THE CORRIDORS OF POWER
Raja Petra Kamarudin
The Deputy Minister of Internal Security, Johari Baharum, made the decision to investigate the organised crime syndicate. Johari also made the decision to detain half a dozen or so leaders of this organised crime syndicate, which included the number two man, 'Tengku' Goh. Johari signed the order to send them to Simpang Renggam for detention or, in the case of 'Tengku' Goh, for Restricted Residence in Kelantan.
You may have heard of the unholy trinity of Putrajaya -- the father, the son, and the holy ghost. No, Jesus Christ does not live in Putrajaya, so abandon your plan of rushing there this Tuesday. The father we are talking about is Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, his son, Kamal, and his son-in-law, Khairy; whom some would rather place closer to the devil than a holy ghost. Even with the arrival of Gabriel, Khairy's son, the unholy trinity cannot receive the blessing of being transformed into a holy trinity.
While all eyes are focused on this 'First Family' unholy trinity, there is, however, another unholy trinity that has thus far remained unnoticed and has been quietly going about doing their evil deeds without any spotlight and fanfare on what they are doing. This is the unholy alliance of the Attorney-General (A-G), the Inspector-General of Police (IGP) and the head of the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA).
Let us take a step back for the benefit of those who have not been following developments in Malaysia Today to recap what has transpired thus far.
The Director of the Commercial Crime Division (CCD) is currently in Mekah performing his Haj. Even as he circumbulates the Ka'bah, the ACA is preparing a new round of charges in which to slap him with on his return home to Malaysia. It makes one wonder whether God really listens to your prayers in spite of you offering them in front of His 'house', as what Muslims believe the Ka'bah to be. Maybe God has chosen to maintain a policy of non-intervention, which will dovetail with the Muslim belief that God will not change your fate unless you take steps to change it yourself.
Yes, God will not do your job for you. You have to take pains to do that yourself. And if you step in front of a speeding bus and scream, “God, save me!”, you will be dead meat in seconds. Maybe this is what the Prophet Muhammad meant when he was reported as having said, “First you tie your camel, then you pray to God for the safety of your camel.” Malays should take cognizance of this philosophy. You are in control of your own destiny. God will not lift a finger to help you if you yourself refuse to take action. And going to Mekah to pray for help in front of God's 'house' will not prevent the ACA from pressing more charges against you when you return home to Malaysia after performing your Haj.
Awhile back, some 'unknown' sources leaked to the media information that the CCD Director was being investigated for not declaring RM27 million in assets. Take note of this. He was not being investigated for amassing RM27 million in assets. He was being investigated for not declaring these assets. In short, it is not a crime for a police officer acquiring RM27 million in assets. It is only a crime if he does not fill in this little form declaring those assets. They don't care a damn how you acquired those assets. They care only if you don't fill in this form declaring them. It is, therefore, a mere 'technical' offence.
But when this CCD Director was finally charged, it was not for either acquiring or failing to declare RM27 million in assets. It was for 'abusing' his authority by flying over the Sabah jungles in a police aeroplane. Yes, the man who was then the Commissioner of Police for Sabah and who drives around town with a flag on the bonnet of his car is going to be sent to jail for flying in a plane that in the first place was under his jurisdiction. If that is a crime then the entire government would be in jail for driving or flying in a government-owned asset. And some like the Cabinet members, which include the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister, even bring their family, friends, business acquaintances and girlfriends along for the joyrides. And we, the taxpayers, are paying for all this.
What is the real issue here? Is it that the CCD Director abused his authority by using a police plane? Is it that he acquired RM27 million in assets and did not declare them? No, none of the above, so read on.
The CCD Director challenged the allegation of failing to declare his assets. He enlisted the help of a lawyer to prepare his defence. He enlisted the help of a firm of accountants to audit his income and expenditure and to prepare a detailed statement of accounts the thickness of an Encyclopaedia Britannica of his financial affairs for 37 years from 1970 to 2007. The lawyer prepared his defence, and with the detailed statement of accounts as evidence, demolished the entire allegation and ripped the charge of failing to declare assets to shreds.
