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The law of relativity PDF Print E-mail
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Thursday, 10 January 2008 20:24

Mankind is quick to judge and pass judgement according to their own values and beliefs. They believe that if they believe it is right then it has to be right and if they believe it is wrong then it has to be wrong.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

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As I write this piece I am sitting in Starbucks at the Pantai Medical Centre awaiting the arrival of my fourth grandchild. He is due any time now and probably by the time you read this I will already be the proud grandfather of my third grandson. This is my 35-year old daughter's third child. She had a daughter and a son about a year apart some five to six years ago. My third grandchild was born in Manchester barely a few months ago so this latest one is going to be almost the same age.

A few hours ago I was at another hospital, the Sunway Specialist Centre. My friend, Adlan Benan Omar, the same age as my daughter, is dying and by the time you read this he would probably be dead. Yes, it has been one heck of a day for me rushing from one hospital to see a dying comrade to another to see my daughter of that same age bringing a fragile little being into this world. Such is life. One goes away and another one comes along. It makes you wonder whether everything is worth the effort when at the end of the day all you get is a hole in the ground and you revert to dust and ashes.

Anyway, that is not what I want to discuss today. It's just that I just had to mention them because these two events are going to have a great impact on my life. What I really want to talk about is the issue of right and wrong and our perception of what is right and what is wrong and how right can be wrong and wrong can be right, depending on the time and place and how you were brought up. 

The Minister of Health had to resign because he committed a crime. The Minister of Health had to resign because public opinion says he committed a crime and a Minister is subject to public opinion. The Minister of Health had to resign because he was fixed up so that they could pressure him into resigning. The Minister of Health had to resign to save himself the embarrassment of getting sacked, which would have happened had he not resigned. The Minister of Health had to resign because he was ashamed of what he did. The Minister of Health had to resign because he knows it is impossible for him to continue commanding the respect of those under him and this would make him ineffective as a Minister. The Minister of Health had to resign because he was caught committing a crime and anyone unfortunate enough to get caught has to resign. The Minister of Health had to resign so that he could launch a challenge against the MCA leadership and the only way he could do this would be from the 'outside' because if he remained on the 'inside' he would have to 'toe the line' and 'behave himself'.

Which do you think is the real reason for the Minister of Health resigning? Different people would of course have different views as to why he resigned. And your view would all depend on the values you uphold and your perception of what is right and what is wrong. But right and wrong are subject to time and place. At different times and places, right could be wrong and wrong could be right. This is what I would call the law of relativity. Your judgement about what is right and wrong would be in relation to certain criteria and yardsticks.

For example, I am a poor man. I am poor in relation to the wealth that Bill Gates has. And Malaysia Today is making me poorer by the day. But in relation to a Bangladeshi labourer who washes dishes in a Mamak restaurant for a living, I am a rich man. After all, how many Bangladeshi labourers live in a semi-detached house overlooking a golf club? So perception is therefore everything. And this perception can be influenced or clouded by time and place.

There is another thing that influences how you see things. And this would be your own values and beliefs. If you believe that such a thing is right then it would become right, and vice versa. And this belief, again, would be influenced by time and place.

In the pre-Islamic days, women in the Arabian Peninsular were allowed more than one husband. And daughters would be buried alive because women are 'worthless' compared to men. Women are merely 'property' that can be passed down just like sheep and camels. Nevertheless, in spite of women being regarded as property, they could have more than one husband. In Europe, at around that same time, women would be made to wear chastity belts to ensure that they did not indulge in sex with another man. And halfway across the world the women there, 'second-class' people according to Arab standards, could legally enjoy sex with many men.

The same time but in two different places and what was right for one society was very wrong for another. So who are we to judge what is right and what is wrong? Right and wrong all depends on when that particular thing happened and where it happened.

Right and wrong are very much in the mind. It very much depends on how you have been brought up and educated and what your mind has been conditioned to become. And religion of course plays a very big part in all this.

Let us look at another example. Muslims would be very offended if you invite them for dinner and the food is non-halal or there is pork on the table. Even if there is no pork on the table but the kitchen cooks pork they would still feel offended. You have to ensure that the restaurant is totally pork-free and that the food is halal. It is not enough that pork is not on the table.

But Muslims do not feel offended if they invite vegetarians, Hindus or Buddhists for dinner and there is beef on the table. While Muslims may become very violent if you serve them pork, they are cool about serving vegetarians, Hindus and Buddhists, beef. If you point out to them that according to your religious belief beef is not halal, they would just suggest you lay off the beef. They would not apologise and instruct the waiter to remove the beef. They would then continue consuming beef in front of you. Try eating pork in front of them and see how they would react.

To Muslims, it is wrong to serve pork or even have it on the table or cooked in the kitchen. But it is right to serve beef and have it cooked in the kitchen and even eat it in front of you while you look on totally repulsed by the sight. The Muslim view of right and wrong would be what is right and wrong in Islam. What about what is right and wrong in the other religions? Muslims regard only Islam as the true religion and all other religions as false so they will only take what Islam says is right and wrong as the criteria. The right and wrong for the other religions need to be ignored or else you would be regarded as 'practicing' the values of another religion.

Unfortunately, this value system and the yardstick adopted to gauge right from wrong make Muslims very selfish. They only worry about what is right and wrong from the Islamic perspective while totally ignoring what may be allowed or taboo for the other religions. They would not bother to find out the religious persuasions of their dinner guests or ensure that the right menu is prepared in compliance to that particular religious belief. But they expect you to know that they are Muslims and that Islam forbids pork. And it is your duty to ensure that the restaurant is totally halal and that not only there is no pork cooked or served anywhere in the restaurant but that the beef and other livestock have been properly slaughtered the correct Islamic way.

Mankind is quick to judge and pass judgement according to their own values and beliefs. They believe that if they believe it is right then it has to be right and if they believe it is wrong then it has to be wrong. And they will use the present time and place and according to how they have been brought up and educated into believing as the criteria.

In the days before the French Revolution, cat burning was a popular form of entertainment. Cats would be rounded up and placed in a cage and then lowered slowly into an open fire. The cats would scream with pain, and as they burned the spectators would clap and squeal with delight. Yes, this was a very popular form of entertainment in France in the days before cable TV, the internet, computer games and the like.

There is of course nothing wrong with that form of entertainment. This is not considered cruelty to animals. Yes, there is nothing wrong and it is not cruel against the backdrop of France 500 years ago. Try doing that in Paris today and see what happens. Therefore, what was right 500 years ago in France is wrong today. And 500 years ago even the 'primitive' and 'backward' Malays in this country would not burn alive hundreds of cats for entertainment. It was wrong for Malays to subject cats to what today would be regarded as cruelty even 500 years ago when it was fashionable in France and a very popular form of entertainment. Right and wrong therefore depends on who you are, where you are, and at what point of time or when you are considering all this.

Now let us look at religion. Every religion, not only Islam, says it is right and that all the other religions are wrong. But which one is the really right religion? Do you know? Of course you do know. And your answer would be: the right religion is the religion you were born into and which you were brought up in and taught to believe in. All the others are wrong.

But how can you be sure of this? Is it because you have been brainwashed and indoctrinated so? Okay, what if you were born into a Muslim family instead of a Christian family? Would you still say that Jesus was the last Prophet and that Muhammad was a fake? You were taught your entire life that Islam is the true religion and all other religions are false. Your entire family is Muslim and you have been taught to believe that if you do not believe in Islam you will be sent to hell where you will remain forever. How would you not believe this is so?

Right and wrong all depend on how you were born. If you were born in Sweden to a Christian family then your beliefs would be moulded along that society's value system. And if you were born in Saudi Arabia to a Wahabbi family then your beliefs would be moulded along that society's value system. In both situations you would believe you are right. And in both situations you could actually be wrong.

How could both be right? One has to be right and the other wrong. But the right and wrong would all depend on which family you were born into. So right could be wrong and wrong could be right according to who you are in terms of time, race and religious beliefs. Therefore, since right and wrong are not static but would change according to which family you were born into and at which point of time, then there cannot be any right and wrong. Right and wrong do not exist. Right and wrong are merely how you perceive things and perceptions -- since they are influenced by time, place, upbringing, etc. -- are not real.

But mankind will not accept this. No one would declare that the religion they believe in is wrong while the religion they do not believe in is right. Right is always what you believe in and wrong would be all which is opposed to what you believe in. That is the value system you will uphold.

But how do you even know in the first place that there is such a thing called religion and that it came from God? You don't. You only have faith. And you will allow your faith to decide your beliefs. This is what you have been taught and what those who have taught you have been taught before that. So it is a hand-me-down 'knowledge' that cannot be proven but must be believed only because those before you have believed the same.

If I tell you that God listens to my prayers every night you would believe this because you believe the same thing. In fact, billions of people believe this same thing so as long as this belief is shared by the majority then it must be right. But if I tell you that God talks to me through my notebook computer and He leaves me messages on my word processor you would not believe me mainly because no one else believes the same thing. Your beliefs and your perception of right and wrong therefore is based on majority view. As long as the majority thinks the same then this is correct. It is wrong only when it goes against the majority view. Cat burning, if made into an international event, would be right only if many think so, as was so in France 500 years ago. Would you think that boxing is an acceptable sport if 99% of the world condemned it? If boxing is acceptable why not duels with pistols?

You may think this statement is ridiculous. Well, it would not be considered ridiculous during the time of the Romans when gladiators battled to the death in the Coliseum. It may be wrong today but it was very right then. And as recent as 150 years ago witches were burned alive at the stake in 'modern' Europe and America. An estimated 20,000-50,000 witches were burned alive over 300 years or so and it was very much right then and sanctioned, in fact encouraged, by the church. It is only wrong to burn witches today.

So right is wrong and wrong is right depending on who you are, where you were born, and when you were born. Your values are your values and it does not mean that they are right values. It just means that they are your perception of what are right values. So keep your values to yourself. Do not impose your values on me. And 200 years ago the Minister of Health would be allowed hundreds of mistresses in keeping with his status as a Minister of the Ruler. And he would not have to resign. But for plotting the downfall of his boss he would not just be fixed up and forced to resign but his head would be spiked on a stake outside the city gates.

Comments (142)Add Comment
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written by Littlebird, January 10, 2008 20:59:21
RPK wrote: "And Malaysia Today is making me poorer by the day".

I notice you are now allowing advertisement on your webpage which you were reluctant to do before. I guess everything got a price. (Just an observation - not making a judgment..cheers!!)
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written by malsia1206, January 10, 2008 21:07:49

1. The ruling Government believes the NEP is right. The non-bumis believe it is wrong to have this programme continuing indiscrimately for so long.
2. The Government believes the Lawyer's march, Bersih and Hindraf are wrong in having done what they did. These lawyers, marchers all believe they have a justified cause to pursue in the manner they did. And everyone knows now they got chemical-laced water cannons and tear gas in response.
3. The Government tends to believ every critic is from the Opposition. We all know we have to criticise for the good and well-being of the country and rakyat.
4. What is right and wrong can be relative, that much I can agree. But there is ONE BIG INDISPUTABLE FACT that the rakyat knows is wrong - that our PM is sleeping for the past 4 years, which we know he shouldn't. But the goons on empat tingkat and many in UMNO thinks it's right for this PM to sleep long, simply because they can all show their dirty hidden hands at work. Not many could do that during the former PM's time.
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written by ben932, January 10, 2008 21:11:15
The Minister of Health had to resign because he committed a crime


I don't think so, the Minister of Health did not commit a crime.
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written by Vineeth Menon, January 10, 2008 21:19:37
Congratulations on your new grandchild and best wishes to you and your family !
It was a Well timed article..excellent..
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written by Arum, January 10, 2008 21:20:42
A nice piece of view ,much needed in the world of religion fanatism.Your view tally with universalism.
If all could think like you then we are better humans
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written by Wisdom above, January 10, 2008 21:28:57
Dear RPK ,

You are full of knowledge.
A very detailed exposition of "values and beliefs", "brainwashed and indoctrinated".

1) ... So right could be wrong and wrong could be right according to who you are in terms of time, race and religious beliefs. Therefore, since right and wrong are not static but would change according to which family you were born into and at which point of time, then there cannot be any right and wrong. Right and wrong do not exist. Right and wrong are merely how you perceive things and perceptions -- since they are influenced by time, place, upbringing, etc. -- are not real.

2)... Your beliefs and your perception of right and wrong therefore is based on majority view. As long as the majority thinks the same then this is correct. It is wrong only when it goes against the majority view.

3)... So right is wrong and wrong is right depending on who you are, where you were born, and when you were born. Your values are your values and it does not mean that they are right values. It just means that they are your perception of what are right values. So keep your values to yourself. Do not impose your values on me.

I hope all world ' readers ' understand and scrutinized your insights in positive cognitive logical approach.

Leaders all over, will reject, in their fullest negative illogical terms.

Remember, Events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.
So far yours is quite logical.
.....

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written by alibaba anjing, January 10, 2008 21:30:24
Every religion teaches us the good values. In different times and spaces, people with good moral will always pass the same judgement and share the good value regardless of religion identity and culture. The right is always right and the wrong is always wrong. In the eye of every dying man, they will always uphold the good values. This is because there is no time for them to repent for their sin.
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written by Zym Zym, January 10, 2008 21:37:01
Petra wrote:

"But if I tell you that God talks to me through my notebook computer and He leaves me messages on my word processor you would not believe me ..."

