is not going to happen in our life time.
In the past, the thinkers in the west challenge the Church authority on abortion, condom usage, birth control, even oral sex and masturbation..
I do not see any muslim thinkers who has the courage to stand up to say that :-
1) moderate drinking of alcohol does not do any harm. Smoking probably cause more harm.
2) revealing some amount of skin, holding hand and even show of affection in public places does not do any harm.
3) it is silly to be too obsess/strict with halal in food.. such as seperate use of spoon and utensil.
If you want to avoid pork, just pork in your food is good enough?
Indera Gandhi once was quoted as saying this : It takes a lot of courage to tell the Hindu masses that beef actually can be eaten.
I am dumbfounded with everything must be halal... such as Islamic banking & Finance, even Musli Car fro Proton
4) allowing men to marry more than one wife is not right... well, isn't the male-female ratio about 1:1?
5) it is stupid to assume that children from Muslim parents will automatically be Muslim..
I thought there is freedom of religion.. upon reaching 18 or 21, isn't the child allow to decide what reglion, if any, to embrace?
6) It is 'hypocratical' to welcome non-Muslim to Islam, while not allowing Muslim (including those who were born in Islam family and did not choose his/her religion) to denounce Islam.
the list can go on and on and on and on.
I am a pessimist... I see no light at the end of tunnel...
In the past, the thinkers in the west challenge the Church authority on abortion, condom usage, birth control, even oral sex and masturbation..
I do not see any muslim thinkers who has the courage to stand up to say that :-
1) moderate drinking of alcohol does not do any harm. Smoking probably cause more harm.
2) revealing some amount of skin, holding hand and even show of affection in public places does not do any harm.
3) it is silly to be too obsess/strict with halal in food.. such as seperate use of spoon and utensil.
If you want to avoid pork, just pork in your food is good enough?
Indera Gandhi once was quoted as saying this : It takes a lot of courage to tell the Hindu masses that beef actually can be eaten.
I am dumbfounded with everything must be halal... such as Islamic banking & Finance, even Musli Car fro Proton
4) allowing men to marry more than one wife is not right... well, isn't the male-female ratio about 1:1?
5) it is stupid to assume that children from Muslim parents will automatically be Muslim..
I thought there is freedom of religion.. upon reaching 18 or 21, isn't the child allow to decide what reglion, if any, to embrace?
6) It is 'hypocratical' to welcome non-Muslim to Islam, while not allowing Muslim (including those who were born in Islam family and did not choose his/her religion) to denounce Islam.
the list can go on and on and on and on.
I am a pessimist... I see no light at the end of tunnel...
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written by tom73my, December 28, 2007 08:39:22
written by tom73my, December 28, 2007 08:39:22
Have a break guys and girls, and see things from another perpective.
1. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."....
2. Ricky Gervais: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEj3g5GOYA&feature=related
1. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."....
2. Ricky Gervais: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEj3g5GOYA&feature=related
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written by Tenno, December 28, 2007 08:38:33
written by Tenno, December 28, 2007 08:38:33
"Kepercayaan kepada tuhan" to "Kepercayaan kepada Allah". If Lim Kit Siang is not jumping with that changes, I don't mind the Christian want to use "Allah" in their Malay bible. Since it is acceptable that Allah is a Malay word for god and not "tuhan" as a malay word for god.
I like this one.
I like this one.
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written by educationist, December 28, 2007 08:33:08
written by educationist, December 28, 2007 08:33:08
Good to hear RPK acknowledge the stupidity of those hypocrites. But again in a matter as basic and important as this , there goes our PM again, keeping noble silence. He doesn't seem to realise when action is needed. Perhaps he needs a cue from that SIL.
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written by densemy, December 28, 2007 08:14:54
written by densemy, December 28, 2007 08:14:54
I wonder how we would assess Muhammad in this more enlightened 2007 if he behaved like that
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written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 08:03:53
"Muslims have a right to regulate their own religious affairs, refer to god as allah or tuhan or whatever. But they have no right to regulate other religions. It would be hegemony."