It was a superb piece of defence and the CCD Director was elated that the government had no case against him and that his lawyer and accountants had been able to rebut every allegation down to the last ten cents. Then the ACA made a surprise visit to the lawyer's office a day before Hari Raya and arrested him, and you will not believe this, for also failing to declare his assets. That's right, the lawyer who had superbly prepared the CCD Director's defence that would now see the latter off the hook was himself arrested by the ACA. The target of the investigation, the CCD Director, was not even under arrest yet. The investigation was not yet complete. But his lawyer was arrested and had to spend the night in the ACA lock-up in Putrajaya for 'failing to declare his assets'.
It had nothing to do with the crime of failing to declare assets. It was far from the crime of illegally acquiring assets, which was not even the brunt of the investigation. It was because the CCD Director had arrested the number two of the organised crime syndicate that has just gone national and has its tentacles from South Malaysia all the way up to North Malaysia. Yes, the prostitution, drugs, loan sharking and illegal gambling syndicate had just gone national. And the number one of the syndicate, BK Tan, was alleged to be in partnership with the IGP himself. And the allegation was not based on rumours or idle talk. It was based on numerous Affidavits signed by senior police officers and two underworld figures who submitted sworn testimonies to the Deputy Minister of Internal Security, Johari Baharum.
Now, in case any of you may have forgotten, Johari was the man tasked with the job of sabotaging Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad in last year's Umno Kubang Pasu division elections. The 500 or so delegates were each bribed RM200 to not vote for Mahathir. Four delegates subsequently made police reports and signed Affidavits testifying to this fact, which they lodged with the Umno headquarters when they filed their official complaints. The Umno headquarters, however, said that it had investigated the matter and found no evidence to support the allegation. One of the complainants was later beaten up by some 'bouncers' from the Umno Kubang Pasu division. He of course personally know these Umno people who beat him up in his home in front of his family and he made another police report naming those who beat him up. But the police found no evidence of any assault and no charges were pressed against the Umno gangsters.
Based on the police investigation and the Affidavits signed by the many senior police officers and two underworld figures that a national organised crime syndicate does exist and that it has links all the way to the very top of the police force, Johari instructed the CCD Director to arrest Goh Cheng Poh a.k.a 'Tengku' Goh, the number two in the syndicate, and banish him to Kelantan under Restricted Residence Order. They then started investigating 'Tengku' Goh's boss, BK Tan, with a view that he too would be put out of circulation. A few other second-liner syndicate bosses from Johor were also arrested under the Emergency Ordinance and detained without trial in the Simpang Renggam detention centre. Last week, they were all released by order of the A-G as what we reported in the previous episode of The Corridors of Power, All that crap (read the article here). Action was also taken against all those police officers involved in investigating the organised crime syndicate. Some were arrested and detained overnight in the lock-up. Some were charged for various offences of abuse of power. And one was found dead in his car due to a gunshot wound which until today the police has never explained what happened.
See the following reports on the matter:
1. Malaysia’s organised crime syndicate: all roads lead to Putrajaya
2. The roaches are scurrying and the rats are hurrying
3. Please, IGP, explain this!
4. The latest update on Infohub Sdn Bhd
5. The walls come crumbling down
6. No peace on Peace Hill
7. Who’s running the asylum anyway?
8. Blow away the whistle-blower
9. Nothing but a den of thieves
10. The land of Walt Disney
11. I rather make the ACA a respected agency than a feared one
The Deputy Minister of Internal Security, Johari Baharum, made the decision to investigate the organised crime syndicate. Johari also made the decision to detain half a dozen or so leaders of this organised crime syndicate, which included the number two man, 'Tengku' Goh. Johari signed the order to send them to Simpang Renggam for detention or, in the case of 'Tengku' Goh, for Restricted Residence in Kelantan. And the dozen or so police officers, including the CCD Director, merely carried out the Deputy Minister's order. But when the dozen or so police officers were arrested, Johari kept silent. And when the A-G sent him a letter ordering him to release 'Tengku' Goh, he complied in spite of the evidence proving that all these people were guilty as hell and that the police were just doing what they had been ordered to do.
The issue here is actually quite simple and you do not have to be a genius to figure it out. Johari was at war with the IGP. The IGP was eliminating the underworld figures aligned to him (Johari). In fact, three of these underworld figures had earlier been detained and sent to Simpang Renggam for detention without trial. Johari was alleged to have released them and he was further alleged to have received RM5.5 million in bribes as inducement for releasing them. But no one knew about this until a mysterious website suddenly appeared that revealed this matter of the three detainees being released and the matter of the RM5.5 million bribe. The ACA immediately launched an investigation and it appeared like Johari was about to suffer a big-time fall from power.
