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This is something funny for me. a new "Everybody loves Allah" sitcom will be on show soon!!

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Votes: +18

"It is basically a birth right to use the word 'Allah' because it is the only word for God in the Malay language," The Herald's editor, Rev. Lawrence Andrew, told The Associated Press."

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Correct me if im wrong, but isnt the malay word for god, 'tuhan'. Although I think this is a non issue as yes 'Allah' also means god. Just want to get it right. In any case, I dont think 'Allah' is a malay word. 'Allah' is a word used by muslims and other religions before islam to refer to god.

This UNMO monkeys have got nothing better to do. Can the indians demand that the malays are not allowed to use words such as 'raja', menteri, perdana and many others which are actually sanskrit, hindi and words from other indian dialects. Would the UNMO monkeys agree to this.

Stupid dumb asses, seems they have nothing better to do. Instead of running the country, they are arguing who has the right to use the word 'allah'. No wonder the country is going to the dogs.

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Votes: +82

You'll be able to use the word "ALLAH" when PR comes to power.

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Votes: +38

Didn't I mention before that the Word Allah, originated from a Sanskrit Word? It's smilies are Akka and Amba, which transalates into . The Christians may be historically "right" to use this Word, But definitely Theologically WRONG.

Unless SIB staff have NOT been reading your email, coz I've sent this to you since the subject first appeared in the Newspapers months ago. I have Sanskrit Transalators waiting to show this to you.

What is wrong with Christians in Malaysia today? Have you NO concept of History? Has BLIND Faith Caused you to have Cataracts? Or the things you think that you are "Correctly" advocating for?

Even if Christian Groups vote this post down, and I'm very sure they will. Google Allah, Sanskrit, Hindu, Mecca and see what you get. The history of the region is not to be played-a-fool with. This is NOT A JOKE !!! (I never have with History)

Otherwise, leave this post "unvoted", so that everyone may do their own searches. Your choice. I'd Be more than Happy to eat the humble pie if I'm Wrong

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Votes: -18

Dear RPK,
Do you think this is The Thing now? God is one and we all can call him God in our own language, be it chinese, tamil, malay or other language. I believe muslims in other part of the world are very understanding towards this issue.
Why do we have to make this a biggest fuse over this ISSUE now? ( Are they trying to split the nations with religion issues) Why confuse people with this word of ALLAH.. If my child is educated in Malay School, how do you want him to refer to God? In Chinese or in Tamil.. This sound very silly and silly to all...

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Votes: +12

GOD must be shaking his head now.

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Votes: +26

Allah is an arabic term for God as in La Ilaaha illa Allah (There is no god but The God)

IN the quran there are already countless verses relating to Nazarenes (Christians, Catholics as they have their eventual denominations) and Jews where the language and term used all say 'Allah'. There is even one quranic ayat that says that "when the non believers are asked who is their god is, and they say 'Allah' too" to indicate The Quranic teaching of the difference between their perceptions of God and not the issue with the name calling.

I think the above ban cannot be relating to the Pusat Islam or the rightful authority concern of the wrongful interpretation or perception of that term. Other than that it is better that the authorities give a rational explaination as non-muslims are allowed in the Quran to use such a term.

I embraced Islam due to my awe of it been an open, liberal and rational faith. I am speaking out here, because such a proposed ban gives the impression that it is not.

Thus, hmm, the only reason I can think of is that the authorities are worried that the muslims themselves will be misled and attracted to the Catholic faith as they may not distinguished the difference in perceptions towards Allah here. If so, it is the education of the muslims themselves which the quranic verses i m refering to have been doing for 1428 years since it came down for that purpose.

Thus i think the Quran and the True Allah (Allahal Haq) can speak for itself best than all the banning in the world.

At the end of ayatul kursi is the famous verse that means, "There is no compulsion in the faith, as light comes and remove all darkness".

Redhuan D. Oon
http://padi-malaysia.blogspot.com/

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Votes: +26

Indonesia don't have problem with Bibles using "Allah" word.

