And the debate continues (UPDATED with Chinese and BM Translation)
Australia has gone through this same debate before. Does Australia ‘kick out’ the Queen and declare itself a Republic or does it retain the Queen as ‘Head of State’? The only difference between Australia and Malaysia (other than that the Queen lives in England and not Australia while Malaysia’s Agong lives in Malaysia and not England) is that in Australia they are matured enough to debate this issue while in Malaysia it is a crime under the Sedition Act to suggest we abolish the Monarchy in favour of a Republic
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
The main grievance against the Monarchy appears to be the issue of the cost involved in retaining it. Okay, let us hypothetically argue that we retain the Malaysian Monarchy but they shall not be paid any salary. Yes, the Agong, the seven Sultans (Kedah, Perak, Selangor, Johor, Pahang, Terengganu and Kelantan) and the Raja of Perlis and Yamtuan Besar of Negeri Sembilan (a total of nine state Rulers and one Federal Head of State) will be retained but will not be paid any salary.
Does that now solve the problem?
Okay, how then do these ten Monarchs survive? They need to eat. They need to pay the salaries of their staff and servants. They need to pay for their water, electricity, telephone charges and whatnot, just like any of us. Maybe they have a higher standard of living and therefore incur a higher cost but they still need to live. How do they pay their living cost?
I suppose, since they are now no longer salaried Monarchs, we would no longer be able to bar them from doing business. We would have to allow them to become contractors and developers and whatnot. Maybe some would set up Nonya restaurants or launderettes and earn a modest income from that. Whatever it is, they would have to join the rat race and compete with the rest of us to put food on the table. They certainly can’t seek employment as VCD salesmen. Imagine one of the Rulers walking along Bukit Bintang selling VCDs. They would have no dignity left and would be smearing the image of the institution of the Monarchy.
Now, you might argue that maybe we should just abolish the Monarchy altogether and that would solve the problem of how they get to eat. If we retain unsalaried Monarchs then we would have to allow them to do business (as certainly they can’t work as employees in factories or offices or as salesmen, waiters, etc.). So, to solve the problem, we just do away with the Monarchy altogether.
That too can be considered. But this would open up another can of worms.
Malaysia is now split into pro-Barisan Nasional and pro-Pakatan Rakyat. And it is almost an equal split of 50:50 going by the results of the last general election in March 2008. That split would disappear and Malaysia would now be split into pro-Republic and pro-Monarchy forces. Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat would sort of disappear (not literally of course but figure of speech) and in its place would emerge the Royalists and the Republicans.
The Republicans, to a large extent, would be the non-Malays with of course quite a fair percentage of Malay support. The Royalists would be mainly Malays with some non-Malay support. The military would most likely be with the Royalists since the nine state Monarchs are Chiefs of the various branches of the Armed Forces while the Agong is Commander-in-Chief of the entire Armed Forces.
Malaysian politics would revert to what it used to be back in the 1960s with one race on one side of the political divide and the other races on the opposite side. No doubt, even back in the 1960s there were a number of Malays with the opposition and non-Malays with the Alliance Party of Umno, MCA and MIC. However, by and large, you could say that pro-government meant Malay (including the military) while anti-government meant non-Malay. (Ever wonder why the army was with Umno in the race riots that ensued soon after?)
I have been accused of ‘defending’ the Monarchy because I am from the ‘royal family’. Me, who is persona non grata in the Selangor Palace? Do you know that the Sultan of Selangor whacked me in public in the presence of the Selangor State Government officers plus also the IGP, Musa Hassan, who was beaming from ear to ear, very delighted to see his enemy getting blasted by no less than the Sultan himself?
I am no Royalist. I can support the idea of a Republic any time. But I am also a realist. And the reality of the situation is we have come a long way over more than 40 years since the 1960s to unite Malaysians, not along racial lines, but according to ideology. It is the mission and vision that counts, not the colour of your skin. But there are three things that would unite the Malays along racial lines and tear down what we have built since March 2008. And those three things are Islam, the Malay language, and the Raja-raja Melayu.
The Malays have taken that first step into non-race-based politics. It took more than 50 years but finally the Malays have been able to discard the race agenda in favour of the bigger agenda of good governance. Maybe it is still only 49% of the Malays while 51% of the Malays are still clinging to the ‘old ways’. But it is a far departure from what used to be and a giant leap forward as far as I am concerned.
We have managed to drag the Malays out of their cocoon. We have succeeded in teaching them that civil liberties and good governance is the way to go, not race. That is a huge ‘culture shock’ for most Malays and many are still wondering whether they did the right thing on 8 March 2008 by voting for the opposition and thereby allowing the Chinese (meaning DAP and some in PKR) to gain a foothold in Penang, Perak and Selangor.
You might say that Gerakan, MCA and MIC (meaning non-Malays) also ‘shared power’ when Barisan Nasional was ruling those states. But everyone knows that Barisan Nasional means Umno while in Pakatan Rakyat there is no Malay boss so to speak and all are equal. (Just see how Anwar and PAS gets whacked whereas in Barisan Nasional would any of the non-Umno leaders dare do the same? They do and they ‘die’, as has been proven time and again)
It will take at least another generation or two for the Malays to become comfortable with talk of abolishing the Monarchy and turning Malaysia into a Republic. In time that will certainly happen because Monarchies, even Constitutional Monarchies, are relics of the past. So we would probably no longer see Monarchies come the year 2100. I will be very old by then of course considering I will be 60 by 2010. But it will happen and maybe long after I, and the rest of you, are dead and buried.
One step at a time. We have come a long way since Merdeka in 1957. And we still have a long way to go. It took 50 years for the Malays to reject race-based politics. It may take another 50 years for the Malays to reject the rest such as their feudalistic attitude and sentiments of days of old.
In fact, this is Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad’s greatest complaint about the Malays. The Malays are too feudalistic, said Mahathir. And that is why he failed in his two attempts to cut down the power of the Rulers back in the 1980s. The Malays, other than only some in Umno, would not support Mahathir during the Constitutional Crisis and he had no choice but to back down and admit defeat.
And that is still the same today.
The most important thing to understand is that the call to end the Monarchy must not come from the non-Malays. We have to let this be what the Malays want. And it will happen, in time. If the Malays fight to remove the Monarchy then there will be some but very little resistance. But if it comes from the non-Malays, and now, before the Malays are ready, the Malays would resist it and this would result in us sending the Malays back to Umno and we would undo everything that we have achieved thus far.
It is not about money even though to many Malaysia Today readers it is just about that, the money. It is about the sentimental attitude of the Malays towards their Raja-raja Melayu. But, as I said, that is beginning to change. Remember when they kicked out the Pakatan Rakyat government in Perak and swore in Barisan Nasional as the new government? It was the Malays and not the non-Malays who assembled in Bukit Chandan after Friday prayers and lay down on the road to block the Sultan’s car from getting to the palace and threw stones at the Sultan’s entourage. It was all Malays, not non-Malays.
Would you have seen something like this, say even two years ago? Could you have imagined Malays defying the Sultan and lying down on the road to block his car and throwing stones at the Sultan’s car? Today, that has happened. And it took hundreds of years for that to happen. So give time for the rest to happen as well.
Malaysia will have to change, one day. And then the Malays will also have to change. All those relics of the past would soon enough be removed. But we need time for that to happen. And we are talking about the Raja-raja Melayu. So we have to allow time for the Melayu to be ready to remove their Raja-raja.
In France it was the French who removed their Monarchy. In China it was the Chinese. In India it was the Indians. Unfortunately, in Malaysia, it will have to be the Malays and not Malaysians who remove the Monarchy. Any other way would create more damage than good from abolishing the Monarchy.
That is my take on the Republic versus the Monarchy debate. And it is not about the money.
Translated into Chinese at: http://xtremeapril.blogspot.com/2009/12/blog-post_4041.html
Translated into BM at: http://gomalaysian.blogspot.com/2009/12/raja-petra-maka-perdebatan-pun.html
Comments (54)
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written by usurper, December 22, 2009 15:00:10
written by usurper, December 22, 2009 15:00:10
Logger123 very stupid lah! How do have KETUANAN MELAYU when Tuan is sooo stooopid. Bumi Putra konon, my arse!
What was the constitution for; to hoodwink all the other races, including the smart Malays? The existence of the Sultans is a right for all races. This right is more so pronounced when almost all the tax payers have been the ones who eat more pork than belachan! If the Kafirs have no rights then these "Bidadaris" called Bumi Putrans(usurped name from the tamil language), shld not use money paid by the Kafirs to bail out the Sultan's gambling debts, educate the Muslims and build Mosques! Sorry lah, I do not want a Tuan soo stoopid. Let the Monarchy exist but not BN and Ketuanan Bodoh.
What was the constitution for; to hoodwink all the other races, including the smart Malays? The existence of the Sultans is a right for all races. This right is more so pronounced when almost all the tax payers have been the ones who eat more pork than belachan! If the Kafirs have no rights then these "Bidadaris" called Bumi Putrans(usurped name from the tamil language), shld not use money paid by the Kafirs to bail out the Sultan's gambling debts, educate the Muslims and build Mosques! Sorry lah, I do not want a Tuan soo stoopid. Let the Monarchy exist but not BN and Ketuanan Bodoh.