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Temenggong. I disagree with your comment. Do you think it is ok if say the Indian christian bible want to use the word "Shiva" to refer to their Jessus? Don't you think the Indian & their Hindraf group will be jumping over it?
written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 08:03:53
"Muslims have a right to regulate their own religious affairs, refer to god as allah or tuhan or whatever. But they have no right to regulate other religions. It would be hegemony."
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Temenggong. I disagree with your comment. Do you think it is ok if say the Indian christian bible want to use the word "Shiva" to refer to their Jessus? Don't you think the Indian & their Hindraf group will be jumping over it?
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written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 07:57:29
written by shamadz72, December 28, 2007 07:57:29
I believed if the Christian want to distribute their arabic version of bible with the word "Allah" in arabic in it, there should be any problem since Allah is been used for donkey years to refer to God in the bible Arabic version. But if they want to translate it to Malay, the right word for god in Malay language is "Tuhan" and not "Allah". Unless of cause they have other motivate of using the word Allah in their version of the Malay bible (Only they know about it).
I just wondering what word they used to refer to god in the Indian or Chinese bible translation? Can any good Christian enlighten us?
And one more thing, I just wondering whether you guys including Saudara Lim Kit Siang (who is championing the right for Christian to use the word Allah for their Malay translation bible) don't mind if we change the wording in the rukun negara from "Kepercayaan kepada tuhan" to "Kepercayaan kepada Allah". If Lim Kit Siang is not jumping with that changes, I don't mind the Christian want to use "Allah" in their Malay bible. Since it is acceptable that Allah is a Malay word for god and not "tuhan" as a malay word for god
I just wondering what word they used to refer to god in the Indian or Chinese bible translation? Can any good Christian enlighten us?
And one more thing, I just wondering whether you guys including Saudara Lim Kit Siang (who is championing the right for Christian to use the word Allah for their Malay translation bible) don't mind if we change the wording in the rukun negara from "Kepercayaan kepada tuhan" to "Kepercayaan kepada Allah". If Lim Kit Siang is not jumping with that changes, I don't mind the Christian want to use "Allah" in their Malay bible. Since it is acceptable that Allah is a Malay word for god and not "tuhan" as a malay word for god
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written by Hope4all, December 28, 2007 07:25:23
written by Hope4all, December 28, 2007 07:25:23
So, what will our politicians do next for political mileage and further confuse the people only for their own economic gain?
There are also Melanau Christians (Melanaus have both Muslims and Christians) in Sarawak who use "bin" in their names (MyKad) instead of "son of" or "anak" or "anak lelaki" or "anak perempuan...
So, will we have to take this issue to court as well?!
Can we remove the "tempurungs" in our heads, open up, strive for unity to bring this country forward instead?
There are also Melanau Christians (Melanaus have both Muslims and Christians) in Sarawak who use "bin" in their names (MyKad) instead of "son of" or "anak" or "anak lelaki" or "anak perempuan...
So, will we have to take this issue to court as well?!
Can we remove the "tempurungs" in our heads, open up, strive for unity to bring this country forward instead?
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written by teo siew chin, December 28, 2007 06:59:11
written by teo siew chin, December 28, 2007 06:59:11
Those who know better and are in POWER yet keep silent, these are the ones who fail the nation just as badly. But I am ever hopeful - if RPK can yell and scream at such violations, so will many others. We just have to wait for them to find their voices.
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written by panca, December 28, 2007 06:29:22
written by panca, December 28, 2007 06:29:22
The question is, who taught him that, to meditate that is?
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Any idea there are levels of beings(boddhi), that has always been teaching about kindness, selfless practices of action for compassion and wisdom. This points to human mind that is a wild elephant that need to be trained(meditate) in order to be able to see from an ordinary to a higher conscious, purified state of mind.