If God really exists, it's not improbable. I'll just leave my notebook on, just in case. smilies/wink.gif
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written by tom73my, January 10, 2008 21:39:44
RPK, I share your thought. If only people can believe less, and understand more. For me it's more like a 'form' to shout 'I believe in God', I believe in this and that. It's much more important to understand, to undertand what religions are trying to teach us, to understand why we ought to follow this and that. If it doesn't make sense, why do it. Peace on earth!
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written by SikhWarrior83, January 10, 2008 21:40:34
RPK wrote:'Every religion, not only Islam, says it is right and that all the other religions are wrong.'
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Sir,not 'every' religion professes that the other religions are wrong and its own is right..on behalf of the Sikhs..i would say that Sikhism practices religious tolerance and does not believe in condemning or undermining another religion..hopefully i did not step into your shoe here!
I thank you for once again another Brilliant article..and i would like to congratulate you on your new grandchild..God Bless
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written by Motherchell, January 10, 2008 21:51:27
Petra, firstly I want to wish you and your family the best with life's gifts. Blessings to your grandchildren ,they will carry your genes in full measure, and to your friend OMAR I wish him, blessings for a miracle and goodness in every good journey he seeks.

We in Malaysia need tonnes of Leaders like you--- your ethical reasoning is so very true to every word of it. I agree in total unison. Its education thats the prime antidote to all the ills that we see day to day. With the Education , a proper one! --- le*** one to reason and do the right thing in all essence of the space between 2 events.

Even making more money, one is let to a question as " How much is enough ?" It le*** to questioning ones own guilt when something is wrong and we correct it at the speed of light.

I'm with you on this pete!
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written by AsamLaksa, January 10, 2008 22:14:50
RPK, congratulations on the expansion of your clan and best wishes for many more descendents.

On the article I have to disagree with the direction. What you wrote is logically correct but is too simplistic a view for the globalised times we live in. Also smells too much of disillusionment with society.

We cannot compare practices in the past with the current times. Beliefs in the past were contained in their own communities where the majority's beliefs prevail. Minorities were not well regarded. In the world now, different beliefs mingle under the sun and it is inevitable that they will clash. It is inevitable that people will impose their beliefs onto others be it religion, politics, business, academics, etc.. The solution should not be of 'You don't impose on me and I don't impose on you'.

If you want to argue that non-imposition of beliefs is the way forwards then democracy would have to be one of it's first casualties where the will of the majority is imposed on the minority.

There is also an irony to those who consider themselves tolerant such as those who tolerate dissenting opinions but do not would they tolerate differing values imposed on themselves. This imposes certain restriction or standards of tolerance. Tolerance is one of the main ingredient in allowing minorities to be safely heard.

The real question is not about what the differences are but how we could work together. Notice I do not use 'live together' because living together also include mere subsisting. What is missing is openness, sensitivity, tolerance, patience and a whole bunch of other virtues that promote harmony.

I have Malay friends who have no qualms sitting at a table where pork is served as long as they are not joining the meal and I know of Malays who would not ever accept dinner invitation to non-Muslim houses (there goes the tradition of visiting other races' homes for meals during their festivities).

I have had enough of Chinese and Christians trying to impose their own values on me as much as Muslims yet I still remain friends with them because we can come to an understanding and not get offended easily.

In this era we should celebrate our differing identities, not trying to create a single value or belief system and work together to foster better ties. Whenever I have an argument I always start out with the premise that right or wrong is secondary, it's the freedom, ability and skills in arguments that's the most important.
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written by Umar Rentaka, January 10, 2008 22:47:18
Dear YM RPK,
you wrote,
Every religion, not only Islam, says it is right and that all the other religions are wrong.

Did you make a study of Bhagavad Gita before coming to this conclusion? You can do better than making this uninformed statement!
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written by GordonLim, January 10, 2008 22:49:36
PKR, you pusing pusing pusing pusing... left right up down. Conclusion is just the same. There are no right or wrong. Hahahhahahahhahaha.
Anyway, that makes it quite interesting to read anyway.
I think Atheist sometimes deserves some credits too. You made a point that everyone has a religion.
What about those believe in the 'forces' of Jedism?
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written by indianputra, January 10, 2008 22:52:18
RPK, enough lah bashing religious beliefs. What YOU and I should be concentrating now is the GE which is around the corner. You can talk about religion, it's misdeeds, it's wrong interpretation until cows come home and it is not going to make any difference to the holier than thou religious fanatics.

You should now concentrate on the coming General Election. Create a brain wash among the bloggers in here who will do the same to others to have an end result that we refuse BN a 2/3 majority in the next GE.

Be PRODUCTIVE in your articles.
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written by indianputra, January 10, 2008 22:53:01
Oh by the way, CONGRATULATIONS!
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written by Angela Ooi, January 10, 2008 22:54:14
Congratulations dear Raja Petra and Marina on the arrival of your latest g'child. i pray mother and child are fine.
RPK, I always enjoy and look forward to your articles..intelligent, forthright, witty, no bullshitting and much more. I wish you would allow those of us who want to help lessen your financial burden do so.Please reconsider.
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written by Roy, January 10, 2008 22:54:29
YM RPK,

Congrats!

I do agree that right or wrong is purely a matter of perception and opinion. However,in essence, right and wrong is something that has been "fixed" by the Creator. Even without reference to religion, killing peple or animal is certainly wrong. So does stealing. Raping. Kidnapping. And few thousands of other acts too. No person wih right mind, will say those acts are just right - no matter what their belief is or are, even if they don't belief in anything at all.

But mankind is pre-conditioned with perception, so much so they can't differentiate the right from wrong. If they see someone goes to mosque everyday, that person is a good. Even he quietly drinks and having a wild party somewhere that is not known to anyone, he is still good. Even he sleeps while administering his subjects, he is still good. Even he flirts with someone wife, he is still good. Even he lied about his marriage, he is still good. If they see someone comes back late at night and drunk, that person will be forever bad - no matter what amount of good deeds he does. That's mankind.

It is clear to me now managing perception is far more important than anything else. Even if you are so corrupt, but once seen as Mr. Clean Guy, you'll have the world's wealth with you, no matter how you get them.

Afterall, our ancestors had put into us, seeing is believing. So it is.



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written by confuseus, January 10, 2008 23:04:58
Dear Pet,
Congratulations for being a fourth time Datuk, you earned that Datukship more than majority of the cheap Datuks everywhere.
Way to go, Chua Soi Lek. www.citizenthink.com readers say you are a very professional minister. You may have soft heart for beautiful women but that was a wicked excuse to set you up.
Now that you are out of the corrupted system, it is time for you to whack the MCA and BN leaderships. I, myself, have been out of MAS for 16 months now and I think it is time to expose the INCOMPETENT management.
Instead of confronting and fixing the problems, “the gang” are dishing more lies, deceits and fabrications as per www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/831/36/

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written by Raja Petra, January 10, 2008 23:05:29
Dear indianputra, please go to The Corridors of Power. And religion will very much determine whether DAP supporters vote PAS and PAS supporters vote DAP. SO DON'T KNOCK IT!

Dear SikhWarrior83, the very fact that your religion practices 'tolerance' means that something is wrong. Tolerance is what I extend to my neighbour's ten dogs that shit on my lawn. I don't want you to 'tolerate' my religion. That, my dear Sikh, is what is wrong. Get it?
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written by Mr Smith, January 10, 2008 23:16:50
Well I am one who do not believe that any religion is wrong. I just look at the person and how he le*** his life. What he eats, and how he fasts and how many times he prays is totally irrelevant.
My criteria is just this:
Does he love God with his mind, body and soul and loves his neighbour as himself? Every religion, minus all the trappings, has only this one Law.
This is the man Allah. who is also my God, loves.
Those who pray like mad, fast like crazy and go for pilgrimage 10 times in his life time but carries millions of ringgit of corruption money in his suitcase and screws people's wives or snatch away dead bodies, or arrest people under ISA, or prevent others from using "Allah" in their prayers will burn in hell.
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written by Wudan, January 11, 2008 00:00:08
The holier than thou public are of the opinion that The Minister of Health had to resign because public opinion says he committed a crime and a Minister is subject to public opinion. The Minister of Health enemy thought, The Minister of Health had to resign because he knows it is impossible for him to continue commanding the respect of those under him and this would make him ineffective as a Minister.

In the history of Malaysia, no Minister had ever resign because he was caught committing a crime and not anyone unfortunate enough to get caught has to resign.
However, neither The Minister of Health had to resign because he committed a crime nor
The Minister of Health had to resign because he was ashamed of what he did.

The Minister of Health had to resign because he was fixed up so that they could pressure him into resigning. Initially, The Minister of Health was defiant and did not want to resign. However, on the next day, The Minister of Health had to resign to save himself the embarrassment of getting sacked, which would have happened had he not resigned.

Since The Minister of Health had now resigned he would try to launch a challenge against the MCA leadership and the only way he could do this would be from the 'outside' because one eat, drink and be merry fella on the 'inside’ that would not have to 'toe the line' and 'behave himself' is questioning the MCA leadership on their handling of The Minister of Health case of indiscretion and issues.
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written by Century Patriot, January 11, 2008 00:09:47
My heartiest congratulation to you, YM RPK and family on the arrival of your fourth grandchild. There is no wrong in this case except RIGHT, RIGHT!!!

Right become wrong and wrong become right, is a very true statement ONLY when it pertains to PERCEPTION on a SUBJECTIVE and INTANGIBLE matter otherwise democracy has to come into play. Right?

Heartiest congratulation on a very enlightening article.
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written by jack little, January 11, 2008 00:34:59
God is Love.
Love is God.

Anbe Sivam....

Religion and God is man-made. Just a perception. After all who has really saw God. I know many of you wont agree with me... But that's the truth. And don't give lecture about how we can't see air or sound or whatever, and we can only feel it i.e. feel God. If we feel God, then what's the assurance that that feeling is God. Maybe it's just a trick made by the hormones in our body.... hahahaha.....

All we need is Love.
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written by Jhimsi, January 11, 2008 00:55:07
Dear RPK,

Well observed and written. You might have been a bit harsh on SikhWarrior83, but I totally agree with you about toleration. 'Toleration' basically means testing your patience.

What the world and society really need is to take toleration a step further, that is , Unconditional Acceptance. Especially in a country and society like Malaysia, we all need to reciprocate unconditional acceptance of each other irregardless of race and religion. This is where REAL Humility comes in.

But I guess, there's very little REAL Humility going around, whether in this country or in the world.

Mankind's greatest enemy is HIMSELF (I, Me, Myself).
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written by mendela, January 11, 2008 01:02:15
Talking about religion, I guess Muslims are spending too much of their precious time on praying.
Muslims should encourage more time to be spent on study, research and other more productive activities.
I think 5 times a day of praying is excessive.
Among all major religions in the world, Muslims probably pray the most in a day!
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written by GermanMachine, January 11, 2008 01:36:16
Simple article, simple English and yet told what I've been trying to express for nearly half a century living in this country. Damn RPK, I can never put it any better. Give my love to your grandchild and bless your daughter for the gift from Allah. The gomen can ban it, but it makes no different to me.
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written by Baronshah, January 11, 2008 01:52:23
Dear Pete,
Congratulations on the arrival of your new grandchild and all the best to you and your family !.
To your friend Omar I hope he would recover with the blessings of Almighty.

Thank you for a beautifully written article which is thought provoking.

Take care Pete.
God bless.
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written by Msia Negarakuku, January 11, 2008 06:07:29
YM RPK,

heartiest congratulation on receiving your grandchild and hope you will see many more in the future smilies/grin.gif

Clap clap...a very good article again from you.

I wish the Umno Ministers are brilliant as you but unfortunately they are both stupid and arrogant?


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written by NSTPravda, January 11, 2008 06:50:21
Trust RPK to invoke the law of relativity
To argue for some semblance of boleh sanity
Our beloved PM is the best relative that money can buy
How else could Oxfart Khairy be such a rich powerful guy

Everything in Dollar’s government is related to relativity
Truths are stretched and corruption is practiced with impunity
For most times PM is relatively asleep
To the woes of rakyat he emits nary a beep

When his own welfare and financial stash are at stake
We can count on him to be vigilant and appear relatively awake
We are still relatively well of compared to Sudan and Zimbabwe
Relatively, we have to agree that we are absolute semua-nya OK!
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written by surgeffect, January 11, 2008 07:15:34
To SikhWarrior83

Well.. All religions practice tolerance of other religions. Why? So as to avoid a massive blood-letting session. Yeah... tolerate.. of course. But agree? I don't think so. I think that's what RPK is trying to say.

So the problem lies within the 'tolerance' issue itself when tolerance does not mean similar respect. Every religion has its own good points. So that is what we should respect universally, but what religion you yourself choose, that is between you and the Almighty.

Mutual and similar respect is the key.. Not 'tolerance' which in fact is an ugly word. It's more of a word that a very familiar government we know always professes, but still would not allow a statue to be built... smilies/wink.gif

Yo RPK.. my condolences and congratulations to you.
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written by Terminator, January 11, 2008 08:43:05
All I can say is that if all muslims were as educated and open-minded like RPK, then this country will be a better place. It is very important to know that very often the glass is half full as well as half empty. Everything may be relative NOW but ... time will tell if it has been CONTEXTUALLY correct or not. This I believe is called progression of the humankind. The ultimate question for BN is that ... other than its decisions being 'considered wrong', is it a progressive decision! Remember, TDM made a lot of 'percieved bad decisions' but now I believe we all know where those decisions stand !!!! What decisions has AAB made ... right or wrong ... for future reflections !!!???
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written by astina, January 11, 2008 09:49:41
YMRPK..
Congrates on the birth of ur grandchild and my deepest regter on ur comrade ..
I must say the following line was very articulate ...
"Right and wrong do not exist. Right and wrong are merely how you perceive things and perceptions -- since they are influenced by time, place, upbringing, etc. -- are not real."


The operative word was "perception"..how true ..