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written by Jeevan, December 22, 2009 12:21:17
written by Jeevan, December 22, 2009 12:21:17
written by Logger123, December 22, 2009 11:17:42
"Do you think that genteel Malays will support a slave's (vs a conqueror’s) descendent to assert that the Malay rulers be gone? Its akin to Koreans asking the Japanese to get rid of their emperor. Do not underestimate the perspective of the indigenous people especially along the ethnic class lines in this country. Wonder why so many Indians die in police custody? "
Bit of a moot point dude. Just as 80% of Indian Malaysians are descended from indentured labourers brought in brought in over the past 200 years, the Malays were also slaves till a couple of hundred years ago. The argument works both ways. And what does Indians dying in police custody have to do with anything apart from the fact that the police force in malaysia is pretty bloodthirsty.
In Islam's perspective a person is reborn upon becoming Muslim? Then why hold on to any vestige of Hindu traditions and names when it comes to the monarchy. Permaisuri is Parameswari, wife of Siva. You can't have your cake and eat it dude. If the monarchy drops all connections to Hinduism and the even older Dravidian traditions, including the taboos that accompany the use of the Kris, to give you an idea of how much the Monarchy and Malay culture still think of everything as their own when it is just borrowings, then your argument becomes valid. Otherwise you are just using the title Defenders of Islam as a screen to continue with traditions that arise from kaffir beliefs. And as long as my kaffir beliefs and names and meanings are used by my King, He is as much mine as he is yours.
"Do you think that genteel Malays will support a slave's (vs a conqueror’s) descendent to assert that the Malay rulers be gone? Its akin to Koreans asking the Japanese to get rid of their emperor. Do not underestimate the perspective of the indigenous people especially along the ethnic class lines in this country. Wonder why so many Indians die in police custody? "
Bit of a moot point dude. Just as 80% of Indian Malaysians are descended from indentured labourers brought in brought in over the past 200 years, the Malays were also slaves till a couple of hundred years ago. The argument works both ways. And what does Indians dying in police custody have to do with anything apart from the fact that the police force in malaysia is pretty bloodthirsty.
In Islam's perspective a person is reborn upon becoming Muslim? Then why hold on to any vestige of Hindu traditions and names when it comes to the monarchy. Permaisuri is Parameswari, wife of Siva. You can't have your cake and eat it dude. If the monarchy drops all connections to Hinduism and the even older Dravidian traditions, including the taboos that accompany the use of the Kris, to give you an idea of how much the Monarchy and Malay culture still think of everything as their own when it is just borrowings, then your argument becomes valid. Otherwise you are just using the title Defenders of Islam as a screen to continue with traditions that arise from kaffir beliefs. And as long as my kaffir beliefs and names and meanings are used by my King, He is as much mine as he is yours.
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written by Logger123, December 22, 2009 11:17:42
written by Logger123, December 22, 2009 11:17:42
Well Jeevan, while you quote history to support that all 3 races have a say on the Raja Raja Melayu, I too point to history to assert that it is the Malays call on this matter.
For a Muslim, once a person converts to Islam, then the person is reborn. Thus the Malay rulers are Muslims now, with legacy Hindu customs. The Malay rulers are today, the head of Islam, and essentially the defender of Malay Adat (AdatTemenggung and Adat Perpatih) and Islam in Malaya.
The ancient Indians ceased to have a permanent presence after the early visits and the locals adopted their practices and beliefs until the arrival of Islam and the Europeans. With the exception of the descendants of Chettis of 15th century in Malacca, the Indians here today are recent arrivals to this land and are mostly (with the exception of some traders and 20% or so of civil servants brought in by the Brits) descendents of indentured (the politically correct term for debt slaves) labor. Do you think that genteel Malays will support a slave's (vs a conqueror’s) descendent to assert that the Malay rulers be gone? Its akin to Koreans asking the Japanese to get rid of their emperor. Do not underestimate the perspective of the indigenous people especially along the ethnic class lines in this country. Wonder why so many Indians die in police custody?
With the exception of today’s Peranakan or Baba/Nyonya Chinese of 15th century Malacca, the Chinese here today are mostly descendants of coolies and criminals and are also recent arrivals to this land. Again do you think that genteel Malays will support a coolie’s descendant to assert that the symbol of Malay power and the last vestiges and defense of Malay culture be eliminated? Hearing the loud screams to defend Chinese Culture and Language at the expense of national integration, why would the Malay want to abandon his symbol of Culture and Power?
Malayan Union was a plan that would result in dethroning the Sultans. It united the Malays, at a time of no internet, no sms, no TV, very little cars and poor transport networks. Can you image the kind of passion that inflamed the Malays that led them to work against all odds to oppose the Malayan Union? Even the British masters were defeated on this matter.
Think again. Its debate that is beyond money. Its about the identity of a Malay.
For a Muslim, once a person converts to Islam, then the person is reborn. Thus the Malay rulers are Muslims now, with legacy Hindu customs. The Malay rulers are today, the head of Islam, and essentially the defender of Malay Adat (AdatTemenggung and Adat Perpatih) and Islam in Malaya.
The ancient Indians ceased to have a permanent presence after the early visits and the locals adopted their practices and beliefs until the arrival of Islam and the Europeans. With the exception of the descendants of Chettis of 15th century in Malacca, the Indians here today are recent arrivals to this land and are mostly (with the exception of some traders and 20% or so of civil servants brought in by the Brits) descendents of indentured (the politically correct term for debt slaves) labor. Do you think that genteel Malays will support a slave's (vs a conqueror’s) descendent to assert that the Malay rulers be gone? Its akin to Koreans asking the Japanese to get rid of their emperor. Do not underestimate the perspective of the indigenous people especially along the ethnic class lines in this country. Wonder why so many Indians die in police custody?
With the exception of today’s Peranakan or Baba/Nyonya Chinese of 15th century Malacca, the Chinese here today are mostly descendants of coolies and criminals and are also recent arrivals to this land. Again do you think that genteel Malays will support a coolie’s descendant to assert that the symbol of Malay power and the last vestiges and defense of Malay culture be eliminated? Hearing the loud screams to defend Chinese Culture and Language at the expense of national integration, why would the Malay want to abandon his symbol of Culture and Power?
Malayan Union was a plan that would result in dethroning the Sultans. It united the Malays, at a time of no internet, no sms, no TV, very little cars and poor transport networks. Can you image the kind of passion that inflamed the Malays that led them to work against all odds to oppose the Malayan Union? Even the British masters were defeated on this matter.
Think again. Its debate that is beyond money. Its about the identity of a Malay.
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written by Daryl, December 22, 2009 03:37:12
written by Daryl, December 22, 2009 03:37:12
Great article.
I don't have issues with royalties but only when they go to bed with the political party than I have BIG issue. If your survival is dependent on a political parties than you are bound to make decisions against the rakyat which are your subject you are suppose to protect. That happened in Perak and what can we do but just bend over and say lets get it over with quick.
I don't have issues with royalties but only when they go to bed with the political party than I have BIG issue. If your survival is dependent on a political parties than you are bound to make decisions against the rakyat which are your subject you are suppose to protect. That happened in Perak and what can we do but just bend over and say lets get it over with quick.
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written by Jeevan, December 21, 2009 23:49:17
written by Jeevan, December 21, 2009 23:49:17
I beg to differ on the argument that it is up to the Malays to decide if the monarchy remains or is removed.
" It is impossible to treat the story of Sang Sapurba, the first Malay raja, as historical. The name, “Maha-Meru,” sufficiently shows that we are upon mythological ground. The story is as follows:— Three young men descend from the heavens of Indra (ka indra-an) upon the mountain Maha-Meru, on the slopes of which they meet two women who support themselves by planting hill-padi. Supernatural incidents mark the advent of the strangers. The very corn in the ground puts forth ears of gold, while its leaves become silver and its stalks copper. One of the new-comers rides on a white bull, and carries a sword called Chora (Sansk. kshura, a razor) samandang-kini. They are received by the natives of the district (Palembang) and made rajas. He who rides the bull becomes king of Menangkabau, and the other two receive minor kingdoms.
It is not difficult to recognise here certain attributes of the god Çiva, with which, by a not unnatural confusion of ideas, Muhammadan Malays, the recipients of the old traditions, have clothed their first raja.
Maha-Meru, or Sumeru, on which are the abodes of the gods, is placed by Hindu geographers in the centre of the earth. Malaya is mentioned in the Puranas as a mountain in which the Godavari and other rivers take their rise. The white bull of Sang Sapurba is evidently the vahan of Çiva, and the name of the sword bears a close resemblance to manda-kini, the name given in heaven to the sacred Ganges, which springs from the head of Çiva. Most of the incidents in the story, therefore, are of purely Hindu origin, and this gives great probability to the conjecture which assigns a Sanskrit source to the word Malayu. The Straits of Malacca abound with places with Sanskrit names. Not to speak of Singha-pura, there are the islands of Langka-wi and Lingga and the towns of Indragiri and Indrapura, &c. Sumeru (in Java), Madura, Ayuthia (in Siam), and many other names, show how great Indian influences have been in past times in the far East. May it not be, therefore, that Malaya or Malayu was the name by which the earliest Sanskrit-speaking adventurers from India denominated the rude tribes of Sumatra and the peninsula with whom they came in contact, just as Jawi is the name given to Malays by the Arabs, the term in either case being adopted by the people from those to whom they looked up with reverence as their conquerors or teachers?"