Wikipedia -

Allah is the standard Arabic word for "God".[1] While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God".[2][1][3] The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.[4]

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Votes: +31

michael chick, I'm not going to argue if you are right or wrong or historically correct or wrong, neither the real meaning of the translated word from Sanskrit.

From a common sense point of view; Local Christians have been using the word 'Allah' to refer to God in prayers and biblical versus, and this has been going on for ages, especially in East Malaysia, where Bahasa Malaysia is the main medium of communication and furthermore, there is a high concentration of Christians there.

To suddenly wake up one morning, 50 years later into Malaysia's independence and decide that the world Allah is reserved for the Muslims and Christians can not use it is just plain absurd. Someone obviously switched off his/her brains in making that call. That is why, this episode is silly.

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Votes: +49

The only 2 words that belong to the malay language is Api and Asap. Anybody care to debate. I guess god must be trying to figure out what is all the fuss about.aren't all living things are his creatons of are there other gods at work .My point is that all religions are saying their god in the only god, then what is the hell is happening god here god there and kiling in the name of their god.God can do a better job if god wants to rid or shorten anybodys life. Do you all think god needs help from us to do his job. That is why god has not come down and communicated with us as he will know either they will enslave him

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Thank You Petestop. This would be the first pointer to the Sanskrit Origins of the Word Allah that I have been incessantly talking about. Anyone else can give a rebuttal? A HISTORICAL rebuttal? and NOT and emotional rebuttal please?

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Votes: -4

Thank You Krepot for your input. I have also "bombarded" christians in East Malaysia circa 2 years ago when I first heard them use the word Allah. It is inappropriate for the Christian Religion to use this word.

But I do agree with you in general on what you penned.

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Votes: -13

And to Futureman, I believe it was Zaaba who penned that the 3 original words, were "Saya", "Padi", and "Babi". I could have remembered wrongly, but to my best knowledge that is true and accurate.

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haha.. go ask Xi as the Gods must be crazy.
Maybe our court will find the answer in a Coca Cola bottle.

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Or maybe it was in the Hikayat Abdullah. I forget exactly whowrote it. Anyone can remember please pen it down for us. Thanx

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Votes: -6

Better if we know "who" in the said governmnet makes the ruling and from whence he/she derives the authority to ban words!

Anyway, maybe the church should print the State song for Negri Sembilan and see what he says.

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For what its worth...for all the christians..We are made in his image.be humble like him..coz if we are made in his image means we are demi gods..so we should continue to show these other demi gods that we all link together as one , so be humble.

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Votes: -1

Frankly speaking UMNO never did have any religious conscience or concerns at all unlike PAS. The last desperate attempt of cringing power using religion to impress Muslim Malays to continue voting them in.

Easiest way which was previously perceived not an issue is just to do away with the use of Allah from other religious reference, to show PAS that they too are concerned or contributing to the Muslim faith, a very poor effort that only would fool the minority of weak practicing Muslim out of the Muslim Majority!

RC!

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Votes: +5

"It is basically a birth right to use the word 'Allah' because it is the only word for God in the Malay language," The Herald's editor, Rev. Lawrence Andrew, told The Associated Press."

___________

For ages in Malaysia or even when it was called Malaya, the word used is TUHAN by other religions when referring to God. Yes, Allah was a word referring to God in the Arabic language. And the Christian Arabs used the same also. No doubt also that the God referred are the same God both in Quran and Bible. So why are this Reverence says that "Allah is the only word for God in the Malay language."

But when the word was used for centuries by the Muslim in this country, and the word TUHAN for other religions, why must it suddenly being pushed that the word must be the same now? What is the agenda? What is the goal the Christian wish to achieve? To make it easier to convert Malays to Christianity?

