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A storm in a songkok PDF Print E-mail
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Sunday, 16 March 2008 13:34

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When PAS took over Kelantan in 1990, the state had debts of almost RM700 million. Today, after 18 years, Kelantan's debts are only RM11 million, which is actually just the interest on the loans and which the federal government is squeezing from the state -- the loan amount has all been repaid long ago.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

My latest piece in The Corridors of Power, Small things please small minds, appears to have attracted a lively debate. But the debate is focused only on the part about non-Malays, in particular from DAP, refusing to wear a songkok when having an audience with the Rulers, even if that audience involves getting sworn in as a State Assemblyman or State EXCO Member. This is Teng Chang Khim's latest post in his Blog in reply to my comment in that article. I have also published an earlier posting from his Blog dated 25 July 2006 plus a piece from The Star dated 11 August 2007.

 

Beware of the BN controlled media

Yes, I forgot to remind Raja Petra and his readers. Please beware of the BN-controlled media for digging up and pitting the old issues, including the songkok issue, against us.

Seek clarification among us, since we are in the same boat, before putting anything into writing. That will help to reduce unnecessary controversy.

Teng Chang Khim, Sunday, 15 March 2008

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DAP Sarawak roars

Proceedings in the Sarawak State Assembly has certainly turned lively with the emergence of the DAP 6 elected representatives.

The Sin Chew Jit Poh reported today that the 6 DAP representatives refused to wear the ceremonial dress, commonly known as No. 1 suit, while attending the opening ceremony of the assembly yesterday.

It has been the DAP policy not to wear the No. 1 suit which comes with a songkok. I have never worn one since 1995.

I had even protested when the invitation cards to attend the swearing in ceremony of Tan Sri Abu Hassan Omar as the Selangor Menteri Besar at Alam Shah palace in 1997 stated, unprecedentedly, that all the guests were required to wear songkok. Upon my protest, the directive was withdrawn.

However, the palace had later again imposed the ruling after the present Sultan came to the throne. Since then, I had never attended any official functions that required the wearing of songkok.

Teng Chang Khim, Tuesday, 25 July 2006

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Songkok ruling for Perlis honours recipients

THE Perlis Government has made it compulsory for non-Malays to wear a songkok when attending the investiture ceremony in conjunction with the Raja of Perlis' birthday, reported Nanyang Siang Pau.

The daily said that Chinese association and political party leaders who were honoured were caught in an awkward situation, and that some had declined to receive their titles at Istana Arau.

According to the newspaper, this was the first time such a rule was implemented. Those honoured had received the invitation and a letter that stated the requirement when attending the ceremony.

The Star, Saturday, 11 August 2007

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To be fair, not all DAP members abide by the anti-songkok party 'ruling' so it would be unfair of me to whack all DAP members and leaders across the board. The DAP Selangor Secretary, Lau Weng San, defied that ruling and did wear a songkok and some DAP veterans who resented Lau's action, which they view as 'trying to become a Malay' and 'selling out the Chinese', whacked him to kingdom come. Lau was brave enough to do what he thought was the right thing to do but had to suffer a tongue lashing from his fellow DAP members. He, however, just licked his wounds without any protest and chalked it up as just one of things.

Okay, if DAP has now modified its stand since it is no longer in the opposition when it first opposed the songkok ruling and now, since it is the government, it would like to tone down its anti-songkok stance, that would indeed be a most welcome move. But let us move on and look at the other points in my piece which no one has thus far talked about.

The four new states under opposition control -- Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor -- are soon going to join Kelantan in being starved of cash. The people of Kelantan endured 18 long years and it appears like they are prepared to face another 18 years without money and with little development. Terengganu, which has the same racial make-up and which fell to the opposition in 1999, lasted only one term under opposition control. In 2004, the state went back to Umno-Barisan Nasional and has remained under ruling coalition control ever since. In spite of the 8 March 2008 political Tsunami which hit most parts of the county, Terengganu did not shift. Umno-Barisan Nasional managed to keep the state and prevented the Tsunami from entering its borders.

That is a more important issue than whether non-Malays should wear a songkok or not. So, if DAP no longer wants to make the headgear matter an issue, then well and good. But that still does not address the matter of: when will the State EXCO be sworn in, who are those in the State EXCO, what portfolios will they hold, have PKR, DAP, and PAS come to an agreement on how many EXCO positions each of the three parties will get, what additional portfolios will the Selangor Menteri Besar get and are his portfolios too little or too many?

And even more important: what is the budget required to run the state to ensure that the operational costs, salaries, loans, etc. can be serviced?

When PAS took over Kelantan in 1990, the state had debts of almost RM700 million. Today, after 18 years, Kelantan's debts are only RM11 million, which is actually just the interest on the loans and which the federal government is squeezing from the state -- the loan amount has all been repaid long ago. And they achieved this without any federal funding. On top of that, the PAS Kelantan government also managed to pay all their operational costs and salaries. No one was retrenched or suffered a salary cut except for the State Assemblymen who are paid just RM3,000 per month, way below what the other states are paying their Assemblymen.

When PAS took Terengganu in 1999, the operational cost, salaries, etc., totalled RM600 million a year. A few months later the federal government withdrew the 5% Oil Royalty of RM800 million a year (now it is about RM1 billion). With the loss of this Oil Royalty, Terengganu's income got reduced from more than RM1 billion to just RM300 million a year. But it's operational cost was double that, RM600 million a year. So how to cover the RM600 million cost with the RM300 million income?

Terengganu slashed its RM600 million expenditure to RM300 million so that it could make ends meet. On top of that, they abolished the toll on the Terengganu Bridge, they abolished cukai pintu (house assessment), and they introduced a welfare system for the poor and needy so that no family living below the poverty level needs to become destitute. Of course, with this type of economic programme, and with the massive federal loans incurred by the previous Umno government also to be serviced, there was absolutely no mega-developments in the state. Unfortunately, the Terengganu citizens are not as degil as the Kelantanese, and in 2004 they decided to give the state back to Umno just so that they could again see development.

As soon as Umno took over in 2004, the Terengganu government reintroduced cukai pintu (they in fact tried to claim the 'back taxes' which had been waived by the previous PAS government but because of wide protests the government abandoned the idea) and now spends RM1 billion a year on frivolous and wasteful projects plus another RM1 billion or so on 'expenses'.

What are we going to see in Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor? Have the new state governments sat down to crunch the figures? Without federal funding, how much money is at the disposal of the states? How much does it cost to run these states and is the income, in the absence of federal funding, enough to pay the cost of running these states?

No, wearing a songkok on your head is not going to solve all these problems. You can even wear a songkok to bed and to the toilet and still you will never be able to balance a deficit budget. We need to know whether we have a government yet in Selangor, the most important of the five states under opposition control, and whether this new government has got its act together and knows what to do. We do not want in five years' time the citizens of Selangor do what the citizens of Terengganu did in 2004, give the state back to Umno-Barisan Nasional because they would rather have federal funding than a clean and efficient government.

Kelantanese are Kelantanese. Even Terengganu can't tahan like Kelantan. Come the next election, will the citizens of Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor act like the Kelantanese or like those from Terengganu? That is what needs to be addressed and can only be addressed once we stop squabbling over how many EXCO positions each party should get and instead get down to running the states.

Comments (191)Add Comment
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written by sampalee, March 16, 2008 13:47:19
The songkok issue is dead and done with,get on to the real business on the job given by us [rakyat].Run the state with care and responsibilities.If the fedarak govt resort to unfair pressue,we the BOSS will come up and assist you.
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written by Heikal, March 16, 2008 13:54:04
Since Barisan Rakyat states wont get any federal funding, then Kelantan, Kedah, Penang, Perak, Selangor, Kuala Lumpur might as well form together and become an independant nation/state. Since the central government is not going to give us developemnet projects, why shoul BR states rakyat pay taxes to them. BR had conquered the imporatant states in Malaysia, Kedah-most rice come from there, Penang and Selangor-the country's major indutrial hub and main gateway to the country(port), Kuala Lumpur-most companies in Malaysia is based there. If we can just separate us from UMNOsia the people on other states will suffer hunger due to Perlis is te only one giving them rice, and Johor is probably the only UMNOsia state that will survive.

Do not worry about Sabah and Sarawak, the oil is going to run soon anyway.
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written by Chuan, March 16, 2008 13:58:29
Yes, it will be much more interesting and constructive to look at how the new government is going to solve the funding issues.

Show the rakyat you are serious about shaping the future of fellow Malaysians, which is why your party has existed in the first place.

Remember, we are not just the BOSS, but we are a CUSTOMER as well, and a very fussy one at that!
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written by fireduck, March 16, 2008 14:04:03
What's the significance of the songkok, anyway? We voluntarily put on baseball cap, cowboy hat, etc., but if the songkok is just part of the official dress code, then go with the flow. No big deal. But if there are more to it, can someone enlighten us on the significance or the connotations, please?

I agree that there are much more important issues to be dealt with than the songkok issue.

Now, what I want to ask is this. Can the federal govt really withhold funding to the state govts? Is that legal? If that is possible, than can the rakyat choose not to pay federal taxes, but instead pay to the state? Serious questions here. While I was working in the US, I had to pay federal taxes, AND state taxes. But I get a rebate from the federal govt when I submit the amount of state tax that I pay. Perhaps we should push for this then.

And if the federal govt withhold the funding, then may I know what they are going to do with the 'extra' money in the federal coffers? I know what some of you will jumo up and say .... ha, its a loaded question.

If the federal does this to Selangor, Penang, and the other 3 states, I say we rakyat will have to work harder come the next election, and not just deny the 2/3 again, but deny the BN the majority. Period!

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written by krising1, March 16, 2008 14:16:16
Denying federal funds to the Democratic Corridor means that the rakyat is being punished for exercising their legitimate democratic rights. Make that an issue in the next election, whenever that happens. Bukan dia punya bapa punya duit!

Pak Bodoh's talk to respect the democratic will of the rakyat and heal the rift means nothing if federal funding is denied to the states in the Democratic corridor.

The MB of Negri Sembilan also said that he will not stop funding to the opposition constituencies. If he keeps his word, I will have more respect for him than previously when I dismissed him as mercedes salesman.

So let us wait and see. When DSAI comes to Parliament, we might see a few kataks from the land below the wind jumping to changes sides.

It is also not far fetched if the MCA and MIC MPs switched sides. If they are clever and really want to serve their constitunents, thats the way to go!
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written by temenggong, March 16, 2008 14:16:52
Songkok issue should be left to the individual's preferences, as long as he wears a suit, baju melayu, chinese suit or indian nehru suit. Let us reflect our culture which is multi cultural and not monocultural as BN made it to be. All state events where the sultan is in attendance should have kompang and anglung, plus chinese lion dance, shaolin drums, indian nadesvaram and melam drums, sumazau and kulintangan ensembles, ngajat sapek and agung ensembles, as part of welcoming and performace ceremonies.

Luckily all the 5 opposition states do not have the resource-curse like Trengganu. There should be no problem for all these 5 states to balance their budgets plus save on wasteful expenditure. We could probably save RM 50 million from wasteful projects in Selangor alone. No more wasteful trips and seminars. Existing federal loans could be a problem though and has to be worked out.

Since bank interest rates are low there is no reason why these states cannot borrow some modest amounts to fund infrastructure and projects that repays immediately. The repayments could cover the loan. For instance these states could open up land for vegetables, flowers and fruits cultivation just like the Felda Scheme and repayment could be immediate within a year.

To win the people over quit rent could be abolished and assessments stayed. Corporate sponsorships should be sought for specific events.
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written by Jhimsi, March 16, 2008 14:24:13
Dear RPK,

I am glad you wrote this article. As of late, your site has become a hate site for the Lim father and son and the DAP.

I was wondering when are we the BR going to discuss more on the 'bread and butter' issues.

I am sure Husam Musa has something to do with this article. God bless Husam Musa.
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written by Jarratt, March 16, 2008 14:26:31
Word.

This is time for meaningful, tangible, concrete actions. It's not time for the opposition to engage in the debate of semantics. If the only thing between you and your grand plans of clean government is a songkok, then you're stupid to not wear it immediately. Hell, I would wear the whole No. 1 Suit. After all, it's just about a social acceptance of decorum. The world has adopted the suit and tie as formal attire, so Malaysia has designated this suit as formal attire. Just wear it.

What's more it's only for several hours, if that. I'd wear it and take a picture of me wearing it. I don't know what these useless arguments are about.

After all, you don't see world leaders threatened when they wear their host country's attire during APEC meetings, why should you? WEAR IT!
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written by billykbk, March 16, 2008 14:26:36
As the stand on "songkok" taken by DAP Teng Chang Khim was in 2006, sometime at the height of anti-BN/anti-establishment period, it would be fair and constructive to let the matter rest. If Teng feels obligated to shed some lihght on his recent reaction and rejection, so much the better.

In fact, of late ppl in DAP have become more emboldened to express their views explicitly, without fear or favour. Hope this augurs well for the party. Teng and even Lim Kit Siang will NEVER be spared the wrath and brickbats of members like me. The fiasco early this week regarding LKS's infamous remarks and the ensuing responses fromboth DAP and non-DAP members exemplifies the prevailing trend......Stay alert and awake, my dear comrades. Your past laurels are nothing compared to your existing responsibilities.....Don't fail us!!!
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written by The dragonheart, March 16, 2008 14:27:21
The only why to survive is to work as a team. If Parties leaders are more concern about the number of seats they won and why they are not elected as MBs and forget about the two unsolved main objectives of the NEP, and questioning the rights of the Malays and Islam... the team will crack.

Everyone must put their pride aside and go and learn from Kelantan. They may be poor but they survive and able to pay salaries, maintain the state, pay all their debts and the Rakyat are always happy and thankful.

To me the first and foremost reason for the Survival of Kelatan for 18 years despite of been attacked, pressured and sabotaged by the federal government is because their leaderships' cohesiveness and teamwork and they always turn to Almighty Allah for guidance and help to strengthen their will power to stand on their rocks.


I hope all Menteri Besar and Ketua Menteri and all political leaders, are willing to work together as team players and moving forward holistically by helping each other. And with a strong numbers of MPs a greater pressure can be forced in Parliament against BN.
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written by teo siew chin, March 16, 2008 14:27:54
clean and transparent governance should be the clarion call for Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor.
check the coffers - how much left?
do not spare the rakyat the ugly truth - sink or swim, we are in for the ride together.
but heh, if Kelantan can do it, so can others!

Maybe the rakyat from these states will be flushed with goodies?
From:
(1) Barisan Rakyat when they run the show so well the rakyat truly benefit; and
(2) the federal gomen to show they are not sore losers and have changed for the better to win back the lost votes.

And, no, the songkok is not too tight for my head.
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written by temenggong, March 16, 2008 14:31:17
Teng need not address the songkok issue. That is his personal preferences on attire, and too intrusive for us to enquire. He either attends the royal ceremony or not.
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written by KARMANNGHIA, March 16, 2008 14:41:14
Dear Mr Teng.

comrade I should call you, but not today, not just yet......

remember that this election is about Malaysians, not just the Chinese, not just the Malays, not just the Indians, but Malaysians.

Malaysians has spoken, and Malaysians has voted, will you dissapoint us with this petty dress code? or is serving Malaysians who has put you were you are more important to you?

wearing a songkok does not instantly make you a Malay, and fluency in Bahasa Malay does not make you a Malay either. Knowledege of Islamic laws does not make one more pious or would make one an instant Muslim.

So what is this big no no for just wearing a songkok? would you desrespect the people who place their trust in you in such a trivial matter?

I hope you will grow out of this phobia.

Until then I will remain as a Malaysian, I will be too ashamed to be associated with meatal dinosaur such as you.

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written by Wisdom above, March 16, 2008 15:06:16
Shall all 4 new BR (DAP,PKR,PAS) governments invite the Auditor General Office to audit all 4 State accounts of the Ex- BN states Govt? Federal Law provision.

Does the BN Govt action to withhold federal Fundings to all 5 BR states Govt 'Ultra Vires' the Federal Constitution ?

I appreciate all 'BR' Legal advisers study all aspects of the Federal Constitution regarding Supply Bills tabled, debated , voted , passed in previous Parliament sittings.

So start cracking your he***, split hair if you have to.

In UK , US , by withholding Federal Funding, you simply fade away ..

Please think as a State Government.

..What I voted for is Barisan Rakyat.

..The collective voices of everybody has to continue

Yes , you are right.

I also cast my ballot for Barisan Rakyat.

Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.
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written by adisi, March 16, 2008 15:08:45
I posted this up on Jeff Ooi's Screenshot on what he could do with Penang's new state administration. I hope this piece would be applicable to all states as well. Hope we can have richer discussion on more important matters.

I would like to echo what RPK has iterated here. Please spend our time on more valuable discussions i.e. what value does it create out of this discussion. So, everybody, please learn to prioritise. Ask yourself are your inputs creating any value or is it just 'juicy' comments. Else, we are all virtually sitting in a meeting room, lazing off like the govt official who spends enormous of time in meetings but nothing happens after that. Action please! Not just talk cock!

Anyway, here's my input to Screenshot (I've deleted unrelated things for our readings here) :

1: Master plan
Persuade the new MBs/CMs to have a master plan of what to be achieved in the first 100 days. Checkout the best practices of new government coming into power. I'm sure internet savvy chap like you guys can find something on the Web. Worst case- Business Turnaround Plan by Idris Jala of MAS would be a good base to start with. Then, once a plan has been conjured up, everybody in the state can start to work towards it. Of course, please engage with people on the plan to get their buy in and agreed by people. This may be a challenge but your plan must fulfil the people's needs. Engagement, engagement, engagement. That is the very basis of how to become transparent!

When a new CEO of a big corporation is appointed, the first 100 days are crucial as it provides some direction to where he/she will be guiding the company.

So, this should go the same to newly appointed state officers (CM/MB & its EXCOs). If you have your plans for the 1st 100 days, kudos! If not, I’d like to suggest that you work it out. Quickly but not half past six kind of job! We’ve had enough of it.

to be continued...
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written by adisi, March 16, 2008 15:10:02
continue from my previous comment...

2: Org. Structure, Job Management & Pay Philosophy
Work on the Organisational Structure, Job Management & Pay Philosophy. Okay these bits are a bit technical from Human Resource (HR) point of view but I hope you would really consider this in coming out with new Org chart and the jobs that would come with it that would eventually put the state governance in good standards, at par with world class standards.