There is more, "
If it be granted that the story of Sang Sapurba is mythological, it becomes unnecessary to follow any attempt to show that the name of Malayu received additional celebrity from the marriages of granddaughters of Demang Lebar Daun with the Batara of Majapahit and the Emperor of China! The contemptuous style in which Malay, Javanese, and other barbarian rajas are spoken of by ancient Chinese historians leaves but slender probability to the legend that an Emperor of China once took a Malay princess as his wife."
I am afraid that the Malay Sultans and the monarchy are a shared heritage for the three major races in Malaysia.
Good or bad, you will have to reckon with me at the very least, if you even think of touching the person of he who is descended from Siva himself, as legend goes.
" It is impossible to treat the story of Sang Sapurba, the first Malay raja, as historical. The name, “Maha-Meru,” sufficiently shows that we are upon mythological ground. The story is as follows:— Three young men descend from the heavens of Indra (ka indra-an) upon the mountain Maha-Meru, on the slopes of which they meet two women who support themselves by planting hill-padi. Supernatural incidents mark the advent of the strangers. The very corn in the ground puts forth ears of gold, while its leaves become silver and its stalks copper. One of the new-comers rides on a white bull, and carries a sword called Chora (Sansk. kshura, a razor) samandang-kini. They are received by the natives of the district (Palembang) and made rajas. He who rides the bull becomes king of Menangkabau, and the other two receive minor kingdoms.
It is not difficult to recognise here certain attributes of the god Çiva, with which, by a not unnatural confusion of ideas, Muhammadan Malays, the recipients of the old traditions, have clothed their first raja.
Maha-Meru, or Sumeru, on which are the abodes of the gods, is placed by Hindu geographers in the centre of the earth. Malaya is mentioned in the Puranas as a mountain in which the Godavari and other rivers take their rise. The white bull of Sang Sapurba is evidently the vahan of Çiva, and the name of the sword bears a close resemblance to manda-kini, the name given in heaven to the sacred Ganges, which springs from the head of Çiva. Most of the incidents in the story, therefore, are of purely Hindu origin, and this gives great probability to the conjecture which assigns a Sanskrit source to the word Malayu. The Straits of Malacca abound with places with Sanskrit names. Not to speak of Singha-pura, there are the islands of Langka-wi and Lingga and the towns of Indragiri and Indrapura, &c. Sumeru (in Java), Madura, Ayuthia (in Siam), and many other names, show how great Indian influences have been in past times in the far East. May it not be, therefore, that Malaya or Malayu was the name by which the earliest Sanskrit-speaking adventurers from India denominated the rude tribes of Sumatra and the peninsula with whom they came in contact, just as Jawi is the name given to Malays by the Arabs, the term in either case being adopted by the people from those to whom they looked up with reverence as their conquerors or teachers?"
There is more, "
If it be granted that the story of Sang Sapurba is mythological, it becomes unnecessary to follow any attempt to show that the name of Malayu received additional celebrity from the marriages of granddaughters of Demang Lebar Daun with the Batara of Majapahit and the Emperor of China! The contemptuous style in which Malay, Javanese, and other barbarian rajas are spoken of by ancient Chinese historians leaves but slender probability to the legend that an Emperor of China once took a Malay princess as his wife."
I am afraid that the Malay Sultans and the monarchy are a shared heritage for the three major races in Malaysia.
Good or bad, you will have to reckon with me at the very least, if you even think of touching the person of he who is descended from Siva himself, as legend goes.
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written by carribeanking7, December 21, 2009 16:58:21
written by carribeanking7, December 21, 2009 16:58:21
Malaysians are a funny bunch, kiasu about their maids stealing from them, but when the BN government robbed them blind for half a century, the collectively returned BN to power.
I repost here what I said on the issue of Republicanism 6 moths ago, because I think its still relevant
written by carribeanking7, June 03, 2009 18:25:37
Pete,
Iam inclined to think, that much of the vitriol toward the monarchy is a knee jerk reaction to the debacle in Perak, when I wrote a polite appeal to Sultan Azlan to consider a third option http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/17756/84/ well many said that I was a naive fool.This was of course avoidable if they had dissolved state assembly as you advised when the tomfoolery was beginning and assemblypersons were mysteriously incommunicado.had Sultan Azlan dissolved the assembly he would be hailed by those who now take him to task.
In fact in some cases when royalty took BN to task with Menteri Besar appointments many cheered.
I have tried explaining to many that the behaviour of the royal household does not negate the Royal institution which is an integral part of our federal constitution, we have yet to know the convoluted consequences of abolishing the monarchy, yet some who have not even read thru the federal constitution glibly demand their removal.These people mistake Royalty for the royal institution.Are we even ready for a Presidential and Governorship system ? Even JKKK system cannot be properly managed.
With a tainted judiciary, partisan police force, askar wataniah hanging on to the home ministers words, I am convinced that if the Monarchy were removed tommorrow Malaysia will become a bonafide banana republic that will give Mugabe a run for his money.
Vijay Kumar Murugavell
I repost here what I said on the issue of Republicanism 6 moths ago, because I think its still relevant
written by carribeanking7, June 03, 2009 18:25:37
Pete,
Iam inclined to think, that much of the vitriol toward the monarchy is a knee jerk reaction to the debacle in Perak, when I wrote a polite appeal to Sultan Azlan to consider a third option http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/17756/84/ well many said that I was a naive fool.This was of course avoidable if they had dissolved state assembly as you advised when the tomfoolery was beginning and assemblypersons were mysteriously incommunicado.had Sultan Azlan dissolved the assembly he would be hailed by those who now take him to task.
In fact in some cases when royalty took BN to task with Menteri Besar appointments many cheered.
I have tried explaining to many that the behaviour of the royal household does not negate the Royal institution which is an integral part of our federal constitution, we have yet to know the convoluted consequences of abolishing the monarchy, yet some who have not even read thru the federal constitution glibly demand their removal.These people mistake Royalty for the royal institution.Are we even ready for a Presidential and Governorship system ? Even JKKK system cannot be properly managed.
With a tainted judiciary, partisan police force, askar wataniah hanging on to the home ministers words, I am convinced that if the Monarchy were removed tommorrow Malaysia will become a bonafide banana republic that will give Mugabe a run for his money.
Vijay Kumar Murugavell
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written by Tompios, December 21, 2009 11:17:14
written by Tompios, December 21, 2009 11:17:14
Dear RPK,
The only everlasting in this world is the changing itself. I believe soon or later, even Malaysia will break to pieces including the Monarchies itself. If ever people change their taste. Yes, changing from Monarchy government to Republican is similar from Bachelor to Married status. If we get benefits to stay as bachelor than keep it up but if we need to change life taste from bachelor to married than erection ability cannot be avoided. Erection's factor is much needed!! In short, personally, I don't need this debate. But, thank you for providing this segment for those who are eager to know what Republican is all about.
The only everlasting in this world is the changing itself. I believe soon or later, even Malaysia will break to pieces including the Monarchies itself. If ever people change their taste. Yes, changing from Monarchy government to Republican is similar from Bachelor to Married status. If we get benefits to stay as bachelor than keep it up but if we need to change life taste from bachelor to married than erection ability cannot be avoided. Erection's factor is much needed!! In short, personally, I don't need this debate. But, thank you for providing this segment for those who are eager to know what Republican is all about.
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written by Logger123, December 21, 2009 10:37:33
written by Logger123, December 21, 2009 10:37:33
The point is, as RPK pointed out, its about Raja Raja Melayu. Not Raja Raja Cina atau India atau Malaysia. So to the folks who think that the monarchy costs money, let the Malays decide on what they want to do with their feudal system.
After all we have let MCA and the Dong Zhong turn the Chinese schools into institutions that churn out DVD & Drug peddlars, Ah Longs and Pimps. Do the Malays say to close down these schools for producing such criminals that tax society's children and justice system?
Moreover, 40% of the Gov budget is paid by Petronas from oil from the Tanah. Plus from the GLCs and other crony linked Chinese conglomerates like Berjaya and IOI. So how much of our personal income tax is a significant % of Gov income that pays the royalty?? So why fuss? If you want to fuss, fuss over the criminal production system in Malaysia.
Once Umno wants to cut cost and decide to only bankroll the UMNOputras over the Royals, then the tipping point will come for the Malays on this subject.
After all we have let MCA and the Dong Zhong turn the Chinese schools into institutions that churn out DVD & Drug peddlars, Ah Longs and Pimps. Do the Malays say to close down these schools for producing such criminals that tax society's children and justice system?
Moreover, 40% of the Gov budget is paid by Petronas from oil from the Tanah. Plus from the GLCs and other crony linked Chinese conglomerates like Berjaya and IOI. So how much of our personal income tax is a significant % of Gov income that pays the royalty?? So why fuss? If you want to fuss, fuss over the criminal production system in Malaysia.
Once Umno wants to cut cost and decide to only bankroll the UMNOputras over the Royals, then the tipping point will come for the Malays on this subject.