Johari hit back. He threatened to reveal that Abdullah and the Umno Supreme Council had instructed him to sabotage Mahathir in last year's Umno Kubang Pasu division meeting. This is a breach of the party's Constitution as well as the party's Code of Ethics. The entire Supreme Council will have to resign, Abdullah included, if this matter became public knowledge. It in fact was already public knowledge as Malaysia Today had already exposed this matter in this same column in an article called Dolahgate (read the article here). But thus far no one had come forward to testify to this and now Johari was threatening to do so.
A deal was struck. The ACA will declare that it had investigated the allegation against Johari and that there is no evidence he had received the RM5.5 million bribe. Johari would then maintain his silence and not put Abdullah and the entire Umno Supreme Council in jeopardy. But Johari was still not satisfied. He got the CCD Director to investigate the parties behind that website alleging he had released three underworld figures aligned to him for a bribe of RM5.5 million. The trail led to the door of the Director of the Criminal Investigation Division (CID), Christopher Wan. Johari was outraged. It was an inside job. Christopher is the IGP's running dog. Therefore, thought Johari, the IGP must have been the one who fixed him up. Johari wanted to strike back and he ordered the CCD Director to move in on the underworld figures aligned to the IGP. And that was why these various underworld personalities were rounded up -- not to clean up the streets and eliminate the prostitution, drugs, loan sharking and illegal gambling syndicate, but to put the IGP's men out of business.
But the IGP had something which Johari did not have. The IGP was in cahoots with the ACA Director and the A-G. It was three against one. And the Prime Minister, who is also the Minister of Internal Security and therefore Johari's boss, needed the IGP, ACA, and A-G more than he needed Johari. So Johari will have to take the fall. But Johari is smart. He is, after all, a politician. He quickly made a deal and abandoned the police officers and allowed them to take the fall instead. Well, if he can sabotage his ex-boss, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, who brought him up from a mere schoolteacher to where he is today, then what are a dozen police officers by comparison? So those who carried out the order will be going to jail while he who gave the order is sitting pretty. This should serve as a lesson to all civil servants, including the police force. Never do the bidding of the politicians because when the chips are down you will be left holding the baby.
The six pages of the Affidavit signed by Johari below tell the whole story, so we really do not need to explain it again in detail.. Suffice to say, the order to break the organised crime syndicate and arrest its leaders came from Johari. Item 32 of the Affidavit states that 'Tengku' Goh actually confessed to his crime. Item 8 of the Affidavit states that on 12 March 2007 Johari gave the order to launch the investigation. Johari further admits in item 14 that on 5 July 2007 he signed the warrant of arrest. But it is the police officers and the lawyer who will be going to jail, not Johari.
And where does Abdullah Ahmad Badawi come in on all this? Abdullah's hands are tied. He had earlier ordered the IGP to detain BSA Tahir under Section 8 of the Internal Security Act. If the police had detained him under Section 73, then the Special Branch would have him for 60 days. And once they have him they can interrogate him and find out who else is behind Scomi's export of nuclear components to Libya. This would be dangerous as Scomi belongs to Abdullah's son, Kamal, and once the interrogation reveals that Kamal knew all along what was going on and that he is not an unwitting party to the whole thing as they say he is, then the United States will want Kamal's head on a silver platter.
So Tahir was detained under Section 8 of the Internal Security Act which is signed by Abdullah himself and not by the police. Section 8 is the Minister's prerogative, not the police's who can only detain you under Section 73. And this is exactly what happened to the HINDRAF 5 as reported in the previous episode of The Corridors of Power, All that crap (read the article here). But an even more interesting question is not why was Tahir detained under Section 8 instead of Section 73 of the Internal Security Act which will allow the Special Branch to investigate who else are behind the Scomi centrifuge scandal? What is more important is where is Tahir now? He is supposed to have been detained under the Internal Security Act, which means he is in the Kamunting Detention Centre. But is he there? And if he is not there then where is he?