A good and strong organisation has a robust structure that can withstand the changes both internally and externally but still deliver what it is required to do. So, make sure you have a good org. structure.

Then, secondly, analyse each job in the org chart since different job would have different size (i.e. impact, decision making power, complexity of jobs/works need to be done etc). Get these jobs evaluated and pay people at that job accordingly.

With that, decide what pay philosophy (some call rewards philosophy) you want to engage on. This is where I’d like to highlight a little bit the success of Singapore’s government in wooing people into the government because Singapore gov’t recruit the best out of the best to run the government. I believe this should be the case too for our country but unfortunately, talents in government are not the ‘best of the best’ and are normally leftovers where the best ones have gone to private sector. So, in order to attract, retain and motivate the best talent in the government, you might want to really study what kind of pay philosophy you should be looking at. For instance, I think Singapore’s govt aims to pay the best in the country, even better than the private sector since their impact of the job is bigger. So, have a thought about it because the younger generation of people are quite money minded that you need the carrot and stick to incentive them. Reward people because of their performances. Once the talents are well taken care of, they will give you the best! Then you’ll have group of talents that are really performance based people that in returns should be fulfilling what the people expect out of the government. If they don’t perform, kick their backs out of the government like how General Electric does with their underperformers.

All of the things I’ve said above can be worked out with established HR consultants. And don’t worry; I ain’t selling anything to you because I am definitely not a consultant, but just a young fellow who sees the importance of these things in any organisation. For the sake of your organisation, have good thought of it. If all of this sounds very naïve & novice, pardon me but it works freaking well in big big big corporations.

All the above would address some issues related to the operational cost(OPEX) and best that we spend on putting the right structure/support in the state.

I hope any state leaders who re*** this can consider the items I have raised above as it will definitely help managing the state better. Without the right talent, you'll never get work done thus fail to meet people's need - read that your voters. Then come next general election, we all can just be like our friends in Terengganu.
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written by SUV, March 16, 2008 15:14:11
kelante ada minyak gaih smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif..the rest must depend on fdi and entrepreneurship
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written by Milo, March 16, 2008 15:52:20
I think RPK has to understand the real underlying reasons. In particular the olden batch of chinese (and to a large extent even most of the current chinese), wearing a songkok is an insult as it implies selling out of that person soul to gain fame and fortune. To these people, the situation is much like insisting that a muslim must eat pork or eat food together with non-muslim who eat pork on the same table (and I know of muslims who like char siew, a delicacy made from pork) in order to get the job, which is no small matter. Just as it is wrong to brand a muslim small minded for not eating pork with the arguement that park is just food, it is equally wrong to say that people who do not want to wear a songkok is so. I can tell you that even for those who did wear it to accomodate the official requirement, they do so without comfort. I like to point this out so that all can get a clearer perspective on the 'songkok' issue.
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written by Raja Petra, March 16, 2008 16:06:33
Dear Milo, thank you, you certainly helped me look at the Chinese side of things. Yeap, wearing a songkok is like eating pork. I now understand why most Chinese would find a songkok jijik.
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written by SUV, March 16, 2008 16:15:21
ahli exco owang india ada ploblemkah pake songkok?tadak maah..so why dap cina so flinstonesih aah in dis issue..lemme tell ya wat one cina who juai illicit likur told me 3 weeks b4 eleksen..'apa macam pun itu wan ajijah misti kasi lantik dan adil misti ada ampat pulu persen kalusi dlm parlimen..ini dap talak boleh kasi apa apa..anwar cudah masok gomen,dia tau macyam macyam.." smilies/wink.gif
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written by aryn, March 16, 2008 16:17:15
What's this about songkok?. Bankrupt of idea that songkok pon nak di jadikan issue? Must I wear one even if I am not muslim? The Perlis govt should be sensitive to non Malays also. Nak pakai ke tak nak pakai ke it's up to them but don't force and make it a ruling.

Pleeeease lah. We have enough of this malays/non malays differences for 50 years now that I just want to puke. Why can't we just get along and respect each other instead of trying to shove down into one's throat something that the non malays don't want to.
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written by SUV, March 16, 2008 16:18:55
yalah,dulu itu,snorter,boon siew sulah galuh sama itu lim chong eu,itu snorter back kit siang maximum ,oleh sibab itu,dap hampir tawan penan in 1990 and chong eu karah..sikalng,siapa back up dap n kit siang?
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written by SUV, March 16, 2008 16:26:40
waah ,aryn,heh,ur tipu name suggest ur a hindutva kah?sudahlah mate..every f*kin religion uses rosaries for their japa mantra..and songkok ke,nehru cap ke,salwar kameez ke..aiyaah.ini semua fesyenlah,no big deal
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written by tsuchong, March 16, 2008 16:31:04
If they never wear songkok kena whack.
If wore songkok also kena whack. Mainstream media will play it up.

Hidup damn susah man.

But anyway, close that chapter and start getting to more important things la.
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written by SUV, March 16, 2008 16:34:22
hidup susah sibab setengah olang sengaja cari susah..like i said b4,cina vote swing frm one cina based parties (mca,gelakan) 2 another cina based parti called dap..and cina makkal r watching..main thing 4 chinese is boleh bikin luikah..aah,ini dap talk boleh kasi,next ereksen,back 2 gelakan,mca,hbit calita
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written by Tan SN, March 16, 2008 16:56:41
Start doing recycling biz. The state is clean, and a way citizen contribute to state funds. Commodities are rising, trash are valuable.

Attract investment for resources exploration like coal (Hopefully, Malaysian company). I believe Malaysia is bless with many many many natural resources.

Reduce pollution, improve road condition, reduce crime rate, beautify landscape - thus increase land and properties value.

Get influx of ppl from neighbouring states to spend more in opposition states (KL - Selangor) by having sales event, community event, famous food highlight, games event.

Introduce inter-area competition in scope of efficiency, cleanliness, safety, pollution.

Hope this will help

What the crap are all those comments?? Please, start contributing ideas than talking abt the songkok issue.
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written by temanmu, March 16, 2008 17:12:19
One more suggestion, other than cutting wastages, corruption & improving efficiency:

Go after the "big fishes" who gained from the years of corruption. Use the law to seize their ill-gotten gains. Hire good state lawyers & pressure the Federal govt, ACA & AG to take action, if not expose those cronies of all races!

Don't allow the AG to do a great job of being incompetent when the need arises!

Allow amnesty to small fishes ... they were led by bad examples!

Hit the BIG crooks where it hurts ... their pockets! ... and provide them free food & lodging doing time!

AAB, BR will help polish your Mr Clean image!
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written by temanmu, March 16, 2008 17:21:32
cont. ...Pls also renegotiate or cancel those nepotist contracts which are padded more fully that the "Maximiser".

Businesses will flourish with less govt interference... & BR should lead in this! Less unnecessary controls & permits which just aided corruption!
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written by TingMK, March 16, 2008 17:39:39
I agreed that we should not spend too much time on songkot issue.

But allow me to express some of my views. As I know, in Malaysia every Malay is born as muslim (please correct me if i'm wrong), although I did personally met with malay who is not muslim. So this may be the factor why it is hard for some Chinese to wear songkok, because to their understanding songkok is a symbol of Muslim - as female muslims wear tudung, so male muslims wear songkot.

So they refuse to wear songkot for two reasons. First, as for them songkot is a symbol of muslim faith, then they will feel that wearing the songkot is a unfaithful act to their religion, as for a Christian to burn incense in temple or a muslim to worship in a church. Second, they refused to wear it because they respect Islam. As we were taught, non-muslims should not enter into mosques, as it is disrespectful to muslims. So with the same logic, they also think that since they are not muslims, then wearing songkot is disrespect act to muslim.

So it is a need to really convince Chinese, by the experts in Quran, that songkot is purely a Malay custom dress, nothing to do with Islam. Then I believe most Chinese and non-Muslims are willing to wear it when necessary, as like many Chinese like to wear batik.
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written by chiongguo, March 16, 2008 17:56:21
Some 25 years or so ago when I was in University Malaya I decided to join the Kompang group. I had to wear the malay costume , including the songkok. My classmates and college mates of chinese extraction, I am chinese by the way, were very annoyed at my action. One of my classmates came to talk to me and suggested that I pulled out. These are tertiary students and yet could not understand that the songkok has nothing to do with islam. I was a christian then and none of my brothers or sisters in the faith advised me to pull out. You don't need a quranic expert to know that the songkok is a malay traditional head gear and it has nothing to do with covering the aurat. The male aurat is his legs......don't ask me why.

I have seen malays wearing chinese dresses and those beautiful malay ladies wearing the cheongsam look much better than even the chinese themselves
smilies/grin.gif . Someone should design cheongsam using batik. And btw. batik actually orginated in india smilies/wink.gif

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written by budakindia, March 16, 2008 18:04:20
But isn't songkok design is pirated from India? You can ask Zainuddin Maidin! I hope he won't answer it like in the interview with Al-Jazeera! Just try asking him questions that needed hi to say Yes or No! But he started his antics with Yes,yes errr..no,no,no! You might as well ask the Kimma guys! smilies/grin.gif
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written by harrbm, March 16, 2008 18:23:39
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written by Raja Petra, March 16, 2008 | 16:06:33
Dear Milo, thank you, you certainly helped me look at the Chinese side of things. Yeap, wearing a songkok is like eating pork. I now understand why most Chinese would find a songkok jijik.


SONGKOK ISSUE : I disagree with Milo. I am a malay muslim brought up by chinese. where i live, many chinese wear baju kurung but without tudung. many chinese pray to little men made of clay who wear a songkok. when i was a little kid, i saw many chinese ladies wear tudung riding bicycle on their way to work. nowdays i saw many malays using chopstick eating yee mee or wantan mee or sizzling hokkien mee. Those in Klang maybe will see me at Berkeley Beer Garden eating my favourite char kuay teow together with some chills. smilies/smiley.gif

Government issue: I am confident of my new government. They will triumph as long they are clean and uphold Justice and Equality. On money matters, they will overcome it somehow. The chinese are good at it. I am no expert but i believe Selangor is a self run state and will develop itself.

>
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written by Huador, March 16, 2008 18:54:42
MILO, you are misleading the readers to say wearing songkok is as offended as eating pork to the muslim. Dont try to bullshit. Malaysian Diplomats have been wearing Songkok for the last 50 years when presenting their credential letter. Malay, Chinese, Indian and all Malaysians serving abroad are quite proud to wear Songkok when they accompany the King and the Sultans. Every PTD officers including Chinese and Indian are required to wear Songkok when they attend officials ceremonies at Palaces. How can you say those people wearing Songkok is so offended.


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written by Naha, March 16, 2008 19:01:38
YM RPK, thanks for your further elaboration on the no-songkok DAP policy dating back to 2006. Milo, is it really that insulting to the Chinese to wear this originally Indian headgear the Malays call songkok? Can you not see the connotation of muhibbah & masyarakat majmuk here? A headgear of Indian origin, worn by Malays and Chinese. Are we being half-empty, not half-full glass types in seeing things tragically when there is good in it?

YB Teng, Uncle Kit, come on lah - stop letting your pride stand in the way of doing what the rakyat mandated you to do. But I agree with YM RPK: this is a minor issue. Now the rakyat want to see the DAP-PKR-PAS triumvirate (I borrowed this apt word from another posting made by RPK) battle plan for the next five years.

Read this news posted by RPK as entitled below - past the bit about umno in-fighting (yawn) and we see that the Selangor MB is already acting to review the state finances:

POST-ELECTION DRAMA: Shahidan is out, Perak breaks impasse, Mukhriz letter bombshell

DAP, learn from your fellow coalition partners from PAS and PKR about the practicalities of running a state starved of federal funds. We look forward to hear your plans.

Best regards to all...
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written by jolmy, March 16, 2008 19:31:57
The songkok is just one of the traditional Malay costume. I don't have problem wearing a songkok if circumstances require me to (I'm not a Malay). For a non-Malay man to wear a songkok is just like a non-Malay woman wearing baju kurung.

The baju kurung is now quite popular among many Chinese and Indians anyway.

Btw, the songkok has nothing to do with Islam. Do you see Arabs wearing songkok anyway?
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written by harrbm, March 16, 2008 19:53:51

>
well, come to think of it. Maybe what YM RPK is getting at is more than the songkok issue. Is it something to do with culture issues if the leaders of the state or this country is a non malay?

Culture and traditions are very important and is a BIG issue. I dont know yet, but we Malaysians must come to terms with different cultures that we have.

How ya?

>
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written by SotPlug, March 16, 2008 20:15:11
I partially agree with Milo. Yes, wearing a songkok can be viewed as an insult to some 'old school' Chinese. But it is never to the extend of asking a Malay to eat pork. A better comparison will be asking the Malays to wear Chinese clothes if they want to do business with Chinese. I'm sure there'll be some Malays who don't mind, and there'll be also some others who'll riot for a new May13.
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written by jolmy, March 16, 2008 20:28:54
Perhaps you seen that on TV news, during Hari Raya, the newscasters irrespective of race wear Malay costume, on Chinese New Year, they wear Chinese costume and during Deepavali Indian costumes.

In the end, it is just the mindset of people. I do agree some of these 'old school' Chinese have problem when being asked to wear Malay costume. But they dont have problem with Western costume.

I can even tell you, during festivals like Hari Raya and Deepavali, I as a Chinese wish another Chinese friend Selamat Hari Raya and Happy Deepavali, he feels weird why I wish him that and sometimes even say he is not malay or indian. But, they have no problem if being wished Merry Christmas (he's not a Christian).

Until the mindset of these people change, you can expect such issues will crop up from time to time.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 16, 2008 20:33:44
The Crap about Songkok: Religious or Non-Religious

Frankly, I would like to say this.

1) Eating pork is bound to religion.
2) Wearing songkok, sarong are not bound to religion.
3) Wearing tudung is bound to religion.


So, therefore I would disagree with Milo on equating eating pork as disgusting as wearing songkok. It is a sin in Islam to eat pork because it is bound by religion but why should it be equated a sin for non-Muslims to wear songkok when it is not bound to religion?

It is indeed true that during the 13th century, songkok became famous during the propagation of Islam in this part of the world. However, one should bear in mind that there is no mention that Muslims must wear songkok in Islam (Quran), therefore it is not religious in nature. These days, Songkok is more ceremonial in nature. It has become a traditional Malay headgear.

Whereas, tudung while it is not mentioned in Quran, Islam does encourage its female practitioners to get covered. Of course, Muslim women can choose what to wear according to how they perceive their religion.

For your information, Songkok is no longer worn in Arab (a place believed to be the origin) but Tudung or its extensive version called Burqa is worn in both Arab and Muslim nations.



Now look at the picture above, look like songkok doesn't it? That is a version of headgear in Bali called Destar / Udeng inspired by Songkok. We all know that Balinese are dominantly Hindus. They wear sarong as well. So, people please don't give me crap about all this "ohh, you wear songkok, therefore it becomes a deadly sin".

Wielding a keris does not mean you are Malay or Muslim either. I can clarify if you want explanation.

smilies/sad.gif
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written by Sagaladoola, March 16, 2008 20:43:40
Now, let the 2nd picture speak the thousand words.



Now, that is a picture of Richard Branson (the multi-millionaire Virgin corp guy) with Air Asia John Fernandez taken last year. Published in The Edge Daily 10-08-2007

1) Richard Branson is not a Malay.
2) Richard Branson is not a Malaysian.
3) Tanjak / Tengkolok worn by him is a Malay headgear originally coming from Islam which had become a traditional headgear rather than a religious one. Something like Songkok.

Look at that, the Westerners are having pride and having fun wearing all these traditional headgear while stupid Malaysians are haggling forever as it is a DEadLY SIN (like eating pork in Islam) to wear a traditional headgear. Richard is wearing the full-fledged outfit, now wearing only a songkok is terrible for Malaysians? Sheesh

Now, I tell you this, I am going to be Blunt. STUPID MALAYSIANS WAKE UP. YOU ARE ALL BLOODY STUPID ! Sometimes, we blame others for dividing us and ruling us but DON'T YOU KNOW YOU ARE THE ONE PLAYING INTO THE HANDS OF DIVIDE AND RULE?

BODOH, BODOH, BODOH! CORRECT, CORRECT, CORRECT!

Nuff said. Feel much better now.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Milo, March 16, 2008 20:55:07
The issue at hand is not about wearing songkok by non-malays, but whether it should be voluntary or compulsory.

Looking at the problem we had over the chinese elected rep not willing to wear a songkok already demonstrated that the sensitivity is real – otherwise, there would have been no issue at all.

The pork example is just a metaphor to show why we should net generalise. Just as there are muslims who take pork (illegally as it is) or do not mind sharing food with people eating pork besides them, but we cannot generalise because of that that all muslims should not be offended if you take pork on the same table with them or offer them such. Of course there are those who would not mind wearing a songkok or even a tudung, just as there are more liberal muslims, but it is wrong to blame those who do mind.

In the 60's, many chinese parents (in my kampung at least) actually worry if the government may one day impose the compulsory wearing of songkok on their children. Perception-wise, it is like you will become 'malay' (I did not say 'Islam'), and this perception makes it uncomfortable for them. Again there is nothing wrong being more malay or even becoming a muslim, but it should not be forced. Similarly some muslims may feel it is less Islamic not to wear a tudung while other muslims do not – should we force every muslim to wear a tudung also?

Historically, the Manchus had forced upon the chinese to wear a pig-tailed or get their head cut off. Everyone did then because of the royal degree, but how many are happy? They can still wear a pig-tail today, and there is nothing wrong if it is on their own choice.

I often heard the statement that we should be sensitive to the malays' feelings (which we should), but why not also apply this principle to other races as well? If it is only a dress code as some said, why make it such a 'must' when it can be sensitive to some people with different value systems?

Of course, we can still insist that there is nothing wrong with that requirement or even demand that every citizen wear a songkok, but is that wise?
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written by Milo, March 16, 2008 20:56:31
Sagaladoola, Richard did it voluntarily, not forced. That's the difference.
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written by Milo, March 16, 2008 21:13:41
Sagaladoola, just because the headgear is not sensitive to Richard Brason does not mean it is the same to everyone. As a good example, one campaigning issue against Tengku Razaligh when he contested TDM was the headgear he wore is East Malaysia which is deemed a christian headgear although it is not.