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written by popuri, December 21, 2009 10:02:42
written by popuri, December 21, 2009 10:02:42
Whether or not to abolish the monarch is not for me to decide. But the 3rd palace?
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written by budakindia, December 21, 2009 09:51:58
written by budakindia, December 21, 2009 09:51:58
Yes Pete! We are waiting for that to happen! We shall support that idea all the way through! 
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written by strifus, December 21, 2009 00:24:47
written by strifus, December 21, 2009 00:24:47
I have to agree with your on this RPK. The fact is that is, and always has been, that Malaysia's future has always been in the hands of the Malays. I dont pretend to know the demographics of malays but as of 1990s, as far as schooling is concerned, only a handful of malays are in the top 10% of graduates from Malaysian High Schools (I am not so sure about the figures for present day). That figure is staggering mainly for one reason, that most malays dont really care about education.
It reminds me of LAT's "The Kampung Boy". He had to go to boarding school at his father's insistance i think. However it goes to show how unimportant malays saw education back then. One thing that LAT had that most malays might never have is the chance to go overseas, something that he said himself, opened his eyes. With the majority of malays not having their eyes opened by different cultures and ideas, it not a big stretch to see them thinking in such small terms, ie ketuanan melayu is one. The aboriginals of Australia is probably the best example of how malays are thinking except that British empire never treated the malays the way they did with the aboriginals.
You are right RPK. I have seen Malaysia change in the past 40 years. I have seen, in terms of change, the good and the bad. Unfortunately, if Malaysia is to truly be a democracy, there are several areas where it has to change, the most important being malays getting the heads out of the sand and going out there to achieve something. I mean, seriously, the world is a bad place and the malays have had it good for so long and they really think that they deserve it. If they were in any other country, they would see that how small they are in terms of the entire world.
Lets face it. As far as this article is concerned, malays have to make the change up in their minds about where they want to go. However, it is not just them that have to make changes. The way I see it, the other races in the Malaysia also have an important role to play in that they also have to change their ways. To achieve this goal, everyone has to chip in for the betterment of all. At this point, all I see is only a select few getting their hands dirty for the others. Perhaps, these others have no courage, or just want to ride on the backs of others, or just dont want to get involved due to reprisals. Like i just said, the nation has to become one for any changes to occur on a wholescale leverl. Then, and only then, will Malaysia become a true force in SE Asia, if not the Pacific Rim.
It reminds me of LAT's "The Kampung Boy". He had to go to boarding school at his father's insistance i think. However it goes to show how unimportant malays saw education back then. One thing that LAT had that most malays might never have is the chance to go overseas, something that he said himself, opened his eyes. With the majority of malays not having their eyes opened by different cultures and ideas, it not a big stretch to see them thinking in such small terms, ie ketuanan melayu is one. The aboriginals of Australia is probably the best example of how malays are thinking except that British empire never treated the malays the way they did with the aboriginals.
You are right RPK. I have seen Malaysia change in the past 40 years. I have seen, in terms of change, the good and the bad. Unfortunately, if Malaysia is to truly be a democracy, there are several areas where it has to change, the most important being malays getting the heads out of the sand and going out there to achieve something. I mean, seriously, the world is a bad place and the malays have had it good for so long and they really think that they deserve it. If they were in any other country, they would see that how small they are in terms of the entire world.
Lets face it. As far as this article is concerned, malays have to make the change up in their minds about where they want to go. However, it is not just them that have to make changes. The way I see it, the other races in the Malaysia also have an important role to play in that they also have to change their ways. To achieve this goal, everyone has to chip in for the betterment of all. At this point, all I see is only a select few getting their hands dirty for the others. Perhaps, these others have no courage, or just want to ride on the backs of others, or just dont want to get involved due to reprisals. Like i just said, the nation has to become one for any changes to occur on a wholescale leverl. Then, and only then, will Malaysia become a true force in SE Asia, if not the Pacific Rim.
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written by cheekhiaw, December 20, 2009 23:32:51
written by cheekhiaw, December 20, 2009 23:32:51
It is not about the money, it is about earning the keep.
xxx
xxx
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written by BAYANGKARA, December 20, 2009 22:08:10
written by BAYANGKARA, December 20, 2009 22:08:10
OOPS'''
The sentence should read...... "Does anyone know how much are spent on the Sultans every year?
The sentence should read...... "Does anyone know how much are spent on the Sultans every year?
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written by BAYANGKARA, December 20, 2009 22:04:34
written by BAYANGKARA, December 20, 2009 22:04:34
The Sultans are not exactly paupers and would not be, even if the monarchy was abolished tomorrow. They are wealthy in their own right and as a result of their entitlements and they have already gone into business for themselves. So, they would not be like the last Manchu emperor of China who worked as a gardener and did not own any tangible assets. So, money is not a problem then.
Yes, only the Malays can decide if and when to ditch their Sultans owing to the racial and rekigious sensitivities and the many other imponderables. When they decide it is time, owing to the inseparable links to their religion, race and other appendages granted by the Constitution, the Malays have to decide what to retain and what to modify. No easy task.
Monetary considerations as arguments against the monarchy can either way. Does anyone know how much are spent on the every year? Does anyone know whether, when the oil money runs out and Malaysia is still in a rut in the years and decades ahead, monetary constraints become a major concern? As part of a system of checks and balances or as a ceremonial figurehead, how valuable is the monarchy?
I think a constitutional monarchy is still viable and even attractive for Malaysia if it is modified to keep up with the changing times, like the constitutional monarchies of UK, Denmark, Sweden and Spain. In these democracies, political power still lies with the people even though the titular head is a monarch. They function just as well as republics, if not better. We have seen countries with presidential systems still embroiled in constitutional crises and controversies and subject to abuse. Simply because no system is perfect. Too much power in the hands of a Prime Minister is just as bad as that in the hands of a president.
If we still have a constitutional monarchy, maybe we could have a leaner, meaner one. One that is truly above politics, that the rakyat respects and uphold as a bulwark against governmental abuse, that is the standard bearer for freedom, justice and equality, that is a moral authority and the country's conscience. The big question is: are the Sultans up to it?
Right now, they are anything but.
Yes, only the Malays can decide if and when to ditch their Sultans owing to the racial and rekigious sensitivities and the many other imponderables. When they decide it is time, owing to the inseparable links to their religion, race and other appendages granted by the Constitution, the Malays have to decide what to retain and what to modify. No easy task.
Monetary considerations as arguments against the monarchy can either way. Does anyone know how much are spent on the every year? Does anyone know whether, when the oil money runs out and Malaysia is still in a rut in the years and decades ahead, monetary constraints become a major concern? As part of a system of checks and balances or as a ceremonial figurehead, how valuable is the monarchy?
I think a constitutional monarchy is still viable and even attractive for Malaysia if it is modified to keep up with the changing times, like the constitutional monarchies of UK, Denmark, Sweden and Spain. In these democracies, political power still lies with the people even though the titular head is a monarch. They function just as well as republics, if not better. We have seen countries with presidential systems still embroiled in constitutional crises and controversies and subject to abuse. Simply because no system is perfect. Too much power in the hands of a Prime Minister is just as bad as that in the hands of a president.
If we still have a constitutional monarchy, maybe we could have a leaner, meaner one. One that is truly above politics, that the rakyat respects and uphold as a bulwark against governmental abuse, that is the standard bearer for freedom, justice and equality, that is a moral authority and the country's conscience. The big question is: are the Sultans up to it?
Right now, they are anything but.
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written by imanj, December 20, 2009 18:21:30
written by imanj, December 20, 2009 18:21:30
Where RPK writes this article to debate,it surely means for anyone to have just some common courtesy in the opinions.
RPK is still royalty and it would certainly be discourteous to debate improperly or inapproriately.
I am but a common citizen who thinks voting out the Royal family in present times would be disastrous..
All Malaysia needs is the right knid of administration,with the right kind of people,with the right kind of attitude.A country requires to function for the very need of its nation's survival.The people of the country should be taught to know the good and bad of everything,acknowledge the History and formation of this country and always be open to view new research and discoveries that relates to Malaysia,its people,their beginings and generations...and to accept the fast growing demands in the global world..
We must bulid kindness,determination and humble attributes together.There is much in our History that has allowed for many ways in our present state.The ordinary person has not the power to insult Royalty,no good comes of it..It would be the Government you choose in a democratic state,that would give you the power to expect what's right is done by you as a nation..
RPK is still royalty and it would certainly be discourteous to debate improperly or inapproriately.
I am but a common citizen who thinks voting out the Royal family in present times would be disastrous..
All Malaysia needs is the right knid of administration,with the right kind of people,with the right kind of attitude.A country requires to function for the very need of its nation's survival.The people of the country should be taught to know the good and bad of everything,acknowledge the History and formation of this country and always be open to view new research and discoveries that relates to Malaysia,its people,their beginings and generations...and to accept the fast growing demands in the global world..
We must bulid kindness,determination and humble attributes together.There is much in our History that has allowed for many ways in our present state.The ordinary person has not the power to insult Royalty,no good comes of it..It would be the Government you choose in a democratic state,that would give you the power to expect what's right is done by you as a nation..