It was thus said by the Teacher, with no concern of an entity of him doing it for you, but only within oneself for oneself and for others that need to be done......."DO GOOD, AVOID EVIL and PURIFY THE MIND", (these three simple words of profound actions within self). Who is not aware that he himself is not AWARE?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any idea there are levels of beings(boddhi), that has always been teaching about kindness, selfless practices of action for compassion and wisdom. This points to human mind that is a wild elephant that need to be trained(meditate) in order to be able to see from an ordinary to a higher conscious, purified state of mind.
It was thus said by the Teacher, with no concern of an entity of him doing it for you, but only within oneself for oneself and for others that need to be done......."DO GOOD, AVOID EVIL and PURIFY THE MIND", (these three simple words of profound actions within self). Who is not aware that he himself is not AWARE?
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written by DontPlayGod, December 28, 2007 06:25:05
written by DontPlayGod, December 28, 2007 06:25:05
One wonders how knowledgeable or trained in Islam and the Koran are these so-called religious experts in the Religious Departments, Religious bodies, Pusat Islam, and not leaving out the religious teachers, the mufti's, the mullah's, and ayatollah's, including our own Imam Hadhari. To those who are knowledgeable or well-read in Koranic scriptures, please don't keep quiet when you hear or read about these so-called experts. Stand up and shout back at them, or else Islam is getting a very bad name indeed. In this respect, syabas to RPK for speaking up.
Stand up and give your opinions loudly on those who kill in the name of God(not of Satan), those who enslave or treat their women as dirty and slaves of man, and especially who take it upon themselves as God's chosen representative or agent and make/issue fatwas. You can make any number of fatwa's you like, but it is up to the practioners/followers to believe you, or accept what you say. Remember whatever fatwa you make comes from you(you may be an idiot), and not from God
As far as I know, those who take up religious studies do so because they failed in other courses, or they find they can't keep up with studies requiring a much higher intellectual input. Our own Imam Hadhari is a case in point. I wonder has anyone failed Islamic studies?
Stand up and give your opinions loudly on those who kill in the name of God(not of Satan), those who enslave or treat their women as dirty and slaves of man, and especially who take it upon themselves as God's chosen representative or agent and make/issue fatwas. You can make any number of fatwa's you like, but it is up to the practioners/followers to believe you, or accept what you say. Remember whatever fatwa you make comes from you(you may be an idiot), and not from God
As far as I know, those who take up religious studies do so because they failed in other courses, or they find they can't keep up with studies requiring a much higher intellectual input. Our own Imam Hadhari is a case in point. I wonder has anyone failed Islamic studies?
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written by Littlebird, December 28, 2007 06:14:20
written by Littlebird, December 28, 2007 06:14:20
Religion..god..and peace... see here http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WO...pstoryview
still believe that religion can bring peace?
still believe that religion can bring peace?
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written by tcng, December 28, 2007 06:09:42
written by tcng, December 28, 2007 06:09:42
Dear RPK,
May be we should allocate an hour or so per week for our High School students to learn about the wisdom of the west. I am no 'Anglophile' , in fact I attended SRJK(C) school in Msia.
One of them I like is Bertrand Russell... just share with you a few quotes from this thinker..
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. (example : Mormon has millions of followers in USA/Utah and even other countries)...
Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.
Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
Religions, which condemn the pleasures of sense, drive men to seek the pleasures of power. Throughout history power has been the vice of the ascetic.
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
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To me, all dogmatic religions are bad for mankind, they do more harm than goods to mankind. The Churches in Europe 500 years ago. The various Islamic organizations/Institutions. Not suprisingly, less organised/hirarchial Religions like Taoism/Buddhism cause less harm than Christianity & Islam.
There were many rationale thinkers in Europe 500 years ago to 'fight' with the Churches/Instituion. But sadly, there isn't many rationale Islamic thinkers in the world today. Malay-Muslim will down the drain if they don't wake up. and the whole Malaysia will go down together.