Sensitivity means understanding some love chilli, others don't.
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written by DontPlayGod, March 16, 2008 21:18:50
If we have problems, or ideas, at least we can write into this blog and hopefully, the BR parties will read them and consider them. Or we can even write to LKS, or to the other party websites and say our piece. But with UMNO/BN, they are too aloof and high class for us to say anything to them. And that is why they flopped in this G.E. Any comments or suggestions is run down by UMNO/BN. And they will never apologize for their stupid mistakes, e.g. the leaking MP who passed a sexist remark but saw it unnecessary to apologize. That Bung Mokhtar MP who always like to call people monkeys or pass unsavoury, racist, and insulting remarks in parliament will never apologize. To them apologizing is something beneath their dignity.

And remember the UMNO cybertroopers attempt to insult M-T bloggers. If UMNO had really wanted to listen to the people, they too would have answered to some of the issues in M-T in an intellectual manner. But I suppose they had nothing to say, and hence all they did was try to harass and be a nuisance in M-T.
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written by harrbm, March 16, 2008 21:58:56
>
written by Milo, March 16, 2008 | 20:55:07
The issue at hand is not about wearing songkok by non-malays, but whether it should be voluntary or compulsory.

> with due respect dear Milo, you got it wrong again. The issue is whether to be sensitive or insensitive to the traditions of the Malay Sultanate. Whether it is good or bad political stand for now.

There may be other cultural clashes that need to be address and coming to term with. we all will overcome it and emerge winners. dont you think so?

hmmm...btw, what is our the national costume ?

cheers.

>
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written by nowinnofee, March 16, 2008 22:27:08
I wonder if these fellas ( sorry I will be calling the opposition this until they earn the respect of the citizens of Malaysia)have attended English lessons where they would remember the idiom " can see wood for the tree" . This is because that is what is currently happening. Really if they dont know that , than they dont deserve the positions we as the citizens have been kind enough to provide them with. What can I say..except...GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!
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written by nowinnofee, March 16, 2008 22:28:18
Correction, in my irritation with these fellas..i meant CANT SEE WOOD FOR THE TREES
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written by Catharsis, March 16, 2008 22:47:54
IF DAP REFUSE TO adAPT TO THE EVERCHANGING POLITICAL LANDSCAPE DAP WILL BE IN A STATE OF OBLIVION IN THE DAYS AHEad. WHAT THEY ARE GOOD FOR IS HARPING ON MINOR ISSUES WHILE NEGLECTING ON POLICY FORMULATION- EVEN IF THEY DO COME UP WITH POLICIES THEY ARE SO POORLY FORMULATED THEY FALL APART
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written by Milo, March 16, 2008 22:49:55
harrbm: with due respect dear Milo, you got it wrong again. The issue is whether to be sensitive or insensitive to the traditions of the Malay Sultanate. Whether it is good or bad political stand for now.
------------------------------------------

Dear harrbm, You are making a wrong assumption about my personal stand. I would have wore the songkok and get the ceremony over with as it is not a big deal considering the more important issue at hand. In that respect we are both thinking the same. But just because I think the same does not mean I should not respect others with different value system as me. I am merely pointing out that making it compulsory can be a big issue with some people who are not malay or muslim. And for that matter, the sultans may not be aware of it, and should be made aware. Tradition can change, even if it is with the Sultans.

Imagine: What if the traditions of the Malay sultanate have been to require ALL Council members must pray in a mosque before they can be accepted? How would you have responded if you are a buddhist, hindu or christians? Of course, the issue at hand is not that serious, but the principle is still the same. Can we fairly say they are at fault for being insensitive to the Sultan's tradition?

That's why I ask for understanding when everyone is blaming these reps. If the Sultan is as modern and understanding as I hope they are, they can always carry on the ceremony without having to blame the reps for not attending. Cooperation comes from understanding. If we ask the collision parties to understand each other, we must walk the talk. As we do what we feel is right, we must understand why sometimes others cannot follow.
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written by GuaL, March 16, 2008 22:50:06
Hmm,

I don't want to get involve in the Songkok thing as it is too petty.

Anyway, these are my hopes for the new government, among others:

1) Food
We need to have cooperation from all basic necessities producers, especially the distributors and the retailers on not just being selfish by taking advantage of situation. Come on, a price hike of 10 cents in petrol doesn't augurs well with 10 or 20 cents hike in basic necessities like sugar, flour, milk etc.

2) Shelter
Ok, this is the hard part for me to even utter it out since it may seem "sensitive". Let me just use the bungalows as the yard stick, as that is the ultimate of Malaysian Malaysia if I read it correctly in between the lines. At the moment, if we take 1000 bungalow owners and group them in one place, and we asked someone to throw 10 pebble at them, chances are 9 out of 10 will hit a Chinese head. Now, the question is, how do we change this is such a way that maybe it will hit Indian he*** 2 out of 10, and maybe 3 out of 10 to Malay he***, and the rest 5 hit Chinese he***. Then, we will all will live peacefully as Malaysian Malaysia.

3) Education
The price of books are still considered very (VERY) expensive compared to other nation. Some say we don't have economic of scales so that publishers can produce a specific edition for Malaysia as a country (paperback edition) like in Philippines, India, China etc. It goes back to the basic bread and butter thing where auxiliary expenses such as books are neglected. I would like to see how the new government can encourage the reading habit by reducing the barrier for the low income groups to get their reading habits installed and perfected on. Perhaps, the free public libraries can be utilized to its maximum potential by bringing in new and updated books, but it depends on how the budget is prepared. This is the basic necessity in education that I see, among others.

Ok, enough for now.
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written by mimag2005, March 16, 2008 22:56:41

written by Milo, March 16, 2008 | 20:55:07

.....why make it such a 'must' when it can be sensitive to some people with different value systems?....

01)Do you know what are the VALUE SYSTEM (Protocol) FOR MALAYSIAN CITIZENS Attending Official/Ceremonial Functions at the Istana ?

Please don’t get confuse with the dress codes used for attending your friends Hari Raya Open House or Company dinner or informal gathering for “teh tarek “


02)written by Milo, March 16, 2008 | 20:56:31
Sagaladoola, Richard did it voluntarily, not forced. That's the difference.


The DIFFERENCE is Richard has an Eagle’s Brain that cud “ SEE ” beyond.....unlike our “SICK GENERATION OF WANNABE MALAYSIANS “ who have Sparrow Brains and cud not “SEE” beyond the tip of their noses.....


...............
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written by GHT, March 16, 2008 23:06:09
Dear RPK,

BR politicians are required not only to lead but to educate so that a truly Malaysians Malaysia can be achieved. Successfully elected adun Teng Chang Khim and members of DAP need not have to hold on to their old egos and create a non-issue of songkok for themselves. They have been successfully elected not because of the Chinese votes alone but because of the swing votes of the Malays, Indians and other races as well.

My mother and aunties from Penang used to wear nyoya attires ie baju Melayu, sarong batik, kerongsang, etc to weddings and other important functions during the pre and post Merdeka years without much problems. It was the essential and a proper dress code then. Due to the play up by politicians , after merdeka, anything to do with Malay became sensitive to the Chinese.

Due to the ruling party of the day i.e. UMNO imposing various Malay skewed policies i.e NEP, etc. the Chinese were afraid of losing their rights and customs, became suspicious and sensitive of all things that the government imposed on to them. The wearing of songkok and Malay attires are some of them.

Things certainly have now changed. My wife and children and together with their many friends now a days frequently wear baju kurong and even Panjabi costumes to work and outings. As for myself, wearing sarong to sleep is so much more comfortable.

It is true it is the politicians that are the culprits of the 'divide and rule' problems in this country. adun Teng Chang Khim and members of DAP, PKR and PAS has definitely need to play their roles to lead and create a new racial bias free attitude among Malaysians. If we continue to hang on to the old biasness, it will be pointless to talk of race base free political party. Political leaders must, therefore not only lead but take the responsibility to educate Malaysians in their thinking and doing what is righteous and right for the country. Not only just thinking of short term popularity.
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written by Milo, March 16, 2008 23:06:57
mimag2005,

1. I merely say don't blame these reps because of the reasons given above. I didn't say I don't understand the Istana Protocol.

2. I happened to know quite a bit of Richard background and do admire many of his eagle brain qualities. But he is also a adHD who is quite a womaniser and alcohol drinker, would any Muslim accept and follow his lifestyle too?
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written by SamYap, March 16, 2008 23:19:30
To All Malaysians -whether PKR, BN, DAP, PAS or whatever,

This is Malaysia and Malaysia has its own unique culture. We cannot really point to just one dress code and say; "Ah! Thats a Malaysian dress code!" So, what we should do is to follow tradition and official protocol. In the absence of any of the two, then we will simply adopt the universally accepted dress code of a two piece suit (before anyone starts to say that the suit is Western - please lah - its so widely accepted that the West has lost the trademark).

Tradition has it that non-Malays (and sometimes even Malays)will wear a suit for official functions. But traditon also shows that palace protocol strongly encourages traditonal Malay garb, as a mark of respect to the Royal ruler who is of course a Malay.

I think its really extremely petty for DAP who professes to be Malaysian, to ignore this fact. I have been very disappointed with some of the views and mindset of the DAP lately. Had I known that they had such abhorrent behaviour, I would have told them off during their ceramahs. If they continue along this vein, they will soon lose support amongst the well-informed and enlightened Malays and non-Malays. I am quite prepared to start an anti-DAP blog if they persist to behave this way.

As a life long supporter of DAP, I am beginning to lose the feeling of camaraderie very fast. The small minded bastards within the party are willing to risk everything over such petty matters. *******s!
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written by sheppardlight, March 16, 2008 23:46:10
The baju Melayu worn by the Malays now originated from the chinese, modified to suit the culture here and the songkok from India. The Malays now eat dim sum keow teow, nasi ayam etc etc. And the chinese now eat satay, nasi lemak, lemang and almost anything from the malay dish. So whats the big deal about the songkok? Hai ya! If this songkok pun you cannot setle, how to lead the Goverment? Susah la ini macam!
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written by SamYap, March 16, 2008 23:54:35
The baju Melayu worn by the Malays now originated from the chinese, modified to suit the culture here and the songkok from India. The Malays now eat dim sum keow teow, nasi ayam etc etc. And the chinese now eat satay, nasi lemak, lemang and almost anything from the malay dish. So whats the big deal about the songkok? Hai ya! If this songkok pun you cannot setle, how to lead the Goverment? Susah la ini macam!


Exactly! You hit on the nail! And yet the so-called party stalwarts in DAP are blind to the fact that they too eat cili belacan and cannot survive without curry and chili.

I'd say it again...those small minded members in DAP are *******S! Kick them out! Leave the Malaysian minded ones to run the party.
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written by choong, March 17, 2008 00:16:36
Dear YM RPK,

The first thing that came to my mind if the Fed refuse to fund the States, the tax payers of the States should stop paying taxes to Feds but instead direct such funds to the States. Yet, we all know this is a federal offense hence it is not feasible.

So, the only other thing the States can do is to watch the finances well. Cut costs where possible. Yes, no more big time development. But if the Fed govt policymakers are smart, they should understand the impact of such stupid actions. To let states like Selangor, Penang and Perak to be starve off development funds will definitely affect this country's overall economy. imagine millions are out of jobs and businesses go bust while prices and crime keep going up. is the federal govt prepared to alienate themselves further?

they can mess with a rural state with little economic impact to the rest of the country. but to try the same trick on 5 states which carry substantial economic impact to the rest of the country? i wish BN good luck in the 13th general election since they will definitely receive the boot for economic mismanagement.
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written by fromamovingtrain, March 17, 2008 00:24:03
Mr Teng,
i don't want to play up racial issues, far from it. The rest of you can check my other postings from as far back as 2006. But unfortunately, you and your party have been elected to govern a/some state/s by, among others, people whose ancestors have been around for far longer, and, again unfortunately, govern a/some state/s which constitutionally (i'm sure you can respect that word, can't you) is/are headed by a malay sultan, raja, 'king' if you like. This constitutional head/s have protocols steeped in tradition and (local) culture. Like it or not, they are your rulers, until such time you have enough people of your kind in the respective state assemblies and could afford an amendment to the state/s constitution to either abolish the royalty or at least amend parts of the constitution you don't like, regarding the position of islam and malays in the particular state/s.

So, as much as i don't care too much about a black songkok as it does not guarantee me a blessed life here or in the hereafter, i suggest you respect your constitutional (you do respect that word, don't you?) rulers and the tradition that colours the land you proudly stand on, and drop this whole hullabaloo (is that where the word 'hulubalang' was derived from, rpk?) about a piece of headgear and start thinking about raising the standard of governance that we have had to endure the past 50 years. Maybe then your sultans could realise that imposing a yellow, brown or black man to wear a songkok does little to change the principles that their subjects really believe in and strive hard to maintain.
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written by Wakeupmsia, March 17, 2008 00:34:09
Wearing the songkok as part of the ceremonial attire should not be an issue at all. After all, it does not make one, more Malay or less Chinese/Indians/others. Since our Sultans are Malay/muslim as Head of States, who wear songkok, the DUN should wear songkok as and when required. Simple logic - please due respect to our Sulatns.
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written by Wakeupmsia, March 17, 2008 00:36:42
Sorry, Sulatns should be spelled as Sultans. Apologies.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 01:16:09
Dear Milo,

Please .... when we address royals anywhere in this world, there are always protocols to follow. Even when we meet Queen Elizabeth of UK, or the Japanese Monarch. Even when we meet the Thai King , they have protocols. And please, all these protocols are enforced, otherwise you can't meet them.

Wearing a songkok is a simple protocol. If "force" is the word used, then I think everyone is "forced" to do something when meeting with any royals in any nation. Everyone is "forced" to kneel by the sword when meeting with the Queen to get a "Sir" as a title.

If "force" is the word you choose, can I presume that you agree with DAP doing such boycott?

It is fine by me, go on, certain (not all) DAP MPs can go on do all that "voluntarily". Go on do all the boycott. I am sure the Malays would be happy by the boycott and vote for them in PRU13.

Wearing a songkok is just plain simple. I do not know what is so terrible about wearing a Malay cultural non-religious headgear.

Go on, if that is what Milo thinks, perhaps the "opposition" on wearing Songkok can go on. Go on and do the "opposition" work forever. Go and see if the Malay royals and the Malay citizens will be happy with all that. Whoops, now I remember. The Malay citizens voted MPs into power too. I am not sure but perhaps there are people who likes to be "opposition" forever. I am really not sure. Good luck.

I would like to applaud the non-Malaysian, non-Malay Richard Branson for executing the "voluntarily and not forced" way of wearing such a gear even when he is not meeting with the Sultan. It is indeed strange to know some non-Malaysians can be so "Malaysian" and open in this world. Strange, strange!

Nuff said....

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 01:40:28
SAY NO TO CRAP PERCEPTION

written by Milo, March 16, 2008 | 20:55:07
The issue at hand is not about wearing songkok by non-malays, but whether it should be voluntary or compulsory.

Looking at the problem we had over the chinese elected rep not willing to wear a songkok already demonstrated that the sensitivity is real – otherwise, there would have been no issue at all.

In the 60's, many chinese parents (in my kampung at least) actually worry if the government may one day impose the compulsory wearing of songkok on their children. Perception-wise, it is like you will become 'malay' (I did not say 'Islam'), and this perception makes it uncomfortable for them. Again there is nothing wrong being more malay or even becoming a muslim, but it should not be forced. Similarly some muslims may feel it is less Islamic not to wear a tudung while other muslims do not – should we force every muslim to wear a tudung also?


I am sorry, but I will be blunt here. If that is what the MP himself thinks, I will say he is insensitive. If he thought "wearing songkok makes him a Malay" I do not know how to say. If that is what an MP thinks then we better think twice of voting him into power. If going by that logic, then people should not wear shirts because that will make him an Englishmen and say no to cheongsam because that will make him a chinese.

That is really crap in year beyond 2000. Today, we see Julia Roberts wear cheongsam-inspired dress on an Oscar carpet. So, now Julia is chinese? Oh, so now Richard Branson is a Malay? Indeed highest degree crap.

As a leader, he should lead and educate the people into the real thing, that it is ceremonial in nature. I take it that the chinese people are pragmatic and not stupid.

It is indeed a foolish thinking. We have to let go of the past. The Sultan is the leader of Malays. The adat says we have to wear songkok, which is a Malay headgear, we wear and see them.

And please, today is noughties, the next millennium. Please don't bring in all the 1960s crap and implement it here today. Today we are in a globalised world. If the perception is crap, we change or throw it awat. Don't retain the crap because it is a perception. Say no to crap perception.

Like I described earlier, Tudung is religious, so it can't be enforced. Songkok is non-religious, it is necessary to meet a Malay leader a.k.a. Sultan as ceremonial protocol. It is not for one to wear everyday. How many times do you want me to mention that?

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 01:45:11
Milo : Historically, the Manchus had forced upon the chinese to wear a pig-tailed or get their head cut off. Everyone did then because of the royal degree, but how many are happy? They can still wear a pig-tail today, and there is nothing wrong if it is on their own choice.


The protocol said "Songkok" is during ceremonial purpose in Istana. Sultan and Agong did not dictate for every single person in Malaysia to wear songkok everyday.

That is a poor example you used. Those days Chinese in China had to be pig-tailed everywhere they go everyday.

Goodness gracious.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 02:48:25

My Dear Milo,

I admire Richard’s visionary depth…BUT…….

……that does not mean I have to accept and follow his epicurean life style ?

Brother,

Tolong lah.. you cannot compare chalk with cheese..!!

Please don’t follow one earlier blogger who brought out of the blue “ circumcision “ when the topic is about songkok.

This fella must be having hyper phobia which defies the laws of gravity….hehehe…...oops!

Sorry, I’m bursting at the seams.

I truly, truly love Malaysia.. where else can I find such colourful brothers….

Estalavista !
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written by lokenpal, March 17, 2008 03:07:29
All the explantion for not wearing the songkok is unconvincing, and seem to reflect one's inner bias. Why then wear batik shirt or APE the west by wearing a suit.

Its stupidious on the part of DAP or any non-Malay/muslim for not wearing a songkok, except if you already wear a turban or some religious headress.