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written by AsamLaksa, December 20, 2009 18:13:09
written by AsamLaksa, December 20, 2009 18:13:09
Who is this cleric? Anyone heard of him before?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8423046.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosein-Ali_Montazeri
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8423046.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosein-Ali_Montazeri
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written by Yacob, December 20, 2009 16:23:16
written by Yacob, December 20, 2009 16:23:16
Saya rasa perlantikkan raja-raja hendaklah ditentukan oleh rakyat sendiri. Hanya raja yang pro rakyat sahaja dilantik menjadi sultan/raja/dipertuan. Dengan cara itu, raja-raja akan lebih tunduk kepada kehendak rakyat.
Perlantikan secara tradisi seperti sekarang perlu diubah. Seluruh rakyat tidak kira bangsa mesti diberikan hak untuk mengundi perlantikan raja-raja. Sekali raja itu dilantik, baginda hendaklah bertahta sehingga mangkat. Pewaris hendaklah ditentukan oleh rakyat.
Perlantikan secara tradisi seperti sekarang perlu diubah. Seluruh rakyat tidak kira bangsa mesti diberikan hak untuk mengundi perlantikan raja-raja. Sekali raja itu dilantik, baginda hendaklah bertahta sehingga mangkat. Pewaris hendaklah ditentukan oleh rakyat.
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written by Rainbowseahorse, December 20, 2009 15:23:08
written by Rainbowseahorse, December 20, 2009 15:23:08
..."So we would probably no longer see Monarchies come the year 2100. I will be very old by then of course considering I will be 60 by 2010. But it will happen and maybe long after I, and the rest of you, are dead and buried."....
My brother Pete, I don't know about you, but (as the will of God) I plan to live forever lah!..hehehe...
Yes, I agree more then 100% with you in your above thoughts. The royalties will be around until our Malays decide otherwise or simply cannot afford for their up-keeps....but then, we'll probably see some poor old farmers hauling food staffs to the palaces every morning....sighhhh... Such is tradition ingrained and embedded into some of our Malays. And they will gladly, and willingly, lay down their lives for their Raja-raja Melayu.
My brother Pete, I don't know about you, but (as the will of God) I plan to live forever lah!..hehehe...
Yes, I agree more then 100% with you in your above thoughts. The royalties will be around until our Malays decide otherwise or simply cannot afford for their up-keeps....but then, we'll probably see some poor old farmers hauling food staffs to the palaces every morning....sighhhh... Such is tradition ingrained and embedded into some of our Malays. And they will gladly, and willingly, lay down their lives for their Raja-raja Melayu.
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written by truthbespoken, December 20, 2009 14:14:25
written by truthbespoken, December 20, 2009 14:14:25
I tend to agree with batsman's discerning comments posted today at: 06:15:01, 06:23:30 and 12:54:08 .
Logical, especially on the perception that UMNO is the cause of all troubles and must be first be removed by the electorate...even if it is to be carried out against the combined tainted forces of the PDRM, Judiciary, MACC and some Monarchs who have been working hand in gloves with the corrupt party. Way to go..
Logical, especially on the perception that UMNO is the cause of all troubles and must be first be removed by the electorate...even if it is to be carried out against the combined tainted forces of the PDRM, Judiciary, MACC and some Monarchs who have been working hand in gloves with the corrupt party. Way to go..
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written by batsman, December 20, 2009 12:56:54
written by batsman, December 20, 2009 12:56:54
lvbala - the discussion is on royalty. However, since you raise the point, are you also saying to me that the Indians have their identity all sorted out? and the Chinese have their identity all sorted out? Why are you just picking on the Malays?
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written by batsman, December 20, 2009 12:54:08
written by batsman, December 20, 2009 12:54:08
Rhan - when you introduce a question such as what can people do if royalty does not perform, you are introducing a new front for contention. I submit this is a wasteful distraction. The situation in Malaysia cannot be sorted out if you just sort out the problem of the monarchy. On the other hand the situation has a GOOD chance of being sorted out if UMNO is voted out from power and a more decent democracy achieved in Malaysia.
So quarrels over the monarchy are red herrings which MCA members and UMNO cybertroopers are fond of creating. This is a great distraction. Concentrate on removing UMNO from power, then concentrate on introducing effective checks and balances. This way, the problem of spoilt and misbehaving royalty will be automatically solved by itself.
So quarrels over the monarchy are red herrings which MCA members and UMNO cybertroopers are fond of creating. This is a great distraction. Concentrate on removing UMNO from power, then concentrate on introducing effective checks and balances. This way, the problem of spoilt and misbehaving royalty will be automatically solved by itself.
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written by lvbala, December 20, 2009 12:19:45
written by lvbala, December 20, 2009 12:19:45
In a mid of finding and creating a Malay identity, the Malays actually lost where they are and where they stand. They don't have any foundation to stand and to be proud with. They don't have the origin. They are mix blend and now they are in a mid of creating their own culture, religion, language and so on. They also became greedy knowing they own this country or shall I say, this is a part of their creation of having own country. How they gonna give up what they likely to own. They found it difficult to share because they are afraid of losing it with other races. The Malays are actually confused over this understanding. They need to be explained and made understood. Cheers.
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written by Rhan, December 20, 2009 11:51:23
written by Rhan, December 20, 2009 11:51:23
From what I read, seem like Monarchy is a Malay issue, just like some Muslim claim that Islam is a Malay issue and UMNO use to assert many times UMNO is Malay and Malay is UMNO. The Malay Burden?
We could remove a political party but not a government, we could also remove the head of police but not the whole police force hence the contention that we demand perfection doesn’t sound very logical to me. The question is what people can do if Monarchy don’t perform?
We could remove a political party but not a government, we could also remove the head of police but not the whole police force hence the contention that we demand perfection doesn’t sound very logical to me. The question is what people can do if Monarchy don’t perform?
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written by sydput, December 20, 2009 11:30:58
written by sydput, December 20, 2009 11:30:58
In the west, they make fun of monarchs, religious figures and just about everything else concerning their culture. but they refrain from making fun of minorities religion and culture. Minorities I mean those from asia, particularly the muslims, who they see as devoid of humour and inhuman.
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written by darahkumelayu, December 20, 2009 11:03:31
written by darahkumelayu, December 20, 2009 11:03:31
Please remember these BASIC issues:
1. Our forefather put them there - it suit them at that particular times & we respect it. Now the times change, the situation must adhere!
2. Their BLOODY blood is not BLUE, its just plain red just like ours but they may have more VDRL (syphliss, herpes, etc) than us.
3. They ALSO urinate, passmotion, & fart JUST like us - maybe theirs stink more due to alcohol, corruption, and you can name it.
4. They thought that they CAN do anything, they create situation to suport their existence (BN and ...)
5. The lousy dog never bite the hand that feeds him - we carry them on our shoulder, they shit on us!
1. Our forefather put them there - it suit them at that particular times & we respect it. Now the times change, the situation must adhere!
2. Their BLOODY blood is not BLUE, its just plain red just like ours but they may have more VDRL (syphliss, herpes, etc) than us.
3. They ALSO urinate, passmotion, & fart JUST like us - maybe theirs stink more due to alcohol, corruption, and you can name it.
4. They thought that they CAN do anything, they create situation to suport their existence (BN and ...)
5. The lousy dog never bite the hand that feeds him - we carry them on our shoulder, they shit on us!
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written by Tom n Jerry, December 20, 2009 10:25:00
written by Tom n Jerry, December 20, 2009 10:25:00
Well;if there are other ways of handling this case in the most amicable manner,I would still give it the benefit of my doubt;however for them to be encroaching into politics is certainly unbecoming because politicians are basically slimey;and I dont think they (monarchs) wanted to be in this group as well;food for thought and hopefully the Sultan of Perak is reading this(maybe his attorney!)Insyah Allah the Perak government will be settled very soon;petrifying but true;happened in Sabah long ago ,but is history today;history repeats itself!Alhamdulilah!
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written by talk2stop, December 20, 2009 08:17:17
written by talk2stop, December 20, 2009 08:17:17
Well I can't buy that..
Malaysia will go into a choatic unrest with foreigners like the Indonesians, Vietniameses, Burmese, Bangladesies, pakistanis, Africans killing local people. The streets will be unsafe (now aready not safe) and the goverment will go into a meltdown. The army will be mobolised and 1/2 of them will stay at home to protect their own family and community. The raja raja melayu will flee to Australia.
Malaysia will be the wilderness for years before a messiah (people like Chin Peng) leads them out.
That's how Malaysia becoming a republic. What do you think people?
Malaysia will go into a choatic unrest with foreigners like the Indonesians, Vietniameses, Burmese, Bangladesies, pakistanis, Africans killing local people. The streets will be unsafe (now aready not safe) and the goverment will go into a meltdown. The army will be mobolised and 1/2 of them will stay at home to protect their own family and community. The raja raja melayu will flee to Australia.
Malaysia will be the wilderness for years before a messiah (people like Chin Peng) leads them out.
That's how Malaysia becoming a republic. What do you think people?
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written by batsman, December 20, 2009 06:23:30
written by batsman, December 20, 2009 06:23:30
Further to my argument, please consider this...