Yes, that is an even more important question than the question of why he was detained under Section 8 instead of Section 73 of the Internal Security Act. Tahir is not under detention. Tahir is under protective custody. He is under protective custody so that the Malaysian Special Branch and the American CIA can't get their hands on him. And Abdullah has the power to do this as he did for the HINDRAF 5 whom the Special Branch are also dying to get their hands on but can't.
Abdullah is not entirely in control though. The IGP, A-G and ACA chief have their own unholy trinity. And they will serve Abdullah just as long as Abdullah does not step on their toes. The Dolahgate affair, the Scomi centrifuge affair, and the Oil-for-Food affair are enough to put Abdullah away for a long time. But that will only happen if the IGP, A-G and ACA decide to launch a case against him. And it appears like at the moment 'got no case lah'. So Johari is on his own in his war with the IGP. And the two rival organised crime syndicates will have to fight it out in the turf war for control of the prostitution, drugs, loan sharking and illegal gambling rackets. And the way it is currently going, the IGP's side will win because Johari has backed off and has allowed the dozen or so police officers to become the sacrificial lambs.
Yes, not only goats, sheep, cows and camels are being sacrificed this Hari Raya Haji. Police officers too are being sacrificed. I shed no tears for police who detain Malaysians without trial and beat up detainees under custody. I also shed no tears for police who serve the political masters instead of the rakyat who are paying their salaries. But I have to admit I do pity these police officers who were used in the organised crime syndicate turf war between the Deputy Minister of Internal Security and the IGP and will all soon go to jail for the crime of 'saya hanya menjalankan arahan'. The next time a police officer gives me that famous and often-used line, I am going to laugh loudly in his face and remind him of what happened to the CCD Director and the dozen or so others when they hanya menjalankan arahan.
written by Motherchell, January 13, 2008 17:01:09
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written by temanmu, December 29, 2007 20:57:44
No rebuttal from the accused implies that they are guilty!
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written by ahmadbadrul40, December 29, 2007 16:07:40
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written by Xerxes, December 28, 2007 15:43:01
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written by Century Patriot, December 28, 2007 07:58:45
AAB’s balls held by IGP,ACA and AG bcos of the skeletons in his cupboard. So he has to compromise by extending their tenure of services.
Hobson’s choice. AAB also has to succumb to their bidding. Case in point is the approval for the installation of the Police computerized information system which did not go by the normal procedure instead DIRECT communications from IGP to AAB! Of course, mutual benefit is in the equation.
AAB and Johari Baharum for mutual benefit, maintain an equilibrium and impasse status, hence old Jo will be in the line up for next GC! Again Hobson choice for AAB.
Even though the THREE DEVILS have skeletons, Old JO can’t do anything bcos of his own survival and insufficient cloud. AAB can’t do anything bcos of the cause and effect outcome!
CCD Director threw himself behind Old Jo for two reasons ie firstly axe to grind with IGP [ who was his subordinate before ], secondly, thinking that Old Jo is powerful enough as an alliance . Mistake for trusting a politician and insufficient homework.
Out of this, who are the LOSERS and BENEFICIARIES??
Losers are CCD Director due to wrong calculation and walked into a laird of Vipers. The CCD Officers FOR OBEYING LAWFUL ORDERS and MADE AS SCAPE GOATS FOR THE BENEFIT OF CRIME LORDS.
BENEFICIARIES are the Unholy Trinity together with the CRIME LORDS bcos they controlled the VERTICLE and HORIZONTAL of the society insofar as crime is concerned. AAB and SIL can sail without any hindrance.
The overall major LOSERS are we, the public bcos our criminal justice system have been infiltrated and fragmented to such an extent that they have become IMPOTENT. Crimes rate will keep rising, our children will perpetually be exposed to all types of vices and THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF US CAN DO!! How’s that for a thought.
Our future is as bleak as the Palestinians in their struggle against Zionist Israel !!
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written by temanmu, December 27, 2007 17:36:11
The fact that this article, after one week, is still available in public and the author still at large, speaks volumes!!!
RKP has openly accused many VIPs of multiple crimes and without consequence! No police reports, no liable suits...
What does it imply? This article is 100% true!
Also shows that for UMNO and its cronies, * MONEY * is
- more important than INTEGRITY,
- more important than DIGNITY,
- more important than HONOUR,
- more important than their professed GOD (for some).