I've seen a group of well-known and prominent figure whom are Malays perform their prayers like fellow Moslem with Arab recital, call God Allah, but however, they are actually are Christians as there are Surah such as Surah Ibu Mariam, extended version of Fateha and the glorification of al Masehi which is worded in Arabic.

And those who are naive followers will follow because they think it is part of a tareqat ritual. bear in mind most Malays knows how to recite the Quran but know nuts about the meaning. This weaknesses can be exploited to steer the Moslems from practising their belief correctly. BTW this happen in 1999 and the organization went underground when it was exposed to the intelligence and some of the leaders arrested but charged with different case. Meanwhile the big fish still living happily even though they are already exposed. And since this is a feel good country, it was never highlighted in the Press.

Morale: Since most Malays are kinda naive, it's better to segregate the word to TUHAN and ALLAH for now. The more pressing issue is to ensure whoever lead the coming government put an effort so the RAKYAT can live peacefully and with tolerance with each others regardless of he/she is Muslims, Christians, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh etc etc etc.

My many cents worth.

-bob

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Votes: -7

Interesting topic and issue at hand here... let's make things much simpler, folks...
in making the world a better place, time and time again, we need to adapt to changes, no complain about that... but in doing so, sometimes, even on things which are legally right, we need to tolerate and respect others... in this case, we al know that the muslims had been using the term "Allah" in referrence to their only GOD (do you know that, no matter where you go in the world, muslims use this same name to refer to their God? in sync)... why don't everyone just respect it as such... leave it to them... Christians had been all along using the name LORD (ever since Christian and Bible had been dominantly spread in English language)...
Malaysian Christians, i guess, would have no problem with the use of LORD or Tuhan (with a capital T) at all...

just an opinion...

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allah is very common word refering to god in many catholic churches that conduct malay masses to better communicate with the people who speaks better malay, example the natives in east msia.

personal experience, i went to s'wak churches and jb churches, allah was used to refer to god in the malay masses.

it's also being used in indonesia's churches. my indo christian friends refer to god as allah in bahasa indo. so if indonesia, the world's most populated muslims country is using allah then what's the big deal for msia which merely 12% population of indonesia??

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Votes: +1

hm....... if 'ALLAH' is the only term for god in malay, then can someone please explain what does 'TUHAN' means? i tot they are both the same

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Votes: +3

askm,
christians should be allowed to use the word allah .
the more they say it the more they will beleive it.
insyaallah..

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Votes: -9

Use of "Allah" by Catholics (Part 2)

In Malaysia, Malays are synonymous with the faith of Islam. The Christians here are part of a worldwide movement intent on converting Muslims to Christianity. They are however hampered by the social contract (The Federal Constitution) entered into amongst the various races here at the time of independence where it imposes restraints on other religions being preached to Muslims.

The Christians however have their agenda to fulfil and obviously one of the means to reach Malay-Muslims is by publishing material in the Malay language and using terms that the Muslims are familiar with like "Allah". They obviously hope that the less-informed and less-learned Muslims may be confused by the use of such terms.

There have been instances previously where Christian material using words like "Allah", "Alhamdulillah","Subahanallah", "ibadat" and others have been found distributed at primary schools targeting Malay-Muslim pupils in an attempt to confuse them and to lead them towards Christianity. This is in defiance of the provisions of the social contract(Federal Constitution) and a gross attempt at deceit. When it suits them they quote that social contract for their rights, and at the same time abuse it when they can.

Muslims should be on their guard against such attempts at deceit. Perhaps if they still insist on using "Allah" in thier publications, permission could be given provided the Church in their prayers pray to "Allah".

Often times we have been taught and told that the character of an act is determined by its underlying intent. Hence an act may upon examination of its intent be found to be quite different from what it appears to be. Hence the Catholics wanting to use the word "Allah" in their publications may seem innocent enough, but when the intent behind it is considered in the light of their grand agenda to convert Muslims in defiance of the provisions of the Federal Constitution and law, then surely they should not be allowed to pursue this course.