I had wanted to wear a songkok for graduation at a US university but had to conform to the official rule. Note: I am a Malaysian Indian and thought it would be my MALAYSIAN IDENTITY that I was trying to express.

>>No, wearing a songkok on your head is not going to solve all these problems...rpk said.

But rememeber this; we live in a muti-cultural society and sometimes need to do stuff to please all of us.
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written by nonpartisan73, March 17, 2008 03:41:49
We elected them and all they can say is songkok is insensitive? Dude, you are representing the majority now, dont act like opposition no more. Still otak nak oppossed je to anythg. Its protocol, ikut la. The word pun protocol.

Obviously, DAP needs to do some spring cleaning jugak like BN. All these garbage in DAP with old school mindset need to just shut up and let the real 'Malaysia for Malaysian' speaks. Old school but western culture boleh accept. Hmmm, whatever!
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written by renoir, March 17, 2008 03:51:51
Dear Milo, good arguments. Part of my posting under the previous RPK article "small minds....etc.)

LChuah
------------------------------------
To elaborate on an earlier posting:

>About the songkok, what a reader here says is correct: it should be voluntary .... the dress code is just something to emphasize in front of His Highness the unity of the rakyat. It has no other purpose.]]

Notice the first sentence: "It should be voluntary." Why is it important? Divorced from political context, it's a trivial matter. But NOT when seen against decades of blatant racism. This is the racism that, to put it briefly, permitted a few ruffians from one community to say they have the right to 30% of other people's private enterprises, that barred large numbers of qualified students from other communities from public colleges, that turned a civil service paid for largely by other communities in a single, ethnic-based organization, that, in an expression of perverse logic, treated all pleas for equity as anti-national and all demonstrations other than its own as terroristic. To add insult to injury, the communities that enabled this elite to build palaces inside the nation and own properties overseas were often called "orang asing" and "pendatang2." Further, contrary to the Constitution, the pendatang2 soon find themselves attacked for things such as keeping dogs, rearing pigs, and practising different religions. Their places of worship were often restricted, and some even destroyed. Their children couldn't bring lunch to eat at the school cafetaria, couldn't attend college commencement without a tudung, and often had to wear costumes identified with the dominant community.

Given such circumstances, if you're a non-Malay parent, wouldn't you see every instance of wearing a baju kurong as a surrender to racist oppression? Every instance of donning a songkok as a bow to unmitigated tyranny? Not to mention a sellout to your people, a betrayal to the rights of each community as defined by our Constitution? What if the reverse occurred - if Malays were told to cough up the bulk of the country's taxes, but not allowed to build mosques or use a small percentage of those taxes for vernacular schools. What if Malays were told that their children couldn't attend certain public universities or enroll in certain departments. What if a Chinese minister habitually took out a "kuan tow" (a kind of spear) to threaten the Malays and then lamely said that it's a Chinese custom? Then, under this kind of atmosphere, a Malay is told that in order to meet the Sultan he should wear a Mao suit or, in the case of a woman, a qibao? Even if that Malay were to accede to the request, wouldn't his parents, his friends and peers accuse him of selling out his race? Wouldn't shouts of "Takkan Melayu hilang di-dunia" reverberate all over the nation?

For some of us, wearing the songkok isn't a problem partly because we've to some extent survived the system. For myself, I'm very much at home with Malay food, sarong, songs and pantuns and everything else (my mom was a nyonya anyway). My love for this country motivates my call to fellow non-Malay Malaysians to be forgiving, to be magnanimous, to let bygones be bygones for, by the grace of God, the recent GE has given us some hope. Moreover, racism might be an UMNO trait, but that doesn't mean our sultans share that disability. For His Highness (and unlike UMNO), the dress code is simply a way to emphasize the unity of the rakyat.

But don't imagine for a moment that Teng - or some of those older Chinese citizens - don't have good reasons for rejecting the songkok. They do, and to understand that is the first step towards turning this country from its racist mire into a more tolerant, inclusive nation. God bless Malaysia and our royalty.

LChuah
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written by Beautiful Mind, March 17, 2008 03:55:35
Gentlemen, ladies too,

Let's get our priorities right. We have just caused a major upset in the last GE and it is time to get down to business.

I remember a year or two ago, the issue of 'azan' made headlines in the paper and in some blogs. Some were uncomfortable with the azan breaking into the dawn while most are still sleeping and this azan woke them up.

Now we have this 'songkok' issue.

My fear is Barisan Nasional will exploit these issues to get sympathy from voters as these issues are particularly close to the Muslims especially that of the 'azan'. We must never give any allowance for Barisan Nasional to see the weaknesses, the crack and the dis-agreement within otherwise as this may prove disaster for us in the future. Barisan Nasional and their intelligentsia (if they have some that is) will always look for this to attack us. Trust me!.

The job now should begin in earnest. That we all must try and get the economy moving, encourage foreign investment into Malaysia, encourage tourism, find ways to enhance the health and education services – these two are important to the rakyat, improve on the social services, better provision of housing, provide jobs for the unemployed, better policing and more accountability from the judiciary services, complete overhaul of ACA, take control of PETRONAS money and many many more that should be issues of top priority than a songkok.

Most importantly is that we can provide a better standard of living for each and everyone of us. Lets spread the money for everyone and not just a few.

Billionaires and Millionaires must give something back into society. I am sure they will not mind that much.

These are the bread and butter issues which will determine that we can still sustain the support from ordinary Malaysians up and down the country.

Remember the next GE is within 4- 5 years from now. If the rakyat dont like what they see in us. We will be out just like they reject the Barian Nasional in Perak, Kedah, Penang and Selangor.

Our aim now should be focusing on improving on achievements by the Barisan Government and win more States. If we sing the same song, stop the stupid, trivial and mundane arguments, we can achieve them within 5 - 10 years in comparison to Barisan Nasional 50.

Let's get cracking !.
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written by Raja Petra, March 17, 2008 04:49:14
Dear renoir, dress codes are NOT voluntary, they are COMPULSORY. Trying walking into the National Press Club wearing slippers and a T-shirt. They will not allow you in and will ask you to leave even if you are the Sultan's cousin. In some restaurants a jacket is mandatory and they will lend you one if you walk in without a jacket. But uncultured people would never understand this concept of dress code anyway. Malays somehow do though. It is Chinese who appear not to understand this.
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 05:20:10

Dear LChuah,

01)I can empathise with the feelings of helplessness experienced by the older generation.

02)Theres a misalignment of visceral distrust/silent protest directed towards an innocent party.

03) Was the Sultan the cause of this dissatisfaction....?

04) While the Older & Present Day Generation find it jijik and humiliating to put on a songkok as Istana Protocol dictates, yet....they are driven by obsession and bask in glory when the Sultan award them Datukship.

Are these REAL, REAL PEOPLE or are they the classic Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde..??

05) These newly elected Leaders know only too well that by becoming a Politician they have VOLUNTARILY FOFEITED THEIR PERSONAL AND FAMILY LIFE. THEY HAVE BECOME PUBLIC PROPERTY.

06) These Leaders have been championing “ MALAYSIAN MALAYSIA “ for a long, long time. In Malay language we say... sudah jadi darah daging....!!!!

07) Now with the support of the other races... THEY HAVE ARRIVED..!!!!

0smilies/cool.gif While the SWEET MELODIC ANNOUNCEMENT of the last election result was still ringing in our ears, we were JOLTED BY RACIAL OVERTONES BY THESE SAME CHAMPIONS OF “ MALAYSIAN MALAYSIA “

09) Are these Leaders REAL...? .....OR..... “ PLASTIC SCRAP...??? “

10) 5 years will come and go with the wink of an eye.

We the RAKYATS have already matured.....

Cheers!
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written by lokenpal, March 17, 2008 06:44:24
Lchuah, Well written and understand u statement and hear that from my older siblings >>if you're a non-Malay parent, wouldn't you see every instance of wearing a baju kurong as a surrender to racist oppression? For some of us, wearing the songkok isn't a problem partly because we've to some extent survived the system.

Anyway, its funny wearing 'western' suits is considered acceptable; perhaps fairess

I disagree that >> racism might be an UMNO trait. Well, I think we are 'all' inherent racist; and some of us do not rationalise it into immoral actions...but some do.
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written by renoir, March 17, 2008 07:07:50
Dear RPK, mimag, and all: I never said the dress code could be voluntary, just the wearing of the songkok. In other words, the dress code could be made something like "either a songkok with suit or just the suit." Surprisingly, when I was a member of the National Press Club no one told me there was a dress code. I didn't find out because I never attended any of the functions - some of which were frivolous, such as learning how to dance the salsa(I think).

At any rate, I think BN's racism will diminish with time. Surely its recent electoral setback is sufficient warning to those still in power that they cannot continue to threaten to drench their keris in Chinese blood, or ignore pleas for a more liberal college enrollment policy. It's possible that with Anwar as the leader, the new coalition will be able to ensure greater racial harmony among Malaysians. The fears of older Chinese - and probably some Indians as well - still exist, I think, and it's difficult to get them to pretend that everything is lovey dovey. But we can do is, besides watching our speech and behavior, appeal to their better instincts. We must all reach out to one another, and a simple first step could be obeying protocol set by the sultan.

BTW, when I was in teacher training here in Malaysia, the dress code for our college library was casual shirt and pants plus shoes. I once went in with "Japanese slippers" and was told that "no one could enter wearing only sandals." So I went out, took off my slippers, and walked in barefooted. Somehow, the folks there thought I wasn't worth their trouble and left me alone long enough to finish my reading!

LChuah
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written by renoir, March 17, 2008 07:14:00
>But we can do is, besides watching our speech and behavior, appeal to their better instincts.]]

Sorry, was in a hurry and didn't sleep all night. Should be "But what we can do is, besides watching our speech ...."

At any rate, it appears that Teng didn't violate the code as he didn't go to the Istana - whether by design or due to something unforeseen. I'll wait for him to clarify.

LChuah
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written by renoir, March 17, 2008 07:16:37
And oh - I forgot, mimag, you might find many an older person couldn't care less about datukships. Some, like Lee Kuan Yew, even considered it an indication of being "bought" by the other side.

LChuah
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written by malaysianohope, March 17, 2008 08:32:53
G'day, Pete

The songkok controversy trivial it may be seems but difficult to put to sleep. I think the comparison made by Milo comparing it with eat pork is ludicrous. Its more of the case of wearing one being associated with a Muslim but since you have clarified that it is not so no issue but purely a protocol thing. So DAP just do the right thing if you want to respect the Royalties in their presence.

Next please!!!!
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written by TruthSayer, March 17, 2008 08:36:13
Choong said :
"The first thing that came to my mind if the Fed refuse to fund the States, the tax payers of the States should stop paying taxes to Feds but instead direct such funds to the States. Yet, we all know this is a federal offense hence it is not feasible."

I am of the same mind. I stay in an opposition controlled state and if my taxes does not go to benefit the state i stay in why should i pay? Where is the principle of justice?

Perhaps, some legal minds here can give an opinion on how we can "legally" pay our taxes directly to the state governments. Withholding federal funding to opposition controlled states is s a form of persecution.

I for one would like to see how the BN controlled federal government will be able to prosecute 10 million citizens who choose to pay their taxes directly to their state governments so that progress and development in the state can continue.
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written by iMac, March 17, 2008 08:44:14
"But uncultured people would never understand this concept of dress code anyway."

Well put RPK.
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written by malaysianohope, March 17, 2008 09:01:59
TruthSayer,

Talking about withholding tax to the Federal Government... My suggestion unless anybody can prove me wrong... calculate the correct tax amount then remit it to the State Government (ones controlled by BR) with the understanding that it's for onward payment to the Federal Government. The State Government can then deduct their share and remit balance to the Federal Government. The State Government as our stakeholder will issue us a receipt with a proviso that it's for our tax payment. Just my view!!!
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written by Jengking, March 17, 2008 09:04:53
DAP is DAP. Just cannot understand why wearing a songkok is a great issue to them. It has been told umpteen times that songkok is part of Malay attire, just like wearing cap, wig etc.It has nothing to do with Islam.And Songkok is very dear to the Malays so much so that it has become an official dress code in any istana function.If DAP is so adamant, then they are simply not the right party to rule and administer the country or states.To them, democracy is only when it is their favour. And rest assured that DAP will never gain the Malays support as long as they are in that paranoid state. Any way DAP is not concerned about racial harmony as shown in their anti Malay stance.
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written by Counterpointer, March 17, 2008 09:18:30
Perhaps you guys should just saunter over to this website on Royal and Palace Customs http://www.malaysianmonarchy.o... Functions to settle this issue.

For the most formal ceremonies, only this is stated:

Note: Malays should wear songkok for all the above mentioned functions.

For the Presentation of Letter of Appointment, Taking of the Oath of Office of PMs, DPMs; 'Dark Lounge Suit' is permitted with this stipultion: (vi) With Songkok for Muslims.


I would interpret this to mean that wearing the songkok would be optional for Non-Malays.

Or does the Perak Royalty has its own specific dress code for the swearing in of MBs?

Storm in a teacup ???

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written by alan cheong, March 17, 2008 09:22:31
Natch, REAL issues must be addressed.

However, forgive me if i miss the point, BUT, p'raps WE need to be educated about the songkok: its significance and its use.

Though an old issue, this can be replayed - and it's coming across as IMPOSING unwanted and unwelcomed will on others. Educate us, and let this be put away once and for all. Otherwise, wither the claimed and professed mutual respect?
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written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 09:42:23
Indeed Pete - They'd never want to understand, when it is their ego talking.

They'll have a million excuses to justify their small-mindedness.
They'll also give a million reasons as to why they should be understood, rather than seeking to understand - just as the suicide bombers worldwide.
These are the people who are prone to create social problems everywhere.

No amount of reason would suffice to get rid of the chauvinism in some people.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 09:49:07
BAJU KURUNG HAS TO BE BOYCOTTED AS WELL?

Dear Counterpointer,

For ceremonies, the Royals are given the rights to modify the rules accordingly. Songkok is a non-religious cultural headgear.

If DAP wants to make such a boycott on songkok, then I think it looks logical to ask their lady MPs to boycott any appointment as any Minister or Deputy Minister.

Why?

10. Presentation of Letter of Appointment, Taking of the Oath of Office and Oaths of Allegiane and Secrecy of the Prime Minister/Ministers/ Deputy Ministers

For ladies:
1) Baju Kurung with selendang
2) Kebaya Labuh with selendang

3) Respective National Dress


See, the ladies have no choice. They have to wear the Malay Baju Kurung or Kebaya Labuh, COMPULSORY NOT VOLUNTARY. So, if the Songkok, which is a Malay but not Religious Headgear can be boycotted, then going through that line Malay Baju Kurung or Kebaya Labuh would be boycotted as well. I am speechless, if that is the sort of outdated leadership one wants to execute. What do they call it again? Leadership by Example. Good, continue all the "opposition" work if that is all you want to become. I shall help you scream "Opposition Forever". Tahu Bangkang saja, never do research.

Crap mentality. Good luck. Chinese always say they are pragmatic. Doesn't look like that to me. Richard Branson is pragmatic and open-minded. Maybe Westerners are pragmatic and open-minded but certainly not the Malaysian chinese looking at this aspect.

Hereby, I applaud Richard Branson for appreciating "Malaysian culture" although he is not a "Malaysian".

Goodness gracious. Looks like all the 1960s crap perception is still being retained in the millennium.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 10:22:11
This will be my last say on the songkok issue as I suspect BN cybertropers are invading this tread. A songkok is a symbol, like cross or a buddha pendent, and symbols carry deep seated meanings for people. You can ask a muslim to wear a chinese dress, but you cannot ask him to wear certain symbols which may contridict his belief system. The extracts below from the net (and there are plenty more}, says it all.

"Songkok is a famous traditional hat for MUSLIM MEN in the region of South East Asia. It normally in black, comes in different sizes, and sometimes accompanied with a beautiful embroidery batik design (with the gold thread) that one can either put it on or off." http://www.malaysiangifts.citymax.com/songkok.html

"The songkok became a familiar sight in the Malay archipelago around the 13th century when Islam began to take roots in the region. The rise in popularity of the songkok were apparently viz-a-viz the propogation of Islam, and this was quite logical because the religion encourages it followeres to cover their he***. In fact it is considered sunat (voluntary good deed) for the Muslim males to don a headgear provided that is is done in good taste." http://www.bruneiresources.com/bruneisongkok.html

People like L Chuah and myself are merely pointing out why wearing the songkok is sensitive to some people. Will a muslim pay respect to jesus if this is part of protocol when meeting the Queen of England?

Of course, we can choose to shut our ears to complaints when Hishammudin weaved the kris as part of UMNO's protocol, and everyone affected should numb their sensitivity. Maybe, in the spirit of muhhibah, it is not insensitive for me to insist a muslim friend asking for my help who vists my house to pay respect to my ancestor as part of my protocol (since my house is my palace). May be it will become common one day for christians, buddhists and hindus to wear songkok to their respective place of worship and for muslim to wear cheong sum to mosque. May be it is alright for people to dring beer in the road side wearing a songkok as it is not a religious symbol. May be one day all sensitivities will disappear once we tagged any activity as part of protocol.

If you can understand why all these impositions are sensitive to you, you can understand why what you imposed on others can be sensitive to them. Yes, I agree DAP should accomodate, but don't get angry with them for feeling the sensitivity just be cause you cannot feel or understand.
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written by damarwulan, March 17, 2008 10:43:01
Knowing that funding will not come from the Federal, is there any articles in the states legislature that allows the citizens and companies in that state to pay taxes or tithe to the states and deduct the same from the federal income or profit taxes? There are some qualified lawyers and 'peguam' in PAS and accountants that have knowledge on these that can advise the CM/MB of the Alternative Goverment.Please assist.
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written by teo siew chin, March 17, 2008 11:53:06
Dear Damarwulan

You reckon the federal gomen will further incur the wrath of the rakyat by withholding funds?
you reckon they will AGAIN choose to ignore the needs of the rakyat?
you reckon that by now, they are still lost as to how to win back the trust and support of the rakyat?
if so, say bye-bye to a comeback kid then!
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 11:54:19
Milo, perhaps you are part of the BN cybertroopers for disuniting Malaysians using a racist theory.