Kepimpinan tidak bermaruah,
Rakyat kesengsaraan,
Negara merosot.
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written by periasa, December 27, 2007 15:21:21
I am an ardent follower of your blog. You are simply amazing...with facts and documentary evidence to support your comments and viewpoints. What puzzles me is...I am very sure your blog is being read by all and sundry including those running this country. Why then no action has been instituted to investigate and arrest all these guys involved in such practises by the relevant authorities?
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written by malaysianohope, December 27, 2007 08:54:28
Everyone fighting for their own selfish interest behind the back of a sleeping PM.
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written by malaysianohope, December 27, 2007 03:06:34
Perhaps if this article and others elsewhere can be disseminated to the public at large in a leaflet or flyers form, fully funded by us bloggers and friendly parties, we can capture more audience to show they that they been had all these years.
You see our weakness is the audience who don't read the blogs but rather mainstream newspapers which are really garbage.
I tell you if more people come to know this monkey business by the people in power, rest assured there will be more dissent votes against them.
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written by Sword of Justice, December 26, 2007 04:50:31
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written by Docbaker, December 26, 2007 02:17:28
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written by Docbaker, December 26, 2007 02:02:49
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written by sedan, December 25, 2007 05:57:03
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You mean to say it was that cheap? Moonlighting in someone else's taxi rakes up that much on a holiday!
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written by salakkan, December 24, 2007 16:15:03
the quick brown fox jumps over the lousy dog!
do you copy?
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written by fletcher, December 24, 2007 16:01:41
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written by mohrin, December 24, 2007 15:29:53
Do you kopi???
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written by jedyoong, December 23, 2007 15:23:43
or was it always like that but we just din know cos nothing gets reported anyway?
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written by Dogboy, December 23, 2007 15:16:08
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written by bexe, December 23, 2007 11:51:44
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written by alternatif2007, December 23, 2007 09:16:40
Assalamu Alaikum,
I would like to strongly concur with your observations about the use of the word "Allah" in English and any other language. Both from my conversion experience in America and my experience doing da'wah here in Kuwait, it is definitely 100% - without a shadow of a doubt - better to use the word "God" when making da'wah to English speaking people.
This alone is enough to open many hearts and minds since many people think that Muslims worship a different God. I've come across some Arab brothers who insist in using only the word "Allah". They somehow think that it implies Tawhid while the word "God" implies the Trinity, etc., etc.
You know, the problem with such people is not their knowledge of Arabic, but their ignorance of English. The mushriks (disbelievers) at the time of the Prophet (saws) used the word Allah, and so do Arabic-speaking Christians. The word itself in no way implies tawhid. The reason it implies tawhid to Muslims is that they're Muslims. Others use this word in ways that are nothing but shirk.
The word God implies tawhid to me because I have the Islamic concept of Him. It's all in the concept, but has nothing to do with the word itself. Also, there are statements in some da'wah pamphlets that say "all prophets since Adam used the word Allah" and that "the word Allah is exactly the same as the Aramaic word Jesus used for God".
The first statement is baseless and can be proved to be logically incorrect from the Quran. The second statement is incorrect, but the words are only similar, but NOT exactly alike. This whole trend of using "Allah" in English seems to come about rather recently.
Most of the translations and writings done back in the 1940's and 1950's used the word "God", which is a perfectly good translation of the word Allah in Arabic. M.M. Pickthall being the main exception, since he seemed to have used "Allah" in all of the translations that I've seen.
The change came, I believe, as a result of Nasserite Arab Nationalism. Many Arabs I know over here still don't know the difference between Islam and Arab Nationalism! They seem more interesting in defending their pride heritage than really spreading the message. But this is in no way limited to Arabs, I've dealt with Pakistanis, Malaysians, Turks and Afghanis that have the same hang-up.
The mentality of some of these brothers almost approaches that of the Bani Isra'il - the "our God vs. your God" mentality! By the way, I've never met an English-speaking convert to Islam (or Spanish-speaking, or French-speaking) who disagreed with me on this point. Most them went through a stage wondering why (some) Muslims insist on using Allah.
I should also add that I know a lot of Muslims that use "God" when speaking English. I find this rather common among most Egyptians that I know. In Morocco, where I visit quite frequently, the also use Dieu when they parlez francais.