UMNO spoils, bullies and dominates the Malays. If some of you get angry with the Malays because of this and take extreme anti-Malay views, you are just pushing the Malays more firmly into UMNO's side. This means you are just doing things to maintain UMNO in power forever.
Now is this not idiotic? Unless of course you are MCA member or UMNO cybertrooper.
UMNO spoils, bullies and dominates the Malays. If some of you get angry with the Malays because of this and take extreme anti-Malay views, you are just pushing the Malays more firmly into UMNO's side. This means you are just doing things to maintain UMNO in power forever.
Now is this not idiotic? Unless of course you are MCA member or UMNO cybertrooper.
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written by batsman, December 20, 2009 06:15:01
written by batsman, December 20, 2009 06:15:01
Loh – Good you raised this issue because in an extremely perverse sort of way you have a point. Royal power is largely ceremonial in Malaysia. UMNO holds monopoly of power. UMNO not only spoils the royals but bullies and victimizes them frequently. UMNO is like an evil guardian that tortures and abuses its charges. The royals gain in terms of some benefits only because UMNO needs their prestige and name for its own evil intentions. This is why UMNO needs to spoil the royals.
However, this does not mean the institution of the monarchy is bad. UMNO also spoils and bullies Malays. This does not mean Malays as a race are bad unless you have a racist viewpoint of the world. It simply means UMNO has screwed up everything in Malaysia including some of the royals.
However, this does not mean the institution of the monarchy is bad. UMNO also spoils and bullies Malays. This does not mean Malays as a race are bad unless you have a racist viewpoint of the world. It simply means UMNO has screwed up everything in Malaysia including some of the royals.
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written by SpeakOut, December 20, 2009 05:42:09
written by SpeakOut, December 20, 2009 05:42:09
RPK is right. I am CHNIESE> Non Malays should not be involved in anything anti -monarchy. let the Malays handle that. BUt as A Chinese I am going to be very harsh with the CHinese for anything involving corrupting the Sultans and his ilk. I will condemn and expose them to shame. I have spoken very emphatically against my friends and relatives who continue to support the BN govt especially UMNO. Outwardly they cricise but at the first opportunity to get some buisness or pay bribery to get out of a mess, they will run to BN/UMNO goons. I called them fools when they queue up to buy the goveernment bonds allocated for the non-malays. I told them BN will not hounour their commitments as they arer now siphoning money out of the country. WAKE UP YOU STUPID CHINESE AND THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF MALYSIA for your children. Stop supporting MCA and gerakan. They are only serving themselves. To you silent CHinese out there who agree with me, please stop sitting on your fence and start rallying support for RPK and similar Malays who are fighting the evil UMNO/BN for a better future for everyone in Malaysia.
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written by wongnoball, December 20, 2009 04:56:25
written by wongnoball, December 20, 2009 04:56:25
Lets face it this is a Pointless exercise of Debating Monarchy in Malaysia when there is no Pillars to defend Democracy Left in Malaysia. In fact unless we Obliterate the Murderous Racist Regime UMNO-BN, you are all giving UMNO opportunity to use their tools with impunity. Rakyat Malaysia be better off burning down one by one Cawangan UMNO and PDRM Balai and HQ.....After All Polis Raja di Malaysia is the Real Raja we want Abolish IN ITS CURRENT FORM!! Demoralise, DISRUPT...DISRUPT..DISRUPT the police, Judiciary, MAC, Jakim, Rela and NGO tools of UMNO are better use of your disenchantment. Leave the Monarch alone......Cannot Let Sultan Munafik Shah of Berak Bog us down.......he was the TIGER Woods of Sultan...until the Truth was revealed...all because of $$$$$$$$. Until today that moment in History have undone the hope people had on Sultan and Royalty......the less said about them the better...Like Bapa Kemerosotan Malaysia Tun Dr, Munafik Muhammed!!
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written by Super Admin, December 20, 2009 03:29:40
written by Super Admin, December 20, 2009 03:29:40
Dear Fido, to the Malays, the Rulers are head of Islam, almost like Caliphs. And you know the Malays are ultra-sensitive when it comes to islam. So the only way the Malays would agree to remove the head of Islam would be to change to an Islamic Republic. So it is not far-fetched that you remove the Monarchy and get an islamic Republic in its place.
RPK
RPK
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written by KotaDamansara73, December 20, 2009 03:14:29
written by KotaDamansara73, December 20, 2009 03:14:29
Recently just read an article from Asia Times online that all of asians heritage originated from India. To be precise, Tamil Nadu province. The Indians migrated first to Thailand, and then Malaysia, Indonesia and then only to China.
So all of us are the ancestor of India, including those racist UMNO Putras.
Here is the article
"MUMBAI - Since "thai" means "mother" in classical Tamil, the language of the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu and said to be the oldest living language in the world, "thailand" means motherland. However, India could be an ancient "motherland" of Thailand and Asia in a more literal sense, according to a new investigative study, "'Mapping Human Genetic Diversity in Asia".
The findings, from an unprecedented collaboration of over 80 researchers and 40 scientific institutions across Asia [1], reveal a twist in the history of human migration. It points to India, then Thailand and Southeast Asia, being the ancestral home to most Asians. "
So all of us are the ancestor of India, including those racist UMNO Putras.
Here is the article
"MUMBAI - Since "thai" means "mother" in classical Tamil, the language of the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu and said to be the oldest living language in the world, "thailand" means motherland. However, India could be an ancient "motherland" of Thailand and Asia in a more literal sense, according to a new investigative study, "'Mapping Human Genetic Diversity in Asia".
The findings, from an unprecedented collaboration of over 80 researchers and 40 scientific institutions across Asia [1], reveal a twist in the history of human migration. It points to India, then Thailand and Southeast Asia, being the ancestral home to most Asians. "
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written by Super Admin, December 20, 2009 02:52:16
written by Super Admin, December 20, 2009 02:52:16
johanssm, so how do you want me to respond to your kurang ajar comment? Should I say I don't care two hoots what you think and if you don't like living in a Monarchy then go migrate to Singapore which is a Republic? People like you who feel secure throwing stones while hiding your hands make very 'brave' statements. I wonder if you will still be so brave if I reveal your details (
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
). Biadap!
RPK
RPK
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written by AsamLaksa, December 20, 2009 02:24:21
written by AsamLaksa, December 20, 2009 02:24:21
My point is one line:
The debate must go on, but any amendments (if any) can wait.
The debate must go on, but any amendments (if any) can wait.
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written by Ocassey, December 20, 2009 02:00:35
written by Ocassey, December 20, 2009 02:00:35
A VERY WELL ARTICULATED PIECE OF AFFIRMATIVE SUPPORT TO RETAIN AND MAINTAIN THE ROYAL HOUSES IN THE PENINSULAR.
BEFORE THE AGONG WAS CREATED THERE WERE SOME STATES WITHOUT THE ROYALTIES TO RULE. SABAH AND SARAWAK , TOO WERE WITHOUT ROYAL HOUSES. ( LET US JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THE SULU SULTANS ARE OUT OF THE PICTURE.
THE ROYAL HOUSES HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL ROLES TO PERFORM.
AS THE CONSTITUTIONAL HEADS OF STATES THEY MUST BE APOLITICAL AND "NEVER" BE SEEN TO BE LOBSIDED BETWEEN THE RAKYATS AND THE EXECUTIVES. THEY MUST BE STRICTLY NEVER TO PROCURE FOR FAVOURS FOR BUSINESS FROM NEITHER SIDE AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO DRAW MAINTAINANCE FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.
IF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE RULERS ARE WELL-VERSED IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES OF THE
OFFICIAL RELIGION THEN THEY SHOULD REMAIN AS "HEAD" OF THE RELIGION, OTHERWISE,
A NATIONAL COUNCIL SHOULD BE FORMED TO PRECIDE OVER RELIGIOUS MATTERS.
ONE SUGGESTION HERE MAY BE OF SIGNIFICANCE ---- CREATE A "BTN" BY THE RULERS' COUNCIL TO "EDUCATE AND GUIDE" THE ROYALTIES AND THEIR PRINCES AND PRINCESSES TO UPHOLD THEIR DIGNITIES AT ALL TIMES.
DAULAT TUANKU-TUANKU . PATIK MOHON DIAMPUN.
BEFORE THE AGONG WAS CREATED THERE WERE SOME STATES WITHOUT THE ROYALTIES TO RULE. SABAH AND SARAWAK , TOO WERE WITHOUT ROYAL HOUSES. ( LET US JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THE SULU SULTANS ARE OUT OF THE PICTURE.
THE ROYAL HOUSES HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL ROLES TO PERFORM.
AS THE CONSTITUTIONAL HEADS OF STATES THEY MUST BE APOLITICAL AND "NEVER" BE SEEN TO BE LOBSIDED BETWEEN THE RAKYATS AND THE EXECUTIVES. THEY MUST BE STRICTLY NEVER TO PROCURE FOR FAVOURS FOR BUSINESS FROM NEITHER SIDE AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO DRAW MAINTAINANCE FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.
IF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE RULERS ARE WELL-VERSED IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES OF THE
OFFICIAL RELIGION THEN THEY SHOULD REMAIN AS "HEAD" OF THE RELIGION, OTHERWISE,
A NATIONAL COUNCIL SHOULD BE FORMED TO PRECIDE OVER RELIGIOUS MATTERS.