Similiar views could be found at www.osho.com




Cheers
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written by alan cheong, January 11, 2008 09:51:34
Right and Wrong - God has imbued every individual, ie His creation, with a conscience. And every one should refer to God's benchmark for Right and Wrong - no need to deviate and ask which god or whose god. GOD is GOD.

Relative perception is just that: relative perception, and individual values, desires.

As for the food situation, it has nothing to do with right or wrong - muslims are generally just arrogant, period. In varying degrees, nonetheless, it boils down to plain old, simple arrogance. Nothing more nothing less.
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written by duncan, January 11, 2008 10:10:29
written by ben932, January 10, 2008 | 21:11:15

The Minister of Health had to resign because he committed a crime


I don't think so, the Minister of Health did not commit a crime.

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Of course he committed a crime! Thats indisputable...when he engaged in oral sex which apparently is unlawful...currently. Whether it is acceptable by society is another issue... coz probably 80 -90% engages in it as well... Like I said its neither here nor there. What is clear is a crime had been committed under Malaysia's cuurent Penal Code, and the best part is the AG has used his doubtful powers of discreation not to proceed to prosecute the Minister. That clearly shows biasness... as usual
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written by mei yen, January 11, 2008 10:17:14
The ex-minister of health did not commit a crime. He committed adultery, which in essence should have been a private matter between him, his family and his God. But because he was video-taped, it became an international "affair", and an international embarrassment not only to his family but to the Malaysian government too.


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written by kenny, January 11, 2008 10:19:42
Comments in RPK's articles should involve more politics. Right or wrong? smilies/smiley.gif


UMNO beats "right could be wrong and wrong could be right at different time and place" hands down.
They know things have gone wrong all over the place but insist they are right all the time. We should take them back 500 years and turn them into cats and gladiators.
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written by ibabonma, January 11, 2008 10:38:23
jack little, if you can see God, you will never believe in God because you will treat God just as if you are treating our Agong. God is the creator and being a creator, in Him, God cannot be the same of or aliking anything found in the universe – human, animals, virus, germs, mountain, trees, moon, sun or star, storm, hurricane, lightning etc.

You just cannot imagine or find any anything similar to God …. if there is, it surely is not God the Creator. How can I, the Almighty, create something that looks like me (human) and to claim sovereignty over another human?
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written by ibabonma, January 11, 2008 10:45:51
Further still, in the Al-Quran, God said it out in Surah Al-Ikhlas 1- 4 (The Purity of Faith)

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Say: He is God, the One and Only. God, the Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto him.
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2008 11:14:17
Dear ibabonma, what has all that got to do with what we are discussing?
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written by densemy, January 11, 2008 11:18:23
... and perhaps that's the problem with religions... Everything has to be either wrong or right. After all you cant believe in MAYBES

There is a lot of scope in this world for the use of acceptable and tolerable. And that would mean we could be a whole lot less judgemental in our day to day dealings
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written by Jay Krish, January 11, 2008 11:24:48
Perception of right and wrong is ruled by the views of the majority or in the majority you belong to. Don't question, just swallow them whole and have 'faith' you will be rewarded in the end. Sounds like BN election manifesto... damn!

Excellent piece Sir RPK!
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written by joeawk, January 11, 2008 11:39:30
As is said, many a times, right or wrong can be subjective. All religions show the way to the Supreme God of all existence. All is right and if one must propagate one's religion, just go ahead but just do not impose on another.

In a multi religious environment, do not harp on the input of religious values in govt administration, which does not mean that you should not inculcate religious values in the govt administration but those that which are universal or commonly agreeable.

There is no need to mention Islam this and Islam that because if one were to be truthful to one's own conscience, there in not a religion that expound absolute truth. Islam? hahaha-war religion.

Men evolve over time and young and old souls do not see things the same way. Those who wear the robes may not be more evolved than the the guy who scavenges in the dump. Each and everyone who walks the earth is here for differing reasons. There is certainly much to learn on the journey of evolution.

All men aspires to be good and there is no need to aspire for superiority when humility will better serve the individual.

Just stop Islam this and Islam that and the world will be a far better place, otherwise be opened to scrutiny and criticism.
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written by liquidvol, January 11, 2008 11:42:34
right or wrong, good or bad, angel or demon, etc... I guess we were all born with one thing.. The right to bloody CHOOSE.. everthing else after, is just : BLOODY PERCEPTION..
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written by sampalee, January 11, 2008 12:28:59
When one recognises the contaries and relativities in this classroom of Tuhan,one is ready to step beyond into the Kingdom of God.The return to Oneness[Tawhid].As Shakespeare similarly qouted 'there is no good or bad,thinking maketh so'The very believe of seperation on Tuhan cosmic screen is the Ignorence for our satanic[disciminating]mind to run wild.All religions teaches us to awake from the differences and relativity on the giant movie screen[3D]and awake to the oneness of the projecting light[Al Nur],before its interception by the karmic flim[Scipt of Allah and do not ever doubt for a moment the truth INSHAALLAH as mouthed by many,but rarely understood].The scenes on the movie comes and go,but the screen and light remain,The light or God essense is the substratum of every creation in this universe.No light,no movie.

When one have the realisation it is our thinking mind that create the dichotomy,then the solution simply lies within each of us and not outthere trying to change the arising of the world to fit our thinking.Just take care of our mind and realise the Truth of non-duality{With no opposites,relativity cannot exist]
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written by obheng, January 11, 2008 13:06:59
Dear RPK,
Christians don't believe that Jesus was the last prophet; they believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
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written by obheng, January 11, 2008 13:11:47
But of course, the Christians know that the Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and think that the Christians have got it all wrong, but the Christians don't have a problem with that. They believe that it is called 'faith' as you have mentioned. There is no need to be violent about our faith - the net result can only be made known in the afterlife.
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written by Raufgar, January 11, 2008 13:20:33
Congratulations RPK on your new addition to your family, and my condolences to the passing of your friend. May his journey onwards be fulfilling and blissful, and the journey of your grandson be blessed, as he is blessed to have someone like you as a grandfather.

Tolerance, as you say, is merely the repressing of the urge to throttle the person who dumps garbage on your front lawn. I find that even the word "tolerance" can be interpreted differently from person to person.

For some, "tolerance" is "acceptance"; where a person accepts that that person will still continue to dump garbage on your front lawn regardless of how you feel about his heritage, and makes an attempt at levity or some degree of friendliness towards said person, perhaps in an attempt to direct his garbage dumping to your garbage bin.

Others, meanwhile, have a clear-cut definition of both "tolerance" and "acceptance", and understand that while you can "tolerate" said person dumping on your nice garden, you can't "accept" that he is dumping his garbage on top of your prized long beans that you were planning to have for dinner.

And of course you have others who tend towards the original explanation above, with various degrees of intensity and expression of said "tolerance".

I leave it to the readers of this fine blog to decide which explanation is closest to their idea of tolerance and acceptance.

....oh, and yes, our preceptions are mostly based on the most popular thinking at the time (kill dumping person, don't kill dumping person, admit person to a mad house, etc.), but that doesn't stop a growing majority from doing the opposite "just cuz I can". My 2 cents.
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written by tukjanggut, January 11, 2008 13:20:41
Are you trying to imply that in reality there is no right and wrong? I am very much agree with you what is right or wrong are relative, it changes according to time and places as you very well illustrated. But this right or wrong that you are talking are values that man himself ascertain base on their experiences, numbers, time and surrounding, and as these change, man will change the values of what is right and wrong.(i.e. wrong becomes right and vice versa).The problem that mankind is facing today, war, religious dispute, power struggle, racism and... derived because man view what is right or wrong base on his perspective according to time, places, surrounding, politics and authority. That is why it very is very imperative that we must have an absolute truth in telling us what is right or wrong that doesn’t change in what so ever circumstances. And this can only comes through true religion.
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written by Visinic, January 11, 2008 13:35:15
congrats on the newborn grandchild.....
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written by antiilluminati, January 11, 2008 14:04:20
Dear RPK,
Congrats to u and family. It is great to see good genes in continuity.

Yet there goes another great article by RPK. Much insights. Thanks.

Here's a story that impart great insights as well to share with fellow MT readers..

A warrior was out for a stroll one sunny day. As he made his way through the woods, he saw another warrior also taking a walk. They greeted one another in friendly fashion.
Then, a glint of reflected light caught their eyes. They saw two shields lying on the ground not too far away. One was silver and the other was gold. Even from a distance they could tell that the shields were of extremely high quality.
"What a find!" the first warrior exclaimed. "I shall take the golden shield. You can have the silver." He started toward them.
"Nay, I saw them first. The golden shield belongs to me. I can grant you the silver shield." The second warrior walked faster toward the shields, and the first warrior picked up speed to match.
"Thank you for your generosity, but it is not necessary. I voiced my claim before you did, thus the golden shield is mine by right. You should be glad I am willing to let you have the silver." They both began jogging.
"Your claim does not matter, for I outrank you. Therefore it shall be as I command: Gold for me, silver for you." It became a race. Both men ran full-tilt toward the shields.
"Your rank means nothing, for we serve different lords. These woods belong to my lord. I shall retrieve the golden shield for him; the silver shield is a fitting tribute for your lord." It was becoming apparent that they were well matched in speed. Neither would get to the shields before the other.
"These woods belong to no one. I am the superior swordsman and I say the golden shield is mine. If you wish to contest my claim, you must face my sword." The warrior drew his weapon, and his opponent did likewise.
A fierce battle ensued. The two warriors discovered that they were also well matched in swordsmanship. Neither could gain the upper hand over the other. It became a contest of endurance – the first to tire and falter would lose the fight, and thus the golden shield.
Unfortunately, the two warriors were also well matched in stamina. After fighting for more than an hour, both became equally exhausted. Still they persisted, until neither one could remain standing any longer. Both collapsed to the ground at the same time, panting and gasping for breath, but still eyeing each other warily.
They looked at the cause of their conflict. From this lower perspective, they could see the shields edgewise. The golden shield looked like it had a silver side underneath, and the silver shield...
"Are you thinking what I'm thinking?" One of the warriors asked the other.
"We should take a closer look."
"No tricks."
"Agreed."
In unison, each warrior reached out with his sword to flip a shield over. It was as they suspected: The two shields were identical – gold on one side and silver on the other!
The warriors came to the realization that their battle was meaningless. All along, the shields were the same, and each of the them could take one and be perfectly satisfied. All that effort and strife, all the verbal jousting and physical combat, was for nothing.
Aren't we just like the warriors sometimes? We struggle against other people, trying to get ahead or gain an advantage, but for what? When we are exhausted and stressed out by all the contention, conflict and competition, will we also find that the objective we strive for is completely meaningless?
Another lesson from this tale is that hostility and ill will often come about when we can only see one side of an issue. Discord rears its ugly head when both sides of a dispute are totally convinced of their own righteousness. Each side stubbornly clings to its own perspective while refusing to – or perhaps unable to – see the other side.
What would happen if we can see more than just our side? By being able to perceive how others look at the same thing, we can understand how the conflict began in the first place. This better understanding le*** to a better solution – most likely one that does not require contention or violence! And that, in turn, le*** to greater peace and harmony.
Just like the warriors, they will come to the realization that struggles and strife are the opposite and completely unnecessary!
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written by rayfire, January 11, 2008 14:13:12
smilies/grin.gif Congrats RPK, hope the mother and child are doing well.
Anyway, I for once believe that if God does exist, he/she should be just one but appears if need to in many forms of shapes if need to, in order to make people realise, that he/she is there all along.
As for the role religion plays, it should enrich our lives NOT restrict it in any way. In order to achieve this , our practice should take moderate and practical approach as most of the practices , has you have highlighted in your article as well, was right or seemed right at the time it was conceived. Everything is up to interpretation and appreciation of what was adviced in the religious doctrine, not something that should be taken literally. If you ask me, as long your religious practice does not get in the way of your freedom and enriches you spiritually then go ahead. But don't say therefore that ONLY your religion is right and everything else is WRONG.
Every individual has different capabilities and ways of perceiving things. So God may come in many forms (or formless for that matter) to guide you into realising your full potential as a person.
So my plea is , see pass the doctrines and books and see around you, what is practical and ensures you have peace of mind at the end , and for your safety sake, ensure your practice doesn't get in way of other's freedom. I for once have stopped frequenting temples coz they emphasize on rituals rather than what should be the spiritual benefit, on top of it we have this so called 'committee' that decides what is right or wrong according to their perception. That doesn't make me less religious is any way. I have my own ways and so far, it works fine. I hope you find a way that best suits you and GOD willing you become enlightened in your chosen way. smilies/wink.gif
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written by teo siew chin, January 11, 2008 14:42:25
Dear YM Raja Petra

Congrats on your new grandchild and sorry about your pal.

I'd think you are far richer than Gates if you take into account the buckets and buckets of love and kisses you're gonna get from your grand-kids. or even the Bangladeshi labourers, if you so choose. it's all relative, rite?

And just to get the bucket going, here's some for you smilies/kiss.gif smilies/kiss.gif smilies/kiss.gif smilies/kiss.gif smilies/kiss.gif
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written by Panca Indera, January 11, 2008 15:27:34
Dear RPK
Congrats To the Mum for all the hard labour and to you for 4X grandpa smilies/grin.gif
There are some differences of opinion here.
As to your statesments,
"Right and wrong are not static but would change according to which family you were born into and at which point of time, then there cannot be any right and wrong."
" Right and wrong do not exist. Right and wrong are merely how you perceive things and perceptions -- since they are influenced by time, place, upbringing, etc. -- are not real."


There are two types of truths in the world out there

Relative Truth based on perception that can change with time, place and senses (panca Indera ha ha).