Insh'allah, more Muslims will realize this and our da'wah will become more effective. This is a BIG barrier, but many Muslims don't realize it. Many come up with baseless reasons to justify it (for whatever reason). What do we converts know anyway!!! Ha! Another point before I go...some people like to try to draw exact parallels between English and Arabic words which just don't fit.
The word "ilah" in Arabic can be used for a false god or for Allah. (Like when God says (paraphrased) the "ilah" of Ibrahim", and numerous other example.) Anyone who can read the Quran should know this. However, unlike the word "god" in English, which ALWAYS implies a false god. Non-native English speakers sometimes mistakenly believe that "god" and "God" are the same English word, but they are not. They carry completely different meanings. If they doubt this, then they simply don't know how to speak the English language. And to say that the word "Allah" can only be used for the Supreme Almighty Creator is refuted by the Quran itself.
It clearly says (and I paraphrase here rather liberally) that Christians say that "Allah is Jesus". There you have it, applying "Allah" to something that isn't "Allah" right there in the Quran. You see, what people really mean to say is that you SHOULDN'T use "Allah" for anything except the Almighty Creator, but you still CAN. The same thing goes for the word God.
People can use it in the wrong way, but that doesn't make it right. The truth is that this word too should only be used for the Almighty Creator. Remember...God has sent prophets to everyone in their OWN LANGUAGE, i.e. a language that they can understand. How many more people around the world wouldn't be dying on SHIRK if many Muslims woke up and started making da'wah in a way people can understand? Well, I've spoken my peace.
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written by Dogboy, December 23, 2007 07:05:38
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written by Bukit Chandan, December 23, 2007 05:55:31
We want to see what the PM is gonna do with BK Tan and CP Goh.
Best Regards.........
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
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written by Hope4all, December 23, 2007 03:18:30
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written by Zym Zym, December 22, 2007 03:22:38
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written by skc, December 22, 2007 02:36:43
Signnnnnnnnnn, sometimes really wonder why is people doing all these things. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel ?
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written by Anak Desa, December 21, 2007 19:44:31
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written by teo siew chin, December 21, 2007 15:08:54
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written by Long Man, December 21, 2007 14:48:19
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written by confuseus, December 21, 2007 13:48:34
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written by confuseus, December 21, 2007 13:14:41
We do not need all these IDIOTS' POLITICIANS to run (around and around) this country. Even if the parliament is dissolved PERMANENTLY, we can still progress efficiently since we still have the Government servants i.e. C.Judge (alas, Fairuz gone), C.Military, IGP (not Musa), AG (not Gani), KSN, (SPR Chairman-obsolete) etc, a Khalifah as a Chief Whip, RPK as the Chief Psychiatrist (to console and rehabilitate all these out of work politicians) and Confuseus as the Encephalon.
Malaysia will be blissful ever after.
What say you, RPK ?
Confuseus says “DEMOCRACY IS SECULARISMâ€Â
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written by confuseus, December 21, 2007 13:12:17
Where are the so called "ulamak and umarak".... how can they live with all these kemungkaran.
From this moment, I have no respect for the incumbents... they all should go to hell in this world, no need to wait till after life.
Here is to "The rise of the reluctant leaders"
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written by Mat Saman Kati, December 21, 2007 12:38:44
Dan bagi mereka yang sudah lupa tentang kes Anwar, Pengarah CCD yang disebut diatas merupakan pegawai polis yang memberitahu Suruhanjaya Diraja untuk menyiasat mata lebam Anwar bahawa orang yang memukul Anwar adalah Tan Sri Rahim Nor.
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written by anon, December 21, 2007 12:02:09
I had a good laugh - thanks. I like the way you write. I mean, you have your facts and are adept at writing.
I really like your first paragraph.... No, Jesus Christ does not live in Putrajaya, so abandon your plan of rushing there this Tuesday.
Keep up the good work Pete.
Best wishes.
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CALLING ALL READERS OF MT,let's use SMS to spread the education. We should take the important points from MT articles, condense them into SMS and send out chain SMS. We should have all all language versions. Encourage everyone to send to everyone else.
We must reach out to all Malaysians, especially the people in the kampongs and new villages !! Let's start today !! Can anyone start posting those SMS in MT so everyone can use ?