How many times do I have to write my comments to say that Songkok came originally during the spread of Islam in South East Asia. However, today it is no longer bound by religion.

Arabs do not wear songkok. Malays, Indonesians and Bruneians are the only people who wear songkok because that is a cultural traditional headgear.

Looks like Aisehman understands better:

Unlike the tudung, which is a religious head covering, the Malay songkok, like the Arab kefiyyeh, is a traditional headdress.

Some Muslim Malay men wear the songkok to cover the head, usually during prayers. It is not worn because Islam requires the songkok itself to be worn.


Link: http://www.aisehman.org/archiv..._cock.html

Besides, Balinese Hinus have its version of "songkok" called destar . They are not Muslims and they wear it daily. Goodness gracious, I wrote that earlier.

That is the thing Milo, you like to put yourself in a box. You like to be racist and disunite Malaysians.
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written by bananachinese, March 17, 2008 12:12:52
Which pill would you take, Teng Chang Khim?
Blue or Red pill?

http://mylivingwall.com/v2/blog/?p=66
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 12:20:14
Milo: People like L Chuah and myself are merely pointing out why wearing the songkok is sensitive to some people. Will a muslim pay respect to jesus if this is part of protocol when meeting the Queen of England?


Songkok is not equivalent to praying to Nabi Mohammad. Songkok is cultural and not a religious headgear in year 2000 and above (How many times do you want me to say that?). Queen of England does not dictate Muslims to pray to Jesus in her ceremonies.

Poor example, show me the proof

However, Muslims and other non-Christians should respect the Queen's religion in her Palace. Nothing wrong with that. Even non-Muslims should respect to the Sultan's religion. That is common sense. Goodness gracious, does that need to be a protocol?

Milo: Of course, we can choose to shut our ears to complaints when Hishammudin weaved the kris as part of UMNO's protocol, and everyone affected should numb their sensitivity.


Wearing songkok is not equivalent to threatening people of other religion or races.
Wielding keris depending on words and deeds used may be equivalent to threatening people of other religion. For example, if I wield keris and say I will bathe it in blood, yes that is threatening.

Wearing songkok is a symbol of respect to the Sultan.

Poor example, comparing two different things altogether.

Maybe, in the spirit of muhhibah, it is not insensitive for me to insist a muslim friend asking for my help who vists my house to pay respect to my ancestor as part of my protocol (since my house is my palace). May be it will become common one day for christians, buddhists and hindus to wear songkok to their respective place of worship and for muslim to wear cheong sum to mosque. May be it is alright for people to dring beer in the road side wearing a songkok as it is not a religious symbol. May be one day all sensitivities will disappear once we tagged any activity as part of protocol.


That is not part of the protocol in Palace Ceremonies. Spirit of Muhibbah denotes respect. When we meet Sultan, it is ok to wear a songkok. Protocol is only for official governance functions. Sultan is the Head-of-State. Appointment of Ministers to help govern the land of the Sultan is an Official National Function.

The examples you illustrated above are NOT OFFICIAL FUNCTIONS. So, there is no necessity to make them as protocols.

Poor example. To reduce insensitivity, the leaders should lead and show the good way of accepting all things Malaysian.

If you can understand why all these impositions are sensitive to you, you can understand why what you imposed on others can be sensitive to them. Yes, I agree DAP should accomodate, but don't get angry with them for feeling the sensitivity just be cause you cannot feel or understand.


Good if they can actually accommodate. There is a reason to get angry if leaders do not research / investigate before coming to a conclusion. If leaders go by false impressions, this will encourage their people to practise according to the false impression.

There is every reason to be angry. A leader should apologise when mistakes are made. On a separate issue, Lim Kit Siang is one of the leaders who set a good example on apologising when mistakes are made. To err is human, to forgive divine. I thank him for that, forgive him and encourage others to support.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by teo siew chin, March 17, 2008 12:27:00
when we have such storms abrewing, i kinda miss Otak Udang's 'philosophy' smilies/cry.gif
too bad OU's abandoned us!
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 12:29:29
Milo, according to the link you posted http://www.bt.com.bn/en/featur..._or_kopiah it states this .....

Excerpt :
After a period of time the wearing of songkok became a tradition and synonymous with being a Malay. It became the symbol of a Malay. Over time it replaced the dastar as part of the Malay's national dress on most formal occasions.

Again I am telling you, it is a Malay cultural headgear and no longer religious in this millennium. Arab Muslims don't wear such a thing.


Bush (White race) and Putin (Russian race) in Chinese cultural dress. Are they chinese now? I don't think so.

Malaysian chinese should be open-minded and pragmatic. Please do research before coming to a false impression and conclusion.
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 12:43:26
Sagaladoola, I just can't resist responding.

1. You spin better than NST. I was talking about perception and you are talking about reality. I am talking about some people are sensitive, you are talking as if I said all people are sensitive to the songkok.

2. The picture you show is leaders wearing the attire that have no bearing on their belief system, that is why they wear it. Simple: If I tell you to wear a headgear with a cross, as a muslim, will you wear it (even when muslim also believe in Jesus)?

My friend, shouting, name calling and being rude will never make your arguement sound or sensible. The readers feedback through the voting system here is the real reflection on whose's views make sense. It is THE MIRROR!

Don't be like another Hishamuddin who argues the Kris is ONLY A UMNO PROTOCOL!
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written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 12:45:17
Saga,
No point laa .... pig-headedness takes time to heal.

They come in all colors and education levels,
with a million excuses as to why they are justified in being that way.

They'll never admit to being pig-headed, anyways ....

Just gotta be patient for a while. hoping that they'll change.
If they insist on being confrontational, they'll get what they bargained for in due time.

What goes around comes around ....
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written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 12:48:04
BT Saga,
All this reminds me of the "necktie" being touted as a "Christian attire" by some mullahs of Pakistan - same thing here ..... but with people drawing pig-headed analogies of a different kind.
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written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 12:48:46
I meant BTW Saga, ...
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written by renoir, March 17, 2008 13:00:44
Milo wrote:
"Songkok is a famous traditional hat for MUSLIM MEN in the region of South East Asia. It normally in black, comes in different sizes, and sometimes accompanied with a beautiful embroidery batik design (with the gold thread) that one can either put it on or off." ]]http://www.malaysiangifts.citymax.com/songkok.html]]

The quote is a good reminder that not all cultural practices necessarily remain or are percieved as such for all time. Not too long ago, Christians found it offensive to be told not to utter the word "Jesus" during Christmas by an UMNO minister. It could be said that the UMNO minister did no wrong, as the origin of Christmas was after all pagan. But as time passes it became associated with Christianity, and therefore is considered a sacred occasion by at least some Christians. Same thing with arguments some months ago by some readers that most Muslim practices were actually cultural in origin, some Arabic and some even Hindu. The epithet "stone-worshippers" is offensive to many Muslims, even though some people have argued for the non-Koranic source of the Kaabah, or the stone's cultural origins.

Like race and ethnicity, the definition of what's cultural and what's religious are often fluid and subject to different interpretations. This is especially so with the passage of time. That some old Chinese might hold on to the songkok-religion nexus, and even more so to the songkok-oppression metonymy, is not surprising.

LChuah
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written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 13:12:01
Im confused. On one had, Malaysia claims to be a multiracial country and on the other hand the culture and traditions of other races are not officially accepted. Leaders whether the ruling party, opposition and even the royalty should accept and appreciate our diverse culture and racial make out. There should be no ruling that only malay traditional costume can be worn for official functions. This is showing blatant disregard for the other races. I think it should be up to individual whether they want to use a traditional comstume of any race or a suit. Previously the police already started this nonsense whereby non malays were forced to use tudung for marches. Not palaces are enforcing use of songkok. From reliable souces I have also been told that certain goverment bodies force the non malays to us only Baju Kebaya or Baju Kurung for official functions and other traditional costumes such as saree, salwaar kameez and cheongsam are not allowed. For heavens sake, if the government wants to promote racial intergration, they should not enforce one race culture and traditions on another. Instead we should accept and respect the culture and traditions of each other.

I hope all goverment bodies including the palaces will stop this racialistic way of doing things. Its an individuals right what he or she wants to wear as long as he/she is dressed decently and appropriately.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 13:21:37
Milo : 1. You spin better than NST. I was talking about perception and you are talking about reality. I am talking about some people are sensitive, you are talking as if I said all people are sensitive to the songkok.

2. The picture you show is leaders wearing the attire that have no bearing on their belief system, that is why they wear it. Simple: If I tell you to wear a headgear with a cross, as a muslim, will you wear it (even when muslim also believe in Jesus)?


Reply: Wearing songkok is not equivalent to asking a Muslim or Buddhist wearing a cross or an image of Jesus (which is religious in nature). Repeat : Songkok is a Malay cultural headgear and its wearer is not necessarily Muslim, not necessarily bearing to belief system. Therefore, it is the same as those leaders wearing the chinese dress.

I am talking about both perception and reality. It is wrong to perceive Songkok is only for Muslims in the new Millennium when in reality is not that limited.

It is weird that you say that I am spinning when you painted it the wrong way earlier.

My friend, shouting, name calling and being rude will never make your arguement sound or sensible. The readers feedback through the voting system here is the real reflection on whose's views make sense. It is THE MIRROR!


Seems like you are shouting now. It's ok with the voting system. In a democracy, there is another thing called "freedom of speech" associated with voting system. I have no issues with that.

Don't be like another Hishamuddin who argues the Kris is ONLY A UMNO PROTOCOL!


It seems you reflect more like him. I said songkok is for all to wear (no monopoly) while you perceive "Songkok is a Muslim protocol" ?

Hehehehe, cruzeiro, it is ok ... I have been with Malaysia Today earlier during its first version when it was tied up with blogger.com . I have seen all sorts of things if you get what I mean.

smilies/cheesy.gif

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 13:22:26
That some old Chinese might hold on to the songkok-religion nexus, and even more so to the songkok-oppression metonymy, is not surprising.

===================

Indeed, Chuah -
While what you say may be true, the argument here is with regard to the fact that,
the leadership should lead the way in promoting reality
and not "perceptions", prejudices and "fantasies".

While understanding them, It would therefore be unwise to be an apologist for these misguided souls - lest you encourage their ignorance, which is destructive.

That is the crux of the matter here - not the academic discussion as why they are that way ....
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written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 13:27:13
To some people this may be a small matter. But to some, its a matter of principal. Being a multi racial country unlike most other countries, we should respect the attire of all races and they all should be officially accepted. The malay baju and songkok is a malay traditional costume, not the national costume of Malaysia. Just as when I go out, if a child or beggar ask me for money saying he wants to eat food, as a matter of principal although I could just give him RM1 ringgit and send him off, I would ask him to eat whatever he wants from the restaurant and pay for it which of course would cost me more, but like I said its a matter of principal. If I give the child the money, an adult would probably take it from him and if I were to give the adult beggar money, he would probably buy a bottle of cheap whisky. So we all have different perceptions and principals.And its our right to decide to stand by our principals.

Being a multi racial country, its not easy nor fair to enforce one races culture and traditions on another although we respect each other culture and traditions and that should be the way. Any Malaysians having a party where friends of all races are invited would always ensure that the food is halal and no pork served. The same cannot be said for the Malays who when they have a party would still serve beef despite knowing that hindus and buddist do not eat beef. In fact when the company I work for used to have office parties, if its organised by Malays, very often most of the dishes ordered would have beef, but of organised by a non malay, the food would always be halal and no pork. And mind you, every staff pays the same amount of money for the party, but then the indians and chinese many not be able to eat the food, and may have to be content with the soft drinks and maybe some kuey. Is this what we want in Malaysia. Im sure all of us want a country where we all learn to intergrate and respect each others culture and traditions. But enforcing such rules that only Malay baju and songkok must be worn and for ladies only baju kurung and kebaya can be worn, it contradicts our whole concept of being a multi racial country.
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 13:27:36
written by Sagaladoola: It seems you reflect more like him. I said songkok is for all to wear (no monopoly) while you perceive "Songkok is a Muslim protocol" ?
_________________________________________

Songkok may be for all to wear, but why force on those who don't want to for their reasons? By the way, the churches and temples are also for all to pray, why not you pray there too? You are really funny smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 13:29:10
Hi LChuah,

Not being offensive....

Just a question, if the perception on reality is wrong, do you think we need to amend our ways to the correct interpretation?

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 13:32:59
Hi LChuah, To add.... Correct interpretation as in going according with the times (i.e. in year 200smilies/cool.gif.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 13:57:05
Milo: Songkok may be for all to wear, but why force on those who don't want to for their reasons? By the way, the churches and temples are also for all to pray, why not you pray there too? You are really funny


Poor example. Wearing songkok is not equivalent to submitting to Islam. It is not even compulsory for a Muslim to wear songkok while praying because Songkok is a Malay headgear and not bound to religion.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by RasuahMinister, March 17, 2008 14:02:13
Hiyah you peoples, now we should concentrate not on racial/religious matters, what we should do right now is all races hand in hand, choose a nice Sunday, carrying big sledge hammers, drills and stuffs, and then all of us tear down unneccesary PLAZA TOLLS in Selangor area and other states.
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written by RasuahMinister, March 17, 2008 14:03:52
I believe there will be millions of Malaysians willing to do this job
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written by RasuahMinister, March 17, 2008 14:06:08
The fiest PLAZA TOLL I want to tear down is the Phileo Damansara one.
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 14:32:34
written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 | 13:29:10

Hi LChuah,
Not being offensive....
Just a question, if the perception on reality is wrong, do you think we need to amend our ways to the correct interpretation?
_________________________________________

You cannot correct without understanding the other party point of views and why they hold on to this perception. You also cannot demand that others' are wrong just because you say so. Sometimes, if you hold that your thinking is so right, it can turn out so wrong. UMNO falls is precisely because of this arrogance.

Let me repeat: No one is against wearing the Songkok. It is just that it is an unwise approach to compel those who harbours sensitivity towards the hat to wear it. You cannot make a flawed protocol right just because of the power to impliment it, you can only right it by changing it in tune with principles like fairness, sensibleness and respect for others' beliefs and values.
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 14:40:46

SURPRISE......SURPRISE.....SURPRISE...!!!!

GROUPS OF WELL WORN BRAINS.....YET...UNABLE TO DISTINGUISH....

......THE ELBOW AND THE ARSE....!!!


TSK, TSK TSK...


...............
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 14:48:29
Hi Milo,
Not being offensive....
Just a question, if the perception on reality is wrong, do you think we need to amend our ways to the correct latest interpretation?

Yes or No ?
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written by hellosunshine, March 17, 2008 14:58:42
I can't get Selangor's palace protocol but I did manage to get to the Yang Di-Pertuan Agong's site where the dress code is specified. See link - http://www.malaysianmonarchy.o...BI=Dresses for Ceremonies and Functions

It is stated and I quote
•Western Dress

Dark Lounge Suit

(i) Dark Lounge Suit;
(ii) White collared shirt;
(iii) Dark tie;
(iv) Black socks;
(v) Black leather shoes;
(vi) With Songkok for Muslims.


All said, if the palace protocol dictates that one MUST wear a songkok during official ceremonies, then one must abide by the protocol. If not, it is up to the individual's discretion.

Anyway, I think this is really a small issue and we should move on and see the bigger picture instead of harping and wasting everybody's precious time and energy on this small issue.

I wonder what's the real purpose for bringing up this issue again and again in MT. We all know majority of us are racists in one way or another, no thanks to the 50 years of BN rule and brainwashing.

Can we really be able to make a conscious effort to change our mindset and attitude?
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 15:04:35
hellosunshine : All said, if the palace protocol dictates that one MUST wear a songkok during official ceremonies, then one must abide by the protocol. If not, it is up to the individual's discretion.


hellosunshine, thanks ... What you said is right... That is quite pragmatic.
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written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 15:05:17
Although I do not agree with Milo's analogy of eating pork and wearing the songkok, I do agree with him that it should be voluntary and not forced. Yes there is nothing wrong in wearing the songkok, but in the same token, there is nothing wrong in wearing any traditional costume as long as its decent. Yes as RPK said every function do have a dress code, even clubs have dress code but dress code can be stated as traditional or suit etc, intead of must wear songkok. They can enforce certain rules to the dress code, such as no sleeveless for the ladies, not revealing and nothing below the knee, no slippers and sandals etc, but after reading all the comments I still do not agree to enforcing the songkok or any traditional costume as I said previously, songkok is a part of a malay costume and not a malaysian constume. What if the US were to state that all people invited for official functions at the white house have to use skirt and blouse for ladies and suit for men. What happens to the muslim women who cover themselves, or the Arab men who are invited, what would they do. US is a predominantly white country yet they do not enforce such rules as its only right to respect the culture and traditions of all races. We should never enforce such things but there can be a proper dress code but it should not be that only a certain type of dress can be worn.

I remember many years ago, when my mum and dad was awarded titles from the Sultan of Johor, my dad wore a suit and my mum a saree, there was no issue then as all traditional costumes were allowed. Since when has the ruling changed that must wear songkok and must wear baju melayu for the ladies. If this ruling has been changed, then it seems our country is going backwards instead of forward and our leaders need to go through these rulings again to ensure it reflects our multi racial society. Many years ago, we were all open to our friends culture and tradition, we accepted it with open arms and respected it, now why the enforcements even on traditional costumes.

Maybe some of the bloggers who said they should wear songkok can enlighten me on the following :-

1. What if a sikh man who wears a turban is conferred a Datukship and is required to go to the palace for the ceremony of awards, would he have to replace his turban with a songkok? Wouldn't that be disrespectful towards his religion and going against his religion?

Its clear that although all malaysians of various races wear each others traditional costume especially the ladies, it is on voluntary basis, and not forced. We do it because we respect each others culture and traditions. I have malay friends who wear saree and salwaar kameez and I have chinese friends who wear baju kurung and kebaya, saree and salwaar kameez and I also have indian friends who wear baju kurung, kebaya and cheongsam.

Lets not try to disrespect other cultures and traditions by saying theirs are not accepted officially, as by not allowing every race to wear their respective traditional costumes for official functions, that is exactly what we are telling them, again going back to racial divide which Im sure none of us want.

We are all adults and should be allowed to make such decisions and stand by our principles if we feel strongly about something.