Absolute Truth - Inflexible Reality, defined as inflexible reality: fixed, invariable, unalterable facts. For example, it is a fixed, invariable, unalterable fact that there are absolutely no square circles and there are absolutely no round squares.

Since Rights and Wrongs are conclusion derived from perceptions of the Human values/beliefs then it is imperative that the values and beliefs are based on Absolute Truths and not Relative truths. This will guarantee the true values are clear from distortion and corruption

As regard to"But how do you even know in the first place that there is such a thing called religion and that it came from God? You don't. You only have faith."

You are kidding me Right?
ISLAM forbids dogmatic beliefs and Allah encourage man to look around and use his intelligence to understand and comprehend His Creation.
2.164] Most surely in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships that run in the sea with that which profits men, and the water that Allah sends down from the cloud, then gives life with it to the earth after its death and spre*** in it all (kinds of) animals, and the changing of the winds and the clouds made subservient between the heaven and the earth, there are signs for a people who understand.

But which one is the really right religion?
The Religions from Allah are one, but tailored to suit the development of mankind throughout his social, moral, mental and spiritual development over the millenniums cumulating in the final religion of Islam sealed by the Last prophet Muhammad PBUH.
3.19] Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
[3.85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

But men chose to disobey Allah Religion concocted their own interpretation or meaning for financial and political gains

Note : Try reading the Quran again and substitute the word ISLAM to SURRENDER(total unconditional surrender) and see if you get adifferent picture.
Salam
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2008 15:35:08
Tukjanggut said: And this can only comes through true religion.

Dear Tukjanggut, 'true religion' to one person is bullshit to another. I am sure you will not accept Sky Kingdoms, suicide cults, Manson's cult, Reverend Jones' cult, etc. as 'true religions'. Well, their followers do and they perceive your religion as false. So true and false are in the eyes of the beholder.
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written by tuan tanah kedaung, January 11, 2008 15:45:03
Bang R. Petra, tahniah atas kelahiran cucunda yang ke-4.

I think Raja Petra's grudge on THIS particular issue is still quite hot. I'd rather read his old articles than reading the last 3 or 4 on the religion issues he was grumbling about. We are far from being perfect, religious or non-religious. Not all people are like you Raja Petra, tolerable and moderate for you have an advantage of having an extensive family background around you. We all do as well, indirectly as human beings, but some needs more time than others to change. Perhaps they may not change at all depending on their upbringing as you also admitted.

How one religion group (or individuals) treats others (or vice versa) should not be used as generic (to that kind of group) because it may not be true for the majority. Though there maybe some truths in this article of yours, it may not be able to improve/change anything. Wallahualam. Like one says, 'Banyak Udang Banyak Garam, Banyak Orang Banyak Ragam'. Tolerance and inclusiveness is what we still need to learn as Malaysians in this country, and as human beings in this world.

Raja Petra yang dulu lagi best aku rasa. Korek maklumat, salahlaku, pendedahan rasuah dsb. pengkhianat bangsa kat negara kita ni. Mungkin dia dah penat kot untuk korek-korek ni. Saya rasa kupasan agama, halal-haram ni biarlah orang lain buat Bang.

TTK
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written by Bukit Chandan, January 11, 2008 16:09:33
We believe in the absolute truth from Allah s.w.t. As evidences, we would like to forward 4 events which were based on different times and places as follows:

1. During Prophet Abraham a.s.'s time, he was tortured by the Tyrant during that time when Prophet Abraham was made to sit on a fire and be burnt alive. With the will and power of Allah s.w.t. Prophet Abraham a.s. was not even scathed. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

2. During Prophet Moses a.s.'s time, he could split the Red sea into two and he and his followers walked straight across the Red Sea when the Pharoah and his army were on to them. After Prophet Moses a.s. and his followers safely crossed the sea, it came back to its usual state and drowned the Pharoah and his army when they were halfway across. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

3. During Prophet Jesus a.s.'s time, he could revive a dead man. The dead man came alive and talked to Prophet Jesus a.s. and his followers at that time. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

4. During Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.'s time, he could split the moon into 2 halves. Then, he could make the moon came to sit on his lap. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

These were all miracles that Allah s.w.t. have bestowed on His Prophets. Only Allah s.w.t. can give His Divine Guidance to whoever He pleases. We would not want to waste our time on people who do not believe in the absolute truth. Period.

Best Regards.........
bukit-chandan.blogspot.com
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written by fellow, January 11, 2008 16:44:01
Dear all,

"But how do you even know in the first place that there is such a thing called religion and that it came from God? You don't. You only have faith."

Faith. That's the most potent stuff in the human psyche. It is what major religions are built upon.

I am always amazed by what people can do with faith - from the most beautiful acts of compassion, to the most horrid acts of cowardice. Why are we motivated by faith? Is there a faith "quotient" in everyone of us? Is having faith good? What do you all think?
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written by malaysianohope, January 11, 2008 17:18:51
Dear Grand Dad Pete,

Your subject matter sure is controversial comment.

Anyevent I always thought religion is a belief or simply your faith in Him in guiding you in your day to day living. And if someone or an institution impost it on you then it is not religion.
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2008 17:51:05
Dear tuan tanah kedaung, when religion determines the outcome of the elections and what type of arse holes we will get running this country and some people go around thinking that they were personally appointed by God to decide how religion is 'played' then I have no choice but to keep whacking. I will stop when Malays stop talking about Islam while doing everything that Islam is against.
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2008 17:54:18
Dear Panca Indera, the ABSOLUTE TRUTH back in the old days was that religion taught us that the sun evolves around earth and anyone who said the opposite would be arrested and bruned alive at the stake on charges of heresy. That was the ABSOLUTE TRUTH then and you were killed if you denied this truth.
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written by AsamLaksa, January 11, 2008 19:07:02
I can't help but laugh every time somebody brings up 'absolute truth'. The irony is that most of the people who bring it up tend to cite non-absolutes as the 'absolute truth'. Did you ever define what absolute truths are and question those which you ascribe as absolute truths extensively enough to recognise the fallacy of the notion?

Are words in holy scripts absolure truths? Did the creator write the words down? Did the prophets write them down? Are the words ambiguous?

Even certain widely held basic beliefs such as killing is bad is not absolute truths. Where is the absolute truth on when life begins for humans? mono-cell zygote? Embryo stage? What week? Legal definition is foetus in the womb is not considered a life enough to be murdered. So why the fuss with abortion?

If there is such a thing as absolute truth it would be so basic that it becomes rather pointless to preach such as saying 'RPK posted the above article'. It's absolutely true (I think), perhaps not really what people had in mind of the absolute truth, but most importantly a totally pointless observation to preach. We can't even say that a core of the atom only consists of protons and neutrons because there are other components which do not easily fulfil the criteria of being physical and that the research so far is not final and who knows what else we can find in the core of the atom. What more of words where we can't even define the simple word 'love' accurately? Yeah it's a concept most people understand but you can't say it's absolute truth as people recognise it differently.

Newtonian physics was absolute truth... until relativity came along. Now it's post Hawkings and what's next? The Unified Theory? Early on it was paganism which was absolute truths. Then there were Hinduism, Judaism, Bhuddism, Chatolism, etc. which were considered absolute truths even before Islam waws founded. Does this mean absolute truth is errr... not really absolute? Could there be something else after Islam?

As for miracles... do you believe David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear if you were there to witness it? Would you believe that one of the things reported by witnesses before a tsunami strike is that the waters become very calm and the tide recedes so much more than usual exposing what is usually underwater? Would you believe that someone could wake up from a 10 year coma? Would you believe now that a prophet could cut the moon in half and place it on his lap with the knowledge you have today that the moon is huge, pock-marked and would surely affect the world's climate? Yeah, he shurnk it to the size of a honey dew melon while making sure the tides don't go haywire and place it on his lap to big gasps from the audience... Let me show you a magic trick I know... If your belief is only based on miracles or aim to only seek miracles then you have a big problem here. Otherwise stick to the teachings and leave the miracles as testament, but not necessarily the truth, of God's power.

This made me laugh even more: "These were all miracles that Allah s.w.t. have bestowed on His Prophets. Only Allah s.w.t. can give His Divine Guidance to whoever He pleases. We would not want to waste our time on people who do not believe in the absolute truth. Period."

Wow. That's one sulky God you describe there. I wonder if it's really true God chooses his followers and no the other way round. Hey, I wouldn't want to waste my time on people who do not believe in the absolute truth too... but what is the absolute truth? What you have are not people who believe in absolute truths but rather people who believe in the concept of absolute truths believing they believe in the absolute truth (wonder if people can get their he*** around this), perhaps like yourself Bukit Chandan. The distinction is subtle but makes a world of a difference. You may accuse me of playing with words to bolster my arguments but look in the mirror too.

So I smirk at anyone preaching absolute truths who fail to recognise that in the end they are simply preaching relative truths.
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written by sampalee, January 11, 2008 19:54:04
Absolute truth is non-conceptual and beyond the comprehension of mind which need concept as a handle to hold on.As it is beyond mind,it is not in the realm of believe which is mental.Only when the mind is silent[still with no thought,such as the interval between each sucessive thoughts]that the truth is evident.If one can perceive it,then it is not it,yet all are IT.Remember miracles are something you can also perceive and talk about,so it is not IT.ALL IS BRAHMAN.
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written by Motherchell, January 11, 2008 20:06:27
Its rare when one has to discuss the polemics like you do Pete,---racial harmony is so very important in Nation building. The more we have gems like you I can bet this country will be the best. The end games for the guys up there is just the opposite.

But we are lucky at least we have the freedom to express here!--- bearing in mind -- we ourselves should balance right and wrong -for the right reasons and for the wrong reasons.

Its wonderful when I see that the right and the wrong my self , in this Ala Carte of your thought The provoking lines. Your hard hitting ways are what Malaysia needs to the metamorphosis since the 50 years of Independence.. Your untiring truths to bear reminds me of Michaelangelo words,

"I saw an Angel in the marble and I chipped till I set it free"

I know Pete, you wont rest till you bring that fervent change in the thinking of all the learned ,the wise and the ordinary in the street . To spread that essence that is so badly needed from all the bigotry we encounter in our everyday life .

The World was flat , and now its a sphere! quite some time we took at that! The rural folks may also not know if the Internet is easily available , but then the truth is, they may also have been told its an unwanted accessory then teaching them its an essential. This is the make believe for those controlling minds.
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written by Suresh, January 11, 2008 20:23:16
Congratulations to you and yours,Raja Petra,and may the storks keep arriving regularly that the kingdom may be filled with enough princes and princesses who will continue your knightly tradition of saving or rather serving nations in distress.
On the topic of "relative-ness" it is true that "one becomes what one is taught" or "what one perceives"and even more so when it occurs when one is young and tender.
Imagine the permutations that can be derived from such a possibility in the whole of the planet.
Hence the varied and diverse selections of just about everything here on planet EArth eg.from "vocations of life" to "answers given when one is questioned"
We are surrounded by such richness and yet are encompassed by the negative around us.Or rather "perceive" the negative around us.
The world today is indeed in a sad predicament because of wrongful perceptions and the worst thing is that it is all relative !!!
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written by cruzeiro, January 11, 2008 20:56:24

1. During Prophet Abraham a.s.'s time, he was tortured by the Tyrant during that time when Prophet Abraham was made to sit on a fire and be burnt alive. With the will and power of Allah s.w.t. Prophet Abraham a.s. was not even scathed. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

2. During Prophet Moses a.s.'s time, he could split the Red sea into two and he and his followers walked straight across the Red Sea when the Pharoah and his army were on to them. After Prophet Moses a.s. and his followers safely crossed the sea, it came back to its usual state and drowned the Pharoah and his army when they were halfway across. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

3. During Prophet Jesus a.s.'s time, he could revive a dead man. The dead man came alive and talked to Prophet Jesus a.s. and his followers at that time. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

4. During Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.'s time, he could split the moon into 2 halves. Then, he could make the moon came to sit on his lap. If we were there at that time and place to witness this event, would we have believed it?

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I can't help but laugh every time somebody brings up 'absolute truth'.

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Don'y laugh too hard AL - when you poop, there's some absolute truth there!
smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by kodoktua, January 11, 2008 21:03:27
If the majority of Malaysian voters think the current Govt aka BN/UMNO no longer listen to the aspirations of the rakyat who voted them to power, the ABSOLUTE TRUTH is to kick them out of office in the soon coming GE!!!. I think that's the real 'law of relativity' that all Malaysians should contemplate now & work very hard to achieve. Period. smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif
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written by cruzeiro, January 11, 2008 21:08:15
Another "absolute truth" is - the miracle of Malaysians with their Testicles in their mouth since since 5.13, performed by "somebody" with the help of you know who .......
Truly amazing!!

The great Malaysian "prophets" keep dishing out prophecies of violence should their "social contract" and contractors.
And so the people grew testicles in their mouth (and many in their he***, too) - so much so, that they can't think or speak, unless there is some religious psycho-babble!
And the "prophets" are so happy ....

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written by cruzeiro, January 11, 2008 21:13:03
Sorry for typo............... it should've read:-

The great Malaysian "prophets" keep dishing out prophecies of violence should their "social contract" and contractors be rejected.

RPK, have edit facility lah ....
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written by indianputra, January 11, 2008 21:15:15
Damn!! I see so much energy wasted on topics like religion, truths, absolute truths, lies etc. Come on guys, get a grip on the current situation in YOUR COUNTRY, MALAYSIA!! Stop banging your head on things you just cannot control... Take a reality check..

The situation now is the dooming General Election in Malaysia. That is where your energy, concentration and paradigm should be focused.

Just suggest ways to deny BN a 2/3 majority. Come on.. give your intelligent ideas. Talk about it!! Let us learn from each other. You all know damn well that we got to get the BN goons out!! So, work towards it.