ONE SUGGESTION HERE MAY BE OF SIGNIFICANCE ---- CREATE A "BTN" BY THE RULERS' COUNCIL TO "EDUCATE AND GUIDE" THE ROYALTIES AND THEIR PRINCES AND PRINCESSES TO UPHOLD THEIR DIGNITIES AT ALL TIMES.
DAULAT TUANKU-TUANKU . PATIK MOHON DIAMPUN.
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written by Fido, December 20, 2009 00:29:31
written by Fido, December 20, 2009 00:29:31
It is clearer now for me. Thank you RPK , for clarifying. This makes much more sense than "Malaysia would turn into an Islamic republic" if we do away with the monarchy.
There is a bigger picture beyond the monarchy vs republic debate and we do not want to win a battle and lose a war. I understand what you are saying now - that change must come in stages and we must take into consideration the sentiments of the majority malaysians while allowing change to take place.
Also, I must add to what is already said in this article - that we cannot rest in our laurels that 49% of the malays have broken out of the "race mentality cocoon" and voted for better governance, because a significant portion of that 49% voted AGAINST BN and not FOR PR.
There is a bigger picture beyond the monarchy vs republic debate and we do not want to win a battle and lose a war. I understand what you are saying now - that change must come in stages and we must take into consideration the sentiments of the majority malaysians while allowing change to take place.
Also, I must add to what is already said in this article - that we cannot rest in our laurels that 49% of the malays have broken out of the "race mentality cocoon" and voted for better governance, because a significant portion of that 49% voted AGAINST BN and not FOR PR.
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written by Wave33, December 20, 2009 00:12:10
written by Wave33, December 20, 2009 00:12:10
I support the Monarchy.
The Monarchy would be "The Last Mohican" for the voices of the Rakyat and overrule the politicians.Politicians are known to be lustful for power and greed for money. We need the Monarchy to balance the power and let the Rakyat voices to be heard. Monarchy represent the voices of Rakyat.
Well, it did not happen in Perak, so the rakyat is upset. Hamba mohon derhaka.
Why Thai loves their King? The King represent the Thai, do you think Thaksin represent Thai people?
Well, did the dictator for 22 years represent what people need?
The Rakyat is overly concern whether budget for Monarchy is controlled or free flowing? We mainly concern about the free flowing like happy hours and there is no cap. This could destroy Malaysia like what Marcos did to his country. He lives like a King but the population remains poor. Philippines WAS the richest country in South East Asia for awhile in the past. Marcos created such a big hole, till today Philippines could not recover.
I have more to say... will continue again when it is possible.
The Monarchy would be "The Last Mohican" for the voices of the Rakyat and overrule the politicians.Politicians are known to be lustful for power and greed for money. We need the Monarchy to balance the power and let the Rakyat voices to be heard. Monarchy represent the voices of Rakyat.
Well, it did not happen in Perak, so the rakyat is upset. Hamba mohon derhaka.
Why Thai loves their King? The King represent the Thai, do you think Thaksin represent Thai people?
Well, did the dictator for 22 years represent what people need?
The Rakyat is overly concern whether budget for Monarchy is controlled or free flowing? We mainly concern about the free flowing like happy hours and there is no cap. This could destroy Malaysia like what Marcos did to his country. He lives like a King but the population remains poor. Philippines WAS the richest country in South East Asia for awhile in the past. Marcos created such a big hole, till today Philippines could not recover.
I have more to say... will continue again when it is possible.
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written by Sabahfan, December 20, 2009 00:10:22
written by Sabahfan, December 20, 2009 00:10:22
Hey, in australia I too saw a bunch of men and women holding placards saying, GO HOME WHITE QUEEN during and official visit of the queen and even the popular princes.
and the australia police just smile at the protesters.. As long as they are not blocking the traffic but just standing by the side of the street, NOTHING happend.
IN Malaysialand.... if you are wearing dark glasses and the sultan passed by with their convoys and bodyguard, the POLICE and their gangsters will scold you, tell you to remove your dark glassses or be arrested.
IN MOOOlazutland, respect is not earned but is DEMANDED BY FORCE FROM ALL OF YOU.
get that??
and the australia police just smile at the protesters.. As long as they are not blocking the traffic but just standing by the side of the street, NOTHING happend.
IN Malaysialand.... if you are wearing dark glasses and the sultan passed by with their convoys and bodyguard, the POLICE and their gangsters will scold you, tell you to remove your dark glassses or be arrested.
IN MOOOlazutland, respect is not earned but is DEMANDED BY FORCE FROM ALL OF YOU.
get that??
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written by Davy McChester, December 19, 2009 23:31:49
written by Davy McChester, December 19, 2009 23:31:49
Thank God the Malays did not buy Mahathir 's scheming,which on the surface may have appeared to be "for the sake of Malaysia". But this man Mahathir had bigger ideas: he loved the ultimate total power to be concentrated in his realm: President of the Republic of Malaysia.
RPK you are right. Let it be a Malay thing as far as the Monarchy is concerned. The scenario you have given is 100 % correct. This would be the thug of war within the Malay community ,each side either trying to win the Monarchy or being critical and vise visa. They will go on using the Monarchy as a punching bag ,sometimes rewarding them .sometimes subtly threatening them. It is therefore best for the Monarchy to be remain neutral rather than take sides. They and their children should do their best not to be dragged into any shady business deals ,in order to avoid being blackmailed by either side. It is a difficult situation but it is also in the interest of the long term survival of the Monarchy
RPK you are right. Let it be a Malay thing as far as the Monarchy is concerned. The scenario you have given is 100 % correct. This would be the thug of war within the Malay community ,each side either trying to win the Monarchy or being critical and vise visa. They will go on using the Monarchy as a punching bag ,sometimes rewarding them .sometimes subtly threatening them. It is therefore best for the Monarchy to be remain neutral rather than take sides. They and their children should do their best not to be dragged into any shady business deals ,in order to avoid being blackmailed by either side. It is a difficult situation but it is also in the interest of the long term survival of the Monarchy
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written by parsona, December 19, 2009 23:31:30
written by parsona, December 19, 2009 23:31:30
This is a much better article, giving real reasons to your assertions. Its true, when we look at the bigger scale of things, the monarchy is just but a small weakness among so many other things thats wrong in the country. We should address so many other things before going for against thats quite dear to many of the Malay rakyat. And your call to let the Malays themselves yearn for a republic is wise, but I'm sure there will still be many non-malays voicing out their opinions regardless. You struck me as rather irrational in your previous arguments regarding the royalty, never giving solid reasons, but this time you articulated it very well. Well done RPK. While I will still feel the monarch is a waste of money, I will just keep it to myself hoping one day the Malays will see the light.
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written by anon, December 19, 2009 22:50:42
written by anon, December 19, 2009 22:50:42
20 years ago majority don't want to talk about abolishing NEP because it isn't time and will upset a lot of people. Today, many more are voicing it out but still perhaps it's not the time as many, though perhaps a smaller proportion than before.
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Dear AsamLaksa,
That my friend is in essence what I believe RPK's article is all about.
"So give time for the rest to happen as well".
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Dear AsamLaksa,
That my friend is in essence what I believe RPK's article is all about.
"So give time for the rest to happen as well".
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written by Super Admin, December 19, 2009 22:46:56
written by Super Admin, December 19, 2009 22:46:56
Dear orangmsia, which 'people'? You? Were you in Bukit Chandan to lie down on the road in front of the Sultan's car that Friday?
RPK
RPK
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written by Super Admin, December 19, 2009 22:45:37
written by Super Admin, December 19, 2009 22:45:37
Dear earthman, I think you have not understood a word I wrote.
RPK
RPK
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written by anon, December 19, 2009 22:31:37
written by anon, December 19, 2009 22:31:37
I was about to write an article on the monarchs - are they an asset or are they redundant? I think I shall shelve it for now - after reading RPK's article. Good article. Very logical and well written.
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written by AsamLaksa, December 19, 2009 22:29:34
written by AsamLaksa, December 19, 2009 22:29:34
RPK, for me it isn't strictly about cost but of use. People will spend money on expensive things and others will talk about them (behind their backs) on whether it's a waste of good money. Most Malaysians would not mind the millions spent on the royal households as long as they feel there is some need or a purpose that relates to them.
So there's a few misbehaving royals, so what? It matters in terms of how it relates to the public. The monarch is the symbol of Malaysia as a sovereign nation. They should show good example so that they could inspire the public, wouldn't you agree?
However the public knows that is not the case. Every negative thing related with the royals further erode public support and cause disillusionment in the royal institution. The English monarchy suffered the same thing with Prince Charles' and Princess Diana's scandals. But they fought back to slowly quieten down the detractors. Thanks also to the Queen which many British do not want to see go even if they are openly anti-monarchy (odd isn't it?).
It's just just a matter of a few royals who screwed up. It's also the many that keep mum. Takut kena tulah dan buang negeri? Silence is seen as assent and that's how the few spoil the whole batch. Not the same with MPs who will scream like there is no tomorrow thus you can differentiate who's who. .