In their hypocritical way, the Church and Christian writers have countless times abused "Allah". They have referred to "Allah" as the "Moon God". A quick search on any search-engine online will reveal that.

Here is an excerpt from http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Islamic Muslim/moon_god.htm.:

"The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the Biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the Biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in Biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters."

The Christians have to answer: Is the Moon-god then what they mean by Allah in their wanting to publish "Allah" in their material? Is this what they are fighting for? Is the Moon-god their god? Are they trying to reach out to their followers to worship the Moon-god?

This is an update:

On 29th March, 2008 at an interfaith forum held at Hotel Singgahsana, Petaling Jaya I publicly invited a forum-panelist, Bruno Pereira, who is a Catholic priest, to recite together with me "There is no God but Allah". He declined stating that there are differences in thelogical understanding. To me this was a litmus test of their sincerity in their wish to use "Allah" in their publications.

If they cannot even recite that there is no God but Allah, then they have no business using "Allah" in their publications.

I therefore urge all Muslims to invite Catholics at suitable public occasions to recite aloud "There is no God but Allah" to show up their deceit in this matter.

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Votes: -9

Many of my frens are Christians, They seems have no problem. Mandarin do not use Allah. They use "JU" (Lord), "Xen"(God), "YESUJIDU" (Lord Jesus Christ), Jehovah.

As for my other Christian friends using English word, "Heavenly Father", "Almighty God", "Lord Jesus Christ", "Lord God". etc I search the database of the entire Bible in English (King James version 1611) and Mandarin (directly translated using King James 1611 version) - there is no such word as Allah in the Bible.

In the translation from English to Malay, "KAMUS DEWAN" : God = Tuhan (in Islam - Allah). I guess the expert in Bahasa Melayu should clarify, which is the right word to use in Bahasa Melayu. If Kamus Dewan is correct, the direct translation should be Tuhan and not Allah.

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Votes: +4

"Ethnic Malays — who are legally required to be Muslim.. "

That is just sad isn't it?

http://sactyr.blogspot.com

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Votes: +5

grandmarquis,

Christians in Sabah & Sarawak & Indonesia uses "Allah" all the time, so calling God "Allah" would be as natural as taking a breath to them. Because, this is the language that they have been using for centuries.
As does Christians in the Middle East who uses the Arabic language.

Lest everyone forgets there are sizable number of Palestinian Christian as well
and Bethlehem, the birth place of Jesus, is actually in Palestine and also under the same siege by Israel. And some of the suicide bombers are actually Christians, though our local media only puts an Islamic spin on news from Palestine.
So, don't confuse the Palestinian political struggle with a religious struggle,
though it is a convenient unifying political tool.

However, for the rest of Christians, as described on Wikipedia, "Allah" is more used as reference (by the West) to the Muslim God, so, indeed, there would be difficulty for them to use the word "Allah" naturally.

In fact, Christianity believes in the Trinity... a 3-in-1 God, if you prefer...
and we would profess "We believe in God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit" but that is another theological discussion for another time.

Thus the Reverend Bruno Pereira is correct to state that there are differences in theological understanding of the Abrahamic profession of "There is no other God but God".

Abraham or Ibrahim is the first to profess this, and the Abrahamic faith like
Judaism, Christianity and Islam (in the time order) have the same root in this monotheism as first professed by Abraham.

So, I think to accuse Christians of deceit, I think you are going overboad.

If Muslims faith is such a strong one, why then would you worry about Christians trying to convert you ? As your writings implies there is some sinister plan to it.

I'm a half-past-six Christian and they can't even get me to be "more" Christian...ha..ha... I'm comfortable with where I am... that's enough for me and between me and God.

That is the essence of freedom of religion, you make your own choice based on your conscience and if you make the wrong one, well, that is between you and thy maker. Not some human who claims to have authority from God to come and judge you.

So let's just state it openly, it is the duty of a Christian or a Muslim to spread their religion... nothing secretive about it, so, you don't have to put a sinister spin to it.