Yes this may be a small issue compared to all the other more important issues, but seeing from the number of responses, it does touch the hearts of the people as it directly affects the acceptance of their race, culture, traditions and religion in a multi racial country such as ours.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 15:09:46
hellosunshine, the last one very clearly states songkok for muslims, which means non muslims do not need to wear songkok. So why all the fuss. I think that is fair enough, they are not enforcing it on non muslims or non malays.
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written by Rhan, March 17, 2008 15:17:09
Not being offensive....
Just a question, if the perception on reality is wrong, do you think we need to amend our ways to the correct latest interpretation?

Yes or No ?

Of course YES but have you people did that? and how? Therefore we should start to educate the people and maybe here is a good start by telling the people including Teng wearing a songkok have nothing to do with religion. But, i am curious to know, are you very sure that all the Malay and Muslim agree with your perception? Have you check with them?
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 15:22:12
written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 | 15:09:46
hellosunshine, the last one very clearly states songkok for muslims, which means non muslims do not need to wear songkok. So why all the fuss. I think that is fair enough, they are not enforcing it on non muslims or non malays.
_____________________________________

I thought so as I read the line. Can perhaps Sagodala please explain?
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 15:22:18
Yes, Rhan, I have checked with a number of Malay males and females. I make it a point to do research before speaking.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 15:23:51
fairnessforall, sometimes palace may alter their rules and regulation according to state. I think if the alteration is not bound to religion, I think we should not do so much of "opposition" on them.
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 15:31:19
written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 | 15:23:51
fairnessforall, sometimes palace may alter their rules and regulation according to state. I think if the alteration is not bound to religion, I think we should not do so much of "opposition" on them.
___________________________________

So you see! Protocol can be changed! In this case, it has just changed from a non-sensitive one to a sensitive one. The question is why take this retrogressive step?
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 15:55:14
Ohh Milo, that means you agree with DAP leaders boycotting the event so that the Sultan, which is the ruler and monarch of this land to change it instead of wearing a cultural headgear in respect of him?

Ok. Fine by me. Do it and recommend to the DAP leaders. I am sure the Malay citizens and Malay royals would be very happy with your suggestion and know how to vote in the next election.

Maybe the Malay royals and citizens will think how understanding it is for these chinese to do that. Very understanding indeed. Yes, it can be changed.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 16:10:31
written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 | 15:55:14
Ohh Milo, that means you agree with DAP leaders boycotting the event so that the Sultan, which is the ruler and monarch of this land to change it instead of wearing a cultural headgear in respect of him?
_________________________________

You are really a spin doctor. I said none of those. And all the threats given and pitting malays against non-malays is typical of a blue-blood UMNO cyper trooper. For you respect is based on rules, power and demand, not principles of fairness and respect for others. It won't work saga, people today are too smart as UMNO has found out. Your kind will found out too - one day!
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written by Rhan, March 17, 2008 16:11:15
But Sagaladoola, when i raise the same question, most of the reply is they are not very sure, how? We been criticize the running dog for umpteen year and now suddenly just by winning some seat, we all become bangsa Malaysia? All this while MCA did look at the big picture and why we give up on them? Can the Royalty help to look at the big picture also since they love their people so much?

I don’t think our Royalty has such narrow mind. Or Maybe I am wrong?
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 16:38:21
Dear Milo .... I am a Barisan Rakyat supporter, wrote mails to Malaysiakini regarding Cybertroopers even shooting them on my site since years past. I do not know how you come to that conclusion. I do not like all this taboo stuff but hey maybe you are right but I am wrong.

Yes, Milo. Perhaps you are right after all. I am wrong. I should not pit the Malays against the Non-Malays. Yes, I am a spin doctor and that is my fault.

Maybe I should agree with your suggestion. Maybe Sultan, the Monarch of the Land should respect that Chinese Leaders cannot wear Songkok because although it is a Malay headgear, the people have sensitivities on it.

Oh yeah, the argument started with some leaders being mentioned in the article boycotting official functions that require songkok by the way. So, perhaps the Sultan should understand that and change his rules.

I did not add this but read the article at the top.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 16:43:33
Well, I am sure Rhan, I am sure ..... Articles provided above.

I am not sure whether the Royalty is not narrow-minded. In my opinion, the Chinese leaders are not narrow-minded too although some reject official palace functions when being told to wear a Malay cultural but not necessarily religious headgear. Is that a good Malaysian mindset? I do not know .....

Milo is open-minded I am sure.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 16:54:52

Friends, Bloggers & Countrymen,

Lend me your ears..!

While we were swimming in one remote corner of Our ( yet to be born) Honourable Fathers’ Jewels,

Our Honourable Fathers Honourable Fathers found life difficult in the land of their birth.

So Our Honourable Fathers Courageous Fathers decided to leave behind the safety of their HOMOGENOUS SURROUNDINGS and embark on a journey to A DISTANT LAND WITH DIFFERENT CULTURES, to seek a better future for themselves and their progeny.

Few reached dry land whilst many joined the food chain in the tempestuous oceans as ordained in Nature’s Ecological Laws.

On reaching dry land, Our Honourable Fathers Courageous Fathers applied the CONCORDANCE APPROACH to gain acceptance amongst the local people.

Commonsense dictates that had Our Honourable Fathers Courageous Fathers LACK WISDOM and CARRIED WITHIN EGO THE SIZE OF AN OSTRICH EGG and strictly followed their own cultural upbringing ( value system) regardless whether it goes against the mores of the local customs….then…FRIENDS, BLOGGERS & COUNTRYMEN,
we will not be here today.

We were very, very fortunate Our Honourable Fathers WISE Fathers were not Graduates of Harvard, Oxford etc etc

...............
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 16:56:01
For you respect is based on rules, power and demand, not principles of fairness and respect for others.


Last I heard we are a Constitutional Monarchy and it is a set of rules. The Monarch is indeed a powerful figure under the Constitution last I checked, the Highest on the Land as far as I can remember. It is written in the Constitution just like the Queen of England.

As for arguments of "Demand" that you mentioned, maybe you are right. The Sultan may have asked too much if he chooses to request non-Malays to put on a "sensitive" Malay headgear.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by hellosunshine, March 17, 2008 17:02:36
I always make it a point to check and hear both sides to an argument or allegation.
I checked Teng's site - http://www.tengchangkhim.blogspot.com/ - and he made some clarifications on the allegations RPK made in MT.
I take it that he's telling the gospel truth in his clarifications and I suggest we all move on and not get all worked up over nothing.
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written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 17:18:58
written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 | 15:23:51
fairnessforall, sometimes palace may alter their rules and regulation according to state. I think if the alteration is not bound to religion, I think we should not do so much of "opposition" on them.
___________________________________

So you see! Protocol can be changed! In this case, it has just changed from a non-sensitive one to a sensitive one. The question is why take this retrogressive step?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sagadoola, the issue is not why take this retrogressive step, although I feel for now, maybe he should just do it and get on with it and later address the issue by virtue of us being a multi racial country. But the matter is still something to look into. Fistly, there seem to be confusion as to what the songkok represents. While some feel it represents being a muslim, some feels it represents being a malay. The fact that the agung's palace dress code states "songkok for muslims" gives the impression that it is a muslim thing, they did not state "songkok for malays" but "songkok for muslims". Thus there seem to be alot of confusion here and each one of us would come to our own conclusion based on how we understand the statement.

Our constitution guarantees that all races will be allowed to practice their own religion, customs and traditions freely, so by enforcing the songkok on non malays/non muslims, this goes against their culture and traditions. And Im sure our royalty will not want to be seen as depriving non malays/ non muslim of practicing their rights and religion of which their traditional costume is part of. Im fact our lawmakers should uphold our constitution and the fact the Malaysia is a multi racial country and they should also be seen to be fair to all Malaysians. All malaysians give full respect to the royalty and of course we want our Agung and Sultans to be fair to all subjects and take into considerations the other races. I know its not the Agung or Sultans that come out with these rules and regulations but probably his secretary or whoever is in charge of palace protocol, thus these people should be careful when coming with such rules and should take into consideration that Malaysia is a multi racial country.

No one has answered my question about what if a sikh guy wearing a turban has to attend a ceremony. Would an exception be made in his case? Seems no one has an answer.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 17:21:37
From http://tengchangkhim.blogspot....ngkok.html

Clarification on songkok
It is not a requirement to wear songkok in the Chamber of the State Assembly for swearing-in ceremony, annual openning ceremony or meeting. It is only a requirement in the palace when seeking audience or attending function, except the the state dinner or black tie dinner. This requirement has been made compulsory by HRH Sultan sometime in 2002.
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 17:40:54

written by renoir, March 17, 2008 | 07:16:37

01) And oh - I forgot, mimag, you might find many an older person couldn't care less about datukships.

Aiyah.....we are 26 million strong....... u want to split hairs..???


02) Some, like Lee Kuan Yew, even considered it an indication of being "bought" by the other side.

Aiyoyo apah!!!.. this fella..... you know where our nation’s wealth being parked..???


Ah Khoh ah....Please lah.......


...............

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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 17:41:28
fairnessforall : Sagadoola, the issue is not why take this retrogressive step, although I feel for now, maybe he should just do it and get on with it and later address the issue by virtue of us being a multi racial country.


hi fairnessforall,

Your answer should be for Milo , not me lah. I did not mention anything about retrogressive. He was the one who mentioned. Read above.

As for the Sikh guy matter, that should be escalated back to the istana to decide for the right thing to do, as simple as that.

I have checked, Songkok is a cultural headgear. It is not even compulsory for Muslims to wear it while praying. Check my researches above.

I think Raja Petra said it correct on compromise. Originally, there are no Deputy Menteri Besar positions but the Sultan in some states are understanding enough to create the position for non-Malays. With it comes title, salary and all sorts of good things.

I am sure they understand the multi-racial approach. There is this concept of give-and-take . If the Sultan can open up such position... well, I dunno, asking for someone to wear a songkok in official functions is too much? Well, I dunno what to say. You decide for yourself.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 17:48:03
fairnessforall : Our constitution guarantees that all races will be allowed to practice their own religion, customs and traditions freely, so by enforcing the songkok on non malays, this goes against their culture and traditions


Wearing t-shirt is a Western culture and tradition. It seems it is acceptable by people like you. Wearing songkok for official function is a Malay culture and tradition, it is not acceptable and considered enforced? Is that discrimination? I am not going to spin. You answer to yourself.

Songkok is cultural and not bound by religion.
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written by fairnessforall, March 17, 2008 18:20:17
...
written by Sagaladoola, March 17, 2008 | 17:48:03

fairnessforall : Our constitution guarantees that all races will be allowed to practice their own religion, customs and traditions freely, so by enforcing the songkok on non malays, this goes against their culture and traditions


Wearing t-shirt is a Western culture and tradition. It seems it is acceptable by people like you. Wearing songkok for official function is a Malay culture and tradition, it is not acceptable and considered enforced? Is that discrimination? I am not going to spin. You answer to yourself.

Songkok is cultural and not bound by religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sagadoola, I think u need to brush up your english language. Who is talking about acceptable or not acceptable. I said it should not be enforced and should be up to individuals decision as it still goes back to culture and tradition. And for your information, did the west enforce the t-shirt on asians, ur remark on this does not make any sense. What has using a t-shirt by own choice have to do with being forced to do something. Suggest you read and understand peoples comments, as Milo said, you are just spinning and beating around the bush and getting emotional. You are just arguing for the sake or arguing and without any substance.

Again, let me make it clear, we are not talking about acceptable or not acceptable, we are talking about what is right and fair to all malaysians by virtue of being a multi racial country where wearing or following culture, traditions and believes of another race or religion should be by choice and voluntarily done and not forced. If I choose to wear a Baju kebaya, its my wish, but no one has the right to force me to wear it. Forcing ones culture on another is just not acceptable, whether its connected to religion or not, does not make any difference. As a multi racial country, we all have our own culture, traditions and believes. I believe that I have given enough examples to proof my point, but you are just arguing for the sake of arguing without giving any concrete examples and without substance. I dont know whether you are purposely misunderstanding peoples comments or you really do not understand what they are saying.

Anyway, its a waste of my time arguing with someone who thinks he only is right and only he has the right to have opinions. To each his own. So your have your right to ur opinion and I have my right to my opinion. The sky is no purple just because you said it is.

Even if you say songkok is cultural and not bound to religion, so what you are saying is that its ok to enforce ones culture on another? Suggest you think what you are saying before you pass such ridiculous comments. We are a democratic country not under communist or military rule.
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 18:23:32

Hi Cruzeiro,

written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 | 12:45:17

If they insist on being confrontational, they'll get what they bargained for in due time.
................................................

Prophetic indeed..!


I just hope our Friends, Bloggers & Countrymen inherit at least 1 GRAM OF WISDOM from their Hounourable Fathers WISE FATHERS......!!!


................
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written by mimag2005, March 17, 2008 19:01:21

Hey Fellas,

...Stop being a HARD HEadED, PRICKLY DURIAN...!!!

....Aromatic for many....... Disgusting for few ...???


.....BE A TOMATO INSTEad.....!

.....LOVED BY ALL.......

......WITH NATURE’S COMPLIMENTS.....!


................
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 19:38:20
Sagaladoola, ok we are on the same side..so let's discuss issue civilly...no names calling. I shouldn't too.

One the songkok issue, you should stop writing as though "I don't get it!" about the protocol which is compulsory. I have said more than one time I would have wore it and get on with the job. Clear?

The thrust of my arguement is, just because it is official protocol issued from the palace does not mean it is a wise thing. The palace have the power to exercise its rights, no doubt, but if it touches on people's sensitivity, our ruler know. A wise ruler would wants to know that anyway, and he is suppose to exercise his discretion wisely. As his 'subjects' in a modern world, we do not want to behave like the UMNO stooges who are only there to please the PM and make him feel he can do no wrong. If the Palace do not wish to change despite knowing, then it is up to them. But anywhere in the world, you can never expect respect if you do not respect other's sensitivity, that you are the ruler notwithstanding.

The saying "if you do not stand for something, you will fall for anything." applies. You can even see people defying the power (BN in our case) to stand against evil doings to the extent of willing to go under ISA. (Now please do not write I equate the Ruler's protocol to evil deed, I did not, and the action does not amount to that.)

The wisest thing to do is not critisize and threaten those who held such sensitivity, but to influence them by understanding them and through proper education.

If it is clear, let's move on.
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written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 21:07:15
written by cruzeiro, March 17, 2008 | 12:45:17

If they insist on being confrontational, they'll get what they bargained for in due time.
===============

With regard to the above sentence that I wrote,
allow me to state that it wasn't a "threat".
I understand that some may choose to perceive it as such
and defend such perceptions in honour of their forefathers/heritage/race/religion or their manhoods - yep, highly possible .....
It was just what is seen in the horizon, when you brew prejudice and justify it.
Sooner or later, that is what it will come to.

Believe it or not, we have the "holy trinity" of UMNO, MCA and MIC to thank for this.
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written by Milo, March 17, 2008 22:50:34
Yes, you are right cruzeiro, it will come true one day unless we get rid of people like those in Umno and like You. Everytime someone disagree with a percieved unfair imposition and unnecessarily intererance of their right, they (and people like yiou) will say it is "confrontational". In your opinion, we better don't question anything and act like stooges. Fortunately, these types of dinosaur thinking is on the way out.
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written by sonofman0, March 17, 2008 23:55:57
No wonder ALIENS from OUTER SPACE prefer not to reveal themselves to earthlings!

Let's put ourselves in their shoes. All this fuss over something we put on our brain box!

Now we know for sure why the United Nations is so often in a shambles!
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written by Mimi, March 18, 2008 00:10:06
Wow...i had no idea what a powerful tool a songkok is!!!! I ve read nearly all the comments posted here and I can see that despite the replies, retorts and slip slap...the issue somehow is not resolved. AND its all started with a SONGKOK. Damn, I ve been taking that piece of songkok in the cupboard for granted. Didnt know what it actually reflect.

Now..how in the WORLD are we gonna be united to rule and conquer if we cannot resolve this SONGKOK issue...hmmm..for all we know while we are busy arguing here about this little black/darkblue velvet thing u put on the head, BN and their kuncus wearing their SONGKOK are planning a coup de tat BEHIND OUR VERY BACK!!!!

FOR GODS SAKE GIVE THE SONGKOK A REST WILL YA!!!
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written by renoir, March 18, 2008 00:38:11
>The wisest thing to do is not critisize and threaten those who held such sensitivity, but to influence them by understanding them and through proper education.]]

Well said, Milo. Right from the beginning, I'd said, like you, that I'd no difficulty wearing a songkok. And in my postings on this matter, I'd proposed that those who'd felt the brunt of racial discrimination should nevertheless be magnanimous and "reach out to one another, and a simple first step could be obeying protocol set by the sultan."

The only difference between us and those who want the same thing is a call to understand why certain older-generation Chinese reacted to the songkok the way they did. As you said, "the wisest thing to do is not critisize and threaten those who held such sensitivity, but to influence them by understanding them and through proper education."

This group of older generation Chinese reacted to what they perceived as racial discrimination by rejecting customs and mores - religious or racial - from the dominant race. That's not something we condone, though in a sense such reaction is much, much, milder than Hindraf telling the whole world that our government is pactising "ethnic cleansing." There were even allegations that Hindraf had connections with the Tamil Tiger terrorists, though I haven't seen any proof of that. Despite such rumors - mostly baseless, I think - I'd supported the demonstrations because that's about the only way the marginalization of Indians could be brought out into the open. Whatever the case, here are two different reactions to racial discrimination: one by rejecting the norms and culture of the dominant group, and the other by organizing and encouraging demonstrations all over the world against that group, to the extent that charges of ethnic cleansing and religious extremism were thrown against the said group. Both the Chinese and Indians should understand that perhaps, just perhaps, they can get what they want not merely through passive rejection (in the case of the Chinese) or through active demonstrations (in the case of the Indians), but also through reaching out, showing goodwill, to the other side. For the older generation Chinese, this would include acceptance of certain Malay cultural elements as national culture. For Indians, it would involve self-restraint in throwing mud against the Malay authorities with accusations of ethnic cleansing and religious extremism.