May be we should allocate an hour or so per week for our High School students to learn about the wisdom of the west. I am no 'Anglophile' , in fact I attended SRJK(C) school in Msia.
One of them I like is Bertrand Russell... just share with you a few quotes from this thinker..
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. (example : Mormon has millions of followers in USA/Utah and even other countries)...
Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.
Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
Religions, which condemn the pleasures of sense, drive men to seek the pleasures of power. Throughout history power has been the vice of the ascetic.
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To me, all dogmatic religions are bad for mankind, they do more harm than goods to mankind. The Churches in Europe 500 years ago. The various Islamic organizations/Institutions. Not suprisingly, less organised/hirarchial Religions like Taoism/Buddhism cause less harm than Christianity & Islam.
There were many rationale thinkers in Europe 500 years ago to 'fight' with the Churches/Instituion. But sadly, there isn't many rationale Islamic thinkers in the world today. Malay-Muslim will down the drain if they don't wake up. and the whole Malaysia will go down together.
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written by Vikram, December 28, 2007 05:58:17
written by Vikram, December 28, 2007 05:58:17
Bahasa Malaysia belongs to UMNO. They have embarked on a plan to take over Arabic as well. Alas!!!
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written by temenggong, December 28, 2007 05:56:08
written by temenggong, December 28, 2007 05:56:08
Muslims have a right to regulate their own religious affairs, refer to god as allah or tuhan or whatever. But they have no right to regulate other religions. It would be hegemony.
I do wish the christian evangelical churches would leave the indigeneous people of east malaysia alone and not convert them. That amounts to wiping out whole tribal religions, cultures and languages, religio-cultural cleansing in the name of god, as they have done in all continents. Look at this ignorant statement:
"The important thing, though, is that the Iban come to know God, through having the Bible in their own language."
Come to know God?? What do you think the ibans were praying to all this while you insolent fool!
I do wish the christian evangelical churches would leave the indigeneous people of east malaysia alone and not convert them. That amounts to wiping out whole tribal religions, cultures and languages, religio-cultural cleansing in the name of god, as they have done in all continents. Look at this ignorant statement:
"The important thing, though, is that the Iban come to know God, through having the Bible in their own language."
Come to know God?? What do you think the ibans were praying to all this while you insolent fool!
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written by Spear Bing, December 28, 2007 05:24:39
written by Spear Bing, December 28, 2007 05:24:39
At last ,this is the revelation. AAB is powerless and helpless. It's his deputy Johari who is in charge of Internal Security. Perhaps Johari knows better than AAB about Islam Hadhari's copyright of the word 'Allah'
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written by temenggong, December 28, 2007 05:14:50
written by temenggong, December 28, 2007 05:14:50
"According to Islamic history, Muhammad was a 'restless soul' who used to withdraw from society to contemplate all alone in a deserted cave for days on end. In this isolation or 'solitary confinement', Muhammad would ponder in search of the Creator."
He used to do this often. This is called meditation or observing silence, 'maunam'. Everytime he came out of the caves from solitary confinement, he gave some reveletions ot his companions. The question is, who taught him that? To meditate that is!
Jesus used to do the same. He used to withdraw into a room for hours or even days in solitary confinement in 'prayer'. Or he used to disappear from the village and be by himself all alone in the wilderness for days at a time. That is meditation. Each time he returned he gave some pieces of 'reveletions' to his disciples. The question is, who taught him that, to meditate that is?
He used to do this often. This is called meditation or observing silence, 'maunam'. Everytime he came out of the caves from solitary confinement, he gave some reveletions ot his companions. The question is, who taught him that? To meditate that is!
Jesus used to do the same. He used to withdraw into a room for hours or even days in solitary confinement in 'prayer'. Or he used to disappear from the village and be by himself all alone in the wilderness for days at a time. That is meditation. Each time he returned he gave some pieces of 'reveletions' to his disciples. The question is, who taught him that, to meditate that is?
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