There is no "social contract" on this either, at least I did'nt sign it.
Neither do I see anything stated in the Malaysia Constitution that forbids evangelising to Muslims and vice versa.

That said, there maybe other laws enacted afterwards... perhaps indeed some people may need this protection ?

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Votes: +8

The word "ALLAH" is mainly used by the Sabahans and the Sarawakians Bumi Christians, if UMNO really want to ban the use of "ALLAH" by the Christians.
They should also ban the Christians there from speaking Bahasa Malyaysia and also to ban them from study in the National Schools where the medium is in Bahasa Malaysia.

please bring back the "ENGLISH SCHOOLS" so that the Christians can read their Bible in English.

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Btw, grandmarquis, if using your logic.

Would'nt Christians in Sabah, Sarawak and Indonesia be worried that they be confused and converted to Islam because they use "Allah" all the time ?

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Votes: +5

Aler! So fragile!

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Languages are learned, it is not a birth right.

Languages are not a sole domain of a group of people.

A language is meant to bridge gaps and pass on knowledge.

Can a language be a sole domain of a group? Can a group claim ownership of certain words in a language and decide who has the right to use said words? Can any group own a language? Can a language be patented or copyrighted?

How should I sing my state anthem when it comes to the word Allah? Should I go "beep, beep!" ?

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Votes: -2

Aiya, what is the difference between "Allah" and "Tuhan" lah? If the government says non-muslims should not use the word "Allah" so be it. Use the word "Tuhan" then. Its a closer word to the Malay language then the word "Allah" which is more Arabic. We are not in Arabia. We have more important issues to address instead of clashing swords over this. I really dont understand what this fuss is all about. The Government is only drawing a circle to limit the human thought, why defy that? "Tuhan" is a lot more original Malay word than "Allah" is. We are all getting very confused about race, culture and religion. Broaden your understanding instead of drawing more circles and limiting your thought process further.

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Votes: +2

Come on everybody especially Christians since you all want to use the word so much.

Recite this loudly. "THERE IS NO OTHER GODS BUT ALLAH"







Can't hear you......









"THERE IS NO OTHER GODS BUT ALLAH"

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Votes: +4

According to the Bible, the Word of God - Christians are to be submissive to the laws of the land. That is King James version 1611.

I am standing on a neutral ground. To challenge authority over the word "Tuhan" and "Allah" is not a wise thing to do. Whether it is BN or PR administration, regardless whether I am a Christian or a Muslim, I strongly believe the word "Tuhan" is to be used. We are not Arabia. We are Malaysian.

And finally, I hardly see Christians oppose any government in any country in this world. Christians putting their faith in God. To the extend even (books) Bibles were robbed from school, persecuted by government, etc. They just have faith in God.

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Votes: +2

Ya-lah why hyjack other people language. "Tuhan" for Malay or Bahasa is precise enough to indicate God. "Allah" is Arabic in origin and unless you want to pray to Muslim God than use it. Or if you want to pray to a Unitarian God, Allah is appropriate. But if you pray to the Trinitarian God don't confuse people-lah because Allah is not split into three or is not three in one.

What is so difficult to use Tuhan? Don't encroach into other people usage of specific word whic is sacred and also sensitive. Tak tahu malu ka?

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Votes: -2

Since Christians consider Jesus is God than use the word Jesus-lah. It is more affectionate to call God by his name that Christians are taught. You can use Tuhan to indicate the Father and Ruh Kudus the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost. Why suddenly want to turn Arabic.
For Muslims, Allah is used because the prayers are in Arabic. Christian where got Arabic origin?
Allah is not that really universal as many have argued. West Malaysian Christians would not use Allah except for those originate from Sabah and Sarawak. Arab speaking Christians only say Allah when talking to Muslims about God out of respect. Catholics around the world consider the word Allah is specific to Muslim religion. Only Indonesia, Sabah and Sarawak Christians use Allah. And Sabah and Sarawak Catholics use Tuhan because they use Indonesian Bible and not through ages of historical tradition.