This blog is not for discussing religion, the Koran, the Mahabaratha or Bible or perception of human beings on the status of Truth, Love, Peace etc. ( NOT NOW, MAY BE LATER AFTER THE GE) This blog, if I may suggest is to oppress the idiotic way this country is governed.

Get your priorities right!!!
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written by kodoktua, January 11, 2008 21:24:47
Note : Try reading the Quran again and substitute the word ISLAM to SURRENDER(total unconditional surrender) and see if you get adifferent picture.
Salam


Well many people did that & these are some of the experiences they've discovered;
- they've SURRENDERED their birth rights to change their religion without being harassed
- they've SURRENDERED their birth rights hold hands in public without being arrested by 'holy policemen'
- they've SURRENDERED their birth rights for free speech without having a high price on their he***, like Salman Rushdie
- etc..etc...etc...
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written by datukbendahara69, January 11, 2008 21:46:23
The problem with Islam today is.... "My Islam is better (or more righteous)than yours". That is why Muslim is killing among themselves.
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written by wongnoball, January 11, 2008 22:27:07


NONCOMPETITIVE VALUES

The highest value is like water.
The value in water benefits All Things.
And yet it does not contend.
It stays in places that others distain,
And therefore is close to the Tao.

The value in a dwelling is location.
The value in mind is depth.
The value in relations is benevolence.
The value in words is sincerity.
The value in leadership is order.
The value in work is competence.
The value in effort is timeliness.

Since,indeed, they do not contend,
There is no resentment. smilies/cool.gif
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written by Century Patriot, January 12, 2008 00:22:50
Right or wrong is relative but Right is wrong AND wrong is wrong when perceived by THAT SOCIETY at that PARTICULAR time!

Having said that, let’s decide the followings;

PM feels is right to be corrupted when in power.
PM feels is right to extend the services of an incompetent IGP and questionable ACA DG.
SIL feels is right for him to behave as PM cos PM sleeps all the time.
IGP feels is right to connive with organized crime syndicate.
ACA DG feels is right to exonerate all corrupted organisms in power.
AG feels is right to manipulate the judiciary system for hidden agendas.
PM feels is right to repeal the Constitution for that cockroach in the EC.
Many more.

Who can say the above perceptions are wrong!! They can be right!! BUT they are WRONG and ABSOLUTELY WRONG bcos SOCIETY NOW feel and say they are WRONG!!! 500 years ago, they maybe right.

So, when WRONG IS SO WRONG, we must change them!! Right??
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written by AsamLaksa, January 12, 2008 00:31:50
cruzeiro: "Don'y laugh too hard AL - when you poop, there's some absolute truth there!"

I know and it absolutely truthfully feels good too. smilies/cheesy.gif Now stop turning this into some toilet joke. smilies/cheesy.gif


sampalee: "Absolute truth is non-conceptual and beyond the comprehension of mind which need concept as a handle to hold on.As it is beyond mind,it is not in the realm of believe which is mental.Only when the mind is silent[still with no thought,such as the interval between each sucessive thoughts]that the truth is evident.If one can perceive it,then it is not it,yet all are IT.Remember miracles are something you can also perceive and talk about,so it is not IT.ALL IS BRAHMAN."

This sounds so much like meditation which may lead to achieving enlightenment. One fundamental point here is that it goes down to the very basics of our being. In meditation you are meant to leave all worldly worries behind and delve into the spirit. This is not something new and has been practiced for hundreds if not thousands of years. I must admit my ignorance here because I have yet to achieve such a state of mind or else I won't post griping about current issues. Nevertheless, this is not what most people think of when they preach/mention absolute truths or else they will also realise it's pointless to condemn another person's version of absolute truth from reasons as stated by sampalee.

I agree with RPK that religions and beliefs play a part in politics. My other concern is the negative kind of attitude associated with people who believe their beliefs superior than others which may lead to conflicts as RPK pointed of those who push their beliefs and values onto unwilling others. A shot of Absolut Truth anybody? smilies/grin.gif
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written by RasuahMinister, January 12, 2008 00:33:05
I spent 2 weeks on vacation in Croatia's nudist village.

Now I come back to Malaysia, I saw Malay women copying the black desert Arabian attire.

Aiyoh, what is wrong here?? smilies/grin.gif
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written by Seng Ngiap, January 12, 2008 00:43:55
Interesting. I share the same view too.
Just today, I borrow a bible from my colleague so that i will have a same context on Christianity with Christians. From the first page of Genesis, 1:27 - 30 it sounded like this

27. So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

29. And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruits yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

30. "Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so.

Obviously, He did not mean us to eat over animal. Love is life. His love brings life to this earth. How do you have love when there is cruelty against animal.

RPK,
All religions are true as good as it is false too. This world is a dual world where we have day and night, male and female, right and wrong. Depend how you choose to practise it. Yes, Muhammad was a prophet. Yes Jesus was a prophet. Yes Sakyamuni Buddha was a prophet. They send us teaching, people receive it as religion on the surface. But one can gain an understanding of the nature of the universe from holy script from religions unbiased and objectively, practise it and gain a little bit wisdom. Live life like them. Quiet down and not stir, so that dust will subside and you shall see your own self. Open your heart, eyes and windows and you shall see heaven and listen to music of heaven. Let go of your perception built since childhood, let it be interrupted by Him and you may ask Him your questions.

Have faith and your journey has just begun.
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written by MERCYNOTJUSTICE07, January 12, 2008 01:17:31
Yes yes i fully agreed to your keen observation of being right or wrong as colored by religions, upbringing, sense of value or the place played a very important part. Now, it is also a subject that will provoke a lot of discussions. And now, we have to finally attempt to find out the ultimate RIGHT from WRONG.That is the actual RIGHT OR WRONG. The answer lies first in religion. It is the starting point for one must believe that they is a God who made us all, indeed we cannot say we came (the human race) by accident. We must say that we came by design or a purpose. OK it is true that adherents of all religions will of course will say theirs is truel. So, we will come to a point where we have to determine whose and which is true. Yes, they are many false religions and only one true one. Of course i would not want to even attempt to point out the false ones, you the listeners decides after reading my arguments or reasonings. If there is such a true religion having the RIGHT VALUEs of universal and everlasting relevancy then its adherents/followers MUST know whether it TRUE OR FALSE. So that the adherents/followers will make the TRUE AND LIVING GOD proud whilst at the same time living a victorious life. Surely that true God will teach you how to spot the true religion in the sea of so many religion lest you get lost and drown. Now, it is actually very simple to spot the TRUE RELIGION AND ITS RIGHT VALUES that are beyond dispute. OK, God make us and you know how he called us. God called us TREE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS PLANTED BY THE LORD. Yes, I recalled in one of your write up where you said Poisonness Tree will bear poisonness fruits, exactly and herein lies the ANSWER. iF THE TRUE GOD planted you as trees of rightiousnes, then you will and must bear fruit of righteousness. You cannot tell the whole world your religion is true and your fruit is so bad and distasteful. How can you say you are an orange (sweet and juicy) but when one eat it it taste more like a lemon or grapefruit. Followers of the TRUE AND LIVING GOD will display fruit of righteousness that no one can imitate, simply because the TRUE GOD produces it thru you. Let me humbly share it with you the nine types of fruits that will distinguish you from the false ones. This profound fruits that one cannot imitate are the fruit of LOVE, PEACE, JOY, PATIENCE,KINDNESS, GOODNESS, GENTLENESS, FAITHFULLY AND SELF CONTROL. iF one expand on its true meaning and value of these fruit, then your RIGHTEOUSNESS or your RIGHT or values will make you shine like a DAY. So, RPK your observation of right or wrong is so real and meaningful but alas in the context of this rotten world. Believe me out there is a righteous standard established by God since the foundation of the world was laid. The world became corrupted by sin and sin tinted men man-made religions proliferated throughout the world make right and wrong so confusing that indeed we live in a confused world today.
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written by Panca Indera, January 12, 2008 02:31:37
Salam,

Dear RPK,
Quote,“That was the ABSOLUTE TRUTH then and you were killed if you denied this truth..”

Inshallah for me I would [6.162] Say. Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds;” [3.185] Every soul shall taste of death, and you shall only be paid fully your reward on the resurrection day; then whoever is removed far away from the fire and is made to enter the garden he indeed has attained the object; and the life of this world is nothing but a provision of vanities.

Of course the only Absolute Truth that matters is the Only Reality that matters i.e ALLAH Who :-“22.66] And He it is Who has brought you to life, then He will cause you to die, then bring you to life (again); most surely man is ungrateful.” And
[7.51] Who take their religion for an idle sport and a play and this life's world deceives them; so today We forsake them, as they neglected the meeting of this day of theirs and as they denied Our communications.

AsamLaksa said:-“Where is the absolute truth on when life begins for humans? mono-cell zygote? Embryo stage? What week? Legal definition is foetus in the womb is not considered a life enough to be murdered.”
In Islam, life begins when the soul unites with the body in the womb after the completion of four months. That’s why a miscarriage before five months does not require funeral rites. That’s ALLAH’s Guidance and its in the Quran.

Note: LIFE is human is defined when normal body and soul function consciously and unconsciously together and not separated and independent. That’s another story

AsamLaksa said “It's absolutely true (I think), Yes my dear, I think! Therefore I am”(not perhaps).I am sure you know that(even the blind can see,). Unless Allah has closed your heart from the truth because of your disbelieve and arrogance [2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.

Remember, Just because you don’t understand or cannot accept or cannot comprehend an idea,concept or Reality, they are not real or true or does not exists.On the same token don't swallow everything without questioning or doubting.

“kodoktua” SURRENDER here means making oneself as ALLAH’s slave, period. Not surrendering oneself to anybody else or lust, greed, vanity, jealousy etc.etc.
So I smirk at anyone preaching absolute truths who fail to recognise that in the end they are simply preaching relative truths.”
The Muslim brother, Harun Yahya from Turkey has written many books including about relative and Absolute truth. Try dropping by at Al-SABA book stores around KL for a copy and read.
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written by Raja Petra, January 12, 2008 08:08:20
Dear indianputra, get out of here. Go to THE CORRIDORS OF POWER if you want to discuss politics.
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written by Raja Petra, January 12, 2008 08:21:39
I think now some are beginning to get it. Believing that we are followers of the only true religion (and that all the others are false) make us feel superior. And when we feel superior and feel that God has 'chosen' use (and that we shall go to heaven and and all the others are going to hell) make us look down on others as inferior. And this superiority feeling will make us arrogant and not want to compromise with others.

That would make it very difficult for the Islamists to agree to compromise with the Kafir. And the Kafir will not trust the Islamists in return. And Barisan Nasional will sweep 60% of the votes and 85% of the seats.

So YOUR attitude of right and wrong may be the determining factor on how you treat others. And how you treat others may determine whether you become comrades or adversaries. And comrades stand together while adversaries will not trust each other. And without trust we shall not unite. And without unity Barisan Nasional will continue ruling this country.
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written by Dogboy, January 12, 2008 08:37:40
What is right are religions like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Hindus are multiple faiths all leading to one goal, to worship GOD, in their own different ways. I don't think the sciptures taught people to think other religions are wrong but people do so anyway, as RPK says to have a 'superior' feeling over others. This does not only apply to religion.
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written by wongnoball, January 12, 2008 09:57:51
Dear RPK,

Your last comment is really spot-on.
'Show respect to the spirits and deities, then keep away from them', that was the advice from Confucious about 25 centuries ago.
'Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire'.
'While you are not able to serve men, how can you serve spirits(of the dead), while you do not know life, how can you know about death?'
'Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue'
And the last advice from him,'life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
AMEN LAH !!!!! smilies/grin.gif smilies/wink.gif
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written by indianputra, January 12, 2008 12:01:50
written by Raja Petra, January 12, 2008 | 08:08:20

Dear indianputra, get out of here. Go to THE CORRIDORS OF POWER if you want to discuss politics.

======================================================

Thank you RPK for opening my eyes. RPK, this is still a 'NO HOLDS BARRED' site and as such comments can be NO HOLDS BARRED!

Just trying to tell you guys to mobilize your energy, stamina, thoughts, will power, nonsensical comments, intelligent ideas to do the current need. THAT IS TO GIVE BN A TOUGH FIGHT in the next GE.

In fact all our concentration for the next few months should be the GE. And when we deny the BN a 2/3 majority, we can start talking on anything from abalone to zebra.
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written by Century Patriot, January 12, 2008 12:34:00
written by Raja Petra, January 12, 2008 | 08:21:39

I think now some are beginning to get it. Believing that we are followers of the only true religion (and that all the others are false) make us feel superior. And when we feel superior and feel that God has 'chosen' use (and that we shall go to heaven and and all the others are going to hell) make us look down on others as inferior. And this superiority feeling will make us arrogant and not want to compromise with others

Comment: If everyone realised and remembered what Prophet Mohammad said when asked 'In Islam there are 73 groups, only one will go to Heaven ', the above will not happen!!
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written by Rohani Hitam, January 12, 2008 12:42:41
Congratulations,

You must be very fortunate at this young age gifted with grandchildrens that brighten your life and adding more vibrant to your already heavy activities with your blogg.

In Malaysia we are seeing two groups of citizen. The first are the Muslims who think other religion is wrong and all have to observe the sanctity of Islam. These Muslims also form the majority and thus their political supremecy is almost unquestionable. The second group are the non-Muslims who think that Islam is a bad religion that promotes violent, suppression and discrimination. So the perception of the two groups of each other is at all time negative. But democracy kept the precarious situation well under control and people would conduct their everyday life oblivion of each other's differences. Only when things become pent up that the situation shifted and the government will apply the extra-ordinary measures to shut, confine and oppress the protesters.