LChuah
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written by Sagaladoola, March 18, 2008 09:20:01
Sagadoola, I think u need to brush up your english language. Who is talking about acceptable or not acceptable. I said it should not be enforced and should be up to individuals decision as it still goes back to culture and tradition. And for your information, did the west enforce the t-shirt on asians, ur remark on this does not make any sense. What has using a t-shirt by own choice have to do with being forced to do something. Suggest you read and understand peoples comments, as Milo said, you are just spinning and beating around the bush and getting emotional. You are just arguing for the sake or arguing and without any substance.


Aikk .. my dear fairnessforall. Perhaps, it is you who should brush up on your English language and logical skill. Maybe you are right.

The Istana is a place of ceremony. The Sultan should not enforce a rule for people to wear a songkok in an Palace Official Function because although it is a Malay cultural but not bound by religious headgear it is insensitive for a Chinese to wear it.

I think next time the Western Ballroom Functions in Five Star Hotels should not enforce a rule that people must wear Ballroom Evening Gowns and Western shirts because although it is a Western cultural gown and shirts, we are not sure whether it is insensitive for certain races like Malays or Chinese to wear it.

Yes, the decision on both aspects still go back to culture and tradition like you said, fairnessforall. Now, does that make sense? Suggest you read others comments as well.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 18, 2008 09:55:48
No Double Standards for me

Milo : The wisest thing to do is not criticize and threaten those who held such sensitivity, but to influence them by understanding them and through proper education.

We should all know that leaders are subject to criticism. Yes, there are sensitivities but shouldn't a leader do a research before coming to a conclusion for a false sense of sensitivity?

There is one phrase called "Leadership by Example". If the Leader embraces the false sense of sensitivity, they will indirectly influence more people to follow the wrong thing. Then, the citizens who follow them will practise the same set of wrong actions. With that sentiment, it may be a threat to unity.

If the Leader ( I don't care whether he is from BN or BR or BA, I really don't care ) did the wrong thing and after we influenced and educated them on the right thing to do, don't you think they should either apologise or promise not to make the same mistakes again?

Malaysia has this problem with all sorts of leaders especially those with the problems of realising the mistake . There are those who wield keris with very nasty racial remarks and there is yet to be an apology or promise not to do it again. I heard there are those who wanted him to do it again ! That is very wrong. I shall continue to criticise and will not stop with this case.

Worse still, there is one person, despite being threatened agreed with the person who wield the keris. I heard from somewhere he even shamelessly hugged the keris wielder. That one, cannot be forgiven as well. I shall continue to criticise and will not stop either.

If there are those who do the same thing with songkok and no apology or not-to-do-it-again promise, I shall continue to criticise and will not stop with that either.

There will be no Double Standards. I do not consider myself free of criticism as well.

Malaysians have this kiasu attitude. Now it is no longer limited to Singaporeans. There is something taboo about apologies or "promises not to do something wrong" again. I am not sure, perhaps it is worse than dying of asphyxiation. For me, I believe in the English proverb "To err is human, To forgive divine". However, I do believe I will only forgive anyone that is worthy.

Now, is there a promise or an apology? If not, the criticism shall continue.

Anyway, I sincerely think LChuah's writing is quite fair for all. We need more of such Malaysian.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Milo, March 18, 2008 11:14:49
written by Sagaladoola: Yes, there are sensitivities but shouldn't a leader do a research before coming to a conclusion for a false sense of sensitivity?
____________________________________________

My friend, research will give you the facts, but the result of your evaluation of the facts will depends on the types of lens you have. Even as you browse through these comments I am quite sure you would have noticed almost all the writers (including you, me and RPK) have sensitivities to a certain degree, and our sensitivity might have been considered frivolous by others. If not why are we making a fuss over a songkok?

True understanding starts with embracing this principle, and understanding that this is the source of bias we all have.

By claiming others have a "false sense of sensitivity" itself is merely a view of the world seen through your lens, and that judgement could be considered by some to be your very own false sense of sensitive reaction to another's sensitivity.

When we judge someone (like Teng), we are only basing it on what we heard from the medias. These info are seldom complete and often spinned. Shouldn't that make us more careful when commending (if we wish to be fair)?

Malaysians have this kiasu attitude. Now it is no longer limited to Singaporeans.
_____________________________________

True, it is a common traits for many people, especially here. Otherwise, we would not have spent so much time responding to each other's disagreement to our views.


However, I do believe I will only forgive anyone that is worthy.
_______________________________________________________ ________

Sir, forgiving others should be unconditional, otherwise it is insincere. And worthiness is in the eyes of the beholder.

Anyway, I sincerely think LChuah's writing is quite fair for all. We need more of such Malaysian.
____________________________________

I am glad you realise. He is one of the best here. His thoughts and reasoning are expressed clearly, precisely,fairly and non-offensively. I enjoyed his writing much.

Regards
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written by Rhan, March 18, 2008 11:18:11
Malaysia is situated in the Malay Achipelago Region.


Sagaladoola,
Read some of the comment like i quoted above, if this fren of yours says as Malaysia is situated in Asia and all Asian should learn to embrace each other culture, i believe most Chinese would be more willing to accommodate to some deemed sensitive issue. If people like you and cruz keep on criticize us without any convincing fact by saying this is Malaysia and therefore you must this and that, how could you expect any positive result?

Leader is also human, i don't see they are differnce from me and you. You may criticize Teng but To me, he is doing the right thing.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 18, 2008 12:06:33
Dear Rhan,

The one who gave the name "Malay Archipelago Region" are the European Historians based on proper research. The Sea surrounding the Malay Archipelago Region is the South China Sea. Both the sea and archipelago are in Asia. Vietnam, Laos used to be called "Indo-China".

Malaysian chinese and malays are Malaysians. Nothing wrong with that.

Leader is also human, i don't see they are difference from me and you. You may criticize Teng but To me, he is doing the right thing.


Har, see. Oh ok. He is doing the right thing if he refuse to wear songkok to official palace functions although it is a Malay cultural headgear but not bound by religion.

Fine by me, if you think it is the right thing. That shows the great Malaysian Muhibbah spirit you have.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 18, 2008 12:12:19
Milo : My friend, research will give you the facts, but the result of your evaluation of the facts will depends on the types of lens you have. Even as you browse through these comments I am quite sure you would have noticed almost all the writers (including you, me and RPK) have sensitivities to a certain degree, and our sensitivity might have been considered frivolous by others. If not why are we making a fuss over a songkok?

True understanding starts with embracing this principle, and understanding that this is the source of bias we all have.

By claiming others have a "false sense of sensitivity" itself is merely a view of the world seen through your lens, and that judgement could be considered by some to be your very own false sense of sensitive reaction to another's sensitivity. When we judge someone (like Teng), we are only basing it on what we heard from the medias. These info are seldom complete and often spinned. Shouldn't that make us more careful when commending (if we wish to be fair)?


Well, it was said the sensitivity has been associated to songkok as a religious item.

Since it has been clarified that it is not bound by religion and is actually a cultural headgear, should the leader still execute the boycott?

I just want this answer.

Sagaladoola : However, I do believe I will only forgive anyone that is worthy.

Milo : Sir, forgiving others should be unconditional, otherwise it is insincere. And worthiness is in the eyes of the beholder.


Worthy = Like I said earlier, if there is an apology or promise not to repeat.
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written by cheekhiaw, March 18, 2008 13:04:36
Much ado about what covers the head when what is needed for the country is what enlightens that which is within it.

Throughout history, all cultures (political and religious) in power deemed themselves honoured when their subjects are made to wear their costumes.

What got to be on the head was apparently especially important to those 'powerful' people of the dark ages whether they were from Europe, Middle East or Asia.

As an example, to the arrogant Manchu rulers of China a century or so ago, wearing their hairstyle was the epitome of overlordship (they had their own NEP system too) and was to be compromised only at the price of the head.

The Qing, of course, gained more lasting infamy than respect from that antic of theirs.

History seems to show that it is the arrogant vile that feel most honoured if others ape after them, and most exalted by their one-size fits all version of 'only my way or nothing'.

The US of George Bush Jr. is just the latest ‘global’ version of such arrogance.

Today we see first hand how our own version of such a 'My Way' attitude by an M character had on the Malaysian Dilemma he created.

Forcing others to wear his stupid notions in their head is far worse than that of forcing outfits on others, but they all have small beginnings.

It may start with a book, a hat, or a megalomaniac's dream.

xxx
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written by mimag2005, March 18, 2008 14:14:08

written by Rhan, March 18, 2008 | 11:18:11

Malaysia is situated in the Malay Achipelago Region.

Sagaladoola,
Read some of the comment like i quoted above, if this fren of yours says as Malaysia is situated in Asia and all Asian should learn to embrace each other culture, i believe most Chinese would be more willing to accommodate
..............................................

Dear Rhan,

I posted the above..

Why stop at Asia.......?

Why not go further....like..... we are “ Solarian “ because we are situated in the Solar System or we are “ Milky Warian “ becus we are situated in the Milky Way or we are “ Speckian “ because EARTH IS JUST A SPECK IN THE UNIVERSE.

I guess with such “ warp “ mindsets we are more than willing to accommodate and embrace E.T’s RACE/CULTURE/TRadITIONS ETC ( Encounter of something – steven spielberg movie ).

...All becus of a Songkok...Wah Lau..!! ...aiyoyo apah !!...tak paham paham...!!!


............................
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written by kzso, March 18, 2008 14:15:02
as long the symbols (songkok, keris, baju melayu, sampin, kompang etc) reflecting malays or islam, the dap will not use it. let the sultan or king asked or instruct them, they'll never do or wear or use them. period. smilies/wink.gif
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written by JackWang, March 18, 2008 14:27:37
On the songkok, I am not quite sure if it is part of Malay culture or an islamic symbol. Some clarification would be good. If it is part of the Malay culture, why should there even be a debate on wearing it? If it is a religious symbol, then good neighbourliness would suggest that one does not insist on another who is of a different religion to dorn one's religious symbol.
DAP would be wrong to reject all things Malays. After all, some of the non-malay students do wear baju kurung uniform to school. And I remember that prior to the 1969 election, Tan Sri Khir Johari was photographed wearing a chinese costume and he reportedly got whacked at the ballot box. We need to get away from such narrow thinking views.

Cheers.
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written by Rhan, March 18, 2008 14:30:26
aiya, mimag2005, that should be my question to you mah, why stop at Malay Achipelago Region? The origin of the three major race in Malaysia is from Asia right? Talk ET pula.

Sagaladoola, your pass comment is very rational, i can't believe the songkok issue could turn you into a dualist.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 18, 2008 16:00:13
You a Dualist, or Me?
written by Rhan, March 18, 2008 | 14:30:26

aiya, mimag2005, that should be my question to you mah, why stop at Malay Achipelago Region? The origin of the three major race in Malaysia is from Asia right? Talk ET pula.


Yes, there main races originate from Asia. What are you trying to say man.. Gosh..

Dear Rhan, My past comments are very rational. So does these comments too. I used to criticise a lot on racism on the part of Malays but lesser on the chinese side. I used to criticise a lot on UMNO and the BN gang.

The difference this time around is, I am criticising the non-BN gang and more on the chinese side.

Sagaladoola, your pass comment is very rational, i can't believe the songkok issue could turn you into a dualist.


It seems weird that some people consider me as some UMNO cybertroopers when I criticised Barisan Rakyat. They seem to forget all the hard work in the past years that I placed in writing for the union of DAP-PKR-PAS. They seem to forget the work in my site, the pictures to candlelight vigils of Nat Tan, appointment of Alfred Ho into DAP etc. etc.

They seem to forget I write so that the Malays would tolerate the Chinese and the Chinese tolerate the Malays in the past. Or rather, maybe you seem to forget about all that.

I told you I criticise both sides. I don't care if you call me a dualist. For sure, I will not be a hypocrite in this case.

I want to see Barisan Rakyat becomes solid again so that the nation can have a two-party system. In order to achieve this objective, all these crap perception that is not good in DAP-PKR-PAS must be cleaned up and removed !

Some people complained that the BN-controlled media is digging up old news. Yes, probably they are but look how many of you are still holding to this perception.

You can deny this all you want but you do not see how it looks on DAP and how the common Malays would view this. What if DAP-PKR-PAS were to repeat something like this again in the future? You are risking the Malay votes who supported Barisan Rakyat in 2008 by allowing such perception to take hold !!!

And you call me a dualist? You, or me?

I am criticising so that Barisan Rakyat can move forward. I'd rather speak now rather than seeing them tumble and crumble in the mainstream media.

Sultan is seen as the Head-of-State and the symbol of the existence of the Malay culture. Of course, the rules he laid out would be in the mind of preserving all that. That is his job.

He created Deputy Menteri Besar positions for non-Malays although originally those did not exist ! Doing something out of norm. And now, wearing a Malay cultural but not religious headgear is so demeaning as if the chinese liberty is being placed at stake? Come on ?

How about the Deputy MB jobs? The Sultan did not complain the Malay liberty is at stake. He is only asking for a songkok. Now, compare songkok in a palatial function versus deputy MB. Where is the compromise?

Yes, you said this is a secular democracy. But this is a Constitutional Monarchy as well. Now, ok if you want to encourage our leaders to do all the boycott, go on. If you think it is right and fine to do that, go on.

I am criticising for Barisan Rakyat to improve. PAS had made a lot of improvements after a lot of criticism here. DAP must improve themselves too. Period.

Say and do whatever you want. I am fed up. Yes, Malays are racists. So does a big number of Chinese.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com[/b]
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written by Bluechip, March 18, 2008 16:30:28
The late Tan Sri Lim Goh Tong wearing " SONGKOK " when he received " Tan Sri " title . smilies/grin.gif
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written by bumi non malay, March 18, 2008 17:52:47
milo - thumbs up

sagaladoola, mimag2005,- last finger thumbs down


Volutary = Freedom. If you subscribe to Freedom of Religion, Freedom from Racism and Freedom of Press and the People's Declaration then the songkok is an Option. That means Sultan and those Ka Poh Chee Keepers of Protocol should Chill Out and respect Human Freedom of choice!!

Protocol can be broken or changed.....there is no principle in protocol. I for one thinks the Sultan is Proud if he insist on songkok. Does he sees non-malays wearing songkok everyday?? Is it a daily attire of non-malays?? Is the Sultan not aware of the diversity now. We are not 1800's where population is almost 95% malays and songkok is part of the attire. I for one thinks its looks silly, does not provide any protection or cover. Songkok serve little purpose to the overall appearance except for a properly attired malay with sarung, keris etc....for weeding. Apart from that it does look silly on Richard Branson who will do almost anything for Publicity.

Time to Petition the Sultan and Agong to make wearing Songkok and Malay attire for receiving title, ceremony.....OPTIONAL!!....the People have spoken.

Optional = Voluntary = Freedom of Choice!! ...Give me Freedom over Protocol ANYTIME....and if that means foregoing a Tan Sri, Datuk, MB, Prime Minister.....so be it. There is Dignity in Life Too!!

Why is it its always the people who are Proud if they don't wear something for a ceremony?? A Sultan/Agong too can be proud with their new found power given by the people. Abuse it and Sultan/Agong too can lose thier stately role!! From this songkok case we will KNOW whether the Sultan is inclusive or exclusive of the People Choice...!!!

...Magna Carta!!! smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by mimag2005, March 18, 2008 20:48:58

Gentlemen, Learned Men, Cultered Men,

The Topic in discussion is about wearing a songkok to meet ISTANA PROTOCOL !!! when attending an Official/Ceremonial Function.

The following words are closely associated with Protocol :

decorum, finesse, formality....

Gentlemen, Learned Men, Cultered Men,

Would you agree the above discipline is also appropriate and applicable to places like PASAR PUDU, Chow Kit Lorongs, PUDU Bus Terminal, Petaling Street....etc etc.

IT’S A FACT..... MONKEYS LAY EGGS.....!!!!!


....................
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written by mimag2005, March 18, 2008 20:51:08


" MEA CULPA....MEA CULPA.........MEA CULPA.........!!!!


............
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written by mimag2005, March 18, 2008 21:56:09

.................IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!..........

Just heard over the radio.....

An adhoc medical committee was formed immediately after the elections to gauge the biological reaction of MALAYSIAN CITIZENS.

At 2030 hours tonight MSM received a copy of the report showing a sudden upsurge of Mental disorders spreading through out the country like wildfire. It has become pandemic !!!

Newly elected State Governments are joining hands to offer FREE PSYCHIATRY Courses for the first 1000 students.

I have just informed my son to register his unborn son for this course.

Fellas,

I guess you know what to do....

Sagaladoola/Cruzeiro.....Please sound the ALARM !!! – Thank you.


...............
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 01:03:41
PETITION, GO ON

bumi non malay thumbs up

Abuse it and Sultan/Agong too can lose thier stately role!! From this songkok case we will KNOW whether the Sultan is inclusive or exclusive of the People Choice...!!!


Oh, you mean you want to launch a revolution because of a songkok.

Good, I suggest you launch the petition. Make sure you tell The Star, NST, Utusan. I am sure they will put the petition in the front page. It will be a very good publicity especially if you do it for DAP.

Malays represent 60% of the population. I am sure they will not see the stately power of their Sultan lost. That is their heritage. 60% is a people's heritage, possibly in the majority too. But who knows, they may be happy to help you do that all that promotion.

Bumi non malay, do you want me to help you promote your cause? Like you create a blog on it and then I write letters to Malaysiakini etc. for you? Oh yeah bumi non malay, I forgot... about Malaysia Today. Tell Raja Petra to help you to do that too. Oh yeah, he is part of the Sultan descendant too.

Anyway, if you gotta do it, you better do it before the Deputy Menteri Besar position which does not exist originally but created by the Sultan's in respect of the people be revoked. The people who got the position seems to be the non-malays.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 01:11:26
Protocol can be broken or changed.....there is no principle in protocol. I for one thinks the Sultan is Proud if he insist on songkok. Does he sees non-malays wearing songkok everyday?? Is it a daily attire of non-malays?? Is the Sultan not aware of the diversity now. We are not 1800's where population is almost 95% malays and songkok is part of the attire. I for one thinks its looks silly, does not provide any protection or cover. Songkok serve little purpose to the overall appearance except for a properly attired malay with sarung, keris etc....

If that logic you use is taken into account, then the cheongsam looks silly too. The cheongsam is not worn everyday too. Today is not the 1800s where everybody wear cheongsam. So, what? Throw and destroy cheongsam, treat it as devil and not part of the chinese heritage? I do not agree though, the cheongsam is a beautiful dress, part of chinese and should be retained.