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"And Sabah and Sarawak Catholics use Tuhan because they use Indonesian Bible and not through ages of historical tradition"

My apology, the word "Tuhan" here is to be read as "Allah"

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Votes: -2

UMNO is merely use Allah to achieve its own ends. They are mostly a bunch of immoral crooks who hide behind Islam to commit crimes and sins of description too corrupt and filthy to describe here in Malaysia Today.

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Votes: +0

Agree to Petestop & Alacarte.

Chanraj & to the rest,

The issue here may not affect most Christians or Catholics in Peninsular but those in East Malaysia particularly . Those English, Tamil and Chinese speaking Christians who're from Peninsular may wonder what's so big deal about this because it doesn't affect them at all actually. Never forget also in Peninsular itself, it does affect a smaller group of minority Orang Asli Christians.

Why do I say this ? Please take note that East Malaysians, Indonesians and even our local Orang Asli here, mostly speak Malay. Therefore, it is only logical that they have their religious Christian services in the Malay language and not English, Mandarin or Tamil like the other Christians who're not affected by this problem (though they share the issue in hand as part of their struggle in becoming a Christian here in Malaysia).

In KL and certain states over the last 10-12 years, several churches have conducted special sunday services in Malay for those East Malaysians and Indonesians who've migrated here in large numbers and also for the local orang asli community. So even in the Malay services here in Peninsular, the use of the word Allah continues.

The services I meant here does not restrict to prayer or rituals only but in songs / hymns as well. Many of the Malay Christian songs have the word Allah in it as well so to remove them or change it to Tuhan or whatever other word would leave the prayer or song look strange or absurd in its flow or in the practical point of view for those who've been praying in the Malay language for many years... but of course this may be the case to those who do not use the Malay language and may say why and what's the big fuss about this issue.

Please take note that most Christians services that use Malay language fully incorporate the word ALLAH and this has become part of their lives. This has been in practice for ages as Christians in East Malaysia or Indonesia could have emulated the middle east Christians in using the word Allah in their service and it is believed that Indonesia commenced the use of it before the East Malaysians.

Take note also that most of the Christian resource materials in Malaysia including the Bible are mostly coming from Indonesia (since in Malaysia the Home Ministry has banned the printing of Bibles in Malay). So if you want to ban Malaysian Christians alone on the use of the word Allah, why not the BN government led by UMNO suggest to the United Nations that Indonesia and the whole world also ban Christians altogether from using the word Allah on a consistent basis ?

I can bet that this soon will be a laughing stock to the world as though it gives an impression that Malaysia Muslims led by UMNO are much more 'holier' than the rest of the Muslims worldwide and only they can make such changes to the religion world...

Even Muslims in other countries and the middle east agree that the word Allah that is being used by Christians is also the same Allah referring to the one and only "God" the Creator of mankind and universe as what we all know. Since this has been the practice for many years, why now only harp on the issue and planning to undo something which has become a 'human right' now for of a certain population of the citizen ?

Furthermore, history shows that the word Allah existed even before the existence of the Muslim religion and is being used by the Christians in the middle east as well.

Now out of the blue, here comes a superhero called "UMNO" who wants to claim credit by telling the whole world that Allah actually belongs to Muslims only. Don't they know that by doing this it will only make us all in Malaysia look like stupid morons as they're only putting Malaysia into shame by giving an impression to the world how 'shallow' minded and less educated the people of Malaysia are ?

Please take note, the issue here is not about whether should use Allah or Tuhan or whatever but the issue here is defending against one's principle believes and rights which have been in place since for centuries.

For more references about the issue, kindly refer to the an article written by RPK himself once if I'm not mistaken (can't recall the title...someone please help me on this... he he) and the report of the dialogue between the PAS MP, Khalid Abd Samad with the Catholics at at the church in Shah Alam recently.

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