Difference in opinion and perception of the two groups will continue in Malaysia and the disparity gets wider with the present government. This coming election results will show whether we are gong for a disaster or a compromise.

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written by tukjanggut, January 12, 2008 12:59:55
You are right RPK everybody can claim that his/her religion are true, be it ayah Pin or Reverend Jones or anybody for that matter. It is no big deal.That doesn’t make them true.
Truth is not determine by claims and faith, but by proof and evidence. In the court of law if there are 5 people claiming upon a property, the court will request them to produce their evidences. The court will examine their evidences then only will it determines who the rightful owner is. .The same goes with religion, any religion for that matter. Religion is not a matter of claims and faith, it is more then that. It must provide evidence for what it claims.
It is absurd and stupid to blindly believe something without event examine it. And it is also stupid to denounce religion just because everybody claims his religion is true.
We have been endowed with intellect and wisdom and we use these in our everyday lives to understand things, to solve all our problems and to guide us in our decisions. Why don’t we apply these to ascertain the truth and validity of religion.
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."[ The Quran, 17:36]
So what are the criteria required to ascertain the true religion. Firstly it must be able to identify The Creator, provide the answer to the purpose of life and solves the problems of creation. Only the creator knows the purpose of his creation and how it is being created, i.e man created computers only he knows the purpose of computers and how to create it, others beside men doesn’t know, if you don’t believe me try asking monkeys, donkeys or buffaloes. It must be able to solve all the problem pertaining to men existence i.e. its racial problem, social problem, financial problems and so on. It source (scripture) must be free of contradictories and it must also proclaim itself and provide proof for it.
Let us start with these first, the religion that satisfied all these criteria is the true religion and we can be very certain that it is from the creator Himself.
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written by cruzeiro, January 12, 2008 13:18:53
What simpletons ......
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written by kodoktua, January 12, 2008 18:20:04
Panca Indera wrote:
AsamLaksa said “It's absolutely true (I think), “ Yes my dear, I think! Therefore I am”(not perhaps).I am sure you know that(even the blind can see,). Unless Allah has closed your heart from the truth because of your disbelieve and arrogance [2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.


That's strange. Why must or should Allah close one's heart who disbelieve? Shouldn't He try His very best to open and soften their hearts instead? Same goes to why must He add more diseases into their hearts. Should't the 'merciful' Allah give them healing instead??? smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif

Panca Indera wrote:
“kodoktua” SURRENDER here means making oneself as ALLAH’s slave, period. Not surrendering oneself to anybody else or lust, greed, vanity, jealousy etc.etc.


I prefer to become a child of God instead of being Allah's SLAVE for obvious reasons!!!

And those my friend is the "Absolute Truth", at least from my point of view!!!??? smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif
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written by AsamLaksa, January 12, 2008 20:07:19
Panca Indera Harun Yahya's books can be read full text online. Not too impressed with initial reading though as too much rethoric based on a single faith and lack application out of Islam. Would like views from other belief systems for more ideas. I like viewing things as an outsider to try and reduce prejudice.

I knew I was stirring the acid vat when I made the post mentioning I laugh as people who preach absolute truth as I still do laugh at them. It's really amusing to note that Panca Indera replied with the statement I think! Therefore I am when I expected someone to make that reply using the exact words. I have thought about the existence of self/conscienceness and how to prove it and the idea of I think therefore I am may be outdated in the future with development of technology. Creating a thinking machine that can learn on it's own but is given strict boundaries does not create a self/conscienceness. So i'm still struggling to accept I think therefore I am as the universal truth. There may be other ingredients missing. Perhaps in the future it would be 'I can think beyond I think therefore I am therefore I am'.

Why is the soul invested in the feotus at 4 months? How do you know if it is true? Is it based on any physical characteristics of the foetus then? Does it have rights then? Would death caused to the feotus over 5 months result in murder?

Anyway to further add my views... if there is an absolute truth, wouldn't it be universal and not exclusive to a particular belief system? Humans existed before foundation of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Bhuddhism, Hinduism, etc.. If there is an absolute truth it would have existed since time immemorial. Now I can say all religions preach absolute truth in one way or another thus it would mean that there's multiple methods to achieve it based on their doctrines, if they are correct.

The real trouble here is that there is absolutely no way to tell who's doctrine is completely false. It's also a ludicrious notion to think in the lines that God is exclusive. If he is the all mighty, means he governs non-believers as well thus the absolute truth imposed is the same. That He chooses people to guide sounds like He's promoting elitist and exclusivity which is not a God I would want to follow. If He's the all merciful and healing, there should be little distinction between believers and non-believers. Thus it wouldn't be far fetched that non-believers have as much chance of finding the truth as believers just that methods may vary. Please don't bring up the issue of real believers vs non-real believers as this only shows that there's even further unnecessary distinction which can't be fully distiunguished. This shows the fallacy of monopolising this truth... if the assumption is correct.

One example if you believe that Bhudda achieved enlightenment and thus found the ultimate truth this practically defeats the notion that there's only one way and one belief to find the absolute truth. Would they then choose not to believe and find the need to denounce Buddha? What this will lead to is preventing expansion of ideas and beliefs. Smells like dogma.

So... I'm still smirking, like it or not and fortunately, I'm open to ideas.
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written by dreadloxking, January 12, 2008 21:20:18
Mmm...another interesting article to read. Sometimes I wonder why many people,especially Muslims they like to 'mengkafirkan' other people without realising,if they read Koran they'll get the answers. Sorry, but I'm not trying to be perfect here. My perception about >> "Your entire family is Muslim and you have been taught to believe that if you do not believe in Islam you will be sent to hell where you will remain forever. How would you not believe this is so?"...from what I read in Koran, the people who have truly 'faith' or who are truly 'faithful' will go into heaven. So that means no matter if you are Jews or Christians or Muslims, if you believe the existence of God, as the only One (no son,no wife,never sleep,never eat,never drink & etc.) and follow His messengers' straight path, you will go into heaven. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I believe. And I believe if somebody is on side with Wahhabism, they definitely will find me and straight away kill me because of this statement,trust me! PEACE & LOVE!
smilies/wink.gif
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written by Panca Indera, January 12, 2008 22:17:58
Dear all,
I know I’m been baited on. Just this last time. For Kodoktua and AsamLaksa. Kodoktua first

Kodoktua:”That's strange. Why must or should Allah close one's heart who disbelieve? Shouldn't He try His very best to open and soften their hearts instead? Same goes to why must He add more diseases into their hearts. Should't the 'merciful' Allah give them healing instead??? .

ALLah is Gracious or Beneficent to all mankind regardless of race, color or religion.
But He is Only Merciful to the believers who disobey. That’s why you get a chance to get back into heaven after spending time in hell(one of the reasons anyway).Also He is Oft –Forgiving as long as you repent, even if you are old and grey or keep repeating the sins because of your weakness.

Kodoktua says,”I prefer to become a child of God instead of being Allah's SLAVE for obvious reasons!!! “
Go ahead, but you are going to confuse a lot of people.
If you are God’s child, then someone will perceived (Relative Truth) that God is Your father and therefore bound to be jealousy somewhere . I am sure there are others who wants to be “literally” His children.

However, If you are His slave(Absolute Truth sometimes hurt, all of us are His slaves, even though some will disagree), then the relationship is between Master/Owner and slave/property.The Master can do as He wishes.

I won’t be able to reply after this anymore but one to Asamlaksa, Inshallah
Salam.
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written by Panca Indera, January 12, 2008 23:35:01
Dear Asam laksa
ref Would like views from other belief systems for more ideas. I like viewing things as an outsider to try and reduce prejudice.
You can try Socrates, Jean-Paul Sartre, Carl Jung, Sigmund Fraud, Nietzsche, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Bhagavad Gita, Zoroastrian, Zen, Ancestors Worships or whatever you may wish If you feel the need. Ignorance breeds prejudice.Knowledge brings understanding for humanity hopefully = wisdom

So i'm still struggling to accept I think therefore I am as the universal truth.

Try accepting “ I don’t exist, therefore I don’t think, therefore I shouldn’t be even be on this site reading your reply.

If there is an absolute truth, wouldn't it be universal and not exclusive to a particular belief system? ... Absolutely! Islam does not below to the Arabs or Malays but to all mankind.
There is Absolute Truth and Universal it is called ISLAM( ToTAL SURRENDER because Creator with no beginning and no Ending = Eternal= not created, = cannot be destroyed.
We all are created, therefore= can be destroyed=can be created again to face the music.

That He chooses people to guide sounds like He's promoting elitist and exclusivity which is not a God I would want to follow.
Freedom of Choice, man. Just wish you are absolutely sure you are right in your decision. There is no second change or Rebirth unless you are a Hindu or Buddhist. Are you willing to take that Gamble with your self?
I don’t want to be reborn into a rat or pig or dog or snake or worm, but rather be a Raptor. On second thought I Just wanted to be Nothing!(non -entity)
If He's the all merciful and healing, there should be little distinction between believers and non-believers.
Sorry, don’t understand the point you are trying to make, but from my own personal experience, believers and non-believers are like chalk and cheese in terms of performance and actions in SURRENDERING, NOT SEX.

Thus it wouldn't be far fetched that non-believers have as much chance of finding the truth as believers just that methods may vary.
Seek(sincerely by asking HIM and thou
shall find! A time proven fact.

Please don't bring up the issue of real believers vs non-real believers as this only shows that there's even further unnecessary distinction which can't be fully distiunguished.

There are no such terminologies in the Quran i.e. real believers vs non-real believers.
Instead there are
1.Believers
2.Unbelievers
3.Disbelievers
4.Hypocrites(there are mall as well as big ones)
5.polytheists
(including those who worship money, wealth and power)

Check out the real meaning, and you decide who you want to be.

This shows the fallacy of monopolising this truth... if the assumption is correct.
Relative or Absolute truth?

Last but not least at this stage I would tend to agree with Indraputra as we can argue on religion until the cows come home and there will still be differences.
Why?
Because hell would be to dammed empty and quiet and many angles will be jobless(ha ha)

Maa Salam!
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written by EW, January 13, 2008 01:18:29
If anything, my life thus far has taught me that there is no right or wrong in this world. Nothing is black and white, with many gray areas to tend to. Psychologists have been studying the effect of peer pressure and grouping and how people are forced to accept an idea and/or terminology based on the masses. On the surface, people look like they lack a backbone to challenge what is deemed "right" or "wrong" in a society but in actual fact, many are just pressured into conforming even though they might not agree with it.

A very interesting experiment would be Solomon Asch's Conformity experiment. Which later on sprouted the Milgram's obedience experiment, which showcased how humans would endanger/harm another human being under the pressure of an authoritative figure. In other words, what is right or wrong becomes slighted when some sort of group pressure/authoritative pressure is involved.

So the question still remains: what is right if it can be wrong and what is wrong if can be right by manipulation?

Different cultures and believe aside, there is just simply no right or wrong in life.

But I know wishing a comrade for a happy occasion like receiving his fourth grandchild is right; Congratulations on the new addition to the family, RPK!
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written by The One, January 13, 2008 02:29:34
dear Raja Petra,
salam,
a few years back, i did gave this sort of thing a thought. i also thinks wat makes right is right, and wrong is wrong?
dis is the result tht i have agreed upon.
before tht, i would like to say, in response to your article, tht, how could one follow a mojority when he himself made up tht majority? u say tht our belief and perception of right and wrong is based on majority view. but its d ppl who made up dis majority view. so, u r saying tht they r following themselves. which makes no sense. who say its right? y? how? Its d ppl. how to win majority's vote(agreement)? a logical, acceptable and the best idea.
and dis is the conclusion of my thought few years back.
right and wrong is decided by the majority of tht place.
how to get the agreement of the majority, when there r a lot of ideas and 'path-shower', i.e the one who came with the idea in d first place on how to solve sumthin or decide on sumthin.
the majority will choose the best way among those which are given to them.
and thts wat decide wat is right and wrong.
the best way which were given to the people.
ofcourse, religion plays a part in it. but im talkin more generally.
plus, everythin has its positive and negative side.
the right or the gud one is the one which have more positive values thn the neg and vice-versa.
it is true tht like u said, in diff places, diff things were practised, it does bring us d question tht wat type of life were practiced by the first humain on earth? wouldnt at tht time really convey the real right and wrong in life? as the first humain, his first thought would b d only thought to luk at too thus decide wat is wrong and right on d face of d earth. and could the first humain made a wrong decision about the bad way and gud way of life on earth? (ignoring d soul mistake before he were sent down on earth, or any way depends to your religion)
im discusing dis because to question wat is right and wrong, we have to also at how they were form and origine from. because thts how d idea of right and wrong were put into the minds of d ppl in d first place.
now, wouldnt the first humain religion is the right religion? and his way of life is the righteous one?
but then, afterwards, there were his ancestors, going all around the world, practicing diff way of life.
with their own right and wrong. and wat influence dis diff right and wrong? thnks to my religion, i can explain dis by saying it comes from other factor, which is d creature from other dimension (Satan if we want to call them). without my religion i may not b able to explain y those among the first descendant lifestyle differentiate from d one practice by the first humain. if the first humain were to have a luk at dis situation, would he then, agree with all of them? if he disagree with one way of his ancestor's life. wouldnt tht make his descendant is doin sumthin wrong, even in tht time. and in tht place.
so wat really makes right is right and wrong is wrong? if the first humain were to go to France(where im rite now, so if u come here, do msg me), 500years ago, he would, as im sure of if u want to argue witn me, then lets just take it as an example, to disagree with them, even if the majority says diff. would it b bcoz of how he was brought up? first humain = no parents.
so wat makes his judgement?
wat tells him wat is wrong and right, thus deciding for gud on how humain should judge on life.
he, d first humain on earth, is special, he gets first hand guidance to life. i have tried to explain this using neutral point of view but when u ask deep and basic question, u have to go to your religion, and for me, it is Islam. y? because it provides ans. humain mind, though deep and brilliant, there r limits, i cant find an explanation trou other religions, or, a logical one if there is another explanation..
right and wrong originate from the eye of God.
God tells d first human how he should live. and wat makes diff ppl den living diff way of life in diff places? (in term of gud and bad bcoz i want 2 ignore geological aspect) have to originate from sumwhere else, diff factor. which is Satan. y they do tht, also explain in my religion. those among d first descendant, travel, way across d globe, far from d first humain, has become astray. those who follow d first humain, stay in d right path. (this devide right and wrong, and it still is until now)
one can b wrong, no matter where he live, how he was brought up, when he was borned if what he does is wrong to the eye of God.
to understand right and wrong, it is to understand how God wants us to live.
and tht is the ultimate pursuit in life.
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written by The One, January 13, 2008 02:32:30
sorry for my mistake on the word 'human' as i have mix it up with the French language.
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written by The One, January 13, 2008 02:40:30
word mistake, again :
1) "im discusing dis because to question wat is right and wrong, we have to LOOK at how they were form and origine from"

2) but then, afterwards, there were his descendants, going all around the world, practicing diff way of life
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written by lokenpal, January 13, 2008 04:09:15
Right and wrong based on a working and democratic legal system is quite obvious. Historical differences occur.