The protocol allows the full clothed of songkok with the rest of the Baju Melayu etc. etc. You can wear it if you want to. I am sure the Sultan is aware of the diversity and Tan Sri Lim Goh Tong, a chinese, who wore a songkok when he received a title understand the diversity as well. Tan Sri Lim Goh Tong is not a racist.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 01:14:59
Oh yeah, there is definitely principles in protocol. Now, tell me why there isn't?

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Milo, March 19, 2008 01:21:48
Sagaladoola, what you need is not a debate, but a mirror.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 02:14:06
State your point, Milo.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 02:22:53
Milo, oh yeah, please don't tell me about the screwed up voting system. Whenever I pressed certain people's votes it becomes negative 18.

Regards.......
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 02:24:07
Milo, oh yeah, please don't tell me about the screwed up voting system. Whenever I pressed certain people's votes it becomes negative 18. Something like undi hantu.

Regards.......
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written by bumi non malay, March 19, 2008 07:59:38
Milo – ha ha ha ha ha…..I think he is running out of mirrors.smilies/grin.gif

Sagalagola = the defender of Malay songkok.

You and your ILKS seems to have a problem comprehending Voluntary, Optional, Freedoom!! Out of your wisdom, because we disagree with this protocol, we who choose not to wear it are labeled traitor, small minds, insult to malay custom, and thus Sultan. The Sultan and his ILKS feels SMUG that he can removed the Deputy MB post due to his small mind songkok protocol.

Well that is certainly not the attitude to create a better Malaysia.

Besides I have seen Foreign Dignitaries receiving award from Sultan and Agong without wearing songkok. Millions have been to the Agong swearing in without wearing songkok. How is it that its applicable to some and not to others.??

Oh I see we are non-malay Malaysia and we have to “kow tow” to this NON Principle Sultan/Agong Protocol!!Prejudice Protocol if you ask me!!…I rest my case!!

We will choose NOT to wear songkok ...Thank You!!…and you can keep your title, deputy MB, ceremonial swearing duties!!…We choose Freedom & self impose exile from songkok and thus potential Tan Sri, Tun, Datuk, PM, MB…etc! A big sacrifice for maintaining Dignity in Freedom! Better to die with dignity than none!!smilies/grin.gif

Here we go, bring out your supreme stats. Yes we know malay = 60%…..but less than 50% when minus orang asli, sabahans & sarawakians. Yes Majority malays have the army, guns, rockets…..so we the minority race will just sit and be obliterated ala genocide over songkok. OK you win !! Hope you are wiser now!!

DON’T USE PROTOCOL TO DISPLAY YOUR PREJUDICE!!

.....that goes to Raja Petrta and all his Royalty-Sultan buddies!!

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written by Labu, March 19, 2008 08:45:19
PLEASE MEET OUR NEW DAP POSTERBOY AT

http://izzah.tripod.com/88pp.htm

ALL RACIST CHINAMAN MUST SEE HIM.

LABU
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 08:57:09
Bumi non malay, king of anti-songkok, you said you would petition for it, i am still waiting for your petition and the press conference.

Besides I have seen Foreign Dignitaries receiving award from Sultan and Agong without wearing songkok.


Need not for swearing in....
http://tengchangkhim.blogspot....ngkok.html

Excerpt from the link:
It is not a requirement to wear songkok in the Chamber of the State Assembly for swearing-in ceremony, annual openning ceremony or meeting. It is only a requirement in the palace when seeking audience or attending function, except the state dinner or black tie dinner. This requirement has been made compulsory by HRH Sultan sometime in 2002.
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written by fairnessforall, March 19, 2008 16:35:17
Sagaladoola, I do not wish to waste time arguing with you as you do not seem to understand what democracy in a multiracial country means. I have no problem with the songkok but at the same time, just as the songkok, all other traditional constumes should be acceptable for official functions. Its not the Sultan himself who comes up with these protocol. Obviously the person in charge did not bother to take into consideration of us being a multi racial country thus he was only concerned about the malays, without giving a care to respect the customs and traditions which include costumes of the non malays. Clearly these protocol rules indirectly state that the traditional costumes of chinese and indians or any other race is not acceptable for official functions, and thats the point Im trying to make. Not only palace protocol, there are also many government departments that come up with rules that ladies can only wear baju kurung and kebaya, and saree, cheongsam, salwaar kameez is not allowed. Some of my indian friends have been directly told that they have to wear baju kurung or kebaya and they cant wear their own traditional costume. This is very blatant practice of racism.

In any case, I will let the votes speak for itself as to what most malaysians feel.
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written by mimag2005, March 19, 2008 17:34:28

Dear Sagaladoola,

I quote following posted at another thread which self explanatory :

written by mimag2005, March 19, 2008 | 17:24:10

written by Labu, March 19, 2008 | 02:32:08
THIS PETRA GUY IS OF ROYAL DESCEND

Thats why he is extra piss off to see some chinaman dare to 'besar kepala' in front of the Sultan. As i have always said malays are feudalistic at heart, its embedded in our genes for so many generations.
_______________________________________________________ ____________________

Dear Labu,

I beg to differ.

The Chinese and Indian Race belong to Ancient Civilization.

They have well structured Establishments, Customs, Traditions, Protocols, Ceremonials etc etc.

What being posted in this and other thre*** are SMALL GROUPS whose ancestors belonging to the “Outcast”, “ Uncouth” and the “Rebels”.... who have no respect for their EMPERORS or such Establishments.

(On the whole the Chinese and Indian peoples are very nice, respectful and love to live HARMONIOUSLY)

These SMALL GROUPS don’t know how to handle freedom, equality, mutual respect etc etc....Its not in their genes....

These SMALL GROUPS will only RESPECT an “ IRON FIST “ GOVERNMENT.

e.g. Did we hear of any “ Tian Ann Mann Square Demo during Mao Tze Tung’s Rule “ ???


Im going for my teh tarek, wanna join..?


...............
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 17:37:23
Sagaladoola, I do not wish to waste time arguing with you as you do not seem to understand what democracy in a multiracial country means.

I believe you do not understand what is Constitutional Monarchy as well. Indeed you are wasting time to argue with me although you said you do not wish to.

I have no problem with the songkok but at the same time, just as the songkok, all other traditional constumes should be acceptable for official functions.

It is good if you have no problem with the songkok. If that is what you think the problem is solved.

Other suggestions of traditional costumes is good but should be endorsed by the Sultan first. I didn't say I do not agree.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 17:41:34
fairnessforall : Its not the Sultan himself who comes up with these protocol.

It matters who is endorsing the protocol and I believe the person is the Sultan.

of my indian friends have been directly told that they have to wear baju kurung or kebaya and they cant wear their own traditional costume. This is very blatant practice of racism.

I believe in Western Wedding Ball Functions only Western Evening Gowns can be worn. Are the westerners practising racism?

Anyway, I do agree that it can be suggested to the palace to include more traditional costumes for other races.

In any case, I will let the votes speak for itself as to what most malaysians feel.

Not most, but certain Malaysians .. feel ... More specific, Malaysia Today readers. The votes normally fall less than 100 votes, and there is one vote per person. Malaysia consists of millions and millions of people.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by Rhan, March 19, 2008 18:19:59
I know there is one Cultural REVOLUTION during Mao Tze Ting era, but not easily elaborate to one shallow mind.
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written by fairnessforall, March 19, 2008 18:49:30
Sagaladoola, yes one vote per person, bt most of your comments received zero votes, so it speaks alot. I wont waste time with your other comments.

Oh yes, I have seen people wearing modern sarees and modern cheongsam in western wedding ball functions and no where it says only western evening gown is allowed, as long as its an evening gown even if its indian or chinese evening gown is allowed. Maybe you should watch more fashion and celebrity function shows including Ball functions.
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written by mimag2005, March 19, 2008 19:26:21

written by Rhan, March 19, 2008 | 18:19:59

01) I know there is one Cultural REVOLUTION during Mao Tze Ting era...


Chairman Mao was the LEadING FIGURE AGAINST the IMPERIALISTS..!!!

02)..... but not easily elaborate to one shallow mind.

.........can’t be more accurate than a Robin Hood’s arrow.............!!!



Aneh.. lagi satu teh tarek dan " yong tau fu " campur.... Nandri!


.................
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written by Rhan, March 19, 2008 21:03:23
It has been quite a number of years I don’t take teh tarik at mamak store. No matter how many times I told the mamak kurang manis or kurang kurang manis, my request fall on deaf ear and what I get is a glass of air gula. It seem this Mamak don’t care what I want. He cares only himself.

I now prefer to take tea at kopitiam with a plate of nasi lemak, I appreciate the taste of nasi lemak more than yong tau fu even I know it is not that healthy. But I am now being told that I must have that air gula otherwise I am not a good Malaysian.

How come mamak don’t sell yong tau fu huh? Memang aneh!
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written by mimag2005, March 19, 2008 21:38:23

.....It seem this Mamak don’t care what I want. HE CARES ONLY HIMSELF....
_______________________________________________________ ______________________


....I bet 11 out of 10 must be descendant of one of the ancestor I posted earlier..

Well.....long.....long....... road ahead....!!!!


Aneh...Mamak Yong Tau Fu..?.... Not to me. If interested give a buzz.


Ah Soh ah...Tolong tah pau cherh pau Heahh Chok.. Wah a Huang Kia penyu Pua peah... Kam siah ..!


“ Non-Chinese Malaysian “

................
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written by Sagaladoola, March 19, 2008 23:48:07
Sagaladoola, yes one vote per person, bt most of your comments received zero votes, so it speaks alot. I wont waste time with your other comments.

Ohh, well you said that earlier you won't answer to my comments but here you are answering again. Still, the argument posted above does not prove that the voting system signify Malaysia as a whole. How much did you get 7 out of a million, rounded to a million it is still 0.

Oh yes, I have seen people wearing modern sarees and modern cheongsam in western wedding ball functions and no where it says only western evening gown is allowed, as long as its an evening gown even if its indian or chinese evening gown is allowed. Maybe you should watch more fashion and celebrity function shows including Ball functions.

Yes, that is if the owner allows. I did not say I disagree that other traditional costumes should not be suggested to the palace. Currently, the practice is songkok must be worn to certain functions. Not wearing it because it is Malay symbolises racism.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by mimag2005, March 20, 2008 06:25:31

Hey Fellas,

I was informed by my Indonesian friend that the DAYAKS WHO LIVED IN THE HEART OF THE JUNGLES OF KALIMANTAN, where the MALES USE LOIN CLOTH, the FEMALES TOPLESS, also HAVE their own form of PROTOCOL CONCERNING CEREMONIAL FUNCTIONS OR WHEN HAVING AUDIENCE WITH THEIR CHIEFS.

These protocol also apply to visitors. Usually the guides or contacts will inform the visitors of the protocol requirements and adherence.

ANY DEVIATION WILL BE TREATED AS AN INSULT TO THE CHIEFS...!!!

I don’t know whether my Bapak friend is pulling my legs or not....BUT if it is true..

It is indeed shocking to learn that these “ uncivilised and uneducated people “ (sick) from our “civilised” (sick) point of view are “ sophisticated and civilised “ afterall.....!!!!


It’s a wonder to find civility and sophistication in the heart of the jungle...!!!


................
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written by fairnessforall, March 20, 2008 12:28:54
Sagaladoola said:
Yes, that is if the owner allows. I did not say I disagree that other traditional costumes should not be suggested to the palace. Currently, the practice is songkok must be worn to certain functions. Not wearing it because it is Malay symbolises racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes and having rules that states any other traditional costumes beside the malay traditional costume is not allowed for official functions also symbolises racism. And this ruling has been set by many goverment functions and if its correct from what everyone is saying also palace protocol. If the government want the people not to practice racism, they should start the ball rolling and set a good example by accepting all traditional costumes for official functions.

I rest my case.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 21, 2008 01:05:35
Yes and having rules that states any other traditional costumes beside the malay traditional costume is not allowed for official functions also symbolises racism. And this ruling has been set by many goverment functions and if its correct from what everyone is saying also palace protocol. If the government want the people not to practice racism, they should start the ball rolling and set a good example by accepting all traditional costumes for official functions.


Actually, government (administration) functions is different than palace functions.

For example, there is no rule and protocol that says politicians need to wear Songkok to Parliament.

Please differentiate correctly. Otherwise your points do not stand.

Well, anyway going by your logic. If not allowing traditional costumes other than Malay songkok in a Malay palace function is racist, then I would like you to answer these two simple questions to prove your logic :

1) "Is the rule of not allowing traditional dresses other than the Western Evening Gown in a Western Ballroom Function racist too?".

2) "Is the rule of not allowing western jeans in Official Palace Functions of the UK Queen Elizabeth racist too?"

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by donplay, March 21, 2008 01:46:22
Dear RPK

SONGKOK – I TOO OBJECT!

I, a M'sian Indian/Hindu, is like you, married to a M'sian Chinese Buddhist lady (17 years). Note that I identify myself as M'sian first, then ancestry and lastly, religion which has nothing to do with our birth. I refuse to use ‘Race’ when we really mean ‘People.’ No child is born circumcised or wearing a cross, a yellow Buddhist sacred thread on its wrist, a lingam pendant round its neck or yarmulk or songkok, on its head!

Therefore, due to my mixed-marriage, I am always conscious of the 'cultural and religious divide' and transgressing it consciously.

I hate wearing the western suite, especially the tie, given that in our tropical climate, it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever to put on a garb that has you breaking out in perspiration the moment you don it! I only do so where the dress code requires it, and then too, when I choose to attend the corresponding function.

So, we have a choice, either comply or use your right of dissent and abstain from attending.

But in M'sia, nothing is that simple. Like the Chinaman you condemn with such utter contempt, I too object to the mandatory requirement to wear the Songkok at Honours Investiture Ceremonies or for march-past at various Games avenues etc.

The problem is that in M'sia, Malay, by constitution means Muslim/Islam, and the Songkok has overt religious connotations. At least, that's the way I (and most non-Malays, I would guess)see it. So, I cannot agree with the requirement for its mandatory wearing at non-religious functions and events. The western suit, by comparison, is not a Christian symbol. With dress codes at 'The Dog', Lake Club and leading 5-Star Hotels, we have a choice - comply or take our business elsewhere where they are not so pompous.

To resolve this M'sian issue, I suggest that we have a National Referendum (including on other issues such as abolishing the ISA, Printing & Presses Act, the arbitary Rural Banishment order and unlimited police remand detention et al with voting on individual resolutions and not an omnibus resolution) and agree on a M'sian National Dress Code for such events as the award of Datoships at Royal Courts.

My vote will be for the Batik jacket and smart official wear (dark long pants, socks and dark leather shoes). The Batik jacket is uniquely M'sian, truly Asian, and smart-casual or smart-official, as you like it. No crash helmets! Much more manlier than the effiminate Phillippine see-through Barong Tagalog. For ladies, the Baju Kurung/Sarong Kebaya would be good.

Let's once and for all consign to the dust-bin the western suit and tie.

donplaypuks
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written by Sagaladoola, March 21, 2008 14:00:25
The problem is that in M'sia, Malay, by constitution means Muslim/Islam, and the Songkok has overt religious connotations


Well donplay .... Another version of Songkok called Udeng is worn by Hindus in Bali. So, therefore your worries should not be valid.

In Arab, songkok is not allowed during the Haji in the mosque.

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by cheekhiaw, March 21, 2008 15:52:23
One can put whatever one likes on one's own head based on whatever reasons one can find or dredge up.

One should however not think that one had it all sorted out and thereforth to insist that all others should ape after him.

It is perhaps better that one knows where to cap it all off.


And do you think that unto such as you;
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew:
God gave the secret—and denied it me?
Well, well, what matters it? Believe that, too.
- Rubaiyat, Omar Khayyam

xxx
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written by mimag2005, March 21, 2008 16:19:51

Hey Fellas,

Still at it eh...?

Whats the beef all about....?

Is it about asking Non-Muslims to don a songkok everyday, anyday, every place, any place....??

Or is it to comply ISTANA PROTOCOL when attending OFFICIAL/CEREMONIAL FUNCTIONS...????

Dear Educated Unbiased Lot,

Surely we all know the differences between these 2 groups i.e.

Everyday, anyday, every place, any place......and.....

Istana Protocol, Official/Ceremonial Functions.....!!!!


Thank God, my parents “ hard earned “ money did not go to waste.


.....My Blunt Apologies......


....................
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written by mimag2005, March 21, 2008 16:39:26


.........Inherent prejudices goes beyond the bounds of geography...!!!!!


...................
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written by mimag2005, March 21, 2008 17:47:59

This songkok issue is not only about “ race , culture“ but also got to do with “ Islam “.

Dear Followers of Major Faiths....

Do you know that ISLAM and the OTHER MAJOR RELIGIONS have ONE COMMON THEME....

“ GOD IS ONE, FORMLESS “.

This is not an irresponsible statement.....!!!!

I am prepared to give you quotations from your own scriptures....!!!!


Very, very sad MAJORITY of FOLLOWERS including Muslims don’t know about their Scriptures AND ARE ACTUALLY .... BLIND FOLLOWERS....!!!


.........................
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written by Guastone, March 21, 2008 21:34:23
Barisan Alternative - Pakai Baseball Cap, Topi Koboi, Serban Dan Lain2. Hello guys!!! you fellas must run the state and get right to that business.
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written by Sagaladoola, March 24, 2008 17:24:51


DAP has proven they are not racists in this picture .... This is the new Selangor Exco line-up .

Now, that should be the way .... Congrats Congrats ....

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com
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written by gorshan, March 25, 2008 16:06:30
dear donplay,i agree with you for a referendum on this songkok issue.
ok, so,say they make it official garb after referendum.

so whats a sikh man supposed to do then?
wear the songkok over the turban or wear the turban over the songkok? smilies/grin.gif
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written by donplay, March 28, 2008 08:42:12
dear gorshan

there is no law that requires the wearing of songkok for ceremonial purposes, it is only a protocol being enforced by the HRHs and dictators in or those overseeing govt/semi-govt and sporting bodies.

so, anticipatig the problems we might face even with a referundum, i have suggested above that we make the batik jacket/sarong kebaya our national dress code. then the problem of songkok, turban etc will not arise. each wears whatever headgear they choose to or no at all.

donplaypuks

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