It is not game over for the Malaysian monarchy. If they want to have the adoration and devotion from the rakyat, it's still wide open. Don't just talk nice in speeches and bikin tak serupa cakap. Susah sangat ke nak membela nasib rakyat? Tak ada masa ke?
Even if the royals are not paid, so what? It isn't about money. It's how well they play their roles as symbol of Malaysia. If they behave badly even if they get no public funding, there will be calls to remove their office. Or if they do nothing worthwhile in their office they do not gain public sentiment and will end up like the trophy on the shelf that you won at high a school competition; it collects dust, people are oblivious to it and one day it ends up in the bin.
If you are looking at it mainly as a money issue, then I'm sorry RPK, I think you are being overly simplistic. I think it's goes deeper and many do not even share the same reasons. Money just so happen to be the most convenient reason because everyone can relate with it and it always good rationale to cut wastage. It's the same with the PPSMI, it isn't so much that science and maths has to be taught in English but rather the overall standard of education needs to be improved including English usage. Just that pro-PPSMI makes an easier banner to march under because so many Malaysians can relate to the use of English in a globalised world (but I doubt you will get the same response with teaching of Maths in Mandarin as only a smaller proportion of Malaysians could relate to this).
I would be much more sympathetic if someone were to shout that the monarchy is the symbol to Malaysians that Islam is the state religion and Malay is the majority racial make up. However I am totally opposed to further assumption of a racial and religious supremacy because it's morally wrong in modern standards and not stipulated such in the Merdeka constitution. Regardless of whatever symbol it pertains to, it still comes down to why need the monarchy as well.
There's a big divide between ideas and pragmatism. 20 years ago majority don't want to talk about abolishing NEP because it isn't time and will upset a lot of people. Today, many more are voicing it out but still perhaps it's not the time as many, though perhaps a smaller proportion than before. What matters to me is that the idea should live on because it has merit. So for example in today's Malaysia there really isn't any serious lobby calling for the abolishment of the monarchy. It's not a big issue. We can get to it later but what we shouldn't do it shut off or minds from having ideas. There is no political party be it non-Malay or non-Malay majority party that are calling for the abolishment of the monarchy.
The debate must go on, but any amendments (if any) can wait.
By the way, if there is a better system of government than representative democracy, I'll be the first to sign up to it. Parliament still has uses that people can clearly see. Not the same with the monarchy.
Here we are now, entertain us!
So there's a few misbehaving royals, so what? It matters in terms of how it relates to the public. The monarch is the symbol of Malaysia as a sovereign nation. They should show good example so that they could inspire the public, wouldn't you agree?
However the public knows that is not the case. Every negative thing related with the royals further erode public support and cause disillusionment in the royal institution. The English monarchy suffered the same thing with Prince Charles' and Princess Diana's scandals. But they fought back to slowly quieten down the detractors. Thanks also to the Queen which many British do not want to see go even if they are openly anti-monarchy (odd isn't it?).
It's just just a matter of a few royals who screwed up. It's also the many that keep mum. Takut kena tulah dan buang negeri? Silence is seen as assent and that's how the few spoil the whole batch. Not the same with MPs who will scream like there is no tomorrow thus you can differentiate who's who. .
It is not game over for the Malaysian monarchy. If they want to have the adoration and devotion from the rakyat, it's still wide open. Don't just talk nice in speeches and bikin tak serupa cakap. Susah sangat ke nak membela nasib rakyat? Tak ada masa ke?
Even if the royals are not paid, so what? It isn't about money. It's how well they play their roles as symbol of Malaysia. If they behave badly even if they get no public funding, there will be calls to remove their office. Or if they do nothing worthwhile in their office they do not gain public sentiment and will end up like the trophy on the shelf that you won at high a school competition; it collects dust, people are oblivious to it and one day it ends up in the bin.
If you are looking at it mainly as a money issue, then I'm sorry RPK, I think you are being overly simplistic. I think it's goes deeper and many do not even share the same reasons. Money just so happen to be the most convenient reason because everyone can relate with it and it always good rationale to cut wastage. It's the same with the PPSMI, it isn't so much that science and maths has to be taught in English but rather the overall standard of education needs to be improved including English usage. Just that pro-PPSMI makes an easier banner to march under because so many Malaysians can relate to the use of English in a globalised world (but I doubt you will get the same response with teaching of Maths in Mandarin as only a smaller proportion of Malaysians could relate to this).
I would be much more sympathetic if someone were to shout that the monarchy is the symbol to Malaysians that Islam is the state religion and Malay is the majority racial make up. However I am totally opposed to further assumption of a racial and religious supremacy because it's morally wrong in modern standards and not stipulated such in the Merdeka constitution. Regardless of whatever symbol it pertains to, it still comes down to why need the monarchy as well.
There's a big divide between ideas and pragmatism. 20 years ago majority don't want to talk about abolishing NEP because it isn't time and will upset a lot of people. Today, many more are voicing it out but still perhaps it's not the time as many, though perhaps a smaller proportion than before. What matters to me is that the idea should live on because it has merit. So for example in today's Malaysia there really isn't any serious lobby calling for the abolishment of the monarchy. It's not a big issue. We can get to it later but what we shouldn't do it shut off or minds from having ideas. There is no political party be it non-Malay or non-Malay majority party that are calling for the abolishment of the monarchy.
The debate must go on, but any amendments (if any) can wait.
By the way, if there is a better system of government than representative democracy, I'll be the first to sign up to it. Parliament still has uses that people can clearly see. Not the same with the monarchy.
Here we are now, entertain us!
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written by orangmsia, December 19, 2009 22:23:26
written by orangmsia, December 19, 2009 22:23:26
if the rulers keep annoying the people i believe one day the people will throw them away
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written by Watchdog, December 19, 2009 22:14:12
written by Watchdog, December 19, 2009 22:14:12
Good article. But what was/is Mahathir's grouse when he leveraged on the feudal mindset of the Malays to rule for 22yrs - far more than many of the Rulers in their own states?
He mind have complained - but it was for his own ends and not for the Malays.
He has been the single most potent destroyer of the Malays - culturally, economically, educationally and most important, morally.
And the Malays must remember that they allowed one Indian to this - and he is not Samy Vellu
He mind have complained - but it was for his own ends and not for the Malays.
He has been the single most potent destroyer of the Malays - culturally, economically, educationally and most important, morally.
And the Malays must remember that they allowed one Indian to this - and he is not Samy Vellu
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written by earthman, December 19, 2009 22:12:36
written by earthman, December 19, 2009 22:12:36
There are many ways the ex-rulers could earn a living . With its rich history from the beginning, he could open up his palace as a muzium, a relic as you said, and start collecting fees and selling souveniers to visitors. As it is a tourist destination, the government would support him with an allowance. Yes with all the wealth that he had gained in the past he could start a restuarant , a boutique or start making movies of his past history and glory.. This way he is much much better of then many many Malaysians, including me - just an ordinary citizen.
Its not wether the Malays or Malaysians to end the monarchy , but it should be the reason and let it be damn good reason. Then even the rulers would agreed to relinguish all his special privilege vonluntary and start to support himself by his ingenuinity. If he even cant support himself by his ingenuinity , why are we allowing them to take charge of our nation's business.? Yes we will still recognised them, support them, respect them, but he has to find ways to support himself and family. We cant be paying them as they are not taking care of the business of this nation.
Its not wether the Malays or Malaysians to end the monarchy , but it should be the reason and let it be damn good reason. Then even the rulers would agreed to relinguish all his special privilege vonluntary and start to support himself by his ingenuinity. If he even cant support himself by his ingenuinity , why are we allowing them to take charge of our nation's business.? Yes we will still recognised them, support them, respect them, but he has to find ways to support himself and family. We cant be paying them as they are not taking care of the business of this nation.
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written by Super Admin, December 19, 2009 21:01:34
written by Super Admin, December 19, 2009 21:01:34
Dear Tom n Jerry, so you are saying that because of one bad Monarch we remove the entire institution of the Monarchy? What about the more than 100 bad Parliamentarians that we have? Don't tell me we abolish Parliament as well.
RPK
RPK
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written by Tom n Jerry, December 19, 2009 20:54:41
written by Tom n Jerry, December 19, 2009 20:54:41
I believe if the Istana is above politics then we should be obliged to retain them;but obviously that had not been the case;judging from the Perak power grab,it seems they had shoved their dirty hands into politics;not only that even to the extent of changing the government of the State to their favour,for a certain amount of land and money;this is petrifying & incredible,but true!Surely anyone in his right mind will want to abolish it;insyah Allah they will be obsolete soon;alhamdulilah!
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And do take a deep breath and think on this question:”If the Bumi is so stupid like you claim, then how come the non Bumi kowtows to the Malay? We obey the law, we give them the tax money, the 30% or whatever % they want and agree to the NEP and so on?” Does it appear that they have some power over us for us to accede to this?
And the second question: “And if PR supporters are so militant and chauvinistic now, then what would PR supporters sound like if they win the federal govt?” Scary thought indeed. But go on, do continue to show the chauvinistic and militant side of the other Malaysia.
Then let the silent Malaysia decide at the polls.
PS: Dravida and Bumiputra are Sanskrit terms.