However right and wrong based on religious doctrines are subjective and relative. So its best the STATE & Church/Mosque/Temple stays separate; for long term sustainability of any capitalist government. Look at China; probably there is too much separation; moreover forced!!
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written by redkelah, January 13, 2008 07:52:34
Your argument on one man meat is another man's poison is very true. What is right or wrong demands on where you stand and NO ONE, unless he can return from the dead knows the truth.

We should reduce discussions on Religion as it will hurt one party, especially one who is blinded by his faith. It will lead to misunderstandings and worst, YOU can be arrested for 'insulting' the religion.

Congratulation Grandpa.
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written by addrk, January 13, 2008 11:20:20
Relativity applies in all contexts. But, it becomes a concern when it is used as an excuse for defending immoral, unjust and discriminatory behaviours. The ability to differentiate right from wrong, good from bad, just from un-just requires a sincere adherence to truth, as it presents itself.

The poser is not "how do we pass judgement when everything is relative ?" but rather, "how do we reprimand and correct insincere politicians (an oxymoron to boot) from making statements and decisions which are immoral, dishonest, dicriminatory and against the order of truth ?"

The 2 most common and demonstrated options are : protests and elections. Each has a different strategy and each have multiple variations of how they can be used, abused or dis-used. We have seen various protests over the last 6 months and will see elections within the next 3.

Cheers.
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written by Kritz, January 13, 2008 11:42:44
Einstein must be envy of you in his grave by using his idea of relavity to compare what is good and bad from religious perspective! Well done RPK!!!
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written by Bill Gates, January 13, 2008 14:18:35
Q.1 I am sure will of us will die one day. Right or wrong?

Q.2 I am sure RM10 today can buy you less things compared to 10 years ago. Right or wrong?

Q.3 The NEP policy is a never ending policy. Right or wrong?

Q.4 KJ is the pain in the arse even among BN members. Right or wrong?

Q.5 The admission of Chua Soi Lek is true. Right or wrong?
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written by Abakjr, January 13, 2008 14:40:58
I don't really agree that most of us profess our religion because we are born into it . I was searching for truths for almost more than 50 years .( I an 61 now and i am still finding knowledge ). I read all the books of religion especially the Abrahamic religion . At the age 0f 55 I finally attended formal classes on Islam at one of the public universities .There I found the truths and affirm my faiths in it - that Islam is the true religion which could guide human beings in this world and the world after . Many Muslims do not know that Islam encourages them to question any doubts and find answers .The religion do not want its followers to becomes mere followers , instead they are encouraged to enrich their knowledge and understanding of the religion because all Muslims are considered 'khalifahs' on this earth . If Muslims themselves do not really understand the religion , how are they going to guide others. The weaknesses sighted by RPK is not due to Islam but due to the individual Muslims themseslves who do not care to find knowledge . There are many verses in the Quran which call its followers to search for knowledge and understanding of the religion . Like followers of other religions too most of us are too obsessed with the worldly life .Most of us want to be rich , enjoy life and forgetting the fact that life in this world is just a transit on our journey to eternal life .
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written by aiyomanaboleh, January 13, 2008 15:00:13
So life is full of contradictions. But at least the almighty has spared us the ordeal of living in contradiction real time. Can you imagine if you have 2 planes of life at any one time. One current and the other maybe 200 years ago where you screw as much as you want without fear or favour. Your current self will always be nudging your 200 years old self ... "hey hey quick quick it's my turn now" "What! got to wait one more round" "Cannot lah wife gonna wake up soon" "Please let me go first lah"
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written by CrazyPig, January 13, 2008 17:14:20
MESSAGE FROM EX-MINISTER:

TO PRACTISE SAFE SEX.... USE MASK, NOT CONDOM! smilies/grin.gif
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written by Fartkor, January 13, 2008 17:33:39
haha smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by harrbm, January 14, 2008 00:00:19

Dear YM RPK

Thank you for this article. All Malaysians should read it. How true.


>
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written by AsamLaksa, January 14, 2008 03:50:15
Panca Indera, It's so easy to label another person who doesn't believe in what you believe as ignorant and breeder of prejudice. isn't it? As easy for those who think they know more than others to have prejudical ideas.

I've only read 2 on the list you have there and I admit it's not easy for me to comprehend. I have heard of most of the names but not Baba Nanak. Will look up the others in my own time. Thanks until you got to ancestor worship which smells of sarcasm. Though can't stand Harun Yahya's rant most of the time. He sounds like he's taking a decent look at things but when i sit back and ponder upon it, his views become very narrow. He appears to be targeting a specific niche which are Muslims who are deemed misguided in his view.

Try accepting “ I don’t exist, therefore I don’t think, therefore I shouldn’t be even be on this site reading your reply.
- this is like me asking what is the truth and you telling me that the truth is not the lie. it's real nice of you to tell me what is not rather than what is.

The One, could you recognise Satan if he comes knocking on your door? He could be your teachers, your neighbour, your parent, your friend, etc.. Can you recognise Satan's teachings? He may have the most righteous sounding words and acts for if he's so easily distinguished then he's not much of a problem, is he? I do not think it's so simple as distinguishing black from white. Is faith a shield or a weakness? As easily as humans manipulate faith for their own ends what more from the master deceiver?

I am not averse to arguing over beliefs till whenever and however the cows can some raining down because this way I can learn how other people perceive beliefs. This approach applies not just to beliefs but politics, economics, social, etc.. Most times there is no absolutely right or wrong answer and it's not the most important bit as I stated my my very first post on this article. Some people will chastise me that getting it right or wrong is the most important thing in an argument but I strongly disagree because I argue for my own benefit as stated above and I care little if people find me right or wrong. So whatever the topic, bring it on as long as I am still able to reply.
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written by SikhWarrior83, January 14, 2008 08:13:38
Dear RPK,
I would like to humbly apologize for my delay in writing back as i was having my exams.We have gotten off on the wrong foot here.Firstly,tolerance means a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry(www.dictionary.com).Secondly,let me challenge your thought's that all 'Every religion, not only Islam, says it is right and that all the other religions are wrong'.Let me give you a brief
introduction to Sikhism:-
Sikhs believe there is only one God, who has infinite qualities and names. He is the same for all religions. God is the Creator and Sustainer. All that you see around you is God's creation. He is everywhere, in everything. He is fearless and has no enemies. Only God is without birth or death, and He has and will exist forever.
Sikhs believe that all humans are equal. "We are sons and daughters of Waheguru, the Almighty." Sikhs are taught to treat all people of the world the same. No gender, racial, social or other discrimination is allowed. This is the message of Guru Nanak as taught by the 10 Sikh Masters during the period 1469 to 1708.
The Sikh Gurus tell us that salvation can be obtained by following various spiritual paths. Therefore, Sikhs do not have a monopoly on salvation: "Many spiritual paths lead to God." Sikhs do not consider they have an "exclusive" right to salvation. They do not consider themselves the "chosen people of God". In fact, the Sikh scripture advances the message of "equality" of humanity (despite religious differences) and offers the advice that Muslims should be better Muslims and Hindus be better Hindus. Christian, Hindus, Muslim, Jews and others all have the same right to liberty as Sikhs. However, Sikhism does teach that unlike other faiths, it is a more direct and a simpler path to salvation (union with God). Sikhs believe that Pandits, Qazis, Mullahs, Priests, etc. do not hold the key to salvation, but rather that God has given every person the right to hear and obey God's word.
The following lines from Guru Granth Sahib explain the importance of treating every spiritual path as a valid path to God and salvation:

* “One who recognizes that all spiritual paths lead to the One shall be emancipated. One who speaks lies shall fall into hell and burn. In all the world, the most blessed and sanctified are those who remain absorbed in truth. One who eliminates selfishness and conceit is redeemed in the court of the Lord. ||9||”

* “Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran. Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3|| Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu. Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4|| Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God’s will, knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||”

* “Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible. Restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. ||4||”

* “Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||”

* “By His power the Vedas and the Puraanas exist, and the Holy Scriptures of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions. By His power all deliberations exist.”

It is every Sikh's duty to defeat these five thieves: Lust (Kaam), Anger (Kr'odh), Greed (Lob'H), Attachment (Mo'H), and Pride (a'Hankar). The five thieves live within every person and it is the duty of each Sikh to subdue and control the behavior of these emotions.

There are many similar texts in the Guru Granth that are thus grounded in the sacred texts of both Hinduism and Islam, but have an identity and content of their own.
This above is all i have learnt throughout my life. That is why i took offense to your statement above.We have never believed of been taught to condemn another man's religion or to say ours is better then others.I would like to admit that most of above are taken from many sites and are important.Well,if i do not step on your shoe once more and we have understood one another,then take this above as a token of knowledge n appreciation from your fellow Sikh friend.Thank you .Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh(The Khalsa belong to God, Victory belongs to God)
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written by sampalee, January 14, 2008 09:11:55
All is the manifestation of one.To stil maintain the concept of seperation as one stepping on the other is to remain in samsara.But to realise it is only your left leg stepping on your right leg will be a guide as upon realisation,there is NO others[Me and my father am ONE]
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written by Ken Liew, January 14, 2008 10:28:05
As i said, right or wrong, good or bad. I wont care, as long as there are something to be done OR changed.

We know, After Dr. M era, AAB is still copying Dr. M's system. And the same OLD corek-door, the same development but different place. One good feedback that I remembered from the OLD site: "Different leaders, Same party = different problems, SAME consequences." So if another Umno's member replace AAB as PM. Same shit will happen.

What we want now is changes. IF the outcome is worst then the Umnos (which is rare), we will still accept it, this is the choice that we made. After that, we will change again. Now Umno Made all the choices and the rakyat follow, and all choices are their WILL to digging us, the rakyat DRY.

Politician should listen to the public and make a balance decissions between nation's wishes, the ecomomic, and a running country. But Umnos are making themselves rich and the public/nation POOR. And this is not the way to run a country. This is not balance.

IF the Umno guyz ever played Sim City. they will surely throw the game away. Cos they wont have the brains to play that game.

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written by Alan, January 14, 2008 11:52:03
Wonderful article.

Please allow me, however, to correct some misconception about Buddhism. Specifically, readers should kindly be informed that the following statements are not part of the Buddhist doctrine:
1, Buddhist are necessarily vegetarians.
2, Sakyamuni Buddha was a prophet.
3, Buddhism is God-centric.

Buddhism is not even a religion (per se) to begin with- so let us not be too hasty to label it as such.

Good day.

p/s: This is a good example on how information is often distorted by half-truths- indeed, ignorance continues to be the greatest bane upon mankind.
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written by sampalee, January 14, 2008 15:20:05
Religion arising from root word 're' and 'ligios' mean return to your true self[nature] is also what buddhism teaches.
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written by Thiru, January 14, 2008 17:01:00
Humans have a peculiar behaviour.As you say the right and wrong issue.or the good and bad thing. Its the same.

It is always the good who will decide who are going to be the bad.Hence there are no bad one but only decided by the good one.

And it is the way humans think too.Since they think they are good( even the the thugs think they are good and so they assualt someone they THINK is bad)it will become their standard of what is good.

GOT it.Now all the years of civilisation what have we learned? Major defect of humans is that they forget and so history repeats. Have you known anyone in history succeeding their schemes and plans . The more negative it is and more likely it will fall out soon .But humans are not going to learn. They will do it again. And so is religion aand other activities of human.

There is remedy though but it is difficult. Just THINK you are in a floating situation. where will you hold on to.DONT HOLD on to anything just float and keep moving. Just my thought.
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written by indianputra, January 14, 2008 20:59:41
JUst heard the news that Rajagopulu, Staste Assenbly man for Si Rusa, Port Dickson arrested by ACA. Anyone has more news on it?
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written by jaykay, January 15, 2008 00:20:01
Dear Raja Petra,

A very thought provoking article indeed but I beg to differ on the following point:

“Every religion, not only Islam, says it is right and that all the other religions are wrong”

Not all religion says that all other religions are wrong.

See what the Hindus say about other religion or people of other religion:

•'As the different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.'

•“I am the thread that runs through all these pearls," and each pearl is a religion or even a sect thereof. Such are the different pearls, and God is the thread that runs through all of them; most people, however, are entirely unconscious of it.

•Truth can be stated in a thousand different ways, yet each one can be true.

Hinduism teaches us that all religion lead to the same omnipotent and omnipresent god. Hinduism also teaches us to see god within oneself and other human being and all living creatures.

Hinduism never propagate that the truth is only in Hinduism or there is no truth in other relagion.




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written by notsosmart, January 15, 2008 00:21:12
If all human could just practise good moral, compassionate, and tolerant. We don't need religion to guide us. But as fact of life, most human are born selfish, and intolerant. That's why we must always be conscious about our behaviour and conduct towards others. One of the way is through religion.

In fact all religions pray to the same God. But their believes, approach and practise that's making the differences due to their geographical location. God doesn't exist only thousand years ago. God exist billion, or even trillion or even zillion years ago, even before the existence of human on our earth. If God exist years beyond our imagination, how could we be so sure and argue that my God or your is the right God. It is actually those leaders in religion ( with their personal agendas ) that causes these divisions. And the dumb and stupid blind believer just follows his teaching.

We should all stopped fighting over religion. God created us to live together, not divide. It's the selfish and cruel religious leaders that are dividing the world. Right and wrong is only our personal perception ( well said by RPK ) . But doing good not bad is the God's fundamental law that we should always be doing through His guidance.
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written by GA, January 15, 2008 01:56:45
I was recently introduced to a British Muslim academic who taught philosophy in Malaysia (UIA, I think) for a couple of years. He described Malaysians as very self-satisfied. And RKP, this article is brillliant: it points exactly to the fact that there is so little epistemic humility expressed in public spaces. We think we know best about everything, we are so certain in our convictions, that mostly the possibility doesn't even occur to us that we could be wrong.

But what is the value of our convictions, when we haven't examined how we got to our conclusions? As you point out, our convictions are largely the product of accidental factors: the family we were born into, the friends we hang out with, the teachers we had at school, etc. The ultimate failure of the Malaysian education system, I think, is its failure to encourage the habit of self-examination. And so we sit like frogs under our tempurung, blissfully ignorant. But really, this ignorance doesn't seem so blissful, because we have such little patience and time for people who have different beliefs. We get annoyed easily, we are impatient, and get stressed when others express differences in opinion (because of our attitude of being so unquestioningly convinced of our own ideas). Can we Malaysians say we are really happy? Has this ignorant self-satisfaction resulted in a richer, more meaningful life?

This article is a beacon of light in a place and time that seems so Dark. Thank you, RKP!
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written by Visinic, January 15, 2008 13:45:24
i don't mean to put u in the spotlight here rpk.....i was just wondering.....

this is a fictional scenario, any coincidences with any events or characters is purely unintentional...

if u come to know of a person who was muslim by birth but has recently converted into another faith, and that person informed u, as a muslim, what would u do?

i really hope u'll entertain this question......coz its been bugging me for a while now...
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written by Visinic, January 15, 2008 13:48:14
and i really don't wanna hear any dumb answers from any dumb a$$holes on this ........pleaseeeee
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written by Raja Petra, January 15, 2008 15:05:35
Dear Visinic, I know of more than 15 million Malaysian Muslims who were born a Muslim but are not following the tenets of the religion, though they may be performing the rituals of the religion, and I have already 'reported' them in my so many, many articles in the website.
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written by IpohBarat, January 15, 2008 15:43:57
GOD is the destination.
Religion is the route.
Some routes will take you to GOD fast.
Some routes will provide a comfortable journey.
Some routes might not even lead you to GOD.

No one knows which is the best route (religion) since none has taken all the routes.
We are all taking our routes with mere hope. Hoping it will lead us to GOD. Only at the end of our journey we will know the truth. Even if your route takes you to GOD, how sure other routes did not lead to GOD. May be other routes provide a much faster and comfortable journey.

So, don't be so pround of your route. And don't condemn other routes.
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written by harrbm, January 15, 2008 20:42:02

i see that some commentators here are doing just what YM RPK said in this article.
Right and Wrong. I wonder whether there are such things as NOT RIGHT AND NOT WRONG EITHER.


>
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written by harrbm, January 15, 2008 20:42:02

i see that some commentators here are doing just what YM RPK said in this article.
Right and Wrong. I wonder whether there are such things as NOT RIGHT AND NOT WRONG EITHER.


>
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written by The One, January 15, 2008 21:29:19
salam Raja Petra,
i really would like to know your respond on my 'little' article on January 13, 2008 | 02:29:34 (please search on top). i need to hear your side about it. i believe it contradicts to your relativity law in term of different point of view.
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written by GA, January 15, 2008 22:46:05
Just want to share a paragraph from a recent BBC feature article on the problem of intolerance and religious/racial divisions in our society:

>> One simple image conveys the divide.

On one side of a road, running through the low-rise tower blocks, I saw a Malaysian Indian making roti - thin fried bread - in a restaurant.

On the other side of the road, a Malay man was chopping chicken to order as a Malay woman in a he***carf selected fish from an ice-packed polystyrene box.

They live side by side but most people will tell you that they do not share their lives.
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written by GA, January 15, 2008 22:47:19
The link to the article mentioned above is: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor...178709.stm
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written by GA, January 15, 2008 22:50:10
I thought to mention this image because it is so ubiquitous and seemingly normal to us that we don't realise just how odd it actually is.
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written by Panca Indera, January 16, 2008 09:19:16
Dear Asamlaksa
It's so easy to label another person who doesn't believe in what you believe as ignorant and breeder of prejudice. isn't it?
Who is labeling?
The statement,” Ignorance breeds prejudice” is to me an absolute truth just as “Knowledge brings Understanding”, it apply to everything, unless you can prove otherwise.

Thanks until you got to ancestor worship which smells of sarcasm(another perception)
Is’nt there people out there who ancestor worship and make offering by the ro***ide?

His views become very narrow. He appears to be targeting a specific niche which are Muslims who are deemed misguided in his view.
From his website,”Harun Yahya's books are written with the main purpose of introducing Islam to those who are strangers to religion, and reconciling their hearts to the truth.”
Again, two different perceptions and values

This is like me asking what is the truth and you telling me that the truth is not the lie. it's real nice of you to tell me what is not rather than what is.

Proving a point by negation is an acceptable standard in the scientific world., unless theres is a need of explanation of truth itself(read previous articles).

The One, could you recognise Satan if he comes knocking on your door?

Yes!
Can you recognise Satan's teachings?
Yes!
Is faith a shield or a weakness?
Both!depending on how knowledgeable the person is.

As easily as humans manipulate faith for their own ends what more from the master deceiver?
I agree, its difficult and its better the devil you know then the devil you don’t. That’s why Allah gave you the guidance to keep on the straight and narrow.

Most times there is no absolutely right or wrong answer(agreed!)

and it's not the most important bit as I stated my my very first post on this article.
Once you got your basic/foundation absolutely right, Inshallah the rest will be easy.

I argue for my own benefit as stated above and I care little if people find me right or wrong.

Learn not to argue, but to debate using knowledge and logic, Inshallah you will prevail.

So whatever the topic, bring it on as long as I am still able to repl
I do not want to argue for argument sake.

Salam
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written by emg385, January 16, 2008 11:24:19
A vote for BN is a vote for UMNO and PM's ISLAM HANCURI policies.All Malaysians must REJECT BN to put an end to UMNO's antics & ISLAM HAN-CURI policies.Reject TALIBANISING of Malaysia by IMAM HAN-CURI and his fellow Mullahs!!!

P.S ISLAM HAN-CURI/=Hidden Agenda of Islam Hadhari
i.e.--body snatching of dead bodies from families,forced separation of mothers from their children in the name of religion,snatching of illustrated CHRISTIAN children's book because they offend MUSLIM sensitivities?!!,destruction of NON-Muslim places of worship to "balance" their numbers against MUSLIM places of worship,Copyrighting the Name of GOD for Malaysian Muslims,Destroying the NON-ISLAMIC past of Malays as if they were "ALLAH's" chosen RACE. Also calling for removal of Non-Muslim religious symbols eg Crosses,Statues from schools to wipe out any evidence of NON-Muslim faith in Malaysia suggest UMNO is becoming the NEW TALIBANS!!!

What's next??--Banning of all Cubic structures or children's toys because they resemble the HOLY CUBE that Muslim's face daily for their prayers(because it offends MUSLIMS), Copyrighting of words such as NABI, SEMBAHYANG, PUASA, KITAB, etc, Banning of Robes,Prayer Be***,Head scarf, Beards for any Non-Muslim so that they will not be mistaken for Muslims.( GOD may get confused!!)???

If a KHAFIR eats NON-HALAL food all his/her Life eg PORK and Alcohol, and later donates their organs upon Death, is it HALAL for Malay-MUSLIMS to receive these Organs into their bodies? If YES, isn't that Sheer HYPOCRISY??Anything is possible under ISLAM Han-Curi!!!
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written by Visinic, January 16, 2008 13:29:12
mmmm rpk..... smilies/wink.gif
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written by The learned one, January 17, 2008 08:34:06
Dear all,

We are all back in the Wild Wild West days ... literally !!!!

The modern day cowboys are the Malays in Malaysia ... with the 'lembu' and 'babi' being the Indians and Chinese respectively. The guns of the West have been replaced by RELIGION which is carried at the waist by the 'cowboys'. Ulamamks and Imams have a double holstered guns araound their waist ... by status. All cowboys like in the West 'herd up' the 'animals' and bahave totally uncivilised towards little girls and women. They get drunk and have brawls in saloons (in Malaysia ... it is the PWTC) from time to time. The cowboys live off the 'animals' by killing them ... eventually and ride into the sunset.
I guess the horse in this story must be Petronas and all the oil money.

So tell me .... how different are we now or have we progressed at all .... intelectually !!!


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written by Thomas47, January 17, 2008 20:37:01
Congratulations on the birth of your fourth grandchild and for producing this excellent article. Very frank and open minded.
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written by kooiseng, January 17, 2008 22:23:58
This is exactly why you cannot have a country run on religious laws, like the Sharia. That is the reason why countries must be governed by a secular government so that no religion imposes its will on another. Unfortunately Malaysia wants to do the opposite. The question now is, can it do it? Is it powerful enough to stamp on the other religions(and races) without castrotrophic consequences? My opinion is that it cannot, without committing suicide along the way. Now that the Muslims are very well off, they know that their houses will burn, their cars will burn, their shares will become worthless and their currency will become toilet paper if they should decide to do another May 13. They are now in a limbo - to carry on to destruction or back down. This is a hard choice. We will see what happens in the coming months.
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written by INSTINCT, January 18, 2008 00:43:38
I had just watched this very interesting movie "THE BRAVE ONE" with a tag line questioning us - "HOW MANY WRONGS TO MAKE IT RIGHT?". However, that was not what really touched me. I like the beginning - when a police officer was asking very politely during the course of his investigation duty, the bed-ridden victim (Erica Bain - Jodie foster act) about her attacker in the brutal incidence. When she replied almost spontaneously “I know you are all good guys but how come I don't feel it”.... there was a pause - the moment freeze awhile and immediately the plot changed.... ..– I guess what she had said has sum up my opinion towards the current image and perception of the ability of the police department in our country.
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written by Anak Desa, January 19, 2008 13:50:30
RPK,Congrats being the grandfather to the 4th kid. It is hard to discribe the good feeling being a grand father.Grand kids and grand father bonding is the best as anyone can see. Dirgha Sarva Bhavantu...
Good written article but since Chua was a cabinet minister and the rakyat look upon him, it is expected to him to maintain the dignity and protocol of position which he held before.Furthermore,no body shits and eat at the same place.
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written by Uncorruptible, January 19, 2008 22:54:59
WTV 8 - the free alternative MALAYSIAN tv

http://wwitv.com/portal.htm
http://wantena.com/html/pc/english/page/8.html,category=,channel_language=,country=,q=
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written by Semuaok, January 20, 2008 02:05:46
Trust me Allah is on your side. You loose a friend and got a grandchild. Congratulation. I'm still trying to locate my God. He still hasn't show up or maybe he just change his name to Allah. Alamak
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written by Presiden Mesia, January 21, 2008 12:03:15
RPK,

There is only islam will be accepted by Allah...
The rest religion will be rejected...

3:85 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

Syukur to Allah and Prophet Muhammad s.a.w..
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written by Tompios, January 26, 2008 05:28:58
written by Presiden Mesia, January 21, 2008 | 12:03:15
3:85 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

Hello u people! Islam means submission to Allah (God). You are wrong President Mesia. Don't you know how many in this world submit their life to God? Islam Mohammad is not the only one relgion who submit herself to God. Islam not be long exclusively to Mohammadian. Islam belong to everybody who believe in God the Creator Who submit themselves to God.

Do not be so paranoid Moslem.
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written by alee, January 29, 2008 03:40:19
Election is imminent. We as Malaysian who love this country must do something to save this country from destruction by the corrupt politicians.

CAllING ALL REadERS OF MT,let's use SMS to spread the education. We should take the important points from MT articles, condense them into SMS and send out chain SMS. We should have all all language versions. Encourage everyone to send to everyone else.

We must reach out to all Malaysians, especially the people in the kampongs and new villages !! Let's start today !! Can anyone start posting those SMS in MT so everyone can use ?
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written by Presiden Mesia, January 30, 2008 12:16:10
Written by Tompios,
Hello u people! Islam means submission to Allah (God). You are wrong President Mesia. Don't you know how many in this world submit their life to God? Islam Mohammad is not the only one relgion who submit herself to God. Islam not be long exclusively to Mohammadian. Islam belong to everybody who believe in God the Creator Who submit themselves to God.

Do not be so paranoid Moslem.

Only Islam will be accepted. From Prophet adam to Muhammad followers are muslims...Submit to Allah only and don't associate it with other gods...
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